Manual or auto? Discuss

Manual is more durable and more simple/

City = Auto
Rural = Manual

Kek
>thinks his dct is a real manual
I hope your vagina is okay user

Modern automatics are faster than manuals

>Manual is more durable
>actually believes this

Clutch pedal? If not it's an auto

Lol this I've never understood the whining shit
*New* nuisance? Lmao

>CVT is not an argument
you're right, it's a transmission

Under proper use, a manual will last millions of miles. The clutch is a wear item and should be discounted from this made up statistic

it depends what kind satan. an auto on a honda odessey is not, the auto on something like a sporty BMW maybe. DCTs are faster most of the time. CVTs don't have fucking gears so they can theoretically be the "fastest"

yeah basically the NEW annoying shitpost you manufags created.

H pattern synchromesh manual = poorfag track performance, poorfaggotry period, pretending to be manly to make up for being a huge faggot.
Conventional autos = 50 shades of shit
CVT = economy and comfort with durability to match the customers that mostly care about those two things: leasefags.
DCT = a good compromise between convenience, comfort, and performance. Complex and heavy though
H pattern dogbox = maybe you'll actually shift as fast as an auto now? Who knows? Nope. You'll just grind fucking everything.
Sequential dogbox or semi-auto = The king of fun and fast driving. Motorcyclists get this glorious shit standard.

And a modern sequential manual is faster than a modern automatic. What's your point?

Fucking this, we need more sequentials in cars.

>CVT
>durability

You can actually buy a modern (DCT) automatic off the factory floor

You're not retrofitting your car with a sequential manual any time soon.

Also it bears mentioning that muh shift times aren't really something that matters unless you are a top tier fucking driver who can squeeze every last gram of performance out of a car and post records at every track you visit. It's better to focus on engine output, weight, and suspension tuning before wondering if you could shift from second to third 0.07s faster, especially with modern manual cars that support no-lift shifts

And swapping between transmissions on an equivalent car affects weight quite a bit so you stand to gain even less than expected by going from manual to DCT without changing anything else

Anything with last forever if you continue to replace the parts that wear. lel

>sequential
>manual

Sorry, if you're not shifting the gears yourself you are not driving a manual

"Limousine" type big sedans should be automatic, normal shit boxes manual, sports cars either with manual or semi-automatic transmission.

Automatic transmissions are more enjoyable to drive because they let you focus on the thrill of driving and the road ahead instead of focusing on operating the clutch and shifting gears.

On public roads you should focus on the road with both hands on the wheel. Not steering with one hand wondering what gear your in or what rpm to switch to.

Manual might give you more control but nigger it isn't more fun to drive.

busrider detected

What is going to wear inside a manual?
It's just not designed to wear out with proper care and usage. There's nothing much else to say, it's like crank bearings, you don't see people changing those out every 200k miles.

Yeah, its an auto buddy.

If shift times don't matter than this entire fit of automatics shifting faster is a moot point anyway then.

The top level SMGs currently shift in 8ms.

>Has a clutch
>Has a shifter
It's a manual. I'm taking about proper SMGs not hydroelectric setups with automatic clutches.

Do you also think motorcycles aren't manuals?

You should Google what unconscious competence is.

Needing to focus on changing gears is caused by a lack of ability and practice not an inherent problem with manual transmissions.

they're proper manuals cunt, think of a dog box with the H pattern bs fucked off in favour of a mechanical adaptor that gives you the up/down selection

i've seen aftermarket ones for wrx and shit but they're like $20k+

>If shift times don't matter than this entire fit of automatics shifting faster is a moot point anyway then.

There's this little problem where some people don't know how to drive and can't seem to fucking learn

>OH GOD GUYS I BOUGHT A MANUAL CIVIC AND LEMME TELL YOU
>I'VE BEEN HOLDING THIS CLUTCH IN ALL DAY IN TRAFFIC AND MY LEG HURTS SOMETHING FIERCE
>HOW DO YOU FAGS DO IT?

