/smtg/ - 真・女神転生/Shin Megami Tensei General (Nocturne Is Superior Edition)

celtic god of death

Everything your dad never was.

I meant his true form, you jokers but I guess he just hated being put into form rather than being a concept

Startin' in this saga with SMT IV and I LOVE IT.

pay attention
all the deities are just concepts interpreted by humans

He's the god of Agriculture, so probably some hippie bullshit like the weather.

That's incredibly depressing.

>Dagda spends the entire game being an uncooperative edgelord who just glooms every time he speaks and basically says he's going to murder everyone
>the only time he shows his actual ideology and mindset is after you make the choice

They really, really wanted you to go Bonds.

And they still failed. Hahahaha

>Dagda's Kitchen
That's a good doujin.

just makes me not want to.

Has Kaneko done art for anything recently? I want to see how its evolved.

He explains his plan before you decide. What do you mean? He even specifies that you'll be making a new world. What do you think he doesn't show til after? The only thing that only happens after is him being nicer to you since you are on his side, and he literally gets filled with rage upon seeing someone disagree with him.

Presumably wind and rain, since that's what he gets really emotional when mentioning.

He explains a very small glimpse of the reasons behind his mindset in one line right before you have to choose between him and Bonds, and you don't really get to see the side of him that isn't "everything fucking sucks kill everyone kozo" until either your betrayal or joining him. Hell, Stephen doesn't even explain the power of observation until you kill Krishna, even though it would also largely benefit Dagda's side of the argument

That doesn't really change that the game is clearly Bonds-favored for 95% of the story

they probably mean why he has his views. a good chunk of his true colors (actually not a simple edgelord) and reasons to sympathize with him don't show until after the decision.

He drew Jack Frost as part of some anniversary thing. I think it was on that Tumblr page for his art.

Also say what you will about Tumblr, but those pages that collect artwork from game artists are good shit.

Its true that his explanations are scattered, but he does give you the full explanation you need before the split. Even though some of it is danu responding to him by explaining what he means. If you watch all the scenes with him a few times, the details fill eachother in.

He says that influence is a poison. That people should think as individuals. So he wants to fundamentally shift the human consciousness to a self oriented one that doesn't have "bonds" with others to the same degree, thus diminishing peer pressure, and focuses on their own self (also be way more likely to be selfish assholes it seems). This should be obvious from the many times he says "influence is a poison" "making friends is a waste of time" etc. However, this change is so fundamental that it changes how humans interact and process observation. This he hopes will make the new world a wasteland for gods because gods are born from collective ideas, and so now collective ideas are no longer a thing to the same degree, since people simply don't connect to eachother to the same degree anymore. Since gods represent groups, this lack of bonds to others is the same thing as a lack of influence from gods. Since gods are effectively a representation for groups. Danu points out that this makes people into their own god, since now they represent their own idea individually instead of as a group. And observation is done individually instead of as a group. Unfortunately this would make for a very lonely world. And sounds like it leans chaos but that that is handwaved. The ambiguity is how much he really cares about this versus it being necessary to ensure he is more likely to stay inert.

I don't know what you think he says after the split that elucidates this. All of it was said before.

>That doesn't really change that the game is clearly Bonds-favored for 95% of the story

Bonds is your normal neutral end. The entire SERIES is flavored like this. Its not going to change now.

Why he is the way he is and why to sympathize with him makes sense to not be after the split though. You already know the plan more or less. The additional deeper information about his character and the two ways it is shown make sense to place later on so that there's something left to find out about him.

>The entire SERIES is flavored like this.
Not really. Oh, wait, I should write like you:
NO it is NOT

>some fag keeps voting for P3-4 ironically

Urgh...

Both ends were supposed to be neutral. Also one ending has never been portrayed as the only way to go. Literally everyone who wasn't Bonds were villainized. It's never been that extreme.

...

>Also one ending has never been portrayed as the only way to go.
True Demon?

I'm not sure what series you've been playing, but the down to earth ending is always depicted as more positive. Atlus is pretty clear which ending it wants you to think is the good one. Neutral endings are always depicted as mostly positive, despite sequels and vague plausible deniability admitting they aren't, whereas law and chaos is usually about biting bullets that would make more sense as depictions if there was only two routes or the third was similar in tone.

Both are neutral, but one resembles standard neutral endings more, and one is meant to be the "neutral taken to an extreme" that imagine talked about but we were never shown as a route before. (unless you want to loosely count musubi). This is worse than normal, but its not like it came out of left field. The entire series has a history of presenting one route as the favored route. And side games like DDS2 even refer to the villians as order and chaos based, and have people in your party talk about wanting a balanced route between them. Despite not having routes at all. This is just them dropping the act of subtlety and coming off like they are satirizing themself, except unironically.

That's the ending with the best content. Its not the ending that the game implies is morally the best. It also doesn't coherently fit into the narrative since it was crammed into a game that wasn't written for it.

DeSu 2's Golden Ending, then?

He literally becomes just weather at the end of the game. I thought that was sweet, no idea why people are so pissy about it.

That is probably closer. I'm not them, but I don't think their point was about whether there's a best ending. But about whether a game only has one ending that's depicted as good at all. In desu2, there's a few positive endings. In apocalypse there's two early bad endings, one "it might kind of make sense from a really bizarre perspective, but in actuality you're a crazy asshole" ending, and only one positive ending.

I don't get why people think this is new though. In pretty much every game, law and chaos are depicted like bad endings that maybe you can see as positive if you are coming from the right angle. Massacre is only marginally more blatant about it.

