Hunter-gatherer society sounds fucking horrendous. Why do people praise it?

>Work less than modern people do, go hunting with your buddies, fuck bitches, eat meat.
Die of old age at 30

>le living longer is better meme
no

Basically this, although i would prefer to live in a small agricultural village in antiquity, it's for the same reason

*Die before your first birthday

Infant mortality is the prime cause of low age expectancy, you know this m8. The thing about dying of an infected scratch or something is a lot more accurate.

When have you ever gotten an infection from a scratch? How weak is your immune system?

How convenient that currently existing hunter gatherers don't just drop dead at that age.

>there will never be worldview that combines the ultra primitive with the ultra modern
>neo-primitivism will never happen and you will never track an enemy tribe with a live-map app, and club them to death with a big stick

why even live

Yeah but is that even an accurate perception? Weren't there hunter-gatherer societies that would abandon their old and infirm and let them die?

It really depends where you're living I think, certain parts of Africa are basically breadbaskets where you barely even have to work to get food, which is why Africa never even advanced.

In freezing cold Europe it'd be a nightmare, which is mostly why Europeans shifted to agriculture and farming.

Actually most of the time they would realize that they were too old to keep up and useless to the society so they'd exile themselves to die

>In freezing cold Europe it'd be a nightmare, which is mostly why Europeans shifted to agriculture and farming.
Nah. Hunter-gatherers moved North along the retreating continental ice and if I recall correctly, moved onto agriculture due to overhunting.

We evolved to live in an animistic tribal setting, of course it's going to compliment our minds well.

>2 hour work days
>animism replaces science, making you completely philosophically grounded(even though incorrect)
>almost guaranteed a waifu
>simple needs, simple responsibilities, simple solutions
>"wars" between tribes are often times nearly first blood before ending(when you grew up with everyone you're fighting alongside, watching one of them die is good incentive to stop fighting)
>everyone in your tribe treats you like family

It's a very low-stress environment for humans. It is neither inherently inferior or superior as for as a general social setting goes, but if the criteria is amount of anxiety a human being feels on average through their lifetime, animistic tribal society does a lot better than oligarchical globalized capitalist society. However, if the criteria is amount of anime girls produced on average, H-G soc falls to pieces and isn't worth my time.

Newsflash: we don't know shit about hunter gatherers. Stop circle jerkingnow thx

>if the criteria is amount of anime girls produced on average, H-G soc falls to pieces and isn't worth my time
Damn right.

If you have to worry about not shitting your guts out from tainted food and water, you stop worrying about existentialist bullshit.

>almost guaranteed a waifu
But I thought only about 50% of all men ever did breed and humans are polyamorous, with female harems centered around alpha males? Christian monogamy is what gave every man the chance to a wife and family, greatly increasing their motivation and willingness to commit into society.

>It really depends where you're living I think, certain parts of Africa are basically breadbaskets where you barely even have to work to get food, which is why Africa never even advanced.

I thought we ended this meme in one of those "Why didnt Africa..." threads

>2 hour work days

Nigger, you'd be working all the time, just to survive.

youtube.com/watch?v=nCKkHqlx9dE

No, explain it then?

>2 hour workdays

If their tribe functions well and survives with only 2 hour workdays then they're definitely not just hunting and gathering

Except no. Fishing with nets, trapping and hunting do not require constant work. More than anything, you'd work for the sake of it.

No, the other 50% of males simply died. "alfalfa mail" theory was disproven long ago by the same guy who came up with it

Well who came up with it? And if he is wrong why is his reproductive model so accurately and predictably played out on college and high school campuses? Not to mention on social media and such.

Most HG tribes practice monogamy too, after a fashion. There's a lot less riding on it though. Marriage in agricultural societies is often about more than just the two people being married, it brings two family groups together, unites assets. Not a whole lot of that in the HG setting, it's just two people in an intimate relationship for an extended period of time, there's nothing really to lose by calling it off except the relationship itself because you're both still a part of the tribe either way.

>Why do people praise it?

because of "muh noble savage" bullshit. Literally just the adam and eve fairy tale, but for secularist

That would be an enormous generalization as far as hunter-gatherer societies go. Beta uprisings are a lot more severe in a tribal setting, harem-like tribes are not built to last. You're much more likely to get open sexual relations, men who do not marry finding a wife in another tribe, butt boy castes, things of this nature. You need a little bit of technological/economical context to start protecting/maintaining your 3-5 wives, which usually requires some form of farming. Bantu peoples often have polygamy, but are not hunter-gatherers, and generally thin out the male population in small skirmishes. It's rare that you see this in actual hunter-gatherer society.

