/dsg/ - Demon's and Dark Souls General

DaS2 takes "quantity over quality" to heart

What emote is that?

Short answer: no.
Not against anyone who can press a botton to roll. And knows about it's turning gimmick.
You can try doing affinity + sanctum crossbow, if opponent doesn't know how to properly dodge affinity (which is a fairly hard thing to do) it will be viable. Or HCSM + sanctum crossbow,

By my sword

By my sword! Summon Black Hand Gotthard to get it.

Dex scaling is only 60% of Str scaling, but boosts poison and bleed damage. So if you want to use a dex weapon, infuse it with an element and scale with Fire/Lightning/Magic/Dark instead, OR, infuse it with bleed/poison.

Scaling adds a flat bonus rather than %, so it matters more for lower base attack weapons.

Bonfire ascetics let you advance certain areas to NG+ without having to go there, so they are exceptionally good

Enemies will stop respawning after 12-15 deaths.

Don't try to farm item drops unless you want to burn ascetics. Item drop rates get lower and lower each time you kill an enemy. If you want a drop, use a bonfire ascetic after the enemy stops respawning.

Each time you die, your max health drops. There's a ring in Heide's Tower that limits it to 25%, but without the ring it can reach 50%. Going back to human restores your health.

You can dual wield most weapons through power stance, by having 1.5x the equip requirements for both of them. This has a lot of different movesets, some of which are unique, available.

>sl1 run
>kill Gravetendies and Not Siff
>decide to check the arena
>zero matches

Fucking casual garbage playerbase

I fucking love the Twin Princes Greatsword. The weapon arts fuck with people so much, even if it does minimal damage sometimes.

Could someone explain the 'Defense/ Absorption' stats? What column should I be more concerned about?

The only reason the crossbows were "OP" in that video was because he was quick scoping them against low level players.

won't even find them at SL 25

>Dex scaling is only 60% of Str scaling
I really want to know where this meme started.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16VTSt4YkfppS1YZuK8kYj0WS_Mo4vuNxnGHf2StmQic/edit#gid=2117584104
The best STR scaling weapons go up to 120% STR bonus, the best DEX weapons go up to 100% DEX bonus.

STR weapons tend to have higher base damage, dex weapons have higher counter damage

>Dex scaling is only 60% of Str scaling, but boosts poison and bleed damage. So if you want to use a dex weapon, infuse it with an element and scale with Fire/Lightning/Magic/Dark instead, OR, infuse it with bleed/poison.
That's only true for quality weapons.
>Enemies will stop respawning after 12-15 deaths.
Not if you're in CoC.
>Item drop rates get lower and lower each time you kill an enemy. If you want a drop, use a bonfire ascetic after the enemy stops respawning.
Wut? Was that a result of some test?

So ive been havin a bit of fun playing DS3 gankin in the acrchdragon place. However ive noticed two hackers since doing this. Luckily the first after almost insta killing me ran off a ledge. The second turned invis and nearly killed me but stopped and I black stoned out both were 3 man parties waiting around. This is my first dark souls on PC and my first time pvping as its the end of my NG. Are the odds of finding a hacker usually one in 10? Still lots of fun though and I even hackers wont stop me from unsheathing my katana.

It's the letter.

S dex = minimum 60% of your Dex bonus
S Str = minimum 100% of your Str bonus

There are only a few wepaons that have > 60% dex scaling in DS2.

Weapons that are "C/A" are actually quality. That's ~ 45%/45%

Weapons that are C/C are actually strength. That's ~ 45%/25%

The only dex weapons with higher counter damage are katanas.

It's not a meme, it's in the game, and in the spreadsheet you linked. The vast majority of dex scaling weapons cap out around 70%, with a FEW exceptions (mostly DLC) added that scale up to 100%.

The most important of all: Durability is an actual mechanic in DS2, weapons with low durability WILL break by just doing a single area if you don't deal enough damage per hit, carry a spare or some repair powders

Also, when you infuse a dex weapon, your scaling is moved by the -letter- not by the percentage.

So if you have B scaling in Dex (45%) and you infuse it to get a B scaling in Fth (65%) you just gained an extra 20% scaling for the same level investment.

But B str goes to B fth, from 65% to 65%.

