Will Teslafags be BTFO when major automakers start getting in on the electric car market?

>wanting sanitary silent electric motors in a muh feels sports car

Faraday a shit

possibly, tesla has a massive lead and even with another major automaker aiming for them (chevy bolt) it doesnt have the same appeal, not even close

>They said Tesla was vaporware
How can it be vaporware when they are literally selling cars?

yo that fitment tho. porsche is top tier as fuck

Probably because major car manufactures know how to make cars.

im thinking that most of the r and d costs have been negated by the development of teslas..

so other manufacturers have to do less r and d on the electric battery side.

rather just developing the driving characteristics to suit the needs of the car..

they have a good base to "borrow" from.

interestingly most of the euro manufactures have not gone the way of all electric just yet, for some reason.

it makes no difference to tesla in the long run, they have developed a product that has also lead to alternative uses in other markets.

as long as they keep improving and innovating they have a real chance at becoming a worldwide brand..

serious contender.

way to go burgers, dont kill the thing.

By 2030 econoboxes will be all electric or hybrid ICE and sports cars will be ICE for muh feels. Which is great.

>electric cars

Yes

Tesla is already BTFO in terms of technology and speed by the Rimac.

Forgot Pic

Not BTFO but there will be competition for sure, all major car companies are moving towards electric cars.

the best looking electric car currently imo
really gorgeous

Battery cars are never gonna make it, ever. When I studied automotive engineering, all my professors were laughing at the idea of powering cars with rechargable batteries that weigh tons and need to be replaced at least every 10 years and can't be recycled. Now in the field nothing really changed, there's no real plans to switch any model to purely electric, because feasibility is just not even on the horizon. Almost all electric cars are concepts or city cars, but nowhere near a replacement. There's actually a lot more focus on hydrogen fuel cells and developing a new catalyst that allows the reaction to be stable and efficient at under 700°C. At least at the manufacturer I'm working for.

When I see what's on the roadmap for the next couple decades, I feel nothing but pity for a company that invested so much in batteries. A lot of truly practical alternatives will be ready long before the oil runs out. In a hundred years people will look back on the brief period of electric cars and wonder how anyone could've thought it was a good idea like we look back on wankel engines today.

>There's actually a lot more focus on hydrogen fuel >At least at the manufacturer I'm working for.
Toyota? Benz?

Wouldn't hydrogen have heaps of issues with transport and storage?
>Highly explosive, a tanker accident would wipe out a highway, a fueling station fire would wipe out a block.
>A single tanker can't really carry that much. Pipe lines are expensive.
>Leaks through sealed containers.
>Most of it comes from oil fields or from energy intensive production methods.

I don't know why more manufactures haven't clued onto using petrol-electric or diesel-electric. Just swap out the transmission for a generator and the diff for an electric motor. Reduces weight and complexity, better fuel economy therefore better emissions, still works like a normal car, no hybrid fucker with batteries.

Trucks especially should have switched to diesel-electric decades ago, and its not like its unproven technology. Shit has been used in trains for years.

Toyota and Mercedes both sell pure electric cars, safe to say they don't have "a lot more focus" on fuel cell cars.

I could lose more than my job/career if I told you Benz, so I won't.

>Wouldn't hydrogen have heaps of issues with transport and storage?
That's why we don't have fuel cells in mass production vehicles yet, but it's being worked on.

>Just swap out the transmission for a generator and the diff for an electric motor
What Honda is doing is closer to the currently favored solution. ICE as a generator with the option to connect it to the drivetrain with 1 fixed gear. Hybrids with small batteries are still gonna stay for a while longer after everyone has invested too much to just drop it again, it's still a good solution.

I wonder how far Audi is with the 48V system, they've been meaning to implement it in a lot of models for like a decade now.

>I could lose more than my job/career if I told you Benz, so I won't.

>An anonymous poster on an anime website just blew the lid off our secret operation! Let's trace his IP and find out who he is and fire him for breaking NDA!