SMG (BMW) DSG (VW/AUDI) are called sequential and are autos you dick.

Manuals are fun
CVTs are comfy
Autos are deprecated and obsolete.

>SMG (BMW) DSG (VW/AUDI) are called sequential and are autos you dick.
DSG is a type of automatic. BMW's SMG is a manual gearbox with a hydroelectric clutch.

Either way I just said I'm not talking about hydroelectric setups.

A Sequential MANUAL Gearbox is in essence the same thing a motorcycle uses but for a car. It has a clutch, a shifter, and is a type of manual gearbox.

Again, do you think that motorcycle transmissions are automatic too? This is what you are saying at the moment.

Problem with the user not the transmission.

Auto = city
Manual = country.

i actively avoid driving in cities in a manual it fucking sucks.

>Sequential MANUAL Gearbox
Wow, I wonder what SMG stands for?

If a lot of users have a problem with a transmission, maybe there's a problem with the transmission

I don't know how but people can pick up and competently operate motorcycle transmissions more easily than they can the H pattern synchrowhateverthefuck transaxles in shitboxes with the sole issue of finding neutral, except for kawasakis with PNFs

I am a mega pleb who's only ever driven automatics. Do manuals go faster? Like if there were two exact same vehicles but one was auto and one was manual would the manual win?

Manual drivers go faster because going slow and revving low means short shifting like a madman

I'm not saying you're wrong about sequential transmissions (I'm not the guy you were arguing with) I'm just saying electrohydraulic transmissions are often also called sequential manuals by manufactures.

modern self driving cars are faster and safer than humans too.
Get one of those since you obviously hate driving.

The transmission can be manual while the clutch is auto

SEMANTICS

I'm highlighting the absurdity in your calling a sequential a manual because one car company sold a hydroelectric operated system as an "SMG."

The funny part is BMW's SMG is actually considered a manual gearbox still.

Again, do you think motorcycle transmissions are automatic?

>If a lot of users have a problem with a transmission, maybe there's a problem with the transmission
A loud minority of people being too ignorant and/or stupid to learn isn't a problem with the transmission.

If someone is doing something stupid, eg holding the clutch in constantly in traffic, gets told the proper way to do it, then continues to do it their way and complain, that's on them.

Technically speaking BMW's SMG is a manual, I've never really been a fan of them though. They're nice to drive at speed through twisties but pretty shocking for anything slow due to how the clutch acts.

VW's DSG is a type of automatic transmission though, yes.

calling a sequential an automatic*

Autos are also at a disadvantage as the power has to also act on the hydraulic fluid (where the pressure changes gear)

> unless your driving a cucked modern auto

here's what the insides of a sequential manual look like

>I'm just saying electrohydraulic transmissions are often also called sequential manuals by manufactures.
marketing departments lie, news at 11

People often say "standards" are clunky and uncomfortable rides because they don't realize the synchros force you to either shift really slow or have good timing with the clutch, and clutchless shifting is insanely difficult.

However, with a sequential+dogs as on a motorcycle, it's just close throttle click up and you get fairly smooth shifts. So smooth that you don't notice how much they upset the chassis until you're near the limits of grip. Add a quickshifter and it gets even better. There's not so much technique involved.

So yeah, there might be a problem with the transmission design.

depends.
If you have a double clutch modern gearbox that is tip top quality in engineering you will shift faster than the speed of light.

99% of the time don't. even. fucking. pretend. autos. are.worth.shit. for anything other than lazy retarded fucking americans who haven't seen a single manual in their fat fucking lives and argue they hate it since using it in town is a pain but you really know these autistic lazy retards just get their cape stuck under the clutch.

Manuals are 100% the way to go if you actually like driving, doesn't mater wether its in town or country.
Autos change gears when they feel like it and have a mind of their own. If you care so much about speed and safety get a self driving car.

If you enjoy driving you get a manual and use it. Otherwise you're another commuter.

