Apologize

disregarding OP's shitty pic IMO the BRZ needs something significant to differentiate it from the WRX beyond it being RWD and 2 door

The power is fine. It's just too heavy.
The Miata only has 155 hp.

the power is not fine. They can do so much more with what they have and its extremely lack luster for the price.

Its the primary complaint of both of them. Low power and it costs too much vs what you get

...

It's not an automatic.
It's a CVT and it's terrible.

>CVT
>terrible

The BRZ should have been at least a few thousand cheaper than the WRX either that or you get as much or better HP than the WRX

a CVT is automatic

It's more about driving feeling than it is about number, but I wouldn't be surprised you don't understand

Huge disadvantage is that its not AWD and you can't really use it in the winter comparatively. The WRX is a way better value

friendly reminder that since both of those come with an autotragic, they are not true sports cars.

mlady

What was the last good car that didn't have an automatic option, the S2000?

but they have standard models what does it matter?

Is suddenly the Civic Si a "sports car" but the BRZ isn't because of tranny preference?

that subie wrx hatch gen didn't come with an autotragic.

nice try though

Parents wont buy the wrx for their kid. The market for the BRZ is high school and college grads

...The wrx never was/is a sports

They're both Subaru so unless you're a 17 year old boy you lose with either car.

>hurrrrrrrrrrrr

wrx does not equal STI

the wrx was only made so subaru could use it to compete in motorsports
its the literal definition of a sports car. not the subjective feelsy version that autists use to try and distinguish their 100hp rwd shitbox from a 100hp fwd shitbox.

yes it fucking did you fucking faggot

it's not just the power though.
the toyota comes almost completely 90s era stock.

other than the onboard touch screen, everything has a very mediocre and old-world level of finish.

too heavy, not enough power, lack luster interior.

the price is too high to justify. maybe when they drop down to sub 10k, they'll become good project cars (supercharger job)

thread/

Which one goes round a track better?

The stock handles better or about the same as entry level sportscars. It goes round corners as well as an m3 but it is much slower and cheaper with a lacklustre interior.

>m3 not the M4
>prius tires
dude, please.

>muh tyres defense

Put grippy tires on the WRX too and it will fucking smoke your piece of shit "god car".

WRX comes with real tires.
Toyoubaru comes with "tyres."
Enjoy your displacement tax.

Have you looked at what the original price of all those underpowered jap shitboxes you jerk off to were when they first came out in the 80's/90's?

Try not to shit yourself.

>pick two

>living in a country with displacement tax

I am sorry

viper

>the toyota comes almost completely 90s era stock
That was the point of it. It was made to be modified by the buyer like the S-chassis vehicles. Affordable if you have a job flipping burgers or something. Bottomless aftermarket, gutless stock but fun to fling around corners. Get tires that aren't shit and go drive down mountain roads like Dagumi. Or just buy something better that comes at the same price as it.

The problem is that its biggest critics are poorfags who need to justify why it isn't worthy of them. Alternatives to the 86 and BRZ exist (Miata, Genesis coupe, 370Z, Mustang) but instead of just buying those it's the same mob riding the bus and whinging about how it's too expensive.

That's why no ones buying a 30k club

whew thanks for the lap times op my commute is on willow spring raceway so that extra 3 seconds i save will help a lot

They do for Japan only, but they castrate you first.

Here's what I dont get though.

Integra Type R
>195hp FWD
>Hailed as one of the best sports car of all time
>Not cheap at all when new, impossible to find now anyway

Toyota 86
>200hp RWD
>Shat on as being too expensive when it is a few grand cheaper than anything else

I'll take "Things That Were Released 12 Years Apart" for $200, Trebek

(not that I don't like the 86)

Allow me to shed some light.

Integra Type R
>195hp FWD
Did you account for the fact that it only weighed 2500 lbs/1180kg '''at most''' when fully loaded?
>hailed as one of the best sports cars of all time
It could stomp cars costing 5-10k more than it costs around corners, but that's really only looking at numbers. The car actually had a real soul in the way its engine delivers power/responds, how the steering behaves, etc.
>not cheap at all when new, impossible to find now anyway
It was a limited production run of 1400 total for the USDM. Globally, around 30k were manufactured.

Toyota 86
>200hp RWD
Car weighs anywhere between 2620-2860 lbs/1190-1300 kg, depending on trim and market.
>shat on as being too expensive when it is a few grand cheaper than anything else
The Civic Si, Mazda Miata, Fiesta ST, and the V6 Mustang/Camaro are cheaper but are faster and more fun. Not to mention OP's pic, which can be applied to quite a few other cars out there. You're going to be spending as much as a loaded WRX just to get a car that's competitive with a Miata. Plus the engine has some very odd characteristics that make it frustrating to drive in many situations.

This is not to say that the toyobaru is a shit, but there are much more fun cars you can get for less/similar money. It does make a great track car if spending money isn't an issue though.

