So i'm finally getting ready to start my business. I don't want to use my real name, though. I want keep my personal and business relations separate.
I've found out the best way to do this is to setup a DBA for my "pen name" to redirect to my real name and SSN. Judging from what I see, however,it only applies to businesses itself, and not individuals. Many sites say it could be done, but i'm having trouble finding how I can do it in my state (NYC).
So how do you think I should do it, Veeky Forums? Do you think I should do it? Would it, perhaps, severe ties with people if I were to ever use my real name? Have any of you done it?
I'm a DBA. all you do is get your business license in your business name. Business checking account in your business name, insurance in your business name, business cards in your business name, advertising in your business name, etc.
then when you need to report income for taxes you just give clients the full legal name and ssn. E.g., "Bob Smith dba BobbyJohn's Fellatio Services."
the IRS doesn't care what your business name is, so you actually just pay taxes by filing a Schedule C with your real name and SSN, deducting whatever biz expenses you had.
Other than that it doesn't really matter. Most businesses in the US are sole proprietorships, not corporations. Most of those are DBA's. Business types will know you're a DBA just because there's no "LLC" or "Inc" or whatever after your biz name.
The only real benefit gained from having a DBA aside from your business name being cooler than your real name is it's relatively easy to transfer or sell the thing. Today you may own your business, but if you want to sell it all you have to do is sign the checking account over to someone else and they go get a license in your former business name and it's a done deal.
Easton Gonzalez
>it only applies to businesses itself, and not individuals legally the individual IS the business when there's only one owner.
so a DBA is usually erected by an individual, not a parent company. Not always, just that's the most common situation. A single individual doing business in a different name.
Aiden Fisher
Think of it like this,
You can do business as yourself (your social security number) or you can create an entity like an LLC(tax ID number).
You can file for a fictitious name("Doing business as") for either.
You will not have any protection without an LLC or Corp.
Carter Sanders
>You will not have any protection without an LLC or Corp that's actually what liability insurance is for. Veeky Forums doesn't own businesses though so you don't really know this stuff.
LLC's with one owner have no legal protection that isn't covered by insurance.
Austin Martinez
bump
David Torres
Dude just make an LLC. It's easy, simple, and better than a DBA.
That's what I did.
Gavin Howard
it does provide protection from liability, but you get the same protection from liability insurance. So assuming your LLC is required to carry liability insurance anyways you've gained nothing. It doesn't even drop your insurance costs since the insurer doesn't care if they're covering you or your LLC for the same risks, it costs the same to them.
It does have tax benefits in specific situations, primarily if you're wealthy. But that's why most people don't incorporate until they're wealthy enough to benefit from it.
An LLC is useful if you have personal assets you want to protect from business liability, but we're on a board where most people don't even own a house, let alone assets that could be seized in a lawsuit or bankruptcy.
Matthew Rogers
The correct answer is:
A DBA isn't a form of business. Its actually just a set of regulations designed to curb fraud by requiring disclosure, in certain circumstances, of an enterprises' true owner. DBA rules can apply to a sole proprietorship, C Corp, S Corp, LLC, partnership, LLP, or even a trust.
Hudson Perez
OP didn't ask what a dba is, he asked how to set one up.
Jose Taylor
>he asked how to set one up As I said, it's not a "thing" that one sets up. It's a filing that one makes after one chooses the form of their business enterprise and if they decide to operate it under a pseudonym, and even then only if required by state law.
Kayden Diaz
ah, I see you're giving 'advice' on something you've never done.
thanks.
Jayden Perez
So I'm correct, you have no response, but you think you're some clever twat? Fuck off, kid.
Eli Thompson
you clearly didn't read the thread.
I don't need to respond to you, the first post itt is me explaining how to set up a DBA.
I enjoyed watching you fail though.
Blake Morgan
>LLCs with one owner have no legal protection that isn't covered by insurance.
What? Laws vary by state. Also, LLCs have members not owners.
>an LLC is a waste of time unless you want to protect assets like you house, business and life savings.
Are you a fucking retard
Pot meet kettle
Josiah Miller
*1651966
Grayson Allen
THIS
Thomas Hughes
fuck off matthew
Andrew Hill
I don't get it?
Nathan Gray
>how to set up a DBA You can't set up a DBA, moron. It's not a form of enterprise.
As I explained, a DBA is a filing you make regarding the name of your enterprise, whatever form it might be.
I'm sorry that you don't know this, and that you feel foolish about being wrong. But now that the correct answer has been posted, its time for you to go away.
Chase Rivera
you do have to set it up since you need to know who to give which name to.
as I said, the IRS uses your real name. Advertisers, vendors, your bank and your business cards use your business name. Your business name also generally goes on your business license.