Nobody here actually thinks you work in any position of importance at any manufacturer, don't worry about your job in Trim Assembly Station 3-A2C

There's a reason Daimler is rotating people on the lower levels, only keeping seniors for more than a couple of years. Call it autistic, but they don't want people to know more than they need to do their job at hand and they don't want people to accumulate a lot of knowledge over the course of years.

Frankly, I can't make you believe me, so if you want to buy a battery car, go ahead, it's not like they're horrible really.

I don't really care.

I just want that Porche to hit mass production without the front end changing at all. My dick.

It all depends on who locks down battery supply and price.

Porsche and other automakers will be able to do low volume of the Mission E and likewise cars, but you won't see an electric 3 series or even an electric Corolla in massive volumes any time soon. A 50KWh pack is sort of the unofficial benchmark for 200+ mile range.

Lets say BMW wanted to make the 3 series electric to compete with the Tesla Model 3, which is *supposedly* a direct competitor in terms of price. At 50KWh multiplied by the number of 3 series' produced in 2014, 480,214, we get 24010700KWh or 24GWh. That's 68% of all lithium-ion battery supply in the entire world in 2014. That's just one manufacturer switching one line to electric.

If all the new capacity as in pic related (45GWh) is used to power electric vehicles, which is conservative, that means 900000 EV's with econobox-tier 50KWh packs can be produced. That's every single manufacturer except Tesla on planet earth fighting for a slice of the 900000 pie. That doesn't factor in cars like the Air with it's 130KWh pack, stationary storage like Tesla' PowerPack/PowerWall eating batteries etc.

The major manufacturers are going to be buying from all the same guys who are going to be supply constrained for some time. Tesla may get beat on speed, on acceleration, on handling, on interior, but probably not for the foreseeable future on volume.

Unless major manufacturers start building their own battery factories or locking down battery supply exclusively for themselves.

How does Porsche manage to make a friendly smug face?

major automakers were smart enough to not invest in meme technologies only students and journalists believe in. at least not more than what is needed for PR reasons.

Students, jounalists and politicians, otherwise spot on.

>Battery cars are never gonna make it, ever. When I studied automotive engineering, all my professors were laughing at the idea of powering cars with rechargable batteries that weigh tons and need to be replaced at least every 10 years and can't be recycled. Now in the field nothing really changed, there's no real plans to switch any model to purely electric, because feasibility is just not even on the horizon. Almost all electric cars are concepts or city cars, but nowhere near a replacement. There's actually a lot more focus on hydrogen fuel cells and developing a new catalyst that allows the reaction to be stable and efficient at under 700°C. At least at the manufacturer I'm working for.
>all my professors
Well, that's because they are automotive engineering professors.
They can't picture their beloved ICE engine going away.
Any true engineer knows electric engines are vastly superior to ICE.
And to say the battery game hasn't changed?
We carry around battery powered devices that consume more power from the batteries than the first laptops did. tiny batteries with huge power.
And super capacitors are just around the corner.
Electric cars are the future.

>Well, that's because they are automotive engineering professors.
>They can't picture their beloved ICE engine going away.
Most of them were scientists with absolutely no passion for cars from more than a purely scientific standpoint.
>Any true engineer knows electric engines are vastly superior to ICE.
Obviously, but any true engineer also knows that batteries are vastly inferior to almost every other means of energy storage.
>And to say the battery game hasn't changed?
The laws of physics haven't changed, no.
>We carry around battery powered devices that consume more power from the batteries than the first laptops did. tiny batteries with huge power.
We're never gonna have batteries that are nearly as practical and convenient as petrol tanks.
>And super capacitors are just around the corner.
Super capacitors don't hold their charge very long, they're only really feasible as temporary energy storage in hybrid solutions.
>Electric cars are the future.
Electric motors are the future, I'm looking forward to that aswell, but batteries are never gonna make it.

Can you explain why the average person needs to travel over 200 miles without stopping? I have a one hour commute which is 70 miles one way. That means after a round trip I still have over 60 miles of range, plenty for any errands. Why is more range needed?

