Trickle down economics

Meme tier.

Look at China.

it's really simple. If you give 5 billion to 50 million people, that money will be spent immediately in its entirety. If you give 5 billion to one person, he will probably spend 10% of that at best, if he really is in the mood to throw money down the toilet.
Also people seem to forget that most really expensive consumer products (not talking about stuff like mass produced cars) are made by people who are incredibly rich already. Therefore the money remains in the pockets of the 1%. Basically trickle down can never ever work.

my point is that products with a high profit margin benefit workers more. I think that is a sound observation. it has nothing to do with the product being produced or how it is produced. you're getting caught up in meaningless details.

>automation is a meaningless detail

>If you give 5 billion to 50 million people, that money will be spent immediately in its entirety. If you give 5 billion to one person

How about we not give $ to anyone?

now we're thinking with portals

I'm 24 years old and you wouldn't pay 'me' for anything. I don't think the money would be coming from the common taxpayer to begin with.

There is massive poverty in the lower class, to the point where people can't survive on min. wage. At the very least min wage across the nation needs to be raised -very much, and so to would other wages have to raise.

Beyond that automation is very much looming. I'm learning software engineering while working at Target part time. With as little as I know, I could make a legitimate solo project out of automating a percentage of my job. With modest funds / some time to learn math, I could automate most of my job. I've also worked an excel monkey job that was begging for complete automation, and I've heard of more. A large portion of the health sector revolves around mindlessly auditing charts.

With our current technology alone, software still has much of the world left to eat and it's going to require a safety net to stop society from collapsing in order for it to run its course.

how about you stop fishing for (you)s by acting purposedly retarded?

>Tripfag

>Wants to give away other peoples $

SAD!

>There is massive poverty in the lower class, to the point where people can't survive on min. wage.

Poverty just means less. They are surviving just fine. Even hoboes survive thanks to generosity and confiscatory taxation. Don't be so melodramatic it makes you sound like a child or a female

this.

Imagine how many more jobs could have been created if the money had been spent on several cheaper cars for the same overall price rather than one luxury car.

lol
No American should have to live homeless in America. Poverty - surviving by living in a disgusting neighborhood, constantly working, unable to have time to think and feeling zero sense of mobility and ever-present debt - isn't how people should live in a first world country. Not while the CEO's of their companies make more than than they'll ever spend in their lifetimes.

Poverty is like a hereditary disease. It's easy to throw out the word 'education' while this disease runs rampant in every part of their lives, infecting their ability to even see what their options are. That isn't equal opportunity.

All of my direct coworkers over the years are living in a hole too deep for them to see opportunity. I have experience with this hole. It's not pretty.

Beyond a giant reform needed in public education, there's still the fact that the market is calling for the elimination of an ever growing percentage of the job market. I think this should happen. I'd love to be involved in making it happen. But I don't think people deserve to become homeless because of it.

I'm not banging against a wall here. In 10 years basic income will be a part of the mainstream conversation.

corvettes are for wageslaves

>tfw when you where born into a millionare family but you aren't fucked up enough to go around in a luxury car while there's people trapped in poverty blocks away for life

how do I delude myself into thinking this degeneracy is acceptable so I can enjoy my wealth?

Keep in mind that being poor in a 1st world country is a cakewalk, it's not like they're actually going to starve to death or something.

Then realize that your parents worked for that wealth and can give it to whoever they want. If they wanted to they could've given it to your poor neighbors but they didn't. You should respect their wishes and enjoy the gifts you've been given without guilt.

finally you should tell yourself that poor people make bad choices so they deserve to be poor. You made a good choice by choosing rich parents, so you deserve to be wealthy. Enjoy!

user... that isn't a trip. That's a name.

Are you implying that the billionaire is going to keep 4.5BN in his checking account? Of course not, he's going to invest it in establishing businesses, stocks, funds, bricks and mortar, art, wine, cars, what-the-fuck-ever. In other words his capital will be employed and that stimulates the economy. Wealth is very rarely simply hoarded currency.

>You made a good choice by choosing rich parents
Basically user has discredited his whole post with this, and is instead trying to tell you that you shouldn't be a wealthy cock-head like you're saying you are, and instead you should help your fellow man.

Give your money to me. I'll bear your burden, brother.

>poor people make bad choices so they deserve to be poor
>advocating debt slavery
So the government should allow meth to be sold then?

Nice roleplaying. Here's your (You).

>constantly working

What do you mean by this?