When you fill out your W-9 you use both names, the same as you would when filing a DBA with your state if that's required.
you need to know which tax forms to file and which names to give various entities. >whatever form it might be. you don't know which forms because you've never done it. >you feel foolish about being wrong. But now that the correct answer has been posted, its time for you to go away. so much projecting. buzz off, kid.
Nicholas Rogers
>you do have to set it up since you need to know who to give which name to. There's nothing to set up. Doing the DBA filing isn't setting anything up. It's just a public record filing of an alternate name for purposes of minimizing fraud.
I don't why you insist on talking about stuff that you don't understand, but please stop giving people bad information. Every single post you've made has been wrong, as I've pointed out time after time.
Jace Powell
>LLC's with one owner have no legal protection that isn't covered by insurance. That is objectively incorrect. An llc makes it so you can not be sued for your personal assets (assuming you arn't mingling assets/out right doing illegal shit)
Insurance is just there to pick up the tab if you get sued. You should llc or scorp, and have insurance.
Blake Torres
I see you've never incorporated a business either.
it's cool. we get it. You have never owned a business.
Nolan Turner
>An llc makes it so you can not be sued for your personal assets of course not.
it makes it so you can't be sued for your personal assets UNLESS the tort results from your own wrongdoing or negligence.
if you're the sole owner then the tort almost certainly resulted from your wrongdoing or negligence.
Joseph Brown
Actually I own an S Corp and operate my own business. I've also worked in the legal field. I have more experience in this that you, as prove by the fact that everything you;ve said is wrong.
Stop throwing a tantrum kid.
Oh for fucks sakes, stop. If you're acting in your capacity on behalf of the enterprise, you're going to get the protections afforded by the enterprise.
There's plenty of reasons why a single member LLC offers fewer protections than other enterprise forms, but your explanation is 100% wrong.
Just go away already.
Jose Cox
>Actually I own an S Corp and operate my own business. sure you do, kiddo.
if you did you'd know that all business entities are just regulations to pay taxes or prevent fraud, and that setting up a corporation doesn't differ materially from setting up a proprietorship dba.
you're playing semantics because I made you feel stupid again.
you are stupid. get over it.
Alexander Ross
>setting up a corporation doesn't differ materially from setting up a proprietorship dba >a proprietorship dba >a proprietorship dba Things That Don't Exist for $1000, Alex.
First, you don't set up a sole proprietorship (which is the name, not what you wrote). There's nothing to set up. Second, you don't setup a DBA, as I've explained three time already.
Every post you've made in this thread is shitty and wrong. I honestly don't understand how someone can be so ill-informed and so intent on proving his ignorance all at the same time. I'll have to guess that you're either trolling poorly, or that you're a moderately-functional retard.
Jace Hill
>There's nothing to set up except a business license, filing with the state, business checking, accounts with vendors and clients.
just like setting up a corporation.
I get it, you're pretending a dba isn't a business form because it's just a set of laws and forms.
unfortunately for your stupid self ALL BUSINESS FORMS are just sets of laws and forms.
if you've proven that DBA's don't exist as legal entities and can't be set up then you've done the same for corporations.
Cooper Carter
No, it's pretty clear you're not talking about business regulations as they pertain to the U.S.
William Flores
>The court will pierce the veil when the LLC is being used to do something illegal or if there is no real distinction between the owners and the LLC. So if an owner commits fraud while acting as an officer for the LLC and then seeks to use the liability shield to protect himself from being personally liable, a court will generally not permit that. This issue also arises if the owner interacts with someone on behalf of the LLC but does not make that clear to the third party; if the third party brings suit related to that interaction, the owner can be named as a defendant.
>except a business license, filing with the state, business checking, accounts with vendors and clients. You literally need none of that for a sole proprietorship if you use your own name.
>I get it, you're pretending a dba isn't a business form because it's just a set of laws and forms. A DBA is a convenience for sole proprietors. "Sole proprietor" is the business form, the DBA is a legal notice that you're using a name different from your own for your business.
>if you've proven that DBA's don't exist as legal entities and can't be set up then you've done the same for corporations. Holy fuck you are retarded! The entire purpose of corporations are that they are legal entities separate from the owners. Please kill yourself.
Justin Campbell
>The corporate veil is usually pierced if the creditor can show that the corporation or LLC was a shell created only to provide liability protection for its owners or the company was practically inseparable from or an alter ego of its owners. >Courts will be more likely to pierce the corporate veil if: >Corporate formalities, such as holding annual meetings and keeping minutes, were not followed. >Certain owners exerted too much control over the corporation or LLC. >Owners commingled personal funds with company funds or used personal funds to satisfy company obligations. >The company was not sufficiently capitalized when it was formed.
