Finishing up seminary here (at a Reformed seminary). I have a decade's experience teaching theology in both academic thinktank and church contexts. I plan to pursue a Ph.D. in ANE studies, focusing on the interactions between Israel and her neighbors especially in the areas of cosmology and worship practices.
If there's any interest, I'd be happy to answer questions about church, church history, liturgy, church/world distinctions, etc.
You seem absolutely worthless to the Kingdom of God.
pass.
This is /his(tory and humanities)/, not /imaginary friends/
(I know it's a lot to ask, but it would be nice to avoid the low-hanging fruit)
I've really appreciated this tiny corner of Veeky Forums, while being mystified at the rest of it. You guys have some things to say.
Nobody is worthless in the kingdom of God, friend.
And try to find a historic understanding of humanities that isn't grounded in theological metaphysics. Or pick your favorite university and read up on their roots...
Exactly. You're studying things that are purely secular.
Maybe nobody told you, but most Christians are very leery about anyone coming out of seminary these days.
So, why not just go ahead and prove you're a born again Christian first, and then we'll talk about the Valley of Hinnom.
What is the early church view of the eucharist?
Why was Calvin wrong about hard determinism?
Just because some Seminaries have made the liberal turn doesn't mean that they're not essential. Don't you want a pastor that has been trained theologically and taught how to care for congregations?
And, on the other hand, do you want to completely concede the life of the mind to non-Christians?
What did they teach you about the Catholic church?
What seminary? Was it a good one, or was it struck with modernistic cancer too? Did you learn Koine Greek?
What university did any of the apostles attend?
When they spoke before kings and rulers, what were their orders?
Why are you so slow in responding to questions?
>Don't you want a pastor that has been trained theologically and taught how to care for congregations?
I absolutely do not want this, no. Let them get real jobs.
Remember Paul, the tent maker?
Serious question.
Are you a lesbian? I only ask because your denomination ordains women; is pro-abortion; and is pro-homosexuals.
Are you that smart Reformed guy who would post lengthy quotes from confessions and reformers?
(You)
He went to a Presbyterian seminary, where they ordain women, are pro-abortion, and pro-homosexual. I believe they ordain lesbians.
If he's a lesbian, I'm not going to waste any more time on (((him))).
John 21:15
(((You)))
Yeah - let's ignore thousands of years of paid ministers before Paul and after Paul because he made tents
Do you even understand what was happening in this event?
At all?
Do you understand the different words for love used here, and why?
Do you know what the timing of this event was?
No?
You can't even quote it?
Great start.
Now get a real job and stop fleecing the sheep. Oh, wait, you're not even fleecing the sheep yet; you're burdening yourself with debt so that you can justify fleecing the sheep later.
Are you a lesbian?
I am married with three kids, so...not a lesbian. That's a stock picture. My Seminary is reformed, and I'm in the EPC.
Matthew collected taxes; John and Peter were professional fishermen; Paul made tents even when his eyes were crusted shut.
But you?
No, you want people to GIVE YOU MONEY.
Why haven't you proven you're a christian yet?
You're retarded.
So you admit your church ordains lesbians.
I'll take that as an abject failure to respond to your own cited bible verse.
If you're trying to divorce Jesus' disciples (who, by the way, STOPPED being fishermen when they followed Jesus' mission) from the long history of the priestly chain, then this isn't very convincing.
And using Paul as an example is just dumb, since he has lengthy passages about paying ministers for their work (and even asked for his wages).
My church doesn't even ordain women, much less lesbians, friend.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Get the fugg outa there, go to the OPC or PCA
The Catholic church is our mother, whether we like it or not. We would be advised to break away where appropriate, but also to study the counter-reformation a bit more.
Many Catholics are in the kingdom of God, with whom we have serious disagreements.
Show me in the bible where the apostles stopped working and just begged other christians for money.
Hard mode: Can't count Paul collecting money for the idiots in Jerusalem who thought they could live as socialists.
And, go!
For a board that jerks off to Aquinas so hard, the hostility towards educated Christianity is confusing.
>long history of the priestly chain
So you're just as ill informed as the Catholics.
>And using Paul as an example is just dumb,
Yes, this is something real true Christians say every day.
If you'd like a longer history, I'd be happy to give it to you.
The PC(USA) has experienced a large split during the last decade, and a few hundred have left for the EPC denomination. With the influx of PCUSA (typically more liberal) churches, there have been slow adopters to EPC guidelines. It has caused a lot of...confusion. Some EPC regions have not accepted any of the PCUSA churches at all based on the women's ordination thing.
