Is affordable healthcare objectively a human right?

Morality is in the intention of the act.

The UN was created after WW2 and although history repeats itself, absurdity doesn't condone nations to behave like barbarians killing each other over cycles of perceived desperation and power struggles.

I shouldn't be taxed heavier for a service I don't and won't use.

affordable healthcare for the sufferers on the ground breathing in chemicals from the sky.
makes perfect sense $$$

Please see Article 25 of some bullshit we made up just now HURR

Fuck off. Pay your bills.

Nothing is a human right and you people dont deserve to fucking live. Being such self-entitled little bitches

Nothing is objectively a human right.

"Rights" don't exist. Rights only exist when the government in power upholds them.

>Let me say I'm not indifferent to the plight of illegals

The "plight" of criminals breaking the law?

Which plight might that be?

It is absolutely not a right.

You cannot force a person to study medicine their entire lives and endure the financial and time investment of becoming a professional practioner just because you have a "right" to health care.

You have a right to pursue healthcare, however. Same thing applies with education.

You're drawing a false parallel between the expected income from the practictioner and the cost of healthcare when in fact basic healthcare is a human right.

Most posts in this thread show alot of misantrophy and this is what happens when a society doesn't have strong fundamentals in making ironclad insurance compulsory with the industry keeping business as usual from insurance companies that are meant to protect citizens instead of making a profit off of them, what we're seeing instead is just kicking out the bad elements and maintaining quality life and healthcare for those who can afford it without realizing that there's some deprecation in the middle when the bill is essentially arbitrary and let's not even talk about big pharma and overpopulation.

Alot problems in society stem from the lack of healthcare essentially because it's this same fear and instability tied to income rather than being covered by an umbrella not as some freeloader abusive of the system, but it's to apply our activity in society in the most efficient way, even if it's just living in the best health possible.

TLDR living instead of surviving. /wall of text

>when in fact basic healthcare is a human right.

Says who?

Human rights are social constructs upheld by those in power.

You're free to consider yourself an animal, however since you're under a nation which respects the charter of human rights, you're expected to behave yourself as a human with respect to your kin at least on the outside, now you can always go ahead and construct your own understanding of not abiding to those in power and be your own dehumanized autority - bear in mind that without your basic human rights you wouldn't be able to do that and you'd be subjected even more to "those in power" provided you'd be born in the first place.

What are you even trying to say?

I'm just saying that your argument of "But X is a basic human right!" is retarded. There are no inherent human rights.

It's a terrible argument.

That alot of them are trying to do what's best for their families. When we think of torture and beheadings we think Middle East but that shits a hop skip and away. Obviously the true criminals gotta go. Also you can thank them for why a lot of them for why our food is so cheap. We seem to forget that.

Lose the edge kid. The world isn't so black and white.

I know you linked le UN meme but that doesn't matter at all.

The Geneva Convention prohibits the use of the certain methods of war too. But who exactly is going to enforce this law? Some bureaucrats in Switzerland?

>That alot of them are trying to do what's best for their families

Yeah that's sad and all but a country has the right and duty to protect its borders.

Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. It doesn't matter what their reasoning is, they are breaking the law. A serious one at that.

>Lose the edge kid. The world isn't so black and white.
There is absolutely nothing edgy about wanting people to follow the legal procedures in place in order to immigrate.

Do you know what happens to Illegal Immigrants in Mexico? Do some research

>Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

I'll concede that I may have some bias since I studied in Switzerland, in fact the original declaration of human rights was created after the French revolution because of the inhumane treatment of the proleteriat by the monarchy, but let me just say that we don't need an authority to dictate our own humanity and it takes recognizing your own ethical humanity in considering humans as universal, genocides happened because of dehumanization of an oppressed group of people.

Nobody is going to enforce the laws in being human except your own self. Laws generally can also be interpreted in various ways. Since you mentioned the Geneva Convention, I'll also draw a parallel with the Stanford prison experiment and Milgram which essentially shows the nefariousness of blind obedience to power when every man is responsible for his own self, lest be subjected to the will of a higher authority.

Mexico's illegal immigration laws are literally much tougher than the US's.

So why is it wrong for the US to enforce its borders and laws?

Human rights SHOULD be upheld, but being entitled to someone else's expertise and resources isn't a human right.

You have a right to receive healthcare but you don't have a right to force people to pay for it or provide it to you.

I agree with you, it's illegal. I'm not arguing that. I don't see why you nitpicked that one thing in what I was saying earlier though? The thread is about universal health care. I stated citizens come first and stand by that. There's nothing wrong with feeling empathy towards people.

I'm certain that social security and profitability can be combined, but it's not applied essentially because of the inequity in the value of citizenship strata. Education just like healthcare can remain business, but instead of paying directly a buffer is needed (not necessarily government owned); better insurance systems.

This thread is full of edgelords that think they can survive in society alone when they're likely still living with their parents

Perhaps.

I don't think it's too bad as it is though. The US has world-class healthcare and the highest cancer and other serious disease survival rates in the world.

That's a finely crafted strawman, my friend.

I don't think everything has to be profitable as much as sustainable.

