Common Ancestry vs Common Designer

Wouldn't this be more of a science than history question? Why is it here?

Evolution isn't a ladder, it's a tree. Every species is its own branch. We aren't literally evolved from gorillas, gorillas are their own branch that grew off the same limb we did, millions of years back. Whatever creature we diverged from is long extinct, but just because a new species emerges from a population doesn't necessarily mean the original population will die out.

Talk of 'designers' is not scientific.

Veeky Forums is the Christ board, right?

davidpratt.info/ape1.htm

Okay, yesterday I have an user tell me statistics is stupid and not needed to understand the world, and now there's a thread on creationism?

Is Veeky Forums quite possibly one of the stupidest boards?

That's /pol/

Thought they were frog-worshippers.

Or the most brilliant.

/pol/ is mostly atheists. But they're the only board that tolerates christians because typical leftists are bigoted zealots.

that said, this thread is still retarded.

...

>Common Designer
???

> first sentence
> According to mainstream science, humans are evolved apes who, as a result of random genetic mutations and environmental pressures, happened to acquire the unique power of selfconsciousness.

> humans are evolved apes
No
> unique power of selfconsciousness
Unknowable.

Trash.

Veeky Forums is pretty bad.

>lit is bad
I'd be willing to believe it. /mu/ and Veeky Forums are probably pretty fucking dumb too, but at least they wouldn't parade around how smart they are like Veeky Forums would

Should note this man has no formal education in the sciences from what I could gather. Theologian most likely.

...

I like how OP used "common" instead of "intelligent".

>giving whales partial femur bones
>palmarus longus in humans
> ubiquitous presence of ADP ATP and NAD NADH.

>whale partial pelvises
answersingenesis.org/human-body/vestigial-organs/vestigial-structures/
>palmarus longus
answersingenesis.org/human-body/vestigial-organs/vestigial-organs-really-proof-of-evolution-on-your-body/
>ADP etc
answersingenesis.org/origin-of-life/primordial-soup/powerless-primordial-soup-dead-in-water/

Never underestimate them, user.

There are no environmental factors pushing their gene pool to adapt to humans

Half christ half commie

humans stayed apes for millions of years you gigantic retard. Modern apes are descended from simian ancestors that we have found. holy fuck

Common ancestry is observationally reinforced. The only reason you would think otherwise is a lack of education or a lack of ability to perceive.

If you think apes should have evolved into humans, well, not only did that happen, but modern apes such as a chimpanzee are perfectly suited to their environment, where humans do not thrive so comfortably. Thinking humans are inherently a "higher" form is a baseless line of thinking.

...

most adaptation is driven by intra-species competition. inter-species competition tends to create extinction, rather than arms races.

In millions of years when Africa dries up the apes will have to learn to walk or go extinct.

do americans actually believe in YEC?

>You don't see them evolving into humans.

>evolution clearly has a goal though

Besides allowing organisms to adapt to their natural environment there is none

>the people who push evolution the hardest also believe in human genetic equality

Because biologists out of all people can tell you that human races have no fucking basis, and that the variations between ethnic groups is ridiculously small. Also they will tell you that genetic meltic pot is benefic at a genetic level and reduces chances to get cancer, etc

If humans races are not real then all humans would look exactly the same. Biologist are forced to lie to keep up the politically correct WE ARE ALL THE SAME bullshit.

>Whatever creature we diverged from is long extinct

the point of divergion was somewhere between chimpanzee and gorilla

You think chimpanzees would evolve into an alternate "human" species or at least just another bipedal ape?

speak for yourself

Dogs are all the same species as the wolf. Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens health (now extinct) is the same species as the archaic Homo sapiens. it's not that they're saying we're all alike, it's more along the lines of "we're too inbred to be considered a separate subspecies from each other". Humans have an astonishingly low genetic diversity rating compared to other mammals. Even chimpanzees have more diversity on the genetic scale.

>health

*idaltu

Look up H. sapiens idaltu, looks like a taller, more robust human.

only homo here is you

google telos.

organisms have increased in complexity. it's very clear that complexity itself is one of the end-points of evolution, as increasing complexity itself ensures survival.

the goal of evolution odesn't have to be the goal of any organism, nd it doesn't have to be a goal you understand with your 80 iq point brain.

but evolution does have a goal. it's a goal built into exothermic processes.

you are an idiot and you completely misunderstand how genetics works.

as the genetic profile becomes narrower, it takes smaller differences in order to cause a difference. a bump in the concrete is normal, but a bump in glass is a flaw.

there are more genetic differences between two yeast cells than between a human and a chimpanzee. that doesn't mean that humans and chimpanzees, therefore, are the same species.

