Greece was once considered one of the greatest civilizations around. They produced amazing literature and had some of the most revered philosophers of all time. Then they had a downfall that they never really recovered from, and now in current day it is in economic chaos and is no longer even close to a frontrunner in terms of how advanced it is as a society. I wonder the same thing regarding Egypt as well.
Same goes for the civilizations under the Islamic golden age. They were very advanced and deeply valued science and knowledge. Now, many of these places are in constant war with eschother, some have not advanced at all and some of the countries that were under this golden age can even be seen as backwards and stuck in the past.
Why is it that these once prosperous civilizations that produced such amazing thinkers, ideas, and technology, are today, so far behind?
In reference to Greece, after the death of Alexander they couldn't really sustain such a vast army and the money coming in from the east had been very limited, which pretty much laid the foundations for them to get BTFO'd by Rome later on. Greece over the course of history has been raped several times and never really got to pick itself back up, I'd say the same for Persia. It's a shame that so many of the civilizations of the past have been inherited by incompetent and corrupt leaders. Pre-Islam, the middle east and south Asia were the places to be. The richest parts of the world, vibrant and colorful with immense amounts of wealth and disciplined armies. Greece was on par with Persia (obviously not in terms of land capacity). It hurts desu. It really does.
Anthony Myers
>Pre-Islam, the middle east and south Asia were the places to be. Post-Islam was pretty good too for a while, with thinkers like Avicenna, Biruni, Khwarizmi, ibn al-Nafs, al-Razi, et al
That seems like some right wing propaganda to me. He didn't even talk about Ancient Greece or Rome. Just a hypothetical American fall in the future. This is just nonsense.
Aiden Stewart
I think Italy is even sadder. Literally made culture take its biggest leap in history... and nowadays, they just crash cruises and steal from tourists to do a shitty job at taking care of their own history.
Asher Martin
What was it that caused its downfall? That golden age period of time seems so different to how they are now.
Jacob Hughes
>Literally made culture take its biggest leap in history... What makes you say that?
Jordan Adams
Doesn't really surprise me after becoming a NATO (American) puppet.
Supercapitalism, not even once.
Owen Howard
Back then there wasn't a giant terrorist state that shilled for Wahabism aka the cancer of Islam. There was still rational thought and the political undertone of the shariah was interpreted to fit what we'd probably call proto liberal values. The Mongols fucked everything up though.
Eli Sanders
Did the mongols fuck them up more so than the west did back then?
Wyatt Reyes
Fuck's sake.
Reading Spengler should be mandatory before posting here.
Austin Torres
Well what caused the arab golden age to fall is the Mongols sacking Baghdad. But even still you have to remember that time and power are not a constant. Who is strong today may become weak tomorrow. I mean when Greece, Rome, and Persia were at their height northern europe england france were shitholes. And now it's the opposite. Eventually England, France, America will fall and someone else will become top dog. It's the way the world works it's a circle.
William Turner
RACE-MIXING
End thread.
Isaac Russell
Back then it was straight up war instead of trying to Jew about with various proxy organisation to benefit your cause. So yeah I'd say the steppe niggers fucked them up worse than the west, but even then the ottomans got it back on lock. Nowadays there's no way to know what the fuck is going to happen in the MENA region.
David Rogers
A ton of things. Frequent power shifts caused by Mongols, Turks, and very fragile dynasties which relied on tribal influence (Qizilbashis, Mamluks) especially in the hugely ethnically/culturally diverse Middle East; increased sectarianism and radicalism by fellas like Ghazali, ibn Taymiyya; all the way up to finally putting the nail in the coffin by rendering the benefits of the Silk Road null and void by the discovery of Murrica.
To blame it on any one thing is disingenuous.
Asher Lewis
Make greece and Asia great again when
Charles Foster
2000 years of history you idiot.
Colton Lewis
It's partly the Arabs' fault for having so little "industriualized" cities, Baghdad being one of them but the Mongols didn't destroy everything for shits and giggles, they were let in by Shiite high rankings because they felt mistreated and in fact they let Shi'a scholars keep their work, it was nonetheless a huge blow. However after having adopted Islam, the Mongols were seen as deviating from the true form of the religion by certain scholars notably Ibn Tayymia still quoted by groups like ISIS today, puritan thought isnt new in Islam
Grayson Taylor
Well Asia is on it's way to becoming on top again just look at China, and Japan. If America ever falls China would probably be the next world power like they were in the past.
Ian Gray
Why the hostility? Not everyone who comes here has had a decent education--some end up not learning much about history or philosophy at all.
If someone is curious and has a question, and you think that Spengler would be helpful for them to understand things better, then just suggest it and maybe give them some reasons as to why you are suggesting it and think it might help. They would be far more receptive if you approached it in that manner instead of just rejecting someone who is seeking knowledge.
Adam Fisher
What about the Greeks? I know the Romans played a huge part, but what else contributed to their downfall?
Logan Williams
They burnt out after alexander
Kayden Butler
Roman Empire, but most importantly, Rennaissance mate
Kevin Wilson
to be fair Italy was able to reinvent itself after the fall of the WRE and still manage to be a very important player in the history of the west until pretty much the modern period
Nolan Kelly
5th century-ruled by Goths 6th century-Ruled by Byzantium and Lombards 7th century-Muslim Raids 8th and 9th century-Ruled by HRE 10th century-Normans 12th-19th-Faught over and ruled by France or HRE, Spain and/or Austria
Adrian Green
your point? being under the influence of foreign powers doesn't exclude you from being influential, and in any case Italian city states eventually acquired lots of indipendency.
Thomas Murphy
>your point? Its pretty obvious the only importance italy had after the fall of Romes was as a toy in the prison that was the dark ages
Jace Morris
in the dark ages as in fall of the WRE to Carolingian renaissance, sure, but after that Italy was still fairly important for western culture, even if politically divided and not totally independent.
Hudson Bailey
It's almost as though the people living on a piece of land thousands of years ago aren't the same as the people living there now, and that nations change constantly over time and are ultimately a political construct. Really makes you think...