Subways are notoriously unprofitable but help facilitate the economy of major cities. Highways don't make money but are the lifeblood of nearly all industry in the US. Why should social security and health care make a profit? That just seems to introduce a middle man to skim money off the top and to jack up costs. Also, just because national health care is a thing doesn't mean private health care disappears. The UK has NHS and private health care for those who feel the need.

commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2015/oct/us-spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations

Your cancer statement is true but we have it backwards. American's tend to wait until it's bad to see the doctor instead of going for routing examinations that could catch these issues earlier. Not only is that cheaper but it's way more effective to catch something early than to treat it when it's bad.

So you don't have a right to live because you don't have health insurance...

>Please see Article 25 of some bullshit we made up just now
When the thread's asking about human rights, the document listing the things that nearly every country has agreed to be human rights trumps anything else!

>HURR
Go sleep it off!

>Fuck off. Pay your bills.
Not everyone lives in a country that imposes bills on everyone for healthcare.

Positive rights don't exist.

>So you don't have a right to live because you don't have health insurance...

You don't have a right to force another human being to work to prolong your existence, any more than you have a right to have other human beings work to provide you with food, water, or any other means of survival. This is fundamentally contradictory to the nature of our existence as sovereign, independent consciousnesses. You aren't entitled to have other people work as your slaves simply because they have something and you want it. You should, can, and will justify your continued existence by producing something of value and using that product as the basis of voluntary exchanges to secure the provisions you need to survive.

It's ridiculous mental gymnastics like these that make me long for the inevitable total social and economic collapse of modern society. We need to thin out the herd and those of you who produce nothing except couching your pseudo-intellectual rationalizations of why you are entitled to have others take care of you under self-righteous banners like "human rights" will be the first to go. Good riddance.

Fuck no its not

The truth is you have a right to whatever you can take or convince other people to give you. Their may be consequences their may not be. But there really are no rules we're making them up as we go a long. If you can sell a story you can make the rules

Nobody gives a shit about an agreement made in non-governing peace talk land. It means nothing it isn't even close to a valid point.

If you live in a country with high taxes that already provides many services, that's nice. The US has low taxes. People should save for their medical issues or contribute to an HSA account. Taxes low, HSA option available therefore UN agreement is met. It doesn't mean we go create a giant government run insurance company daddy state.

I like the idea. But it just fucking expensive now that all the country has to pay for all the nutrition mistakes fat people does, also drug addicts.

If i ruled the country, i would revoke the "right" for the people that doesn't take care of themselves. You have the right of eating and drinking all you want, but it isn't our obligation to pay for your health problems that YOU yourself caused. Sorry for my bad english

Obviously they are retard, but that doesn't take any value away.

Food, water, shelter, healthcare. These are the minimum things that are required so we aren't standing around while American Citizens die. If you're totally fine with a homeless man dieing from a ruptured appendix because they couldn't figure out who was going to pay for it then you're as unAmerican as they come.

Republicans pretend that they care about the flag and shit, but all they give a fuck about is "muh property" and "muh freedom". Fucking retards. That could easily be you someday.

It is a human right in Canada, feels good living in a 1st world country and not in bugerland.

Now, nobody says its "free". But healthcare is a human right in the effect that the government is supposed to collect taxes from its citizens and distribute them towards healthcare to serve the needs of the population. Of course you can ask why not just pay for your own, but the reality is some people will just not be able to afford to pay, while others can. Living in a human society you make an agreement that you don't want to see elderly or handicapped people dying on the streets from preventable diseases (or even the freeloaders - hurr durr), its beyond my understanding how burgers still don't get it.

Yes we get it, you want free shit

With 24k taxes paid per year just from my jerb + lots of other taxes, "free shit" is not in the menu. I do however enjoy living in a civilized society where people unnable to work are not dying on the streets. I've visited NY for a weekend, and holy shit the amount of homeless and crazies was insane. Guess thats what you get when its every man for themselves - some people don't make it.

No. Humans don't deserve anything if they don't know each other. Sharing is a matter of trust. I don't mind helping my family once in a while, but paying someone from my tax dollars I don't know and probably wouldn't like to know doesn't deserve anything

this.

The only reason people are claiming it's a "right" is because costs are so outrageous. Universal care is exactly what the corrupt feds are baiting us into.

You should be able to walk into a hospital without insurance and pay out of pocket for most general care. It's bullshit that insurance has become an absolute necessity, not that we're not giving it to everyone.

We should instead have predatory private insurance industry that hides behind an army of bureaucracy and can deny and drop for whatever reason they want.

Baiting into what?

Universal Healthcare AKA trillions of new federal money for the insiders to finesse

Without property and freedom you wouldn't have civilization as we know it. Kys

correct.

You can't have a human right that contradicts and violates another human right.

Yes but there should be requirements that are equated to how much you can get.

ie. you make 20k/y you get basic healthcare, nutritional education and physchological treatment (maybe emergency treatment for life threatening illness)

no

human rights cannot be things which force others to provide you a service

I hate to agree with a leaf but this post sums it up nicely

Freedom isn't free, user.

no, but forcing fat asses to eat properly in fat prison might be.