I honestly can't. I've only taken my own car on a total of 3 trips longer than 200 miles in one sitting, but you just can't market the absolute symbol of freedom with a limited range and extensive periods of charging before it can go on. There will always be that one question "but what if I want to go on a longer trip?", even if the consumer never goes on a longer trip. Capitalism isn't about what people need, it's about what people want.

Also, the short trips, at least in Europe and eastern Asia, are increasingly being covered by public transport. People who don't require the freedom of a car don't buy new ones, and those who do require the freedom won't be satisfied with "limited range".

Most automakers aren't planning on switching their lines to electric. Ford, Google, and others associate battery electric cars with autonomously driven ride-sharing services. They want to move from the business of manufacturing cars, to the business of selling ride-sharing services. Services are more profitable.
media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/08/16/ford-targets-fully-autonomous-vehicle-for-ride-sharing-in-2021.html

Yes

Tesla is also looking at selling ridesharing services, but that service hinges on what Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang would call "two miracles"

1: Electric powertrain, which is much much cheaper to refuel (!) and maintain (regen braking makes brakes last longer, no complicated transmission, no oil changes etc). Hydrogen may work here if the cars all return to some fuck huge refill depot as well.

2: Autonomous driving. This is just a can of fucking worms right now. Only Google/Waymo has a pretty good system that has demonstrated real world autonomy but it hasn't been battle tested outside of it's chosen few cities, much less outside USA.

Tesla's Autopilot is gathering a fuckhuge amount of data but it's not near full autonomy yet, especially since the full self driving sensor suite has only been on the road 3 months.

And say nothing of what regulators are going to do when autonomous driving starts becoming a real concern. Are they going to allow the car to drive with absolutely no one in it? Who's responsible in an accident? should you be allowed to take over? should they not build in a steering wheel/controls at all?

What if one country/state completely bans driverless autonomy and fucks their grand plan right up?

Its too late for other automakers to catch Tesla now. They could have 5 years ago but they were still laughing at Tesla back then. Now they will have to spend the next 5 years painfully fading out of existence as Tesla takes the entire market.

CLICKBAIT THE THREAD

I HONESTLY FEEL BAD REPLYING TO THIS SHIT EVEN IF ITS WITH A SAGE

I JUST HOPE OTHER ANONS SEE THIS AND KNOW TO SMASH THAT RE TO THE PORT BUTTON

also electric cars suck

>said
>was
I see you didn't learn the difference between past and present tenses in grade school

they confirmed that mission e was on hold until batteries got lighter dumbo!!

BMW, too
They built two testing prototypes, a 3 series GT and an i8

Honda's Clarity will be on sale soon

Few small workshops in UK are building, testing their own prototypes

Our Scandinavian friends are working on it too

>Implying instant torque isn't the greatest feel of all

There is literally a Chevy Volt with 300,000 miles and no range degradation.

greencarreports.com/news/1102736_durable-2012-chevrolet-volt-300000-miles-no-battery-loss

I think you understand the potential life of batteries.

The only thing people are going to look back on this: How could a society as precious as ours destroy it's ecosystem when they knew they could change it? Batteries are fine. Electric cars are fine. Gas burning cars will kill us all and destroy the habitat that we all share.

Any society is incapable of healthy long term decision making. This is fact. Egyptians forgot how to make pyramids, romans forgot how to build aquaducts, and now USA/North America has forgotten how to innovate it's way out of disaster. Or, maybe it has not forgotten, and Elon is the only one who remembers.

Fuck you all

Tesla's entire plan was to jump start the electric car industry.

How is it clickbait? Oh, wait...
>also electric cars suck
That explains it.

autoblog.com/2015/12/04/porsche-mission-e-2020-launch/

>all these fags moaning about how EV production has more pollution impact than ICEs

First off, cite a fucking source since I don't believe you

Second I don't want to breathe in smog and particulates and get cancer, fuck you. If the power isn't generated by my house, great. Nuclear is even better.