>The funny part is BMW's SMG is actually considered a manual gearbox still.
No clutch, no manual. Period
>Again, do you think motorcycle transmissions are automatic?
Do motorcycles have a clutch?

you can shift buttery smooth with a standard clutch+syncros manual.
you need to rev match, which is why all these heel toe and double shifting techniques exist and why learning to ACTUALLY drive manual is important in racing: it teaches you to go faster at limits of grip

I too own a motorcycle ;)
if "electrohydraulic" is still a manual to you, then sure. I call it an automatic.

You can shift fast as shit with a synchro'd manual. You must suck at driving dude. Literally as fast as you can throw a selecter and manage a clutch.

>automatic for the weak and frail old people and disabled
>manual for me and every other able bodied human
god europe is so much nicer, We don't cuck ourselves out of driving and still pretend we're enthusiasts.
Nobody takes dragraces seriously either

>no clutch, no manual

clutches are for getting the vehicle rolling and stopping the vehicle later. they only exist because you would stall if you tried to run an engine against a stationary car.

why would a manual clutch matter when a computer can do better launch control than you ever could

You can shift buttery smooth but you'll also shift melting-butter slow. The term "rowing gears" really means something here. People dislike that. It's a limitation in the design of the transmission.

>as fast as you can manage a clutch
there's where you looe time and expend unecessary effort

>>as fast as you can manage a clutch
>there's where you looe time and expend unecessary effort
okay you fucking benchracer

>Nobody takes dragraces seriously either
Thats because all your cars are slow. Nothing wrong with an exhibition of speed from a stop showing the skill of a driver and the acceleration of their car.
>why would a manual clutch matter when a computer can do better launch control than you ever could
Because then its an automatic. IDC if the transmission is hydraulic or not, if your clutch is automatically actuated, regardless of your transmission, its an auto.

Even on a bike you still are manually shifting clutch or not. In an electrohydraulic you can never be 100% manual. Hence, its an auto.
>there's where you looe time and expend unecessary effort
and that is what makes the difference between a manual and an automatic. that third pedal famalam. Being in complete control.

>People often say "standards" are clunky and uncomfortable rides because they don't realize the synchros force you to either shift really slow or have good timing with the clutch
A manual will ride just as smoothly as anything else if you actually know what you're doing.

See they summed it up well.

>if "electrohydraulic" is still a manual to you, then sure. I call it an automatic.
Like I said VW DSG is an automatic. BMW SMG is exactly the same transmission as the manual versions of the car. The clutch works exactly how it does in the manual version as well. The only difference is the clutch is controlled electrohydraulically.

Technically it is a manual.

>Do motorcycles have a clutch?
Yes, and so do the sequential manual gearboxes that I was talking about in the first place .

Clutch control is a subconscious part of driving with practice. The vast majority of people who drive manual are not consciously thinking about it.

>showing the skill of a driver
>drag races
>coming from a braindead monkey who argues for automatics too

holy shit these people exist?

>clutch is controlled electrohydraulically.
>Technically it is a manual.
No, its a manual transmission with an automatic clutch. Thats not a manual no matter how you say it. Manual=clutch. You can't ignore one part of the system being automatic.
>Yes, and so do the sequential manual gearboxes that I was talking about in the first place
Difference is you pull the lever, not an automatic computer.

>I'm not the autofag
And yes, drag racing is a skill...unless you drive a faggy auto. Then its just IRL benchracing with a computer doing the work for you.

Proper launch, clutch and throttle control, shift timing, etc. is enjoyable to compete against others.

Being a manual is defined by the gearbox actually.

>Difference is you pull the lever, not an automatic computer.
You're the one pulling the lever when using a BMW SMG as well, just so you know.

Look, I don't really like BMW SMGs either, but saying they're automatic gearboxes is ridiculously stupid.