The point where strength scaling weapons tend to become better uninfused (for the same level investment) is about 300-400 elemental defense.

The point where dex weapons become better uninfused is around 500 elemental defense.

>The only dex weapons with higher counter damage are katanas.
And rapiers.

Yes, they were pretty great, but underused

It's not hard to hit people with when you know what you're doing
The sanctum repeating crossbow will very easily hit people through their rolls and chain stun them for 1000+ at close range
The sanctum crossbow will outtrade just about anything
Both crossbow L2s can be immediately used DURING roll recovery causing your spine to twist

I've never seen more people ragequit than when I used them in the arena

So I was playing in Lothric Castle and got invaded by someone called "TheZepe15" who was clearly cheating.

He kept changing colours from purple to white and even followed me into the bossfight where he ganked me and my 3 friends.

This is on PS4 mind you. How do I contact Fromsoft to get him banned?

Nigga I gave you a goddamn spreadsheet.
Zweihander, 55% STR scaling.

Go read through it pure DEX weapons tend to have good DEX scaling
>Ricards 100%
>Loyce GS 100%
>Eleum Loyce 97%
>Monscy 70%
>Blacksteel 100%
>chaos blade 80%
>Alonne swrord 95%

Dedicated dex weapons scale with DEX, they scale slightly lower than STR weapons, but STR weapons have lower counter damage, KUGS has 120% STR scaling but 1.1 counter, Blacksteel has 100% DEX scaling but 1.5 counter

The LETTERS don't mean jack shit, Alonnes starts with S scaling and like 20% DEX scaling, ends with S scaling and 95% DEX Scaling.
I linked the spreadsheet for a reason.

If he wasn't invincible, then he wasn't hacking, but was abusing a bug that allows players to invade boss rooms.

write an email.

Just kidding, suck it up nerd. Exploits exist. Maybe they'll fix it, but probably not.

>literally every axe in the game has the exact same r2 attacks, ranging from the thrall axe to the dragonslayer greataxe
lol dark souls 3 moveset variety sure is something

I remember when I played DS2 and I gave it shit for having so many duplicate weapons with the exact same movesets, but atleast it actually had a bunch of different moves within each weapon category

Did you read your own spreadsheet? It literally is saying what I'm saying. Almost no dex weapons have >50% scaling, while almost every strength weapon does, and almost all the quality weapons have more strength scaling than dex.

You're using a few exceptions (mostly DLC items meant to fix the broken dex scaling) to try and ignore the general trend that almost all dex weapons cap out at 60% scaling, and most of them don't gain counter bonuses. Of the few that do, it's only 10-20% higher for a 20-30% loss in actual damage compared to a strength version of that same weapon.

The letters -do- matter because that is what determines the scaling bonus you get from infusion. Infused dex weapons gain more damage than infused strength weapons, except when the dex weapons have

Use dex weapons for the moveset, not scaling. Infuse them and scale them with Int/Fth Unless they're one of the few excamples with >80% dex scaling, but you have no way of finding that out unless you check them on the spreadsheet because the in-game letters are not equivalent.

Weapons like the claymore are always going to do more damage with strength investment rather than dex investment despite being "quality" weapons because dex is 60% scaling compared to str.

>Sinh is the literal best boss in DaS2
>literally never get summoned for him
life is pain

>the only boss i still get summoned for is fume fag
>they always summon the worthless npc and die to random attacks
soul memory was a mistake

I didn't realize you were a scalie user.

Why did you make me google this you fucking furfag

I recall him being pretty easy honestly. Took me two attempts to beat him, only boss in DaS2 I actually liked because for some reason he wasn't total bullshit to fight.

Dumb ds2 shitter
youtu.be/zKWVDRiczek
Ds2 axe move variety is on par with ds3.

100% is 60% worse than 120%
I maintain, dedicated DEX weapons scale well with DEX and are by no means "60% worse scaling" than STR weapons

>He doesn't know.
ruh-roh.