>except a business license, filing with the state, business checking, accounts with vendors and clients. Some of those are requirements for operation, and differ depending on your country, state, and city. The accounts you can do however you want, including using your personal accounts. Not recommended, but stop pretending that you have to do all these things.
None of these have anything to do with setting up a corporation, which requires articles of incorporation and filing with the Secretary of State.
You're one of those annoying people who know 5% of a subject and then pretend -- loudly and incorrectly -- that you know everything. What a fucking embarrassment.
Nathan Lewis
>You literally need none of that for a sole proprietorship if you use your own name. so you think sole proprietors don't need business licenses? I'll notify my city and state of your findings.
>The entire purpose of corporations are that they are legal entities separate from the owners and you think a legal entity that's the same as the owner doesn't count, is that it?
no registration required? no papers to file with anyone?
Jacob Rogers
>stop pretending that you have to do all these things. you absolutely have to if you're a DBA.
Eli Hughes
>so you think sole proprietors don't need business licenses? Most businesses don't business licenses. It all depends on your industry, your location, and your customers (retail versus non-retail). Stop pretending the rules are black and white or universal, when they clearly are not.
>you absolutely have to if you're a DBA. Huh? I've said four times in the thread that a DBA is a name filing and four times you've said I was wrong and that its a form of business creation. Now you agree with me. What a fucking basketcase you are.
Samuel James
>Most businesses don't business licenses. we're talking the US here. You need a license. >and four times you've said I was wrong and that its a form of business creation No, I said it needs to be set up.
you read that as a form of business creation but you haven't defined what you mean by that. We agree that you have to file forms with various agencies and people to do it, you're just pretending it's not a form of business because none of those forms are articles of incorporation. Which is amusing, but meaningless semantics.
Lucas Robinson
>we're talking the US here. You need a license. So if I choose to become a freelance writer, I need a license? Show me the law. A website designer needs a license? Show me the law. Sell crafts on Etsy? Show me the law. Business consultant? Show me the law. App developer. Show me the law. Wedding planner? Show me the law.
You are wrong. 100% provably, demonstrably wrong. Just fucking stop.
>none of those forms are articles of incorporation God you're dumb. Only corporations have article of incorporation. LLCs and LLPs have member agreements. Partnerships have partnership agreements. Sole proprietorships have nothing.
You literally have no fucking clue what you're talking about. So why do you keep posting?
Aaron Rivera
Fuck off you goddamned retard. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If you are a sole proprietor, you have no employees, and your business isn't covered under regulations such as food, alcohol, etc, then LITERALLY all you have to do is file the appropriate tax forms. That is it.
If you want an assumed name (a DBA, which is literally just a legal alias for your business) then you have to file with some local government agency and usually give notice in newspapers for some time.
>you read that as a form of business creation but you haven't defined what you mean by that. That's because everyone here who isn't a moron knows these things are already legally defined and therefore unambiguous.
>why do you keep posting? because I find it amusing that you think only businesses that are distinct legal entities need set up.
that something is not set up if it doesn't produce a legal entity.
it's a funny mistake for someone that pretends to own a business to make, even while denying it by acknowledging that you have to file forms to do it. >You can't set up a DBA, you just have to file forms I don't know about and tell people things I'm not remembering. funny stuff.
Elijah Garcia
>then you have to file with some local government agency and usually give notice in newspapers for some time. so you don't have to get a business license or tell your clients, vendors, and banks what your name is?
got it.
the newspaper thing is bullshit I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Benjamin Morris
>you don't have to get a business license or tell your clients, vendors, and banks what your name is? They try to guess your name.
Nathan Williams
I just gave you a dozen examples of businesses that don't require licenses and your only response is to argue that some do? Are you literally brain damaged?
You said >You need a license. I proved that you do not, in many cases. Why are you still arguing, fag?
>I find it amusing that you think only businesses that are distinct legal entities need set up. And I find it sad that you don't understand that I'm right. Whatever education you had was a miserable failure.
Go back to /r9k/ or whatever board you call home. Adults are talking here.
>I find it sad that you don't understand that I'm right. no, I get it. you're absolutely right IF AND ONLY IF "set up" is equal to "incorporate."
of course it's not, so you're not right. But it's an interesting blind spot to have. Like I said, Veeky Forums fetishizes the legal entity.
I set up a tent once, does that piss you off? Will you get mad if I tell you I set up a model railroad? What are the allowed uses of the term, "set up"?
you're a moron. Hopefully you're cute.