>rwd blank canvas for modders on skinny tyres only 3 seconds sower than a awd wrx
I'd say that's really damn good

To clarify, only the GE/GH chassis came with an auto. After 2008, the auto "WRX" was known as the Impreza GT (which was axed in 2010 due to poor sales). The widebody GV/GR models only came in manual.

Except

>Integra Type R
>$24,000 MSRP in 1998
>Equivalent of $34,800 today
>Not uncommon to hear people paid a few grand over MSRP by them, many were pre-sold through waiting lists

Closer to 3,823 sold in USA.

The Integra Type R wasn't that special either. Going off Veeky Forums laptime meme standards the 1999 Mustang GT was 2.6 seconds faster around a racetrack for the same money too. The 1999 Miata was quicker around a autocross course. All of those cost the same or less money.

itr1220.com/library.htm

>$34,000 today
Again, limited edition model that was very capable out of the box. Kinda like how it wasn't uncommon to see Final Edition Evos sell for over 45K, Fiesta/Focus ST's selling for thousands over sticker, etc. Hell, people were paying upwards of 34k for a new FRS/BRZ when they first came out because demand was so high.

>it could stomp cars 5-10k more around corners
>as long as the Mustang had an opportunity to make the most of its power advantage
>take away the massive straight and the Type R comes out on top (by about half a second)
There you go.

>The 1999 miata was quicker around an autocross course
Obviously, the miata is a good 250-300 lbs lighter.

But again, these numbers only tell half the story of why the ITR is special. As I stated previously, it's how the engine, steering, chassis, etc. feel that drew people to the car. There are quite a few videos by Best Motoring that explain the hype/lore behind the Type R. I'm a bit sad that the new one will be a turbo, but times change I guess.

Fiesta/Focus ST's when they first went on sale*

>tfw WRX would be perfect if it weren't a hatch
Fuck hatchbacks. Fuck every single one of them.

>Doesn't like hatchbacks

Your shit taste is showing, please show yourself out

You're a double idiot. Hatchbacks are great and the current WRX only comes as a sedan.

>$34,000

There really wasn't any other car in the market from $24-34,000 from 1997-2002 except for LS1 F-Bodys ($26,000) and 4.6 32v Cobras ($28,000) which would both smack the Integra around even with corners. Maybe a DSM (Eclipse GSX).

Its a good car but its a little overhyped. If you want to purely go off Veeky Forums meme standards its shit because you can get X Y Z that's faster for less money even back then. And like I said, Type Rs were never cheap. In Japan and Europe people cross-shopped them with GC8 WRX STis, Silvia K's/Spec Rs, and Evo 4-6s that cost the same or less money and were faster. They really got the mystique they did because of the American tuner era + a lack of choices from 1997-2002.

The BRZ is a good car because it drives like a 1990s car in 2016. Its 2600-2700lbs while having a 5-Star Crash Safety Rating and better NVH than anything its size/weight. People forget that when they compare it to old cars. Those 1990s cars would never be sold today. They wouldn't pass emissions or crash standards outside of the 3rd world. Most of the weight increase of newer cars has been in passive safety (rigidity/crumple zones). 1990s cars are flexy fliers compared to new cars.

I actually read that as dick too small the first time I saw it

>The Miata only has 155 hp.
And is slower and more expensive.

modern cars look like fucking tumors on wheels.

>its extremely lack luster for the price.
Another jealous nigger who can't even get a test drive in one.

topgear.com/car-reviews/toyota/gt-86/20-d-4s-2dr/first-drive

>adding on to what defines a sport car

911 gts rs, not a sports car since comes with an automatic.

>>Civic Si and Fiesta ST

>>Faster

Ok, now I know you're full of shit.The Civic Si is like... 0.1s faster to 60 MAYBE. The rest of the time it ends up being the worse sports car just because FWD vs RWD.

The Fiesta ST feels faster because it's got a lot of torque behind it - but it's actually quite a bit slower than the manual Toyota 86.

Both cars are objectively worse when it comes to balance and chassis dynamics - the Fiesta ST's center of gravity is high as fuck and it 3-wheels in stock form. It's basically a cheaper 86 (because Ford can't fucking give these things away due to the Fiesta nameplate) that's more practical and is more satisfying to drive on a day to day basis because it has mid-range power.

Civic Si? Yeah it's got pretty much nothing on the 86 - in its previous gen the only reason to pick it was if you really liked Honda's and Civics.

You guys are also forgetting that the Toyota 86 comes from the factory with a mechanical Torsen LSD that, while not as good as some other diff types, works well enough and will last for-fucking-ever with maybe a change in gear oil at 100k miles. You gotta pay extra to get that in the Miata.

The only rear end Miata owners are interested in is their boyfriend's

You still have to give props to toyota for an entry level, daily-able sports car that comes with a good suspension, rear locking diff, and fair enough power to boot. It's not supposed to be fast in a straight line, it's supposed to be a throwback to simple RWD sport coupes. I'd take a toyoboro anyday over a WRX, even though I love WRX hatches.

This is coming from an FF owner with a Mazdaspeed 3 btw