Why do only Americans make muscle cars?

-goes fast
-doesnt look like some ugly boyracer trash
-2 doors
-long
-rwd
-v8

>expensive as fuck
>muscle car

>doesnt look like some ugly boyracer trash

>AMG

Depends on your definition. Some consider this the first muscle car.

>inserts 90s Nissan exhaust tip into anus

No they don't.

>7L supercharged I8

Nah it's the Dues

If the common man (middle class) couldn't afford it, it wasn't a muscle car. Rule still holds today.

No middle class person can afford any car because they're all financed or leased

>financing something means you can't afford it
back to high school economics

>wait x years to save and then pay y amount
>finance for x years and pay 11y/10 amount for the convenience of not waiting
Lern2money

Because elsewhere driving is too big of an expense and not enough of a social focus to prioritize power and image over economy, practicality and handling. In America you're a nobody if you don't own an expensive or flashy looking car.

Go tell that to all the wealthy people that lease luxury cars. Leasing is smart. I bet you rent your house which is ironic.

Wasn't the first musclecar the rocket 88?

>In America you're a nobody if you don't own an expensive or flashy looking car.
This isn't really true, but everyone who's trying to keep up with the Jones' believes it

If you have debt then you can't afford it

>pays interest because he's a poorfag

LMAO leasing isn't just for wealthy people. It's for people who always want the newest models.

>If you have debt then you can't afford it
This is what happens when you let Veeky Forums teach you household economics. They should really teach this kind of stuff in school

It's generally considered because it was the first time a top of the line V8 was mated to an entry level chassis from the factory.

Lol just stop posting. If you could buy it with cash you wouldn't have an auto loan.

Because bigger engine is always better. Literally cast iron hunks of inefficient shit.

>this is what teenagers with no real world financial experience and poor parents actually believe

Sometimes it can be a smarter decision to finance something and keep the money in your bank account, like if you are paying less interest than what you could gain on the money if you kept it, or if you need an emergency savings stash, etc.

"debt" is kind of a boogeyman buzzword these days, but it's a useful tool if you know how to use it instead of being an ignorant kid who thinks anyone that doesn't buy everything in cash is broke

The only thing that bothers me with that is you could save the money and then buy something even newer and have the benefit of already owning it.

But with that logic your basically paying the payments to yourself before you actually buy the car. And then if you wanted to make payments for credit you could just avoid paying off the entire car at once and have really low payments (or maybe you'd have to make payments because the newer car probably costs more anyways).

You would if you didn't want to blow your cash on a car all at once.

I wouldn't call almost 500hp naturally aspirated "inefficient" especially in 1970. Modern European cars can barely make that power with a V8 and twin turbo's.

>Why do only Americans make muscle cars?
>Nobody notices that OP's pic is of a rebadged Holden Monaro.

You stay classy Veeky Forums.

Those numbers amount to fuckall performance and you know it.

And yes, using 30L/100km is inefficient.

American cars with V8s that I don't like because Top Gear told me they're bad.

Yeah but on the other hand if you save up until you can afford things cash you will have more time to generate interest on your money, and the amount of money to generate interest on will be higher as you're saving it up. If you constantly take out loans for purchases or buy stuff on direct loans you won't have any money to generate interest on because everything you earn is immediately gone on payments. All you achieve is getting your item sooner at a much higher risk.

>rebadged Holden Monaro
Which is a redesigned Holden Commodore... Which is a redesigned Cadillac Catera. All powered by American engines.

So it's pretty much an American car

>muh gross ratings
>muh "underrated for insurance purposes"
Most of these things made maybe 300 hp net.

>throw a manual in an expensive amg benz
>now it meets the requirements of what a proper muscle car should be

No, you risk more by blowing all your cash on the car and having nothing in your bank account.

Listen, I didn't just pull all this out of my ass right now, this is pretty much universally accepted as truth by anyone who knows anything about how to manage their finances. Arguing with me isn't going to prove anything.

Holden Monaro which is a redesigned Holden Commodore which is a redesigned Cadillac Catera which is a rebadged Opel Omega. And the Cadillac Catera only had a V6 available, which in turn was a licensed Saab development.

>Which is a redesigned Cadillac Catera
Which is a redesigned opel omega b, which is a straight up european car. Neither of which were available with V8s, only the AUSTRALIAN MODELS. Get your facts right idiot.

>expensive
>proper muscle car
pick one

That's just a rebadged Opel omega though

...

>lower quality of life until you can buy what you want outright
>or pay 32k for a 28k car(example)

Yeah i think ill finance

>Commodore had, in turn, been developed by enlarging the European designed 1994 Opel Omega B, which was marketed in its original form in the U.S. from 1997 to 2001 as the Cadillac Catera.