I solo'd him on ng+ after beating him with summons and feeling bad about it
he's pretty cool because he has no bullshit mechanics or camera freaking out, just nice attacks you need to learn the patterns of

Anyone hosting an fc tonight?
If not I can, my guy is 118 and I don't feel like doing anything else. If not I'll go play Doom 64 or somethin' I need to finish that still.
Which is what I wanted from DaS2 from the first place, no bullshit just a big ass creature to lovingly apply my weapon to and beat down, every other damn NPC bos

wew. I got cut off, every other damn boss flips the fuck out and tracks you immensely. Only boss which felt fair in my opinion and I really enjoyed it. I got hit significantly less than what I usually do, no really the omnipotent tracking, heavy damage you suffer for no reason isn't fun to deal with thanks.

>Never played ds2 here, was crossbow-only viable for pvp?
It was only viable back when avelyn was actually good. After they nerfed it, crossbows became basically the worst crossbows in series. Sanctum can deal a lot of damage per special shot but it's telegraphed as shit, virtually all good players will just avoid it.

Mate, I don't think you understood my point. That video you linked is JUST AXES.

I'm talking about axes AND greataxes.

ds2 doesn't even have a proper black knight greataxe moveset
ds3 has by far the largest amount of actual greataxe moves thanks to warcry r2s and bkga

Anyone on PS4 able to help me move a few things? I will gladly give you a large batch of souls in return for your help!

Of the 6 axes in Dark Souls 1, 4 (Butcher Knife, Gargoyle Tail Axe, Golem Axe, Hand Axe) have a unique moveset

All 5 greataxes in Dark Souls 1 have a unique moveset.

Of the 7 axes in Dark Souls 2, 2 (Dragonslayer Axe and Butcher Knife) have a unique moveset

Of the 9 greataxes in Dark Souls 2, 2 (Crescent Axe, Drakekeeper Greataxe) have a unique moveset.
There are two distinct types of greataxe, double-headed axes that attack horizontally and single-headed greataxes that attack vertically.

Of the 10 axes in Dark Souls 3, not including weapon art, 2 (Butcher Knife, Winged Knight Twin Axes) have a unique moveset

Of the 7 greataxes in Dark Souls 3, not including weapon art, 1 (Black Knight Greataxe) has a unique moveset.

>not including weapon ar
weapon art is a part of a moveset
even more so for axes as it changes r2

I got a PS4 but no DS3 on it.
That doesn't qauntify for much man.

Glad to have this piece of information, user.

>Not if you're in CoC.
CoC is an optional hardmode covenant that's not really relevant to the base game.

Dedicated dex scaling weapons scale well with dex only because that's their only stat.

But they will always scale better when infused, than with dex alone. Strength weapons can do either.

I've found all the Loyce Knights and I still can't beat the Ivory Kang after he goes into Lightsaber Mode.
Why am I so bad at this?

Sorry user but you must be literally awful at this game
ivory king himself feels and fights like a normal enemy, not a boss
he has like 4 moves

>That doesn't qauntify for much man.
except it does
greataxes have two versions of warcry r2, one of which is unique to yhorm's machete
both versions have first and second r2
they also have falling bolt, demonic flare, sharpen and earthen wrath, if it was ds1 or 2 those would be moved to simple r2
small axes have unique warcry on millwood axe, the only quickstep outside of daggers, feast bell and chain spin

>ds1
>extremely short range means high dps potential

>ds2
>extremely short range but still decent dps potential
>has the most retarded parry window in the history of souls games
>everybody complaints about it

>ds3
>extremely short range
>second lowest AR curved sword
>useless weapon art
>smallest parry window
>doesn't work well with infusion
>1handed moveset is useless
>the only redeeming thing about it, the special backward kick, has no invinsibility frames

Besides memeweapons like the wooden hammer, is this the most dissapointing weapon in DS3?

is this the "guess the weapon" game

fuck forgot pic

Greataxes are killed in DS2 if only because ultra greatswords and great hammers are so good.

The only good greataxes are the ones with the faster hammer-like moveset, such as Giant Stone Axe, and Drakekeeper's. Gyrm greataxe has a faster, GS-like moveset, so it might be viable.

Greataxes do have slightly different power stance moves though, I haven't tested them all but there might be other viable weapons because of this.

>What is Elenora

I still cry every time I use it.

>but still decent dps potential
More than decent. Monastery scimitar had that 4 hit 1hr2 combo that did 1000 damage.

