How racist was Rhodesia?

I just want to say right now, I'm not trying to stir shit up, I just want some information

Ever since I became interested in Rhodesia a while ago, there's a couple things that just don't add up; One of which is the subject of racism

I've heard numerous conflicting viewpoints, on how since Ian Smith was an on-fire racist that the entire country was obviously just as racist. But the further I dug the more I saw this wasn't true.

The BSAP and BSAC for instance, helped settle inter-tribe disputes, and were more like a general peacekeeping force than an authoritarian police force

Also worth noting is how the Matabele and Mashona tribes were able to hold positions of power in the government and Rhodesia's version of parliament/congress. Black Africans were also able to join the military, and serve in branches such as the Rhodesian African Rifles and Selous Scouts

But through all of this, the questions still remains unanswered, where they overly racist, and if so, how?
The only conclusion I seem to draw is that they were better off than South Africa, and most likely North America

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Not at all. They were just race realists. Blacks were allowed to participate in government but none were fit. Ian smith made it clear he fought against Marxism not black Africans. The Rhodesian army was a volunteer force and mostly made up by blacks.

Not to say there was no prejudice between races. Africans didn't understand that they were different from Anglos and we're obviously jealous.

That's the other side that I've heard, and it's the one that sounded the most reasonable.

If I remember correctly, the blacks were also able to attend schools and becomes learned, buy land, and essentially have the same rights of the whites.

unlike south africa, there were no laws about keeping blacks in ghettos or out of the government. They simply recognized the reality of the situation that most blacks were ooga booga tribal retards since ever since the 1800s, they refused, sometimes violently, to being educated by the British overlords.

But they also werent stubborn anti-black racist either. If a black person did show they were capable for a job or position, there was no real reason to stop them.


The country was taken over by Chinese puppet dindu armies who took over the country in order to bring it into their sphere of influence, while they were hung out to dry by their """"allies"""" and plunged into arguably the shittiest country on earth. When it once was the most propurous nation in Africa at the time.

On paper no, but they made no attempt to try and educate the black population. Saying that you'd allow blacks into higher positions if they got an education was all well and good but Smith really dragged his feet into facilitating that.

Why didn't black people do it themselves? Why do they need whitey to do everything?

>80% of the black population is rural due to the neglect of British rule
>60% of the black population on top of that was tribal and had no representation other than tribal leaders in Congress
>UDI Rhodesia also constantly at war in the bush
>thinking it is viable to educate people in the bush who don't want to be educated
You're basically sending them on a suicide mission to educate rural Africans who have no use for it.

A lot less racist than South Africa. Yet somehow South Africa got to keep on existing with Apartheid until 1994. While Rhodesia got to exist till 1979. Even when the reorganized into Zimbabwe Rhodesia and enfranchised all the blacks, it wasn't enough.

>why don't illiterate jungle dwelling niggers just teach themselves quantum physics Christ why do they need whitey to hold their hand for everything
/you/

Rhodesia left the tribal Africans alone. Except during the bush wars. When they rounded them up into camps. To both protect them against communists and to prevent them from being conscripted by the communists.

If the blacks wanted to participate in the nation. Then they had to abandon their tribal ways and become a modern western man.

They censored all information and archaeologists who indicated that Great Zimbabwe was built by Africans. That should tell you a lot about their position on racial equality.
According to Paul Sinclair
>"I was the archaeologist stationed at Great Zimbabwe. I was told by the then-director of the Museums and Monuments organisation to be extremely careful about talking to the press about the origins of the [Great] Zimbabwe state. I was told that the museum service was in a difficult situation, that the government was pressurising them to withhold the correct information. Censorship of guidebooks, museum displays, school textbooks, radio programmes, newspapers and films was a daily occurrence. Once a member of the Museum Board of Trustees threatened me with losing my job if I said publicly that blacks had built Zimbabwe. He said it was okay to say the yellow people had built it, but I wasn't allowed to mention radio carbon dates... It was the first time since Germany in the thirties that archaeology has been so directly censored."