>Die
>Get cremated/buried
>Become air
>Get inside a man or woman who is very very rich
>become sperm/ovum
>Get fertilized
>?????
>Profit

You're ID is brown so I'll ASSume you're Indian

POO

Your comment is unfunny and unoriginal, so i'll assume you voted for Trump

you have to be 18 to post on Veeky Forums, user. Come back when you've grown up and actually know what you are talking about

It's just jealous and insecure people trying to be on their high horse because they know they'll never have it. I'm sure there's a word for it, but I call it being a faggot. They reject themselves beforehand so they look superior and so they don't have to feel the pain. In denial, basically. Like the people who are like... Oh I don't find this celebrity attractive, I wouldn't date them... Yeah... Like you'd ever have the chance? Same with cars... They know they'll never have it and they start talking shit about it. Don't play the victim to circumstances you created.

I used to be an /r9k/ certified member. I changed my life around and now I'm moist. While I was a robot, people would talk down to me and treat me like shit. Like I was a lesser. They'd act like I didn't even exist. They'd always be passive aggressive and rub their "successful", relative to my life at the time, life in my face.

Then once I got enough money to buy myself a $500 car... Yeah, that's right I was pimpin'. They'd laugh even more. Like they pitied me. Oh look at you with your little car, how cute...

Then I got an Audi... Fuck me in the ass and call me Sally... You'd think I fucking killed their children or something. They'd be the biggest cunts to me... They'd always fuck with me and be antagonizing. I even gave one a ride that "accidentally" kicked the door while exiting leaving a bigass scuff mark from his greasy shoe. Still mad about that.

People are faggots regardless. I got rid of the car because it's not worth it for various reasons, one being that it's a lot more stressful then you'd think having people constantly fuck with you like that and unless you've experienced it first hand, I don't think you can understand. I'll get something more ridiculous later on once I'm more used to these retards and know how to deal with them emotionally so they don't ruin my day, you know? Or once I surround myself with better people.

It seems to me like your best life choice move will be to move to a new place. Normal people arent like that mate.

Sounds familiar.
My car is ridiculous, so I only take it places in the middle of the day, when parking lots tend to be empty and I can keep an eye on it.
Otherwise, like you said, I have to deal with jackoffs who might fuck with it just because they're jackoffs.

People aren't binding contracts, and shouldn't have to define well-defined terminology.

But you forget that taxes aren't about equalizing the wealth of the classes so much as paying the government so it can do its job.

Abolishing income tax would be largely counterproductive towards that end.

Why do people conflate jobs together as if they were an amorphous mass of perfectly equivalent concepts?

>mutual funds benefit the middle class meme

Nice one jew

We automated our factory over the summer. Lost 3 general labor workers per line but hired 1 operator per line and 1 tech per 3 lines. Lost some no skill jobs but created skilled jobs that paid almost twice as much.

60% of the positions were general laborers we already had and were willing to train. The ones laid off were offered to stay but they were butthurt scum that didn't want to learn anything new. Their loss.

Not to mention the jobs created at the place that makes the robots. The people in transportation and logistics getting paid. Etc.

How about instead of deciding how much welfare we should give everyone.

We raise the minimum wage to an acceptable level (not something crazy like $15). We deport those who are working illegally. We stop exporting every job we can to China. And people can have jobs again.

Because basic income is a pipe dream that will never happen because the rich are never going to pay for it.

>The ones laid off were offered to stay but they were butthurt scum that didn't want to learn anything new. Their loss.

this is the biggest problem i find. a lot of people don't want to adapt

>No income tax

Fucking leech. Greed is short term selfish thinking that ruins the collective to benefit the individual. Without the collective the individual would die. Trickle down is why there are so many unemployed people, why jobs leave countries and why the rich seem to be the only ones who benefit.

Because one of your luxuries as a tax payer and member of society is you pay the poor a much cheaper price to keep them fed and healthy. If you didn't, you'd be paying even more for larger police forces, prisons and your medical bill after some starving homeless mug you for your McPaycheck.

Its a myth we aspos tell ourselves to justify our greed.

There are three big problems with trickle down economics. The first is that gravity works the opposite way to what people expect: money is attracted to more money! But that's not a huge problem in itself, as gravity is a weak force and there are stronger forces at work.

The second problem is that globalization means the poor in rich countries are often overlooked in favour of the poorer people overseas.

And the third problem is it overlooks the contribution governments can make to economies.

>99% of american homelessness is due to mental disease and addiction
>Poverty is self inflicted in all adults
>Welfare is basic income

>this is the mind of your average socialist

can we stop with this "trickle down economics" meme? It's just basic economics.

The only thing government does is create giant bureaucracies and raise prices while destroying the free market.

You could tax the 1% at 100% and you still wouldn't even have HALF the funds you would need to fund everything you want.

globalization benefits mega corporations,globalization in the modern day is globalism that exist solely to monopolies lobyist and their corporate overlords.