It is a widely accepted anthropological fact that the average hunter-gatherer works 2-3 hours a day, based on enormous amounts of data. All they gotta do is pick up some food off the ground, dude.

Hardly. The HG lifestyle requires only minimal work every day. You don't need a shit load of calories when you don't do a shit load of work. Farming takes a ton of effort, it's literally back-breaking work, so you need a corresponding high amount of caloric intake to offset that. Compared to HG you can just spend an hour fishing while your spouse forages some eggs and roots and have your meals for the day done inside 3 hours.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_(ethology)

Not him but the alpha-beta theory was never applied to human societal structure by anthropologists. I don't know of any studies that have proven it applies to humans

Farming itself isn't continuous though. It's seasonal labour, between which the farmer does not work all that much. Modern people work pretty much the most out of all to have lived.

THICC

Well first of all you're not wrong in saying that certain parts of Africa are breadbaskets, but you're completely wrong in saying that
>you barely had to work to get food there
>therefore these areas didnt develop

Ancient Egyptian civilization (which rose in Africa's most fertile breadbasket) wouldnt exist if either of these things were true.

Also, even if it was true that fertile land = no development and harsh land = civilization then why did expansive, well-developed African empires and civilizations rise in fertile areas like the Niger River and the Nile, as well as North Africa and not in places like the Sahara?

>the primitive lifestyle benefits the existence of humanity
>lets just let ourselves be at the mercy of the environment

That's a loaded question bro.

>even if it was true
It's not. Civilizations evolve specifically in fertile regions with functional, effective agriculture.

>Farming itself isn't continuous though. It's seasonal labour
I can tell you've never lived on a farm. Different crops grow in different seasons, while one field is fallow another needs to be tilled. Animals don't drop dead in the winter either, sheep, goats, pigs, cows etc need tending all year. That means they require food to get through winter, that means growing crops not only for yourself but also for your livestock. Then you add in the crops you need to sell for profit so you can afford to buy necessities (like new tools or to pay the miller to grind flour for you etc), and if you're in a feudal society then you've really got it rough because on top of managing your own farm shit you also have to work the Lord's land for him. Back breaking work.

Egypt is fertile in the sense that it can be used for agriculture, not in the sense that it is abundant in huntable animals and gatherable food.
Stop trying to make excuses for black people.

Thats what i said whitey

>weak immune system

funny you should mention that. want a blanked? :^)

blanket*, obviously

In a modern farm, yes. But early nomads would sow seeds, leave the area to follow the game herds, and return to harvest in a few months. Hands off.

>Different crops grow in different seasons
And there's a single growing season in Northern Europe and crop rotation is a recently modern invention, is it not?
>Animals don't drop dead in the winter either, sheep, goats, pigs, cows etc need tending all year.
Keeping them fed, or simply letting them go out on pasture is not back breaking work either.
>and if you're in a feudal society then you've really got it rough because on top of managing your own farm shit you also have to work the Lord's land for him.
Yes, obviously if you're a landless peasant, you're worse off than a land-owning farmer.

You till the fields, plant whatever, then harvest. Celebrate the end of the year greatly and hull down for the winter.

>"wars" between tribes are often times nearly first blood before ending(when you grew up with everyone you're fighting alongside, watching one of them die is good incentive to stop fighting)

Actually, percentally, HG conflicts are the deadliest conflicts in humanity.

For example, ww1 and ww2 killed off about 5-8% of the population.

HG conflicts observed in Papua New Guinea cause 20-40% casualty rates. Pretty horrifying come to think.

This. Do 2-3 hours of work everyday, spend rest of your time fucking, dancing and smoking weed.

You forget that many HG societies use a division of labor so that one person never has to do all that. You go out hunting and you catch a deer in two hours, your work is done. If you stay out all day and don't catch anything, you can ask your neighbors for some meat or bargain it off the local headman in exchange for loyalty points. But in most pre civs game is plentiful so you won't really have this problem.

Then point out to me the places in Africa that
>have abundant game and gatherable foods
>people dont have to work hard to survive
>people didnt need to use agriculture so they
>never developed
>never became civilized

You only have to build that once every few years though. And this guy doesn't spend all his time in the wilderness, he has a job to go back to, so the amount of time it takes him is not representative of the amount of time it would take an actual hunter-gatherer or primitive agriculturalist.