>Of the 9 greataxes in Dark Souls 2, 2 (Crescent Axe, Drakekeeper Greataxe) have a unique moveset.

You're forgetting Gyrm Greataxe, Giant Stone Axe, and Black Knight Greataxe, which have unique movesets. BKGA is a shit moveset but it is unique, which makes DS2 overwhelming more diverse.

I think the complaints is that the "unique" movests for DS2 were mostly built using swings from other weapons, instead of having "special snowflake" animations.

I kind of hate weapon arts sometimes. Some of them are definitely great but it's definitely a lazy design crutch. It's like "why give this weapon a unique moveset when you can just copy a WA typically from another weapon category and put it on this one?"

Atleast DS2 made an effort with unique r2 moves on many weapons. Even just the lazy ones that were reused movesets from other categories ended up unique because of the combinations, like red iron weaponry. In DS3 you often just have some reused weapon arts slapped onto weapons instead of having given them some unique moves.
>hey check this out it's literally just a normal greataxe but you can press l2 to increase your damage by 5 wooooaahh
>hey check this out it's literally just a normal greathammer but you can press l2 for a stupid eight-times reused spinny move woaaahhh

Especially the spin bash, spin slash, spin gash shit is so fucking stupid. Take for an example the Spiked Mace. Why does it have that weird spinny move to begin with? Why not give it unique R2 attacks that resemble what the evangelists actually do? Instead they literally just slap a copypasted spin slash move on it and call it spin BASH. Unique R2s? nah look you already have the weapon art. Don't you love SPIN SLASH on literally every weapon?

Plus, and if you're a shitter you will definitely think I'm joking, Greatweapon parries were absolutely fantastic.

>"unique" movests for DS2 were mostly built using swings from other weapons
Then they aren't unique.
Going from DS1 to DS2 was fucking baffling as it lacked even a simple cool unique attacks like golem's axe wind slash.

Pls recommend some fun (and not completely useless) weapons to play with.
DS 3. I'm new. Currently running around with a broadsword.

What is a combo for greataxes, also Drang Maces and Fume UGS?
I think for Fume UGS it's a standard attack jump attack, standard attack charged heavy best I got, the charged heavy buffed with resin can on shot most people for me. Learning to play with a heavy infused Exile GS, it's not too bad but you can't spam the spin to win combo or people will just dodge it, also knight's crossbow off hand is best weapon of all time.

>then they aren't unique

Do you care about weapon diversity, or do you care about feeling special?

Combining moves from other weapons to create a (literally) unique moveset is highly practical. It means that a large number of weapons can be viable based on which individual moves you prefer.

Making a bunch of special animations for each weapon makes them either OP, dogshit, or limits you to spamming the same one or two special moves since the rest of the moves one the weapon are shit. If a unique moveset is really good, then it makes all the 'normal' weapons in that category pointless by comparison.

DS2 has just as many unique movesets as DS1, but it also has twice as many weapons, with the rest of them being practical and useful instead of special flashy animations.

DS1 definitely felt like each weapon was unique in some way, and they often were.
It did have some carbon copies of "standard movesets" like the Gargoyle Halberd, Scythe, and some other halberd I think, but mostly they always had atleast one unique thing about them that made you wanna use it.

Then in DS2, they went down the "2 standard movesets for each weapon category" path, which I really disliked because it made many weapons carbon copies with different stats, but they also introduced some really unique weapons especially with the DLC, so that kind of redeemed it for me.

Meanwhile in DS3 it just feels like
>what's this curved sword do?
>oh... it's spin slash and the default moveset
>how about this one then?
>oh....
>how do these curved greatswords compare?
>oh they're literally the same with slightly different spin slash ending moves which don't matter cause it's a stunlock anyway

>Atleast DS2 made an effort with unique r2 moves on many weapons
it didn't
majority of ds2 moves are simply shared between classes
majority of boss weapon attacks are just generic r2s with elemental effect over them
there's what, 3 truly unique r2s in the entire vanilla ds2? 4?
it has by far the worst problem of recycled animations in all souls games
>Plus, and if you're a shitter you will definitely think I'm joking
YOU are the shitter if you think your stupid ultra weapon parries are even remotely fucking useful and that i can't see them from a mile away and just bs or bitchslap punish the fuck out of you for trying to do them

Red Hilted Halberd, Executionars Greatsword and Bandit Knife are imo fun but not overpowered early game weapons.