Go listen to ron paul, peter schiff or anyone with an accurate sense of monetary and economic policy.

I don't want to fucking become venseula because of useful idiots like yourself

how big of a faggot must that guy be to be rich and still have a meme-tier argument to defend his faggotry in the name of white knighting "the common man" holy shit that guy must gay

Trickle down has two main problems:

1) People at the top saving the extra income instead of spending it

2) The assumption that as the top makes more they will increase wages of the tiers below, when actually no wages will rise whatsover, only more jobs at the same payrates will open up.

So to that Corvette guy, he's right, but also assuming that the owners of capital aren't exploiting the proletariat. Which they usually are.

>Go listen to ron paul, peter schiff
why don't you read economics books and research papers instead of listening to literal memes who know nothing about economics?

t. Someone who recently watched the Wolf of Wall Street

Trickle down is a phrase popularised during Regan's era for his policy of low taxes and regulation to stimulate the economy

>words have no meaning because I don't like it

>assuming that the owners of capital aren't exploiting the proletariat
of course they are.

you're assuming the proletariat doesn't agree to be exploited because they believe they may one day be the ones doing the exploiting.

Dunning Kruger effect in motion. The average joe doesn't know he's too stupid to ever be rich, and there's not a fucking thing you can do or say to convince him.

Hi Marxist.

Of the bottom 20% of wage-earners, over 90% will not be in the bottom 20% of wage-earners near the end of their lives.

That's an IRS statistic, by the way.

Everything this man is saying is true, but it's still a poor justification to buy an inefficient gas-guzzling luxury car that will never be able to reach anywhere near top speed legally on civilian roads (and for that reason probably encourages illegal and dangerous behavior).

My problem with that "b-b-but it creates jobs" mentality lately is that it's consistently used as justification to do bad or stupid things. It's not that the general concept of trickle-down economics is bad, it's that it often results in unintended side effects.

>Of the bottom 20% of wage-earners, over 90% will not be in the bottom 20% of wage-earners near the end of their lives.
How many will be in the top 1%?

Ah yeah. 1% of them. Most people overestimate their chances of getting rich. If they didn't we'd have revolutions everywhere.

Some people don't wanna be rich.

Some people just wanna be comfortable.

You're exactly right, but comfort is subjective. It's easier to be comfortable when your neighbor doesn't have more than you. The poor in capitalist nations tend to overlook the fact that they're still richer than probably 90% of the rest of the world. So they demand equality of wealth thinking it will make them richer when in fact it can only make them poorer.

That's just called jealousy. That's not a call for stealing people's money.

sure, but that doesn't make it any less real or pervasive.

we both know if you took all the wealthy people's money and handed it around it wouldn't amount to a damn thing anyways. Most poor people are pretty damn rich anyways, they just have a lot of debt. It's hard to feel bad for people that have a net worth of 0 but are living in a McMansion driving three new cars and towing a camper, boat, seadoos, whatever. They may be poor on paper, but they're not really poor. They just have to work for the wealth they're enjoying. So terrible.

>how do I delude myself into thinking this degeneracy is acceptable so I can enjoy my wealth?
you cannot enjoy it

unconditional basic income will fix all problems

Do you people hate freedom?

The man bought a car with his own fucking money

Literally who fucking cares

until the ziofascist police-state decides to add conditions to the unconditional basic income.

>There is massive poverty in the lower class, to the point where people can't survive on min. wage.
Min wage worker here. You're so full of shit. Maybe if you live in a city but thats your own damn fault.
I used to live just outside sf and even with the higher min wage it was harder to survive there than it was here.
Also pro tip. you shouldn't be working min wag past 25.

>Beyond that automation is very much looming. I'm learning software engineering while working at Target part time. With as little as I know, I could make a legitimate solo project out of automating a percentage of my job.
Then why don't you go to a bank and get a loan you fucking faggot.
I hate people like you. basic income is literal communism. You have to realize how retarded that is right?

It doesn't matter what you do poverty will always exist. Its like trying to automatically cure all sickness and crime in the world. You are a retarded commie probably from infinitichan here to shill your horrible ideology because for some reason you think you have a grasp on economics. Let me just tell you, life isn't fair. It was never meant to be. Trying to make more "fair" is arbitrary and doesn't work. It is like forcing a rabbit to hunt down a lion.
Do you really want to make the first world a better place where poor people can live in safe neighborhoods? Get rid of blacks and you've solved the problem already.
Where did you get this notion that everything should be fair in the first place? Even from the time you are conceived life is not fair. Someone out there will have better genetics then you and will be smarter than or stronger then you. They will have a better life then you. Should we demonize people for having good genetics just because of their parents next? No different from blaming someone born into a rich family. Stop pointing at the good looking kid and blaming him for all your girl problems in school. Its not his fault you are a balding manlet at 15.