>You only have to build that once every few years though
Build it once and fix it every now and then when shit starts breaking. Nevermind the fact that the hut would be bigger and likely contain your entire family in it.

>it's a "city boy tells all the farm lads how farming is easy work" episode

>hut would be bigger
One man never builds a hut, the entire tribe builds a hut, i very much doubt that the whole tribe spends 8 hours a day, five days a week building huts

PNG tribes are not a good standard to make generalizations based off of hunter-gatherer culture. PNG is bizarre compared to the rest of the world as far as animistic society goes. Excessive amounts of extremely isolated linguistic groups crammed into a small space, not to mention a fixation on cannibalism.

Khosian "wars" will usually see 1-10 people die total, their society is a lot more standard as far as HG goes.

PNGs are awesome as fuck though. I'm bummed out that island isn't walled off as a people preserve, I'd just like to see it evolve into some kind of insane aztec shit over a couple thousand years.

>its a "lazy farmer thinks he knows what hard work is"
I don't see supervisors breathing down your neck all the live long day

>Then point out to me the places in Africa that...
Pretty much the entirety of sub-Saharan Africa barring the Namib, the African horn, and a few other places.
Agriculture was introduced to blacks by caucasians from the African horn, they never developed it themselves. They never had the need to, because unlike Egyptians, when they overhunted they could just move on to a new area.

Tell me, farmerboy, what makes farming difficult?

>my boss is being a meanie

holy fuck lad, thoughen up

I'm not going to have this discussion again, the last time, somebody claimed wellington boots make you magically float on mud, that tilling damp soil is basically no work at all and that besides sowing and reaping, there's no other farm work.
So, no...

>if you believe hard enough the memes will come true :^)

My point is that is farmers can behave however they like at "work"
If they want to have a laugh, listen to music, have a drink, sing and mess about then they can.
Work isn't work if you've got a cigarette in your hand, earphones in your ears and the sun on your skin.

liberal retard alert.

Wew lad

What, you mean stuff we've been using animals and machines to help us for millenia now? It's simple, seasonal physical labour. Other jobs include maintenance and keeping the animals alive by showing food into their face.
It's ok if you want to bloat your ego by praising the difficulty of farming, but it's really not hard.

>I can't come up with a refutation so I'll just meme instead :^)
>hehe now nobody can accuse me of being wrong :^)

youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE

>Work isn't work if you've got a cigarette in your hand, earphones in your ears and the sun on your skin.
This is why lonely physical labour is amazing. Nobody bothers you, you can work just about however the fuck you want, listening to music without a care in the world.

also, I'm not really a farmer, I just help out my parents and even they do it more as a hobby than acutal sustenance and I can tell you, I much rather sit in an AC'd office 8 hours a day and tap a keyboard than having to farm to actually sustain myself and make surplus to sell.

>Work isn't work if you've got a cigarette in your hand, earphones in your ears and the sun on your skin.
>he's never been a delivery guy/construction worker/professional hunter(:^))/the list could go on

>I would rather sit on my ass than do physical labour
>farming is hard guys

yes, I'd rather earn a lot more money per hour than a farmer and then enjoy an orthopedically approved ride on my fancy $5k bike than break my back for 5 hours only so that the retailer can fuck me up the ass for corn prices, but that's a bit outside the scope of my original memepost

Agriculture was developed in Africa and later on Bantu's with their Iron tools spread across central and Southern Africa. The areas they failed to penetrate were areas that already developed agriculture and key point had iron tools as well.

>Agriculture was introduced to blacks by caucasians from the African horn, they never developed it themselves.

Stop memeing whitey

>Between 9000 and 5000 BCE, Niger–Congo speakers domesticated the oil palm and raffia palm. Two seed plants, black-eyed peas and voandzeia (African groundnuts) were domesticated, followed by okra and kola nuts.
>In the steppes and savannah of the Sahara and Sahel, the Nilo-Saharan speakers started to collect and domesticate wild millet and sorghum between 8000 and 6000 BCE. Later, gourds, watermelons, castor beans, and cotton were also collected and domesticated. The people started capturing wild cattle and holding them in circular thorn hedges, resulting in domestication.[15]
>In the fifth millennium, as the ancestors of modern West Africans began entering the area, the development of sedentary farming began to take place in West Africa, with evidences of domesticated cattle having been found for this period, along with limited cereal crops.
n the western Sahel, the rise of settled communities was largely the result of domestication of millet and sorghum.
>Archaeology points to sizeable urban populations in West Africa beginning in the 2nd millennium BCE. Symbiotic trade relations developed before the trans-Saharan trade, in response to the opportunities afforded by north-south diversity in ecosystems across deserts, grasslands, and forests. The agriculturists received salt from the desert nomads. The desert nomads acquired meat and other foods from pastoralists and farmers of the grasslands and from fishermen on the Niger River. The forest dwellers provided furs and meat.[17]

>farming is hard work because US business practices, Monsanto kikery, corn subsidies and such make it an economical shithole
It's not the farming itself that's hard.

