As Orion you get dirt cheap Wild Riders and with a bit of effort you can have them recruited with silver upgrades.
They are fast, vanguard, cheap to get and maintain and get really great with hero skills directed for them.
Ethan Hall
I got curious as to how much better Demigryphs are than Reiksguard, so I did a bit of preliminary testing. In all 3 tests, the army composition was 1 lord and 2 units, with the lord mounted but with no abilities. These tests should not be considered conclusive, and are not entirely indicitive of how they would perform under normal circumstances. In the next day or two, I'm planning on playing an Empire campaign (ultra unit size) and bringing 2 units of both Reiksguard and Demigryph knights in 2 armies. One buffed for Reiksguard, one buffed for Demigryphs. I'm not including Halberd Demigryphs because they fill a different role (anti-large cav) than either of the two units in question (shock cavalry). If there is anything I should keep in mind going forward, please bring it to my attention. And yes, this is all pre-typed.
Gavin Jones
GET OUT ME 'EAD
Nolan Davis
The first thing I would like to bring up is the cost of the units in question, and how much one would get for the price tag. In custom battles, Reiksguard are 1200 points and Demigryph Knights are 1500 points. In the grand campaign, Reiksguard have an upkeep of 300 gold per turn (gpt), and Demigryph Knights have an upkeep of 375 gpt. At this point, it can be determined that Reiksguard are cheaper than Demigryph Knights. However, Demigryph Knights have better stats across the board (pic related, and next pic for comparison) without any tech, charge bonus (CB), health (HP), and unit size excepting. At a glance, Demigryphs are objectively superior. For the sake of being thorough, the first test consisted of an Empire General on a barded warhorse with no abilities, and 2 Reiksguard/Demigryph Knights charging into each other and watching who walked away. Neither group had promotions. 5 trials were run on normal battle difficulty, on subterranean maps to avoid hills. with the following results: 1. Attacking Demigryphs, 3 losses 2. Attacking Demigryphs, 5 losses 3. Attacking Demigryphs, 8 losses 4. Defending Demigryphs, 1 loss 5. Defending Demigryphs, 6 losses The determining factor in how many Demigryphs are taken down was whether or not the AI tried to counter charge the Demis. The Reiksguard have a slightly better CB, but the AI would often try to avoid or soften the Demigryph charge, which resulted in worse damage to the Reiksguard. To summarize; Reiksguard cannot beat Demigryph Knights in a straight fight, and if Reiksguard must face them, it is better to charge than to eat a charge. Nothing we didn't already know, so we're going into a more important test.
Jack Johnson
For the second test, an Empire Lord on a barded warhorse, one unit of Reiksguard, and one unit of Demigryph Knights will be charging unarmored enemies (four units of Orc Boys, led by a Night Goblin Warboss on a Squig). This test will be conducted to see how many kills each unit will rack up. 3 tests as attackers, 3 tests as defenders with unskilled lords for all 6 tests, which will take place on the "Glacial Lake" land battle map. Demigryphs will be referred to as DK, and Reiksguard will be referred to as RG. 1.RG 192, DK 168. RG in better condition, both cycled. 2.RG 182, DK 227. DK in better condition, DK cycled. 3.RG 107, DK 235. RG/DK about even, RG cycled. 4.RG 89, DK 162. DK in better condition, both cycled. 5.RG 107, DK 56. DK in better condition, DK cycled. 6.RG 56, DK 154. RG in better condition, RG cycled. The results got me curious, so I tried a 7th battle where neither unit was cycled on attack. 7.RG 113, DK 167. DK in better condition I admit that my inexperience in handling cavalry may have affected the results, but I believe that the test can still return convincing results. As a side note, the Night Goblin Warboss on a squig will usually outclass the Empire General(barded warhorse), as in all 7 trials the Warboss beat the General soundly, and a potion of toughness had to be employed to hold the Warboss in place long enough to prevent him from skewing results.
Robert Powell
Do you want archers or not?
Yes Demigryphs shit on Reiksguard. I hate Demigryphs.
