Cheap Car Chart Revisions

Lolno. Hell I've spent $850, $250, $400, $500, and $1100 on all the cars I've ever owned.
Only the last two are any good.

t. Maker of 24k yearly.

Poor people are stupid so they need guides to do stupid shit like buying a sub $5k car.

>Everywhere in this sticky is whining about the 700r4/4l60e

literally where? what are you talking about?

>@moparmemes
jesus fuck kill me now

As I posted in the previous thread, replace the Toyota Tercel with the 2000-2005 Toyota Echo mainly because, especially in the rust belt where I am, the Echo is a HELL of a lot easier to find.

Toyota Echo:
2000-2005
Pros:
>cheap
>shares chassis and drivetrains with Scion xA, and first gen 04-06 xB, so decent aftermarket
>bulletproof drivetrain (Toyota STILL uses the 1.5L and the 5 speed manual and 4 speed automatic transmissions in the 2017 Yaris)
Cons:
>not all that spacious
>2000-2002 front end is uglier than sin
>2000-2002 models have a different ECU than xA and xB
>center gauge cluster is not everyone's cup of tea
>no intermittent wipers
>hatchback body style has to be imported from Canada (can be done legally though. One of the few exceptions to America's 25 year law, under the similar enough clause)
>cars with tachometers and A/C can be hard to find depending on location (tach cars are legit rare though)
price-point proofs:
newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/6010204075.html
newyork.craigslist.org/brx/ctd/6022047526.html
newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cto/6042718221.html
I HAVE seen them under 1k in perfectly fine condition, but not on my local CL at the moment.

relevant.
youtube.com/watch?v=_V56sBMwuuM

under
>gm suburban
>GM Yukon
>GM Tahoe
>GM C/K Series

I missread it being under the corvette, apparently its not, even though this would have had the same tranny give or take a few solenoids

It's also NOT mentioned in the Chevy K5 series, where some of those blazers and jimmys had 700s/4l60es.

Awesome, I knew I had forgotten something

whoops

>and with actual maintenance (changing fluid/filter) on time there are minor issues
and that's the problem. the average car you're gonna find for 5k will have likely had little maintenance and been beat on for years

Its probably worth mentioning that the 07 Cadillac CTS (5 series competitor) can be had for $7k low miles and still looks pretty good. For some reason they lost value fast, probably because of how much Cadillac has improved since then.

>MPG not a con for the crown vic

k

i vote to keep cost of ownership sidebar as it gives insight about cost of ownership to help make a decision and keeping poor man's special for poor fags, which consists of many people in Veeky Forums especially first car buyers

I would definitely delete the Ford Taurus, or at least make a side bar that the Fords 3.8l v6 is such an nonredeemable piece of shit that blows head gaskets under any heat and costs an arm and a leg to replace due to time it takes to strip down the engine to work them.

Although that is probably true, we are talkinga bout something that should be done generally every 75-100k (if done at all) and costs generally $100-300, it may have or may not have been neglected at the $5k price point on some of these, but it doesn't really coincide with the guide as to which. For example, i'd bet that a corvette owner, selling for $5k would have a higher probability of having proof of maintenance then a family owned $5k older suburban (that may have been used for towing and put lots of wear on that 3-4 clutch pack. That could possibly explain why it was not mentioned in the guide under corvette not having tranny issues when it's pretty much the same thing with a different servo and shorter pan. (not sure trying to guess why this was done)

In any event, your statement could be true of ANY of these vehicles. Like corollas and tarcels are mentioned, and If I remember correctly, they have those trans-axels like the A131 which like %99 of mechanics you find at local shops don't even understand have differential fluid. Some of this stuff is just too relative.

>finicky transmission that needs coddled or built otherwise it fails

There is a reason they have a bad reputation

ex interceptors from the police are an amazing option for that, since they will have had regular maintenance. Con is that the engine can be beat to shit due to being run so often and for so long with frequent stress.

7K would be pushing it, can you post examples of the car at that price point?