Do you care about weapon diversity
I do care about weapon diversity and DS2 has none of it.

DS3 easily has the same amount of unique moves as DS1, possibly higher. It just has larger weapon pool, unnecessary so, i'd say.

>But they will always scale better when infused, than with dex alone

Alright, no
I just soul vesseled myself to have 100 DEX and FAI ATK. Meaning 100% scaling = +100 AR.

Uninfused Blacksteel Katana = 100% DEX
Lightning Blacksteel = 49% DEX, 21% FAI

Ricard's Rapier = 100% DEX
Lightning Ricard's = 37% DEX, 30% FAI

Loyce Greatsword = 5% STR, 100% DEX
Lightning Loyce = +35 phys ??% consistent with other weps, 33% FAI

Why do you believe the scaling grade when it comes to element infusions?
Elemental infusions on average give you 30% element scaling with exceptions for boss weapons / weapons with base element or status.

>wanting every weapon to have special moveset that you have to build your entire character around just to be useful, instead of being able to tweak your play style around how individual useful moves are combined on each single weapon

go back to playing overwatch

>YOU are the shitter if you think your stupid ultra weapon parries are even remotely fucking useful and that i can't see them from a mile away and just bs or bitchslap punish the fuck out of you for trying to do them
Congrats, you must be better at the game than 99% of people I fought in DS2. Plenty of people fell for it and I didn't feel like it was ever particularily easy to punish outside of me just fucking up and missing the parry frame window.

Besides your amazing skill in PvP, you forget that parrying isn't a PvP only tool. Just because you personally never made use of it or apparently never had someone do it to you doesn't mean it has no uses.
If I could pick and chose between the UGS parry and whatever that abomination of a weapon skill spin-stomp is I'd pick the UGS parry every day of the week

>wanting actually unique movesets instead of recycled, disappointing shit
yeah how dare you to want nice things

Why are there so many outright useless and/or outclassed spell tools in souls games?

>doing this with only 100% dex scaling weapons

You missed my point, again, and proved what I said.

>Elemental infusions on average give you 30% element scaling with exceptions for boss weapons / weapons with base element or status.

Most dex weapons have you sacrifice 20-40% dex scaling for that 30-60% faith scaling. The only ones that don't are the ones with insane dex scaling, aka, the few exceptions you keep touting while ignoring the vast majority of other dex weapons in the game.

All you're saying is "Dex scaling is fine because these FEW weapons work like strength weapons! The letters are just not accurate!" when the vast majority of dex weapons are still only 60% scaling for their class compared to str weapons.

Atleast the DS2 DLC had some cool shit.

What does the DS3 DLC have so far?
>check this out. It's literally just a normal greathammer with a normal greathammer moveset, but the weapon art? We "throwbacked" a DS1 move as a weapon art onto it hehe

ds2 has the lowest skill ceiling in series, that's why shitters gravitate towards it as the game with "best" pvp simply because it doesn't require any skill at all and has a duel-friendly environment, it's not surprising that there's a huge amount of garbage players who literally walk into everything you throw into them
>you forget that parrying isn't a PvP only tool
yeah show me your sick ass videos of ugs parries in pve, kek, i want to laugh

Are you disappointed that every gun in a shooter shoots -bullets- instead of shooting sparkles or chickens?

DS3 dlc has friede's greatscythe, crow weapons and valorheart all of which blow the SHIT out of any ds2 dlc weapons including bone fists.

>yeah show me your sick ass videos of ugs parries in pve, kek, i want to laugh
Why do you act like UGS parrying was a gimmick? Why would anyone ever feel the need to take a video of himself parrying an enemy with delayed, but pretty decent parrying frames? You realize the UGS parry was in no way bad, right?

That's why I said "shitters will think I'm joking". It's like you only ever used the dedicated shitter reaction parrying weapons to parry and as a result think everything else is useless.

Yeah, no. Bone fists were fucking amazing.