Veeky Forums really is the stupidest fuckng board.

Why do people even bother with this shit after the 20th century finding in DNA/Genetics? Religious groups and their motives (im thinking ken ham tier stuff here) would be better served arguging about other things in science desu

Organisms increase in complexity because it's a byproduct of evolving to survive. Achieving greater complexity is not a goal.

The differences between races are too significant for us to not be subspecies.

Common ancestor
There is no evidence to lead to the theory that there ever was a designer, much less a deity

telos isn't a goal in that strict defiition of the word. telos is something that is INEVITABLE.

it is INEVITABLE that the organisms that will survive more over time will be more complex because it is INEVITABLE that sensory input and processing lends advantages. thereforet he COMPLEXITY of that sensory input and processing also becomes inevitable.

that is TELOS. no unsensing organism larger than a single cell is capable of outcompeting a sensing one. consciousness itself is the inevitable result of a universe in which exotropy exists.

a goal isn't the right word because it implies intentionality. it has a direction. evolution clearly has a direction. one that has constraints and unchanging rules. it is directional, inevitable, unchangeable, and immutable. it has a goal without intention. a telos. it's not "random."

evolution is a stochastic process. stochasticity has a very clear pattern and inevitable result.

>there are more genetic differences between two yeast cells than between a human and a chimpanzee. that doesn't mean that humans and chimpanzees, therefore, are the same species.

Except yeast isn't a single species and it's not even a phylogenetic group you retard. The only evolutionary past that all yeast species have in common is that they're fungi. Of course yeast have greater diversity in genetics compared to two hominids or even two humans. The argument that yeast species are more genetically diverse than two humans of different ethnicities means absolutely nothing. It's like saying Russia isn't big because the galaxy is 100,000 lightyears across.

Okay, but the argument was that evolution doesn't have a goal other than allowing organisms to survive, and you (or some other user) said that it does.

Subspecies, as with many taxonomic ranks that aren't species, is completely arbitrary.

I was exaggerating a difference to make a point. as organism complexity increases, finer differences in genetic code code fore larger differences in behavior and morphology, which means that the "genetic % argument" for saying tha there aren't human species is bullshit.

I'll use a better example, within a species of salamander there is greater diversity of genes than between two DIFFERENT species of lizards, which is the next big division.

as the phylogenic branches begin to become more finely tuned, smaller differences in genes code for larger differences in morphology and behavior.

anotehr good example is how elephants and elephant shrews are more closely related than two varieties of salmon. every sigle gene matters.

GOAL taken in the vernacular sense implies intentionality. a GOAL is also a DESTINATION without intentionality.

so evolution does have a goal in a very clear sense. it just doesn't have a will.

saying evolution has NO goal is itself misleading, because it implies evolution is random. evolution is NOT random.

Archaea are much the same as they were a billion years ago.

Intelligent is heresy invented to destroy the faith. It's proponents are destined for hellfire for rejecting the Lord's means.

The only people that your logic might apply to are the Khoisan, various Pygmy groups in Africa and Asia who aren't related to each other, and Australian Aborigines, all of which are older than dirt. Even then, they have more in common with each other than two chimps in the same rainforest (generically that is). Hell, there are even visible chimpanzee races and subspecies out there, and that's not even including bonobos.

>that there arent human specie
I never said that. Literally every species in the genus Homo is technically human, but we are the only members of our genus still alive: Homo sapiens. We don't even have a true subspecies anymore, as either they were absorbed into the population or just died out. Neanderthals, a separate species, was capable of having fertile children with us (though sapiens males couldn't have fertile children with Neanderthal women apparently), as were a few other species, but as of right now those groups are considered different species from us, rather than a subspecies, due to having more genetic differences.

your argument is retarded. as minute differences in molecular arrangements begin to make larger differences, they also contribute to competetive environments where smaller differences in DNA define competetive and noncompetetive, as well as larger outcomes in terms of fatal mutations.

humans have one of the highest rates of spontaneous miscarriage of any life form that we are aware of. why? because smaller differences create much larger outcomes.

if you want to use the autosomal distance of a bananna or a shrew in order to define species difference for a human, whose molecular boundaries, breeding distance, ideal inbreeding range, epigenetic data, predatory genes, whose 'junk' dna plays alarger role in evolution, etc, are COMPLETELY different, you're a fucking retard.

oh, yeah, we also have higher amounts of 'junk' dna than almost any other species on the planet. it's typically discounted in 'similarity' masures, but it actually CODES FOR PROTEIN.

it's obvious you have no idea what you're talkng about. shut up, and be humble, and you'd be ale to learn. but you probably won't.