I can say with near-certainty that any gender/sexuality confusion is being brought by PCUSA churches, and the next decade will be spent sorting it out.
I know this firsthand
Denomination Ordains Women Abortion Homo-sexuality
13 Presbyterian Church USA 1930 -elder 1956 - Minister 1973 abortion 1987 Homosexuality
We're not friends dude.
You told me Paul was a tentmaker who didn't ask for money. I told you that this is false, because he asked for money for himself and for other pastors.
>The Catholic church is our mother, whether we like it or not.
As I thought, you're not even a born again Christian.
And you thought this would be an easy place to fool people.
kek
He's not a Christian. He's training to prey off of Christians.
It seems like you have an axe to grind here. Are you arguing that all Christian ministry be bi-vocational? No tithing/charity?
Gotta go fast
>And using Paul as an example is just dumb, since he has lengthy passages about paying ministers for their work (and even asked for his wages).
Go ahead and prove this in the bible.
Step 1: Be confronted with someone who claims they are a Christian.
Step 2: Test them.
Step 3: If they refuse or fail to respond, or have no idea what being a Christian is, expose them as frauds.
You're a fraud. You don't become a Christian by graduating seminary.
You're literally a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I'm glad you can spot non-Christians on the internet. The truth is that the early church was Catholic (not in the sense of Roman headship, but in the sense that it was universal). There wasn't a need for a "Reformed" movement in the first few centuries, because the abuses of theology and government hadn't occurred yet.
Sorry - what was the test?
Yes, it's called discernment, and it's a gift given to me by the Holy Spirit, and one commended by Jesus to the Church at Ephesus.
I can to it irl too.
Comes in real handy.
All Catholics in Heaven are there in spite of Catholicism, not because of it.
The Counter-Reformation should be studied for the purpose of refuting Romanism only.
I think he's an independent baptist, it's best to ignore such foolishness.
You've had, what, 15 minutes to frantically google something by now?
1st Cor 16
2nd Cor 9
Is Dr Robotnik Christian?
Or to study just how bloody the assassin's order, the Order of Loyola, actually was. Tens of millions of murders. Tens of millions.
lol - I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be frantically googling right now. I guess I missed the joke.
Top 10 things that are foolish about "independent baptists".
Go!
You're talking about the society of Jesus, right?
13 Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong. 14 Let all that you do be done with love.
15 I urge you, brethren—you know the household of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints— 16 that you also submit to such, and to everyone who works and labors with us.
Gee, nothing about wages at all, only submission.
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. 9 As it is written:
“He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever.”
Gee, strike two.
What else did you "learn" in sheep fleecing school?
They want to be "independent" but still belong to a larger denomination. They want to be congregational when it comes to voting on budgets/staff, but part of baptist conventions when it comes to needing help theologically and organizationally. Silly.
Your. christian. testimony.
Yup. Jesuits. Like the current black pope.
Says the man from an offshoot sect of Presbyterianism.
That ordains lesbians.
Not only are you purposefully ignoring the relevant verses in those chapters that relate to paid vocational ministry, but your tone is wearing me down. I suggest you take up this issue with the people who actually have abused it in your life, not with me, friend.
1 Timothy 5:18
nao pls go new ager
OP pls answer this
No one who ordains lesbians would be allowed to teach/preach/elder in my presbytery. I can't speak for others.
I won't let you lie on the internet.
Do I seem like the sort of person who tolerates abuse from anyone, anywhere?
Those verses you cited had nothing to do with Paul begging for wages, as you claimed.
Everything you said so far has indicated that you have no idea what being born again means.
There are only a few good Reformed seminaries left: Westminster, RTS, Covenant. I go to one of those.
Luke 10:7
And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house.
Maybe learn to back up your cites.
First verse, friend: 16:1 With regard to the collection for the saints, please follow the directions that I gave to the churches of Galatia: 16:2 On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside some income and save it to the extent that God has blessed you, so that a collection will not have to be made when I come
You mock independent baptists for breaking away from some liberal baptist group, while you're in a Presbyterian group who broke away from a more liberal Presbyterian group.
You're a hypocrite.
Look at 1 Timothy 5:18 in it's own context, Paul is talking about churchmen
You really don't know how to read, do you.
Hard mode: You fail yet another test.