Jace Barnes
>sba.gov You can keep repeating the same post over and over if you want, but you still got #btfo. You claimed that all businesses require a license and I proved you wrong.
Post it again, I dare you.
>incorporate Incorporation is the formation process for corporations (what kind if idiot doesn't know this?) and doesn't apply to other business forms. You can't incorporate a LLP or a partnership.
But you'll probably argue otherwise, because every other statement you've made in the thread has been wrong.
>Hopefully you're cute Stop pretending that you're trolling. You're trying to be serious, and you're just really, really stupid.
Brody Garcia
I think is legit a bot. It barely makes sense and keeps linking to random websites that have business-related terms in the URL.
Nathaniel Lee
>Post it again, I dare you. >Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit to operate legally. >Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit to operate legally.
>Virtually every business >needs some form of license or permit to operate legally.
>You can't incorporate a LLP or a partnership. or a tent or a model railroad. or a DBA or a sole proprietorship.
you can set them up though.
Angel Reed
you're losing this badly to a bot?
well shit, son.
Asher Williams
Bot confirmed.
Ryder Russell
You may be right. It does sound like a bot. It keeps posting the same link every time, even when it makes no sense.
Nathaniel Harris
>it makes no sense. you said, >Most businesses don't business licenses you missed a word there, but I think we can both agree that "most" means more than half.
I posted a government link stating >Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit in direct contradiction to what you said.
then you tried to pretend a few exceptions don't prove the rule.
also fun, but not particularly productive since it ignores your initial claim that DBA's can't be set up.
or your claim that I'm a retard that should kill himself for disagreeing with your omniscient ass. Or my claim that you're a moron but hopefully you're at least cute.
Zachary Richardson
are you a bot? because I'm often disappointed with how stupid the average user here is.
I guess if you're a bot that would explain it. Write better bots, assholes.
Nicholas Hill
Beep beep, boop boop. The bot is stuck in a loop caused by faulty data.
Andrew Nelson
>You can't set up a DBA, moron. It's not a form of enterprise >only forms of enterprise can be set up >nothing can be set up that isn't a form of enterprise
I think we both know how stupid you sound by now.
You're welcome.
Henry Ortiz
Beep beep, boop boop. Garbage in, garbage out.
Logan Walker
I once fucked a girl so hard she started making cat noises.
Everyone who has posted in this thread has told you that you are dumb as a courtesy. I will go ahead and contribute to the list of people pointing out that you are clearly, objectively wrong but also that you obviously won't accept that. Thanks for playing.
Liam Powell
ah, a new contestant or just the samefag?
so tell me, why can't you set up a DBA? can you set up a tent? can you set up a round of drinks? but you magically can't set up a DBA?
let's hear it. Clearly, objectively.
James Richardson
rekt
Jayden Garcia
I have no idea what you mean by "set up" or "business license".
But I've been in business for almost a decade, been involved in a few different ventures, currently manage 7 figures worth of investments, and keep general counsel on retainer at all times.
a DBA is filed. A corporation is incorporated. An LLC is formed. You are a retard.
Jaxon Perez
>correct me if I'm wrong. You're very wrong. In fact, in my state if you don't have notice of incorperation or formation you will not be afforded any of the protections.
James Carter
OK user, let's settle this once iand for all:
>"Articles of incorporation" are to C-corp/s-corp
And
>"articles or organization" are to LLCs
As
>"________" are to Sole proprietorships I left DBA out because if you still think a DBA is an entity you should probably jump in front of a train.
Juan Reyes
What is that supposed to prove?
Like we said. If laws and rules are followed llc and corps offer more protection.
There is no reason not to use one when you set up a business.
Gavin Powell
>I have no idea what you mean by "set up" yes, that's the point of the whole thing. what did OP mean when he said "set up?"
you fucking faggots are ridiculous. What does "set up" mean?
>in my state if you don't have notice of incorperation or formation you will not be afforded any of the protections what protections? did you even read the comment? >What is that supposed to prove? that an LLC doesn't protect a sole owner from personal liability for their wrongful actions on behalf of the LLC. It also hints strongly that a solely owned LLC won't stand up in court particularly if it's a pseudonym for the owner or exists solely to deflect liability from the owner. >There is no reason not to use one when you set up a business yet millions of people smarter than the average user choose to skip it.
Joseph Powell
>what did the OP mean by setup
He meant file, I just told you that.
Bottom line is single member LLCs and single owner Corps are not the same thing as sole props, including when it comes liabilities.
In fact, your assertation would require you to have knowledge of corporate law in all 50 states.
Get off google and go ask an actual lawyer.
Noah Garcia
>He meant file, I just told you that. then why did he say "set up" and not "file"?