>Even on a bike you still are manually shifting clutch or not. In an electrohydraulic you can never be 100% manual. Hence, its an auto.
So when you shift gear in a motorcycle without using the clutch it's a manual, but if a car with the same type of transmission does that, then it's an automatic?

Do you really not see the absurdity in what you're saying?

>You can shift buttery smooth but you'll also shift melting-butter slow. The term "rowing gears" really means something here. People dislike that. It's a limitation in the design of the transmission.
Get a self driving car then because then you don't crash by accidentally pressing the accelarator instead of brake, by putting the car in r and hitting accelaration by accident, you don't get crushed because you operate auto gearbox wrong and you don't have to deal with all these annoying gas pedals and brake pedals and steering wheels and those blinking light things and changing lanes and looking at the road and all

Besides self driving cars are WAY WAY faster than humans and are as close to perfection as physically possible.
Don't you want to go fast? Why are you driving a shitty car you have to operate yourself? Lmao you are slow and retarded.
>self driving cars for city, track, weekend use
>manual cars for project

>Do you really not see the absurdity in what you're saying?
Name a single "manual" that shifts automatically without using a clutch.
>but saying they're automatic gearboxes is ridiculously stupid.
Automatic transmission systems, the gearbox is manual, the system as a whole is not
>the fucking thing will shift for you for christ's sake

>Computer does not shift on its own
>"it's an auto because you're not MANLY if you don't press a clutch pedal"

lol okay

I've done drag racing.
It's boring as fuck. 99& about the car not the skill
And it literally takes 1% of the skill it takes in doing a circuit.

Drag racing is a watered down simplifified form of racing that lets people who can't drive win when they cars are more powerful. It's literally the ideal racing for americans who need everything, even gear boxes, dumbed down for them.

Euros use manuals and don't drag race.
Coincidence? I think not.

>its an auto because the car automatically controls the largest component of shifting
ftfy. manual=no computer doing your work, hence automatic.
>99% about the car not the skill
kek, drag race two identical cars then. drag race an awd with less power vs a rwd. you are so full of it. drag racing manual transmissions is just as much an exhibition of skill as a raw show of power.
>Coincidence? I think not.
And i'm sure you guys circuit race at least once a day.

Clutches exist for releasing and clamping the transmission from the engine, the inertia of the flywheel spinning is what moves the car from a standstill plus engine speed, old military vehicles have really heavy flywheels so they are almost unstallable.

>Name a single "manual" that shifts automatically without using a clutch.
Without the clutch? Basically every motorcycle made in the last forty years using a preload technique or ignition cut, most high end racing transmissions, dog box manuals, etc.

Hell the car I'm building now you only use the clutch to get moving. After that you keep the throttle open and the ignition cuts so you can slam the gears in. Works almost exactly the same as a motorcycle.

>the fucking thing will shift for you for christ's sake
Not it doesn't. You're still doing the shifts. The ONLY part in that system that is automated is the clutch. Everything else in that system is IDENTICAL to the standard manual.

Not a bike where you have a sequential and don't use a clutch but to start, or a normal transmission where you double clutch or rev match. Tell me about how BMWs SMG lets you shift 100% without it automatically actuating the clutch.

How about this: Manual=No automated actions, period.

Is that a more fitting definition you can understand? BMW SMG is an auto.

And you can push the god damned lever into automode and the SMG will drive like an auto, 100%. 1st gear with auto selected is "D"

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The car will shift for you, the car always automates the clutch.

Sitting in traffic in a manual doesn't suck.

Sitting in in traffic uphill in a manual with people riding your ass is what sucks. Especially when the people in front constantly gun it and stop

>what is hill start assist
highly recommended.

>the clutch
>largest component of shifting
>literally an optional component for plebs that can't git gud

i can go clutchless in a fucking corolla

downshifts are easy too, but synchros really get in the way

>dogs
a little off, clunk
>synchros
nope, not going in, try again faggot, -50 miles off life of synchro

>he's never shifted a synchro'd manual without using a clutch and rev matching
>he isn't aware BMW's SMG will shift for you, and the clutch is always automatic
If the clutch or shifting is automated, its an automatic. Your semantics are trivial and petty and have no bearing to 99% of the world.