>anyone who knows anything about how to manage their finances
Like all those Americans who are neck deep in payments and loans? I consider the risk of ongoing payments while my source of income breaks away far greater than the risk of buying something with money I already have. Even banks do, that's why they refuse loans when they think you'll have trouble paying them back. When I buy stuff cash and do get into financial troubles afterwards I can simply sell the items again and won't be ass fucked by payments.

The average Euro shitbox does 0-60 in over 14 seconds. You don't get the right to talk about performance. They get closer to 20l/100km which is pretty normal here in the civilized world.

Oh, Not your autistic ass again. Have fun riding on your 300hp "net" bus.

>European designed 1994 Opel Omega B
1994

>1997 to 2001 as the Cadillac Catera
1997

Thanks for playing

That was my point

>Opel sold from 1994
>Cadillac sold from 1997
You do realize which one is the original, right?

>thinking your life quality suffers if you don't blow your entire income every single month
Boy will you be in for a rude awakening when you retire with zero savings.

>Like all those Americans who are neck deep in payments and loans?
They live from week to week and are drowning in debt because they couldnt enjoy a decent life otherwise.

If you have 200k from some dead uncle or whatever and want to buy a house, it is straight retarded to pay outright for it.
Anyone with three digit IQ would mortgage the house and invest your fucking stack of cash so its doing something.

200k straight down the toilet...
or 200k mortgage at below 4%, and investing your 200k of cash for 12% growth if you arent braindead

Figure it out

>again
I haven't argued gross and net hp in a very long time. Maybe never. Fact of the matter is that the difference between gross and net hp exceeds 30%. The 1971 Cadillac Eldorado was rated at 365 hp gross and 235 hp net. From an 8.2L engine. 29 hp/L net.

>12% growth
Wow, watch out, we've got a Wall Street hot head at our hands!

Because it's a smog-fucked engine. Pre-70's engines were putting out more than their gross rated power.

You do comprehend that I am talking about a single model year, right?

1971. I'm not comparing pre-smog and post-smog. it's purely 1971. The 1971 engine was rated 365 hp gross and 235 hp net.

Smog regulations weren't even in place in 1971. They only lowered the compression a little in anticipation, from 400 hp gross in 1970. Which would've been 260 hp net accordingly.

>If you have 200k from some dead uncle or whatever and want to buy a house, it is straight retarded to pay outright for it. Anyone with three digit IQ would mortgage the house and invest your fucking stack of cash so its doing something.

Thank fucking god someone else isn't retarded, i was beginning to think this place was full of neckbeards living in their moms basement eating tendies for a minute there.

12% growth is extremely good. How much is your savings account getting you? How much is the house or car you just spent all your money on making you? The car is depreciating. The house might be going up in value, but not that fast...

As much as it pains you, you know that's not true. Look at modern dyno runs on old stock engines. Or do the math on the drag times they were posting back then, that should please your 'tism.

You're living in a fucking delusion if you think you can get 12% return from some average joe bullshit investments. Do you even have your own bank account yet? Or is dad still managing your money?

Lets not forget that manufacturers used prototype heads, cam profiles, exhaust headers, intake manifold etc etc to boost 'rated' horsepower.
Even with gross to net, the 427 L-36 Vette dropped from '390hp' to a pathetic little 280hp. And muh '450hp Chevelle LS6' only putting 280hp down at the wheels.

underrating for insurance and other bullshit is just baby boomer mythology

>we've got a Wall Street hot head at our hands!
heh... average market growth is 7%
still better than 4% mortgage

>Pre-70's engines were putting out more than their gross rated power
no. they. were. not.

>12% return from some average joe bullshit investments
Explain what you mean by 'some average joe bullshit investments'?

"blah blah no bank account blah blah daddy
Way to project, fucking idiot.

>stock 396
>rated 375 hp, 415 tq
>dyno 444 hp, 459 tq
youtube.com/watch?v=yCzmr1_GgNM

Holden is dead tho

I guess these 1971 Chevrolet spec sheets are photoshops, too.

That's why I said it was extremely good, you numbskull. It was an example.

Point is, any return over inflation on an investment is better than no return on spending all your money at once.

Sigh. Do you really think a AMG for example, puts it's rated power to the wheels? Lay off the gran turismo.

youtube.com/watch?v=8JfkpyzlGxw

And this is a shit engine.