>Why would rural farming tribals need to know anything about algebra much less quantum physics
ftfy

>DEY IS NAZIS AND SHIET
pathetic source

>muh feel feels

You're missing the point. If they are in a servere state of under development they really have no choice other than relying on whites for education. It's like telling a minimum wage employee to pull himself up by his bootstraps and just open his own franchise of McDonald's if he wants to be rich.

How did the early white rhodesian settlers set up schools if nobody was there to do it for them? Really induces a higher state of thought.

So you're saying black people cant be successful with the help of whites? How did white people even get successful in the first place?

It's almost as if early white Rhodesian settlers came from an already advanced society with a vast body of knowledge with established teachers...and didn't have to rely on an outside culture to educate them...

Huh makes me think

How did the people in the advanced societies become so advanced if no one else did it for them?

>rural and tribal farmers
>caring about unemployment

You're an idiot.

Thousands of years of development?

Yes. Nigger primitives in the Rhodesian bush couldn't exactly "educate themselves" without relying on whites simply as a result of their development. Claiming they were "relying on whitey" for education and should have done it themselves is the equivalent of sending primary school children to school without teachers to instruct them. How in the fuck is this even a controversial statement?

Dumb.

What were Africans doing while whites were developing?

So why did they kick out whites? They seemed to be really reliant on them

>say "Hey we'll educate the black population so they can be on equal footing with us"
>never do this
>actively sabotage attempts by third parties and NGOs to do this
>"heheh guess they just aren't cut out for positions of power :^)"

>So why did they kick out whites? They seemed to be really reliant on them
I don't know. Plenty of black Rhodesians fought against Mugabe though. Either way the mentality of "dumb niggers should just educate themselves instead of relying on whitey to do it" is clearly fucking stupid.

>So why did they kick out whites?

No on likes to be treated like second class citizens.

see

reddit

So they become what they most hate and kick out the most productive people in their country?

/pol/

See, the expulsion of whites only began in the 90s, a decade after Mugabe came to power, and long after Zimbabwe had become a totalitarian state.

Mugabe simply treats whites like Hitler treated Jews. As a convenient scapegoat.

He can't go full Auschwitz without his anemic military getting raped by whoever wants a piece of the country, but every day is Kristallnacht.

reddit

Not as bad as South Africa but still a very rascist country.

Blacks were constitutionally barred from majority rule no matter how wealthy or educated they became

School funding was heavily skewed towards whites with black education being mainly dealt with by missionaries with as much as 98+- being spent on white education

Schools and sport were eventually segregated by law even when parents were not ok with it.

older provisions which held black teachers should get payed the same as white teachers was repealed

The officer class was overwhelmingly white, with blacks having caps on the ranks they could achieve.

Same was true for the police force, with the addition that black officers would not be used against whites no matter the convenience

A semi system of segregation where blacks were confined to tribal homelands unless they owned properties or had a job in the city.

Importantly it did lack the whole peti aparthied of South Africa however you would have to go back to pre civil war days for American blacks to be worse off than Rhodesian blacks.

>a high level of discourse is expected.

t. red-dit

(You)

rhodesia was so racist that it was one of the most developed countries in africa. thankfully though the evil racists were killed off and rhodesia can return again to its natural african status of being a shithole.

epic discourse xD

>Race Realist
>Most of the Rhodesian army was black

Lmao, even fucking /b/ has better bait

>le epic post a picture of something specific i googled to show a general truth
why? why? why even do this? instead of finding a picture of a rhodesian regiment you could have found some statistics or documents to back up your refutation in the same amount of time.
fuckin hell lad

How about you? Because every single fucking picture I've seen of the Rhodesian army shows them being almost all Aryan with maybe one or two black guys.

If I'm correct, that's a picture of either the Rhodesian Light Infantry or the Special Air Service, both of which were the only branches of the Security Forces that were White Only

Rhodesian African Rifles, Selous Scouts, you name it, they had blacks. Selous Scouts in particular

Photographs aren't always representative of general truths, anonymous.