>However, this change is so fundamental that it changes how humans interact and process observation

The problem in this is that again you only understand how observation works after Vishnu-Flynn even though it shows a factual effect of self-dependency (mainly the relation about human and gods) that Dagda is aware of and acknowledges, but doesn't mention at all until the cosmic egg, you simply get some very vague "bonds just suck" you'd generally expect from shadow the hedgehog fanfictions even though the actual discussion between Danu and Dagda about dependency and humans is interesting and has actual ambiguity, all you say is easy to understand in retrospect, but you never get an in-depth focus into this until after the choice

>I don't know what you think he says after the split that elucidates this. All of it was said before.

For exemple, Dagda shows a huge interest in human willpower in Anarchy, which is shown in the battle against Vishnu-Flynn and YHVH, and seem to hold it in very high regards. Again, he shows constantly he favors individuality, or rather abhors making friends, but the power to "forge your own path" is suddenly told at the very end of the game

Obviously SMT have always favored one ending over the other, Chaos is blatantly set as the good guys in SMT2 for exemple, but my main problem is that the actual ambiguity about the different sides is barely explored until the very end, which is actually sorta new for the series, and is a bit of a waste

You aren't given the details on a platter, but in what game are you even? In most games you're given a loose rundown of the general idea of the plan without an underlying description of what its being done for, what the result is meant to emphasize, etc.

>For exemple, Dagda shows a huge interest in human willpower in Anarchy, which is shown in the battle against Vishnu-Flynn and YHVH, and seem to hold it in very high regards. Again, he shows constantly he favors individuality, or rather abhors making friends, but the power to "forge your own path" is suddenly told at the very end of the game

That's just adding nuance to his point, not something that wasn't mentioned at all before then. He mentioned being a true individual, and steven tells you that he wants people to pursue freedom themselves as opposed to with others. He already talks about wanting humans to become more than human. What he's emphasizing is left ambiguous, but so what? The ending would have been pretty similar without him emphasizing will at those times, since its just a more specific description of what he's been saying all along. Which is done more for the narrative to to shit on krishna and gods in general than it does add to knowledge of his point.

"Pure nature" or one with the universe as he said. Human observation trapped him in a god-shaped shell where he would otherwise be formless.

> Chaos is blatantly set as the good guys in SMT2 for exemple

No they're not? This is something people came up with who only remembered the end cutscenes, but in the middle of chaos lucifer uses the dragon to destroy most of the surface. Its glossed over, but there's no analogue to this on neutral. You see him free the mutants at the end of chaos, but the game doesn't tell you explicitly that you didn't on neutral. On the neutral ending there is no negative scene thrown into it, but there is one for chaos.

Is this real? I need it.

Yes.
toranoana.jp/mailorder/article/04/0030/41/30/040030413058.html

Is it scanlated yet?

No. Why would it be?

Considering how Tokyo Millenium, The Center and their relationship toward the Underworld work, Lucifer is set as the good guy in all of this yes, especially where pretty much all of his dialog is about stopping a mad genocidal god from wiping out life on earth
Neutral gives very little closure on what happens, you can't deny Chaos has a much more hopeful tone and is much more substantial

Does anyone have the picture from that old shin megameme tensei rageface alignment shitpost? I don't want to have to look back years to find it.

I did it, friends no more. Can i play Soul Hackers now?

If you're autistic enough to play soul hackers, I don't beleive you had friends in the first place.

GATHER MORE DEMONS

OOOOOOOOOOH

Make sure you bring more MACCA next time!

The lawfag versus the chaosfag one?

It had different sections for different memes to be categorized by alignment.

SMT heroes when?

Go Hacker, go.

AND COME AGA-

WELC-
AND COM-

Well I don't know.

Have the official alignment chart of beverages as compensation.

I remember this.

Oh shit, this was one year ago? Time flies.

>one year
I'm retarded.

December 2015... shit, it really does fly.

But those were fun times.

Wait that's month/day/year? I thought it was day/month/year.

year 2041?

I'm not even sure what you're trying to imply. It's clearly year 2015, I just thought the order was day/month/year.

Yeah, that's how Veeky Forums and the US settles their dates.

Veeky Forums automatically shows the current time and date to the viewer not according uniquely to America. Right now it's 17:22 pm.

what an absolute fucking idiot

pls be real

I HAVE INDEED RECEIVED IT

wat

Yeah I've noticed but this doesn't happen to the date, at least not for me. You can check yesterday's thread to prove it.
But whatever, it's no big deal.

It appear's normally for me. Normal yuropoor date style: day/month/year. Yesterday was 01/02/17.

ONE

MORE

PENIS

DESIGNED

Why didn't Dagda just drop an asteroid on YHVH?

he needs a godslayer to be the one dropping the asteroid or else the god will revive

Why didn't you just throw the Ring into the sun?

no mt2 no vote

I got myself a 3DS recently and I'm torn between playing SMTIV or Soul Hackers first. I've played Nocturne, P3FES and P4 so far.

SMT IV.

IV. SH really isn't that good.

I'll save you.

I'm not a kid anymore!

>hits for 120 damage

IV is way closer to what to what you're used to with Nocturne and Persona (and better than them IMO). Soul Hackers is way more simplistic and dated.

IV is a nationalistic shounen shitstain on mainline
SH is SMT at it's apex

>nationalistic
nothing wrong with that

All SMT games are 10/10. You can't go wrong with either.

>nationalistic
The ultimate cause behind everything going to shit in IVA was a Japanese ultranationalist.

>nationalism
>bad

>thinking that atlus wasn't nationalistic until IV.

user...

who's America's Masakado

George Washington.