Halber Demigryphs are still probably better shock cav than Reiksguard.
Dylan Richardson
For the third test, a similar army composition to the second test will be deployed against a necromancer and two grave guards. This will be testing the Reiksguard and Demigryph Knights against armored targets, as Black Orcs killed the Reiksguard and the general dying to the Night Goblin Warboss would then cause the Demigryph units to rout. Other than the change in targets, this test is similar to the second test in all regards (but without the potion, since the Necromancer can't beat the General, and only 2 units of Grave Guard). In an attempt to ensure similar conditions, the trails will not include cycle charging, since it skewed results in the second test. I may revisit the second and third preliminary tests at the end of campaign testing, or if I find someone willing to apply their experience in cav management to test what's better at killing defenseless gobbos/zombies. 1.RG 33, DK 75 2.RG 44, DK 94 3.RG 29, DK 78 4.RG 57, DK 57 5.RG 59, DK 135 6.RG 35, DK 123 Trial 4 is an outlier, since the Demigryph Knights hit the edge of the Grave Guard, so they didn't have more than 8 Knights actually swinging at once. To summarize the results of this test: AP units are better at killing armored targets than units that aren't AP. Shocking, I know.
Kevin Diaz
I'll ask this again in the new thread. I'll bear both of those in mind, but I don't think I've played enough Attila to be ready for an overhaul.
Henry Jones
So to conclude preliminary testing: the Demigryph Knights appear to be all around better than Reiksguard, but there's a shot that Reiksguard are more cost efficient than Demigryph Knights against Greenskins and Vampire Cunts (however distant), so I will go ahead with the Grand Campaign testing. I plan on using mods, but nothing that will directly impact the stats or performance of the units in question. However, I'll list them so somebody can point out whether or not I've overlooked something. 10 building slots - All Province Capitals All Tabletop Lords Better Camera Mod Building the Empire Extra Lord Levels Look, I just don't want to spend 50 turns leveling up two dudes when I only need them for their red tree. Imperial Foot Sue me, but I don't trust Swordsmen late game, and a Greatsword line is asking to get raped by missiles. Imperial Taxes and Technology Mogar's Militias I'm willing to admit that I may or may not be a shitter, but that's why I posted the list of mods I'm using. If there's anything I should add in or take out, I'm open to suggestions, but I'm hesitant to mess with combat stats with mods. Should I grab anything to deal with Welves, or just deal with them early/mid game instead of Sylvania? I like the Reiksguard in lore, and I want them to be relevant as more than a stepping stone towards Demigryphs, which is why I started testing to begin with.
Xavier Phillips
I wonder which are better at dealing with low tier infantry, Reiksgaurd have more numbers and armor piercing is not needed against such units.
But demi cause fear or terror, but I alsways find them lackluster as a hammer.
Dylan Johnson
whole heartedly agree
Chase Nelson
I didn't read all that stuff you just wrote, but reiksgard are better as a traditional shock cav unit vs infantry, as their charge bonus + number of models means that they deliver more damage vs infantry when charging, which is the role they should be used in instead of what you seem to have done in just having them straight up engage an enemy unit
Ian Jenkins
Can you wait with charging or will they instantly spot you?
John Anderson
I've noticed that halberd demigryphs have less survivability than normal demigryph knights, and the lack of a shield makes them susceptible to missile fire. They also have less charge bonus, so the damage on initial charge almost evens out because of the unit size difference.
The charge bonus and increased damage of the demigryph knights sets the charge in favor of the demigryphs, from what I can tell. The reiksguard sent more people flying, but the demigryphs killed more people in the charge. The demigryphs are also faster, so they can get where they need to be quicker.
Brayden Cruz
I haven't found many mods for Attila I'd really like to use except these.
Those 2 are skill tree overhauls but it can be pretty unbalanced. I made my own version of it to make it less OP. I hated the vanilla Attila skill trees and found them incredibly boring.