I personally don't know the racial composition of the Rhodesian army, so I'm not disagreeing with you or the other guy, but don't expect an image to do all the arguing for you.

im not making any claims, so i need not provide anything. why project like that? im just saying that pictures on google =/= evidence. nobody cares about your anecdotes we want your statistics

Except you did, you autist.So I ask you, got any ethnicity statistics for the Armed forces of Rhodesia?

Those are the the 11th infantry division of the Kings Rifles, formed in British East Africa and fought in the Burma campaign. Those are Rhodesians, photo even says they're in Nyasaland, now Malawi.

Shit meant to say they're not Rhodesians

OP here

So what I've taken away from this is that the Rhodies weren't racist, and that I started a giant shit-slinging fight

thats not me dude.. are you taking drugs?

forgot pic
why do you get all defensive but not look up stats for your own position?

And why have you not looked up stats for your stance that the Rhodesian army was filled with WE's

If they are dumb THATS NOT THEIR PROBLEM. Why do people think we have to help everyone? Oh yeah it's because you're a fucking commie. What else would I expect on a leftist board. Fuck this I'm leaving this hellhole

Lol if anything Mughabe is falsifying history and saying it was Made by black while in reality it was a structure built near ancient gold mines, maybe Made by Phoenicians, the famous mines of Solomon

>If they are dumb
You were talking about a lack of education, which requires a public education system.

>THATS NOT THEIR PROBLEM.
They were the government and thus only them could institute a public education system. Because only they could do it and public education is viewed upon as one of the bare minimum duties a state should provide, it is their problem.

>Why do people think we have to help everyone?
Who are "we"? Are you an early 20th century Rhodesian?

>Oh yeah it's because you're a fucking commie. What else would I expect on a leftist board. Fuck this I'm leaving this hellhole
Don't let the door hit you on your way out. You won't be missed.

Not him, but public education is in no ways required for a state to function well, nor even enviable. Most compulsory education laws in the USA were passed in the late 19th century yet the USA wasn't made up of a few naked tribesmen living in mud huts.

I wish all education was still private. Public education caters to the lowest common denominator, and creates close minded ideologues like yourself. At least private education leads to a diversity of opinions.

WE

Nah user it all leads to same shit.

That being said you're likely American and seeing how your public schools handled math over the 20th century I am not really surprised that you think that full-on private education would be better.

They understood that the existing tribal structures could be maintained alongside parliamentary government, indeed, that it was preferable for such structures to be maintained so as not to forcibly uproot the lives of the millions of africans in Rhodesia. While the breadbasket of Africa it simply wasn't possible in terms of cost to the state for Rhodesia to give equal conditions to the black man except via a very long term and gradual social change. Not all tribals wanted access to education, and many didn't trust the white mans medicines, but efforts were being made to accomodate those that did.

It was "racist" insofar as they could acknowledge that Africans couldn't simply become like successful Western Governments over night and said as much. Africa after the scramble to get out of Africa confirms this, and at the time the disasters that occured in several former British colonies that were turned over to majority (read:totalitarian) rule provided some great reasons to NOT want majority rule.

Following up, the wider issue is that of the way majority rule was approached.

The scramble to get out of Africa, turning everything over to majority rule at the drop of a hat, and having the experienced and educated white ministers and businessmen go elsewhere simply resulted, the best case scenarios, in people totally incompetent taking the place of white rule while the economy crashed.

Ian Smith&Co could bare witness to this madness, and said they didn't want that for Rhodesia, and that it would be best for the country and everyone in it if they would be permitted to retain white rule for 20-30 years in order to prepare black africans to govern the country competently. But this wasn't enough for the ex-colonial powers and it certainly wasn't enough for the USA, anything short of immediate black majority rule was deemed racist and oppressive. To this day no one will publicly admit that black majority rule was a mistake for the same reason.

White only units existed, but weren't the makeup of the entire Rhodesian armed forces, the RLI were a pretty small albeit effective part of things and even they had to help train the Rhodesian African Rifles for Parachute jumps.

Where is this webm from?

Empire of Dust

youtube.com/watch?v=A0C4_88ub_M

Not as racist as South Africa but pretty paternalistic. They believe that Blacks need to be educated before they can participate in government. That said if I was a black man I'd rather live here than 60s America

Thank you.