>Batteries are fine.
Their production certainly isn't.
>Electric cars are fine.
Assuming that their getting charged from clean power.
>Gas burning cars will kill us all and destroy the habitat that we all share.
Dat alarmism. While EVs are better for the environment, goddamn you're being such an alarmist.
>Or, maybe it has not forgotten, and Elon is the only one who remembers. Fuck you all
Actual Teslafag. Holy shit I've seen a lot of Teslafags - and I thought I've seen the worst - but you have just raised (or rather, lowered) the bar. EVs are the future, but Tesla won't be on top. Get over it, fag. Tesla company can't compete with massive companies with over 100 years of experience in car building and innovation.

>First off, cite a fucking source since I don't believe you
Lithium mining is more damaging to local environments. Overall, they're cleaner. But not production wise.
wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

Not when EVs exceed ICEs in performance. They already have better acceleration/torque.

1. the article mentioned you can recycle batteries to get lithium back
2. ICE cars need a lot of mined metals and materials too so this point is moot, if we're doing a comparison to EVs. where the fuck do you think they get aluminum and iron from, and the silicon for the computers and shit

>They already have better acceleration
An AWD electric car with a single gear is faster to 60, it is slower than fucking civics past 100mph
And it can only do it super special 0-60 a couple times before power is heavily drained it its running an extra second each time

EV will never exceed ICE in performance

Honestly, I don´t know.
At the moment most other car manufacturers (especialy germans) have issues due to excessive burocracy.
If a big company like VW would start to manufacture their own batterys, reduce burocracy and sell serial hybrids, Tesla would get a hard time.

Since VW is going more and more electric/hybrid with the UP, Golf and Passat to recover from Dieselgate, they may actually get somwhere.

Interestingly the german Post started building their own transporters and sells them.
Soon they will actualy launch a small hatchback/ute for the german market.
pic related

Tesla's future is selling batteries.
Elon already said he's accomplished what he wanted to do and that was push the auto industry into making electric cars.

>it is slower than fucking civics past 100mph
At the moment. Add a gearbox and that shouldn't be a problem. Tesla didn't use one in their roadster, but Formula E cars use them.

>And it can only do it super special 0-60 a couple times before power is heavily drained it its running an extra second each time
Porsche said that they shouldn't have their EV. He said:
"The thing about Tesla's Ludicrous mode is that it's a façade," the product manager said. "Two launches saps the whole battery. That won't be the case with the Mission E. You'll be able to run it hard, over and over; the battery will not overheat, the power control module will not overheat, and the seats will not suck."
roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a29570/porsche-engineer-tesla-ludicrous-facade/
"EV will never exceed ICE in performance"
Honestly, I kinda am staying neutral about this. user is right when he said that they have better low-ends, but the range and the top speed are certainly a problem in an actual race. But hey, maybe if we spam enough "Tesla beats (x) in drag race!!!!!!!!" videos, we'll just forget all about it, huh?

>Two launches saps the whole battery.
That is because Tesla uses Li-Ion batterys instead of LiPo batterys.
Li-Po Batterys can sustain about 5-10x the power Li-Ion can.
New graphene Li-Ion can handle even more...

>EV will never exceed ICE in performance

Jesus christ you sound stupid.

>but Formula E cars use them
those things that need car swaps in middle of races? lmao

well they will certainly never be faster than a jet

>comparing jets with cars

meh so what?

meh so you're stupid

tesla too fast for your dumb comments

jet go ZOOM
tesla go BOOM

ICE cars actualy burn about 5 times as often as Teslas...

because they burn fuel to move duuh

I meant when the burn fuel outside of the engine...

like when it has a rich tune and the exhaust is really hot and ignites any unburned fuel?

No, more like when the plastic canister breaks and ignites.

>those things that need car swaps in middle of races? lmao

Not this season, they won't. All on one charge,

ohh you mean like this>? you should have been more clear user

>understand

I meant, "underestimate."