Garrisons in Attila are pretty much non existent so this mod helps with that. Forces you to do actual battles instead of auto resolving every settlement fight. There's a 2x version and others, too.
Fixes the items that are supposed to give +X unit experience on recruit so they now actually do something. Can be seen as OP but units lose XP very quickly on defeat on Attila so it evens out.
Adrian Edwards
>Do you want archers or not? Question is, why get them...
Playing with Orion and grabbing all important tech so far have left me in a position where I can get 9 units recruited on global, Wild Riders take one turn and are under 100g to maintain + my second army guy has 19 Wild Riders in his army for ZERO maintaining cost due to his position on the council.They are great on all fields and they don't have ammo issues.
Literally, why have archers when you can catch up to any unit with Wild Riders + movement bonus.
I just use a few fire arrows archers to fuck over regen and that's like 2-3 per army.
Robert Collins
Why do you not try with the mid that makes all units lords, so that you have replicatable results??
Just have a demi as a Lord vs different unit types, and do the same for the RG.
Caleb Bailey
>talking shit about threads
John Hughes
>to fuck over regen There you go then.
The question of why get them is something only you can answer. Yeah sure all wild riders is probably adequate. Go nuts. Unless you want archers as well. Then get some archers.
Justin Myers
dance-off, bro!
Ethan Long
...
Josiah Butler
I made the thread m8
Gavin Fisher
I'm not sure what modifiers having a unit as a lord give (for example, the "lord is nearby" morale buff), so I didn't want to risk it. I tested both units at the same time at first so one could serve as an anvil for the unit that was cycle charging, but I realized that I had forgotten how to efficiently cycle charge, as the results for the second test may or may not show. Which is why I'm doing a campaign, to try and get a wider sample size.
William Roberts
Warhammer trivia
>Who originally had the Warhammer the setting is named after?
>Name several Chaos deities
>How did the Ogres come to worship their god?
>Why would the Empire's current form of religion be considered heresy by Sigmar?
>Which of the Greenskin races are the most backstabbing?
>What great city did Arkhan raze?
>Who taught the Dwarfs runemagic?
>What is the biggest and only Elven city that allows non-Elfs?
>How far do the Skaven tunnels stretch, and where do they not go?
>Which species inhabited the primordial Warhammer planet before the Old Ones arrived?
>What is the special relationship between Dwarfs, Elfs, Giants, Halflings, Humans, and Ogres?
>How did the Chaos Dwarfs help found the Empire?
Joshua Morgan
I think you're missing the point. It's bad game design if you can spam a powerful until, have low cost of maintaining and just swarm over everything with a few waves of charge.
Having to mix and match your army would be better. HAVING TO, being forced to do so.
As a side note, having just WR armies and charging with some micro is fuuun as fuck.
Owen Long
I needed an excuse to post my funny screenshot
Angel Garcia
That sounds really fucking boring. Wild Riders are a cool unit, but I like to see my eagles fucking people up, and my treeman smashing in the face of some poor enemy lord. I like seeing the hail of magic arrows pelting into the enemy from a mile away out of the edge of the forest. I feel like unless you're doing some sort of challenge run, only going for the most cost effective unit really drains some of the fun out of Total War games.
Jeremiah Cooper
I sure wish the gaijin had given us bayonets right about now
Nathan Sanders
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you have brain damage?
Levi Cruz
What stops you just using tagmata cav in atilla or oathsworn in Rome 2.
You can spam any elite unit in any total war game and win, because the ai never spends that much money on an army.
Chaos is the worst for it just spam Chosen, that is all the mid - end game is and nothing at all can stop you.
Dominic Hill
>all those dead cultures and languages from antiquity never to come back.
Now everyone's either Romance or Arab.
Kevin Gray
G O B L I N S
Eli Brooks
I could ask you the same thing considering your response
Mason Kelly
It's inescapable game design, enough synergies for enough things exist that there will always be one thing you can spam over others that will be more effective than other options. In singleplayer.
In multiplayer unit price doesn't get fucked with so that's fine.