>DS2 has the lowest skill ceiling in the series

Only because DS1 pvp is entirely built around abusing network lag, and DS3 pvp is built around abusing invasion mechanics. Higher "skill ceilings" don't make for better pvp when those ceilings are just abusing broken mechanics because From focused more on PvE.

good shooter has weapons that behave differently and have unique firing modes
ds2 is like painkiller if painkiller had 4 firing modes shared by all guns in different combinations instead of actually unique attacks and weapon-specific combos
>Why do you act like UGS parrying was a gimmick
because it was you fucking retard, it has such horrible parry frames (worst in the game actually) that you either need a mentally disabled opponent for it to ever connect or some utterly predictable pve enemy

I don't care about your denial. Friede's greatscythe or valorheart blows bone fists the fuck out as far as style and cool moves go.

UGS parries were useful, but stupid because for the same hours of practice doing a parry shield + soft/hard swap to a UGS was more efficient than trying to actually land a UGS parry.

Most of the time the UGS parry doesn't work because they think you're doing an attack, so they roll instead of trying to trade. It is, by design, just not a very effective pvp tactic and requires many more hours to master than other equivalent techniques.

UGS should have had special moves instead of parry animations, like Fume UGS or Curved Nil Greatsword.

In DS2, is it worth it to put a ton of points into Vitality so you can wield ultra greatswords and such and not fatroll? Or even put a ton more in to wield good armor like the drangelic set.

I did this test with 100% pure dex weapons because it's far easier to tell the scaling % when you only have one physical scaling.

>for that 30-60% faith scaling
Exactly what dexterity weapons get anything near 50% element scaling? Can you name some?

>All you're saying is "Dex scaling is fine because these FEW weapons work like strength weapons!
All you're saying is that low scaling high base damage weapons are better infused. Who could've thought?

Have some more examples.

29 STR, 29 DEX, 29 FAI, 100 ATK in each
Partizan - 10% STR, 65% DEX - +75 phys
Lightning Partizan - +28 phys, +30 light, 30% FAI

Dagger - 15% STR, 45% DEX, +60 phys
Lightning Dagger - +23 phys, +30 light, 30% FAI

The results are actually MORE consistent for non-100% DEX weapons.

because from has no imagination and sees spelltools as only a means to an end, that end being the spells. so they only really care for base magadj and scaling, rather than making each tool somewhat unique in a meaningful way. but they're progressing. ds1 had nothing other than damage. even with the dlc, the only thing that changed were the damage calculators. in ds2, catalyst length and speed came in play, but they still didnt make much difference; it was just advantages and disadvantages to be taken notice. some uniqueness is progressively added, with weapons like blue flame (and its neutered version in ds3) and ds3's parting flame

Why do you keep implying that weapons with 30% DEX scaling are DEX weapons?

This is the core of the issue, nobody else considers them DEX weapons, DEX scaling is worse for Quality weapons sure, but it's not worse for DEX weapons.

An axe with 50% STR scaling and 25% DEX scaling isn't a DEX weapons so it's irrelevant when considering how good DEX scaling is.

>because it was you fucking retard, it has such horrible parry frames (worst in the game actually)
Are you fucking dumb? See pic related. Perfectly average parry frames.

They have long recovery and startup frames. That's because great weapon parries weren't for reaction parrying. You could consistently set up parry with them.
Another feature is that people never see it coming. You walk around with a parry tool in your offhand, people will adjust. You walk around with a big fat twohanded Zweihander, they tend to be less careful unless they know you will do it.

Honestly you can flaunt your amazing PvP skill here as much as you want, everyone who has used great weapons to parry knows it's not a joke feature. It's perfectly viable and it's not used in the same way as rapier parrying.

DS2 is like having 20 rifles, 20 shotguns, 20 pistols, etc.

But they range in size, firing speed, velocity, etc. and some share bullets between them and some have different firing modes.

Meanwhile you want special snowflake weapons like overwatch that have special animations and effects, resulting in most of them being just dogshit "cool" designs that have no practical use in the game.

>those monastery scmitar frames
not him but this is outdated as fuck user

This. Ultra weapon parries are for masters of the game that can predict and bait their opponents entirely, know when they're going to attack.
It's satisfying, surprisingly easy, feels good.

Let's not forget super parries that come out something like 20% faster after an attack. Fucking loved parrying backsteppers.