Its really easy. There is no shame in having good parents. Would you feel guilty if you were born tall and handsome. Would you feel guilty about hogging all the good genetics? No, you would not. You were born with it. Others were not. It is as simple as that yet you have been brainwashed into hating yourself. If you really want to enjoy your wealth use it to invest so that others can earn it and maybe they will give it to their children.

>It's hard to feel bad for people that have a net worth of 0 but are living in a McMansion driving three new cars and towing a camper, boat, seadoos, whatever
t.sheltered trust fund babby who never met a poor person his whole life and identifies whining millionaires as low-class

Do you unironically believe that shit? Literally kys

Sounds like something Romans would tell their slaves.

What you claim to be "basic economics" is nothing of the sort, because it greatly exaggerates the effects of some economic principles and totally ignores others.

>The only thing government does is create giant bureaucracies and raise prices while destroying the free market.
Do you honestly believe what you've written?

Markets are a good tool for allocating scarce resources, but not all resources need be scarce. And markets are not perfect – they have an inherent short term bias, and they favour the interests of the rich. Also, poverty can limit people's participation in markets. And markets only work efficiently when there is plenty of competition, but that itself is inefficient when there are significant economies of scale.

I'm certainly not advocating taxing anyone at 100%. But if governments invest in education, health and infrastructure so that more people become more productive, more funds would become available and there would be less funding constraints on doing more.

BTW I find it quite ironic that you tell me to listen to Ron Paul (who's famous for wanting to stop letting the markets determine the value of the US dollar, and instead tie it to gold) and then express your opposition to becoming Venezuela (where their biggest economic problem is the result of tying their currency to the US dollar instead of letting the market decide its value).

By being high margin the price of the product is much higher than the cost of production. The margin goes to the seller, not the producer. So... your post made no sense.

To my understanding, only Americucks fell for the Trickle Down meme, so I think it's more a problem with the American education system and American culture, rather than some innate issue with humanity. One thing I've noticed is that the majority of stupid ideas since WW2 have come from America. I honestly can't say why Americans in particular are so extreme in every aspect, but it's a similar situation to Muslim countries.
For whatever reason, these 2 cultures come up with so many horrible ideas, the difference is that Americans shouldn't be falling for them, since they SHOULD be well educated.
Specifically with Trickle Down econ, I think it comes from the dumb American lower class that doesn't understand how success works. They post their gay little inspirational messages on facebook, go to their gay little church, and spout gay little platitudes to one another in order to convince themselves that they know how to become successful. I think that the main force behind this could very likely be intense government propaganda from the cold war which has essentially fried the collective American mind. Maybe it's the lead in their cars, maybe Americans are just genetically inferior. The issue is that no one has made an attempt to find the root cause of American stupidity out of fear of reprisal, so we will never know why Americans are such gullible memers.

Nice name faggot, how much credit are you looking for people to give you for your posts?
Very worthwhile contributor

to my knowledge your spending 50% of your income on some muslims healthcare and housing.

Why would romans educate their slaves on the truths of the world?
Oh but guess what, they're right. Slavery still exists to this day.

>they have an inherent short term bias, and they favour the interests of the rich.
They favor the consumer. AKA average people. Why are you so fucking retarded?
>But if governments invest in education, health and infrastructure so that more people become more productive,
Thats not at all how it works. Also by the way, people with educations are not more productive they are profiting off the production thats being done by most people. This is not wrong though in any way.

>taxes aren't about equalizing
>what is welfare

>Greed is short term selfish thinking
THAT EXISTS IN EVERYONE. Nobody is altruistic. Nothing you say or think will ever change that without changing the chemistry of life itself.

The "collective" is nothing but a group of individuals. Read an economics book, please. You sound so uneducated.

Welfare is a small program used to help people when they can no longer help themselves. It also helps lazy niggers get more money while they steal bikes and sell dope.
Welfare is not about equalizing its about helping. It is a government funded charity. And it is also shit.
Taxes are really meant for infrastructure and military.

>welfare is a small program
Fair enough
>it's about helping
In theory
>taxes are really meant for infrastructure
Which is complete shit just about everywhere you go. Three cheers for infrastructure spending off of vehicle-related taxes.

There are more taxes than income tax. If you want the economy to grow you need to stop taking from people's incomes. That's the wrong way to tax.