Imagine if in a decade, Tesla, while being the class leader in all their models, just outright stops selling cars. Elon Musk goes on the stage and says, "We've come to the conclusion that we have successfully accelerated the advent of sustainable transport. Our mission is complete."

>2027
>Tesla Model S P200DW
>warp mode
>accelearates 0-60mph in 1,5 secons
>topspeed 220mph
>500miles realistic range
>Elon Musk: still to slow

Electric cars are constrained by the number of battery packs that can be produced. Every other bit of manufacturing and tech is already more or less solved.

Because of this, there is an enormous amount of $$$ being poured into battery research. Everyone knows that if you make a significant breakthrough in battery production and can successfully vertically integrate, your company will capture an entire market and make fuckhuge bags of money.

Tesla is just one of many many companies that are attempting to do this. They just have some type of Jedi marketing trick going on with Elon Musk in the consumer space (and especially on nerdy tech forums). Probably just because of the space thing and "i started three company all by myselfs" meme.

You can notice though that Tesla's vision is really only a car on the surface. They're doing the power wall, charge station infrastructure, solar, etc. etc. They want to place themselves between the battery manufacturing conglomerate (whether that's Tesla or not) and the consumer -- at the infrastructure level.

You don't hear about most other companies in this space because they are not consumer-facing. But there are many. Investors and government, both in the U.S. and abroad, are bullish on this.

IF they do pull their grand vision off, Tesla will be in a good position. But no, other car companies will not be "BTFO," because it's just as likely that some other company will make a leap in this space and be the provider of packaged batteries for automakers. Besides, batteries are a commodity and thus there is no marketing or polish that can make them have high margins. There's not even any state level IP controls that can make them have high margins, because all the manufacturing will be done in wild west areas with no environmental protections (it's dirty business).

Elon please I'm tired of speed.

"YOU'RE TOO SLOW!!!!"

I remember this picture from that other Tesla thread a couple weeks ago.

Indeed, i marked the position of the singlespeed "gearbox".

no one cares

B-but Elon, we passed that GTR-R36 AND the Porsche 918 AND SNEK ACR before the five cosecutive hairpins.
How fast do you want to go?

>2030

>Tesla announces supersonic car
>german federal goverment scared of sonic booms on highways

>general airspace G speed limit gets enforced on the Autobahn
>250 knots
>463km/h
>290mph

>Gearbox
>Gearfox
>Starfox
>Star light
>Star bright
>First star I see tonight
>I wish I may
>I wish I might
>And you just lost the game

autoblog.com/2015/08/19/tesla-superchargers-letter/
do Tesla chargers work with other brands of ev ?
I just hope it does not get like cellphones were around 2004 where every brand had its own type of plug

I heared rumors that Tesla will allow other cars to charge at their superchargers for a fee.
In europe Tesla uses Type 2 plugs.
Type 2 and Type 2 CCS are the future.

youtube.com/watch?v=6W9rqsPjKCc#t=1m8s
the cooling system is sort of neat
I wonder how well it deals with leakage or cable damage

The cable will have a safety contact around the cable.

CCS on the other hand will be even more powerfull than Teslas supercharger once they fire up all contacts.

Perfect.

>Literally every automaker other than Tesla opposed the new fuel efficiency mandate

Good riddance.

What sad is this is the truth and no auto manufactures besides Ford seem to realize it.

Because when was the last time Tesla produced an ICE car? Every other major auto company has been doing it for years. That's why.

Why does that matter? It doesn't matter how many ICE cars a company made in their past. Any one of the major automakers could move all their models to electric power in a year if they wanted to, but they would rather milk the ICE for all its worth.

This shit makes the hellcat look like a kid's toy

Has 1000hp and always at peak torque

LMAO
>implying jets use ICE

>hydrogen fuel cells
>some cracked out truck driver accidentally crashes into a bridge, effectively turning his 40 ton cargo into a megaton bomb and creating an impact crater 3km across

Unless hydrogen gets much safer somehow and soon, we're never gonna use it.

>a small kitchen fire creates the next Hindenburg

Gud1m8