Andrew Mitchell
...
Justin Morgan
alright folks, beginning an all-traditional fots campaign with the aizu, anything I should know?
I have already conquered the province you start out at war with, but I'm thinking of doubling back north to capture the buddhist shrine province just north of your capital for the charge bonus
Luke Campbell
>no sci-fi galaxy colonization, where each colony ship is mindwiped and instead indoctrinated with a dead culture for each planet
Nathaniel Price
how do you disengage cavalry without suffering major losses? you get a deep charge and they end up getting stuck in and cant disengage without taking a lot of damage
Parker Campbell
>ywn live on the alani planet, ridding your steed through the great plains of grass covering the surface whilst talking to your lover in an indo-european language before making sweet love under the stars
feels bad man
Mason Hernandez
I wonder why people like the Alani so much. Is it that they're the only non-malevolent horsefuckers?
Levi Martinez
>Sigmar >Tzeench, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Malal, Great Horned Rat >They got hungry >He doesn't want to be worshipped? >Night Goblins? >Khemri? I don't know >Grungni? >I don't remember much about the High Elves >Skaven? >Old Ones, the most generic fucking name in fantasy >I don't know >Can't remember
I only answered this because it's 4am and I can't sleep.
Ian Morales
Who would win? Hannibal or Ceaser?
Caleb Carter
>100 bestigors per regiment >15 minotaurs per regiment >gay chevron mod
is this some gay radious mod fuck off idiot
Noah Robinson
movin to this thread then
Should I play Napoopan or Empire? Also what mods to get?
Brody Thomas
Is this just the difficulty I'm on or what, because this is ridiculous I didn't even have a chance
Alexander Ross
Play the better of two games.
Adam Torres
Which would be?
Noah Gutierrez
fall of the samurai
Jonathan Howard
...
Liam Barnes
I'm imagining space colonisation where each country gets their own planet and we get New Constantinople and each culture blossoms in their own world.
Harsh reality is the only colonies will be from nations that can afford space flight and have the right launch sites to do it from. I can't wait to visit New New York!
Hudson Davis
fots I find its way better to turtle for a while and just research stuff and try not to get involved in any wars. You can get a decent warchest up, have way better stuff than your enemies, and they waste gold upgrading stuff for you to just come in and take it. if you wait like 20 turns or so, they all have upgraded the fortress pretty nicely and it saves you a bunch of money.
also navies are the most important thing in this game, lone bombarding ships will absolutely wreck your economy and trade routes, so always try to get a good blockade going and never choose the american mission when you aren't right next to it and can defend it.
Ethan Robinson
Nah, it's SFO with skulls for chevron
No need to get mad
Kayden James
The image I posted.
Zachary White
is the last roman fun
Daniel Richardson
I haven't played it but Roman horde sounds fun. And your character is based. If you can stand being a cuck.
Julian Young
Would a Witcher: Total War work well? Several established regions and factions with a Hun like invasion from the South endgame.
Julian Sanchez
Heh, I've always imagined a planet dominated by the Greco-Roman culture.
Logan Perry
Has anyone done this?
Caleb Cox
>If you can stand being a cuck
t. Procopius
Christopher Taylor
It would be a pretty small faction roster, and a lot of embellishment would be needed unit wise.
Aaron Harris
There arent that many factions to play as and it would feel just like Medieval 2 but with some mages here and there
Michael Nelson
and mods?
Jaxson Reed
Roman hordes are fun, but you have to be everywhere at once if you want to complete all the objectives
Dylan Morales
Playing Unreal Tournament has gotten Space-Egyptians into my head far before ancient aliens and stuff. So that's my top pick.
Space-oriental is pretty cool too.
I had a dream once, It was this cool binary planet system, I caught a ferry straight up into the air and landed on the other planet. Landed in this gargantuan palace with 100 meter tall jade pillars and shit. Got met at the imperial spacedock by the Empress herself, who apparently I knew. She was some 11/10 half-asian dealio. She practically dragged me into the bedroom. I told her to slow the fuck down so I could look around and appreciate the architecture, which I did so until I woke up.