Flow of currency is important, but trickle down is bullshit. Even groups that had a vested interest in finding it works have found it's bullshit.

And how much of a twat do you have to be to pretend like a sportscar purchase is some moral action ffs?

Depends on the size of the positive multiplier

/end

I generally agree, but I would classify workers as infrastructure.

Their republic got screwed and then their empire collapsed largely because of slavery. It was "uncompetitive" to hire freemen vs having slaves, and where did that bring them? Neither Romans nor their language exists as it was right now.

Life being not fair and letting people starve in the streets are two different things. And with greater and greater automation this is where things are going. 30% of people can't even do gr8 level math, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't live in dignity.

It makes a certain amount of sense till you realize it is based on an outdated economic setup. The main transfer of wealth is more or less supposed to happen in a manufacturing sector with a heavy human labor component. The loss of this middle man screws it all over since service industry is a poor replacement due to the simple movement of goods is less valuable by far than the production of goods, especially on a global level.

my dad admited to me that he had luck, he started several websites back in the day before the internet bubble and sold domains for millions, he said he had no idea it would retire him. now hes obsessed with bitcoin and says in 10 to 20 years it will be huge.

i can't delude myself into thinking poor people make bad choices when there isn't probably free will at all. from a physical perspective, determinism seems like the most reasonable theory. its like everything its unfolding and theres no way out.

if i was good looking i would never have deep thoughts since good looking people get validation since day 1 and are low sentience

as a high sentience person, if i was good looking at the same time, i would hate the fact that life is so random and unfair, as I do now. but like i said before, if you are born good looking, chances are you dont even question any of this shit.

i was born rich, meanwhile there's people that's smarter than me rotting their life away in college and will never enjoy free time as i do, they will be collegecucks then wagecucks at best

similarly, there's people playing videogames and making dumb low effort videos and making 6 figures a month

the whole thing is ridiculous and fucked up.
the actual brainwashing is deluding yourself into thinking otherwise. and i know theres no solution, i just want to live in a world where theres basically nothing, just abstract mathematical formulas or something.

I wish i was low sentience and good looking to be able to enjoy my wealth (the fact that I can't buy biological attraction is a major killer too)

>doesn't know the difference between gross and net worth
die in a fire

The guy in OP's pic is a faggot poo in loo, should have just called the fucker a filthy commie and be done with it. Fucking immigrants.

You have to differentiate between trickle down trade and trickle down innovation. The former states that luxury is like rain water and prosperity is like the resulting lake. Statist capitalists like the guy in your pic actually believe this in spite of how absurd it is. Communists also use it as a straw man for the legitimate concept of trickle down innovation.

To some extent, markets do favour consumers. But they favour rich consumers more than average ones.

I think you misunderstand my point. I'm not saying markets are a bad thing. That really would be retarded. Markets are a good thing.
But there's nothing retarded about acknowledging their inherent imperfections.
Markets still work when the government participates in them, and they still work when the government regulates them. Indeed they often work better. And there is no good reason for governments to leave everything to the markets.

>Thats not at all how it works.
Mere contradiction is insufficient. Why do you think it does not work like that?

>Also by the way, people with educations are not more productive
Yes they are. Productivity is a measure of the value of the work they do, not the amount of effort they put in. Education is important for that, and its importance is likely to grow even more if current trends continue, as intellectual property value is making up an increasing proportion of the value of products.

Fuck, feels good to live in Australia and avoid all this Burgerland nonsense.

In canada we need a basic income for everyone so people arent living like shit, I work full time and make 1400 a month and I can't afford anything other than food and rent. It's ridiculous working 40 hours a week and still being poor

>I wish i was low sentience
well, lucky you: you are.

>implying that has anything to do with my point at all
you're an illiterate nigger

why so butthurt, nigger? Does truth hurt?

>>implying that has anything to do with my point at all
you didn't make a point.

I said most of America's poor have zero net worth and thousands of dollars in assets and your stupid ass went off crying about how they're millionaires.

literally retarded.

>agree to be exploited

You mean conned into voting against their own self interests because of stupid slogans and whacked out priorities like abortion mattering more than minimum wage increases.

Yeah those damn poor people who aren't having their needs met are so well off because they make more than the extreme poverty stricken 3rd worlders who make their shoes.

The economy is more valuable to the wealthy than the wealthy are to the economy. Most poor people are really fucking poor and don't have houses or boats. You better be trolling.

Rational requirements like "don't be a drug addict" and "community service if you don't have a job" are not ridiculous in the slightest.

We have laws to prevent greed from getting out of hand and to protect people from more powerful people who seek to abuse them. Stupidity exists in everyone, but that doesn't mean we should just allow it.