Do you think you can fool God?
You're stretching the labor is worthy of his wages to a place where it does not belong.
When Jesus sent those men forth, their wages were room and board.
The issue is not whether or not it's ok to break away from a tradition that you think is unhealthy.
The issue is that "independent baptist" congregations want to have their cake and eat it too. They want oversight and funding when it helps them, but they simultaneously want isolated democracy when it comes to local church issues.
The issue is that you're not a christian, pretended to be an "educated" christian, can't answer the simplest question about salvation, and have no idea what the gospel is.
Oh, and you're a hypocrite for chiding baptists for doing what you do.
There are a lot of interesting things we could talk about...
Do we really want to keep on this tithing theme?
Nobody has asked me a question about salvation or the gospel.
I would wonder why you think that Christians ought to be anti-intellectual. Is the life of the mind enemy territory now?
There is no tithing in the New Covenant.
Wow, you literally know nothing about Christianity.
How much better your family could have used that money!
How is high church Presbyterians like?
For literally the fourth time, how did you become a Christian.
What is the gospel.
I really appreciate a more liturgical approach to worship. There is a lot to be said for practices and rhythms to find their way into worship. Things like the Book of Common Prayer sustained ordinary Christians for hundreds of years, and it's nice to see these practices being retrieved.
I think we can accept historic liturgies and a deeper sense of historic worship without immediately rejecting it because it "feels Catholic." Remember, we are justified by faith in Christ, so we are free to participate in church calendar, responsive readings, etc. without thinking that they affect our status before God.
I because a Christian when I trusted that Christ gave me His righteousness and took my sin in the great exchange. I understood these things before I believed their implications.
The gospel is the good news that the Messiah has come in Jesus Christ, that he claimed to take our sins, and that His resurrection from the dead proved His claims of divinity and all His promises to us. I believe that the Scriptures attest to these and other historic realities, and that they are divine-inspired. I believe in the local church as the institution which carries out the mission of God, whether the culture around it understands it or not.
I agree
This is why I symphatize with the Mercerburg movement
One day the High Church will be restored
It's one of the reasons why my generation will regret this experiment that's lasted 2 decades now. Whether we call it "emerging church," "seeker-sensitive church," or something else, it's all the same project that began in the 80s: a data-driven, demographic approach to church growth.
They saw a problem (less people under 30 attending church) and attempted to reverse engineer the solution. More vibrant music, more attention to social issues, less expository preaching - these have been the main variables being adjusted.
The irony, of course, is that even when we change EVERYTHING, they don't stay. In fact, they get just enough of a taste for what it's like to encounter God that they long for something deeper and more transcendent...and they go Catholic.
The numbers are bearing it out. By presenting church as easily accessible and not that different from other parts of Millennial life, we are actually confusing them.
So, yes - high church eventually wins.
Yup. Just what I figured.
You are up to the forgiveness of sins at the cross.
You're not a Christian yet because you don't know that all mens' sins were forgiven at the cross, and that the forgiveness of sins is not salvation.
Graduating seminary.
Not a Christian.
And you wonder why people look at seminarians crosswise.
>a data-driven, demographic approach to church growth.
The emergent church is Mystery Babylon, headed by satan, and promulgated by the False Prophet, aka the pope.
You're soooooo lost.
I'm not even going to attempt to parse out what you intend to say here.
It sounds like you're advocating universal salvation.
You're counting on universal salvation right now.
And you're a fool to do so.
Show me in the bible where what you said makes a person a Christian.
The gospel is not "the Messiah has come".
That "gospel" was taught on Palm Sunday, 10 Nisan 32 AD.
Alright friends,
Since the only person responding at this point is either slow-headed or trolling, I'm going to abandon this thread. Thanks to people who had genuine questions. See you next time.
For Christianity being a religious supposedly about love, this thread seems pretty intolerant.
I'm a born again Christian.
You're not.
That's why you don't understand what I'm telling you, because I'm telling you things that have to be spiritually discerned.
Your definition is flawed, and your application is flawed. It's no wonder you got to such an awful conclusion.
Christianity is about justification by faith. Love is a byproduct of being called by God. Don't let the world impose its definition of love onto redemptive history.
I got it! I'll flip a coin.
Heads you're a Christian, Tails you're not.
Moooooom! Come see my post!
(This is how I know you live with your mother.)
Did anyone believe in Marian Assumption in the early Church?
FPBP
Was the early church 1854?
Then no.