You forgot factory and corporate farms fucking you up. The government (in the USA for ts example) failing to support family farms and under invest in them while support Big Farm.

In poor countries you have to compete with subsidized food flooding your country lowering prices or even if you don't import food for cash crops if you grew cotton the richer subsidized nation lowering prices of cotton to below or barely surplus levels. You also have to worry about climate change and environmental disasters.

That stupid 2 hour work day shit has been debunked already. Why cant reports about HG societies ever be consistent?

Because I need to make a groundbreaking paper that justifies me spending $200000 in government grants masturbating in the jungle.

So pretty much HG societies were suicide cults

these are wrong. studies were done on modern hunter gatherers, when food preparation time was counted, the amount of work done daily was double earlier estimates. Most men died virgins. Meat was scarce.

Wasn't it a basic fact that most men hooked up with women because of their status as hunters?

its an indicator that life sucked ass, if you're stressed out 24/5, hungry half of the time, and working nonstop, then you'll die early.

If hunter gather lifestyle is so much better why don't you fuckers go do it?

they need us to join with them or else they'll feel lonely pissing in a ditch 2 meters away from the bush that only has 2 ripe berries on it.

Because it was at that moment that the human species understood that in order to survive, people had to work together. COLECTIVISM!

i feel an ill-informed rant about ayn rand approaching

The Blood Sacrifice has been given. She Comes.

working together not existent on hunter-gatherers societies? I thought the whole point of agriculture was that a single person can do more work and produce more given a smaller area of land, nothing to do with collectivism or objectivitism.

also when did collectivism became working together.

>also when did collectivism became working together.
when collectivists want to avoid the unpleasant subject of gulags.

It is the environment our brains evolved for. Much of modern misery is caused by this dissonance--our brains weren't "designed" to live the way we do. This is a big part of what causes such high levels of anxiety/depression in the modern world.

>This is a big part of what causes such high levels of anxiety/depression in the modern world.
Amazing how those high levels didn't exist before the 1960s.

It did, it's just that people did have the internet to say their depressed

No, look at the fucking suicide and drug use rates.

today's hunter-gather populations are mere relics of a once more populous and thriving subsistence form.

We also have to properly define hunter gatherers.

We know for example that:

The tribes of California intentionally cared for, aerated, transplanted, weeded and pruned plants.
Baka Pygmies and "Negritos" practiced paraculture
Moriori intentionally planted karaka trees
Papuan/Melanesians lowlanders planted, tended and spread Sago along southeastern Asia.
Pacific Northwest Natives living sedentary lives of fishing gathering starch rich foods from cared for and modified fields
Southeastern Aboriginals formed massive stoneworks for the production of eels living largely sedentary lives
Jomon planted orchards
San and Okiek were Apiculturalists

the list goes on. People think domestication is a linear event. However we are learning that that is not actually the end goal. We were always food producers and could recognize the life cycles of the flora around us. Tapping into that knowledge allowed many of the worlds ancestors to maximize returns.

People weren't randomly grabbing and eating everything around them willy-nilly and hunter-gather-fisher-tenderers today aren't either.

why do collectivists shitpost so much?

Primitivists don't say we should become hunter-gatherers, but that we should look to pre-civ as inspiration to sculpt our futures to be more fulfilled.

It's possible to be a futurist-primitivists. Using technology to allow ourselves to live more comfortable, calmer, more fulfilling lives. (post-scarcity living comes to mind, which is literally what a futurist-primitivst looks forward to)

>futurist-primitivism
[laughs at you in Italian]

It really is a stupid term that I just through out there to convey that most primitivists have ideals that incorporate futurist ideals. You can't actually be prim-fut, as being primitivist involves a critique of tech and civ in general, but that critique isn't absolute. Tech can and according to prims should be used to facilitate a prim world.