I'm a warhammer baby about to start R2 What am I in for lads?
Andrew Martin
Far less satisfying cavalry. Far more satisfying infantry. Romans.
Who are you going to play?
Benjamin Jones
A shit UI
Brody Martin
...
James Bennett
Building choices actually mattering instead of 'do i make money or units here'
PIKES
Romans and carthage dying by turn 30
Alexander Gonzalez
Anyone got the Attila roll chart? I want to play Warhammer but the broken Wood Elves just take all the fun out of it
Cameron Brown
how did the 'skaven are just a myth' meme come about?
Parker Carter
>play syracuse >carthage declares on me turn 1
Brandon Rogers
>girl begging for sex >would rather go look at culture and cool buildings and shit sounds like we have a true understander right here
Blake Morales
I personally find the cavalry much more satisfying in Rome 2, but the cav in Rome 1 is exponentially more satisfying than that even. Infantry thing is correct One of the coolest timeframes >PIKES This cannot be overstated, pikes are ridiculous
Since you haven't played the old TW games, you're in for a treat with this one
Ayden Myers
BRETONNIA WHEN?
How much longer until I can slay knaves in the name of the Lady?
Jace Ross
tfw you pass Veeky Forums membership test ...
Joseph Wilson
The fact that they're not in the game at all, and often don't show up for long periods in the history of the world despite pretty much being the ultimate evil if Chaos didn't get death-avoiding mary sues.
The lore explanation is that they send rat ninjas and shit to kill witnesses and burn records and all sorts of shit to forget that they exist.
So it's a bit of a theme of their lore. But obviously those tactics are more reasonable against humans, stunties are always getting their shit stomped by rats so they obviously don't forget the Skaven exist.
So it's a half lore half developer meme.
Mason Garcia
You're gonna need more mirrors for this
Joseph Baker
Building taxes aren't all that thrilling user. Even in Attila its just a spreadsheet of make the numbers net +. Once you do arithmetic or google its just a starcraft build order. Always suprised me how -1 squalor lead to bubonic plauge after a turn.
Jace Nguyen
SKAVEN WHEN? literally the coolest faction second only to Tomb Kangz
Mason Powell
I want to burn down carthage and become Pharoh as a roman.
Jace Ward
>implying man-sized rats are a real thing
jesus man, I knew peasants were retarded, but this is brettonian-level stupidity. Get your shit together citizen - what are you an averlander?
Hunter Smith
Second to KANGZ and Frogs.
Christopher Gutierrez
>vandals
Thomas Peterson
these guys any good?
Oh man I really hated that campaign. Get ready for the ai to turn up the heat seeking doomstacks to 11
Parker Fisher
Are there any mods that add more provinces to either Empire or Napoleon? That is by far the biggest downfall of either game. Much more so Empire though.
Wyatt Taylor
Yari Ki are pretty fast shock cav that will kill enemy cav too. I use them and can't find a reason not to.
Liam Barnes
>this fucking comp
Levi Phillips
>attacking Have fun bucko
Sebastian Evans
didn't cap post battle screen, but here are the results
wooden cannons are shite
Xavier Gonzalez
Line infantry and hella cannons and you took that few losses? How is that even possible? Did your cav do most of the work or what?
Grayson Phillips
>raining >cav push flanks and hit cannons, cause ai to reform line and attempt to counter cav >yari kachi frontline advances during this confusion >enemy barely gets any time to shoot thanks to rapid advance >cav memes all over unsupported line infantry >levy spears shove their big peasant yari down general's throat
Joshua Reed
>set up pikeman to block a street >dudes just press up against a wall and slip past it I don't know how the AI can do these things but fuck up in other fucking rudimentary ways
Noah Lopez
been a bit since I posted screenshots.
Adam Lewis
...
Eli Jackson
you need to go wider - typically the game will let you drag a formation as wide as possible before freaking out - you need to make the formation as wide as the game lets you