>he's never shifted a synchro'd manual without using a clutch and rev matching

i literally said i did

>On public roads you should focus on the road with both hands on the wheel
Leave this thread, bitch.

Have you ever actually used the automatic mode in something like an E46 M3? It feels and works basically nothing like an automatic.

>How about this: Manual=No automated actions, period.
Yes, move the goalposts that'll work nicely for you.

I'm not going to bother responding to you anymore. You're too dense to grasp what is and isn't considered a manual. I don't like BMW SMGs either, but like it or not they're technically manuals.

>Your semantics are trivial and petty
Oh the irony in you pointing out anyone else's "semantics." You've already changed your definitive be-all-end-all what makes or breaks a manual more than once in just this thread.

manual transmission, manual clutch ("plebian maximus")
manual transmission, automatic clutch ("i wish i was in F1")
automatic transmission, manual clutch (or "my car is trying to fucking kill me")
automatic transmission, automatic clutch (or "i wish i bought the CVT")

You can do it without griding or wearing your synchros too, up or down shift clutchless
>source: drove a car with a shot 2nd and 3rd synchro for years
>Have you ever actually used the automatic mode in something like an E46 M3? It feels and works basically nothing like an automatic.
Oh so it does shift for you
>goalposts
Oh the irony. I've always said no clutch, automated anything=auto. Manual is purely mechanical and human controlled.

Perhaps you are confusing me with the original guy. But then again, you forgot how a BMW SMG works so...suck it. Your SMG/DSG/flappy paddle is an auto.

git good and use a clutch boy

>Manual=No automated actions
oh yeah man fuck all those motogp bikes with their automated quickshifters the fags should ride manuals.

In old cars with old simple crappy automatics the auto will be noticeably down on power to the wheels.
In modern cars whose automatics are more like robot manuals it's more about whether the driver or the car's computer is smart or not. The computers are getting smarter and people are getting more retarded so on average the autos have the advantage.

Nothing wrong with have an automated transmission. Just know everyone laughs at you when you call your auto a manual yet lack a 3rd pedal.

That is all.

haha if you actually think motogp bikes are automatic because they use a quickshifter you are the stupidest motherfucker in this thread

>You can do it without griding or wearing your synchros too, up or down shift clutchless

Yes, it's called gitting gud. It's really hard to be gud at 3 in the morning though.

I was talking about you and your "manual" bud.

git good

no like fr
i had to write a research paper on driving schools here and in yuropland (im from there)
americucks do teach manuals as a distraction which makes no fucking sense

Motogp bikes have a clutch you stupid cunt.

Manuals are outdated garbage technology that only still exist for their low cost

Modern dual clutches and sequentials are much better

>when you call your auto a manual yet lack a 3rd pedal
Holy shit, that's just sad.
Sounds like they want to be different by driving a "manual", but lack the skill/ability to learn how to actually drive one.
So this is just a lame attempt to co-opt the term.

I really love these threads, they're the best.

>manual
>requiring skill
lol

Just look at the lengths this guy goes to to defend his technical claim that in fact his automatic clutch doesn't make it an auto.

Sad.
git gud autotragic buddy

If you scroll up he was responding to bmw/dsg being mentioned that and he said he doesn't like them I would be pretty confident saying he doesn't own one.

trained dogs can drive manual

you aren't special for being too poor for a dual clutch ;^)

>sequentials

show me on the car lot where you can get a sequential transmission capable of competing with a DCT

oh wait you fucking can't

manuals are dead outside of racecars and motorcycles

>wanting to own an automatic and lose control over the transmission of his car
I bet you enjoy electric power steering and ride that honda bike with an automatic transmission cuz ur not poor

I chose manual over SMG cuz fuck lap times, its about the experience. Why else would you own a sports car?