Engine-----------------------Rated Hp--Est. Net Hp

'64 Olds 330------------------ 310------ 240
'66 Olds 400------------------ 360------ 320
'68 Buick 400----------------- 345------ 290
'68 Chevy 396 L-78----------- 375------ 360
'69 Pontiac GTO 400---------- 370------ 340
'67 Pontiac GTO 400 ram air--- 360------ 310
'68 Olds 400------------------ 370------ 320
'68 Chevy 427 L-72----------- 425------ 390
'69 Dodge 440-6 Pack--------- 390------ 370

'65 Mustang HP 289----------- 271------ 190
'65 Barracuda 273------------- 235------ 190
'67 Mustang 390--------------- 335------ 250
'68 AMC AMX 390-------------- 315------ 290
'67 Chevy Camaro 350--------- 295------ 230
'68 Plymouth 'Cuda 340-------- 275------ 290
'68 Ford Mustang 428---------- 335------ 320

'66 Mopar 426-Hemi----------- 425------- 330
'67 Mopar 426-Hemi----------- 425------- 360
'68 Mopar 426-Hemi----------- 425------- 390
'69 Mopar 426-Hemi----------- 425------- 420

Base 350-cu-in--------------- 300------- 200
350 L-46--------------------- 350------- 290
427 L-36--------------------- 390------- 280
427 L-71--------------------- 435------- 400

Investments that average people actually have access to, not that multimillion high reward stuff that kike professional investors engage in.

America has
>straight roads
>wide roads
Muscle cars are
>power down in the straights
>big

Hmm I wonder if there's a connection

Guess what happens if you fail to make payments? """"""Your""""" property gets repossessed and all you have to show for it is debt and a crappy credit score.

A skyline is only 200 hp right? Because manufacturers totally never lie about power outputs to cheat emission standards and bullshit laws.

Are you some kind of deadbeat who doesn't pay your bills? If so, obviously you shouldn't finance anything, but then again, you probably wouldn't be able to buy it outright either.

>if
Don't fail to make payments.

I don't know how daft you have to be to draw such a connection because Skylines were never subject to the marketing lies of pre-SAE ratings. Both the Japs and us Euros, in this case Germans, soon established standardized measurements.

>implying holden isn't just GM shit

>people never lose their jobs suddenly
>people never have sudden medical expenses
>people never have sudden household expenses
>financing is perfectly safe

Let's get to the meat, and potatoes of this thread....."PontiacGTO.jpeg"........"We're all butthurt our cars are shittier"........

>daft

GTFO you British piece of shit. Try driving something with 3 digit power before you come here saying out shit doesn't perform.

All these things are true when you live in Canada.

>Or do the math on the drag times they were posting back then, that should please your 'tism
Okay,

In 1970, Car & Driver tested a Pontiac Firebird Formula 400, equipped with a fairly tall 3.07 axle ratio. They recorded a 14.78-second ET at 98.9 mph (RATED AT 330 GROSS HP)
a 1979 4-speed Trans Am with the emissions-controlled W72 400 engine, it ran a 15.3 second ET at 96.6 mph. That car had a 3.23 axle ratio (RATED AT 220 NET HP)
2mph trap difference....

Yes financing is the safer option you dipshit, because then you will have cash in the bank to pay for those sudden medical expenses or bills while you have no job. What do you think happens if you blow all your money on the car/house and then lose your job? idiot..

>greentext and anime reaction images mean i'm right!
guaranteed high schooler right here

I consider the Australian SS the best Chevy on sale in the US right now. It's worth every dime because it's far better engineered and built than those cut-corners Detroit buckets of shit. Anyone reading this feel free to fite me.

>not that multimillion high reward stuff that kike professional investors engage in
Lmao so you have absolutely zero idea what the fuck you are talking about? Thanks.

Except if you had cash in the bank you wouldn't have to finance.

Americans made the SS better. The seppo version has god tier magneride.

Clearly you don't if you think you can get 12% return on your chump change investments.

see Now sit down and shut up

...

Don't blow all of your money then idiot. Keep some thousands in your account, not 50 dollars or something.

>Throw out unrealistic number as a placeholder for an example
>retard latches onto it when he realizes he is completely wrong and looks like a dumbass

I think we're done here

Damned good question. Nissan has the 370Zwith a minimum of 330hp stock. Toyota is working on a new, high-power Supra. That's about all I can think of that compares though.

America had the Pontiac GTO to Jumpstart the muscle-car craze, and nostalgia to keep it going. I guess the Goat never really caught on elsewhere.

>expecting someone who finances to be reasonable with money

>Keep some thousands in your account, not 50 dollars or something.
Wow it's almost like that's exactly the purpose of financing in the first place!

You can keep arguing like an idiot, against what's universally considered common sense and basic economics, or you can go sign up for an econ class next semester and actually learn some shit before you end up in the real world totally helpless

Because it doesn't make sense elsewhere.

Kid, please stop posting

Down at $58 new years 2015/2016 because of opec oil bullshit, anyone with half a brain bought up as many stocks as they could during that time across ALL INDUSTRIES and are still lmao'ing about it
Dont have to be a millionaire kike banker to make money...

Sorry you are a clueless child who didnt pay attention in school =//

ITT: p/o/Veeky Forumsr

ITT: Veeky Forums learns about the time value of money, opportunity cost, and basic investing

>the more you know