Especially when there's no DBA filing in most states?
>Bottom line is single member LLCs and single owner Corps are not the same thing as sole props, including when it comes liabilities They are exactly the same thing if the LLC is just a pseudonym for the owner or exists solely to deflect liability from the owner.
both of which are true of everything Veeky Forums thinks of when they discuss LLC's. >why get a LLC? >it protects from liability if that's why you have one, it doesn't work.
Alexander Phillips
What you're describing is someone who does things like: commingle funds, not have an operating agreement, etc.
I should be no surprise that someone who is operating illegitimately could have their corporate viel pierced.
Google asset protection for SMLLC. Perfect example, DE is probably the most popular place for business in the world and single member LLCs abosolutely are protected.
I get it, you're some know it all kid with no assets. So your lawyer(or Reddit) told you to just get a decent policy. But objective reality is you are full of shit.
Hunter Rodriguez
>I get it, you're some know it all kid with no assets so out of curiosity, do you ascribe the fact that sole proprietorships are the most common form of business in existence to ignorance?
how do you feel knowing most business owners flat out disagree with you?
Most successful business owners with significant assets are on my side, at least in my state.
Ian Perry
the thread isn't about LLC's. It's about how to set up a sole proprietorship DBA.
I'm just arguing LLC on the side with you because you can't read and fell for the Veeky Forums LLC meme.
Isaac Allen
>Most successful business owners with significant assets are on my side, yes, that's what I said.
if you don't have significant assets you have nothing for a LLC to protect.
Eli Reyes
>Not an argument I wasn't arguing.
I was asking you how it makes you feel when most people with the intelligence and gumption to start a business don't agree with you.
how do you explain that to yourself in the dark hours of the night? do you just try to ignore it? do you tell yourself they're stupid? or they haven't heard of LLC's?
Nathan Mitchell
My lawyer charges $350 an hour. I think I'll take his advice over yours.
Also the link I posted has the information for single member LLCs broken down by state. If anything you fell for the "SMLLCs are a waste meme". Go back to red dit
Angel Roberts
>I think I'll take his advice over yours. I wasn't offering you advice.
but I'm not surprised your lawyer advises you to do something that results in him getting paid more.
>If anything you fell for the "SMLLCs are a waste meme". the vast majority of business owners have. how does that compute in your little head?
Jonathan Miller
I'll tell you what I think about most business owners being sole proprietors:
I think they have no assets to protect that aren't already protected under bankruptcy laws, and I think they find liability insurance affords the exact same protections as an LLC but with lawyers to defend you included in the cost.
that's what I think. and I think in those situations an LLC is a waste of time and money.
and I think most of Veeky Forums would meet those criteria.
Adam Lopez
Agreed.
But that's not what you said and it varies by state. And not everyone on /biz is a pleb.
Jordan Bailey
>But that's not what you said see it is exactly what I've been saying.
>not everyone on /biz is a pleb. true, but OP asking how to set up a DBA probably has no assets to protect.
James James
>OP probably has nothing to protect
Sounds like a projection
Hunter Williams
It's more of a hope. if you're asking financial and legal advice from Veeky Forums I HOPE you don't have any assets to protect.
Brayden Jenkins
Kek. Best post you've made in this thread.
Wyatt Perez
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. You're going to have to talk to an expert, do your own research, or start a thread a different time and hope it goes better.
What state is OP in anyways? You should check out your state's small business administration website or start at sba.gov and go from there.
I'm partially convinced this thread is a single troll fucking with people, so yeah... please don't trust this thread.
Noah Morris
I told OP what he needs to know in the first post.
I'm not trolling, Veeky Forums has a lot of false beliefs about the unstoppable powers of LLC's is all.
Parker Hernandez
>I'm not trolling And you still don't know that a DBA is a form, not a form of enterprise. Kek.
Blake Cooper
>you still don't know that a DBA is a form, not a form of enterprise. I never claimed it was or was not a form of enterprise.
I merely pointed out to you over a great number of posts that it doesn't matter.
something doesn't need to be a form of enterprise to be set up.
Ayden Cooper
>something doesn't need to be a form of enterprise to be set up I agree. You were set up for failure in life due to your low IQ and poor genetics.
And you apparently still don't know that a DBA is a form, not a form of enterprise, and you're still too stupid to know that this is precisely the topic of the thread.
Jack Garcia
see, now this is trolling.
insults and straw men. A winning combination proven time and again on Veeky Forums.
Gavin Perry
It's not an insult when it's true. And when its clever as well, it serves a purpose.
Must be odd to have so much in life go over your head. You're like a dog attending a TED Talk.