It can be added if people think it should be

Any suggestions on a replacement if we killed it? I wasn't too jazzed about the Taurus last time, but a lot of people were behind it

The listed problems were farmed from as many reliable sources online as possible about confirmed issues with the given model (at the time edmunds and carcomplaints were the two biggest resources). In the end, you just have far too many fingers pointed at those models for the transmission not be included as a potential problem area.

If nothing else, including it makes potential buyers be a little more diligent when considering a purchase

A friend of mine has had a hatchback Hyundai Accent for years and it seems to always run great. I think it should be added somewhere.

Not that I'm saying that isnt so. But I know for many people the "failures" that are being refered to in these are far from serious, or due to neglect, or possibly there are not as many failures as people imagine.

For example, from the guide, if you chose a 1990 to 2003 GM yukon/tahoe/suburban variant, you could expect to have transmission issues...but if you chose like a 1994 k5 blzer, or a 1996 corvette then you are safe on the transmission.

How is that so, when they are still the 700r4/4l60e?

That's my main point.

The other thing is that, in the 1980's thats where their main "reputation" came from. by 2003 you can expect that tranny to last the life of the vehicle, if not, its a hell of a lot cheaper to replace then it is on a car over $5k.

PLUS, they make great projects/performance-price wise they are great.

Just feels like this guide is a little inconsistent in that respect. I mean from 1982 to present...its gone through a hell of a lot of changes and fixes. I'd be comfortable with it as a DD under $5k.

7:08 Lmao

It's just the 3.8l I think thats the issue. Fords first attempt with Aluminum heads was just a shit show. It's not like regular maintenance can save it, if the water pump goes out your head gasket will fail too from the heat before you can get that car stopped.

second this. Toyota echo is a great first car. I had one before I moved on to motorbikes and I loved it.

plus you can drop 5k for a plug and play supercharger that will put it up to around 170ps at the wheel, which is decent for a 900kg car

>MPG not a con for the crown vic

Respectfully user I don't think it should be considered a con. The Panther platform is a full size RWD v8 sedan and those criteria should be enough to signal that the MPGs will not be similar to modern cars. Comparing that platform (which ended in 2011) to today's cars is a bit unfair; modern, smaller cars can achieve much higher digits and I don't think it's fair to compare an older platform to modern criteria.

My .02 but whatever

Honestly it should just have 3 columns
>0 to 1500
>1500 to 3000
>3000 to 5000

If the car is getting 20mpg in the city, it's fine. Cheap gas prices and all. It's when a car is getting

Veeky Forums can't handle something that simple.

Something similar to that is what the first draft of the chart tried to be

I really like fast as your dollar can go, but it's not 2001 anymore grandpa. Those cars are slow now. Mazdaspeed6's and maybe 3's are about 5 grand where I live and they'll blow the doors off most of that stuff before you even get the Cobb access port.

The sticky operates on a 5k budget.
By all means, show us a faster car in that budget.

Does anyone think the chat should be split into standard and auto? Good amount of models that differ alot in reliability between the 2. Civic is one for example

The automatic only chart would be filled with "beware automatic transmission failure" as a con on every non-RWD car.

I bought a metro with a credit card as a result of this chart one year ago when life went shit. Little thing is a definite death trap but a 50mpg miracle.
Thanks /o
Happy it's still a poor man's special.

And for those wondering, the Scion xA/xB would replace the Honda CRX on the sticky if only because they're easier to find unmolested.

The Scion tC would replace the Honda Prelude for the same reason.

Holy shit look at this giant dick shifter

autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=452700040&zip=46845&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=46845&showcaseOwnerId=100040552&startYear=1981&maxPrice=10000&incremental=all&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=CTS&makeCodeList=CAD&searchRadius=25&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&maxPrice=10000&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=CTS&makeCodeList=CAD&searchRadius=25&makeCode1=CAD&modelCode1=CTS

autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=394903773&zip=46845&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=46845&showcaseOwnerId=100040552&startYear=1981&maxPrice=10000&incremental=all&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=CTS&makeCodeList=CAD&searchRadius=25&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&maxPrice=10000&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=CTS&makeCodeList=CAD&searchRadius=25&makeCode1=CAD&modelCode1=CTS

Currently the low milage ones sold in my area.

Yeah honestly those old mustangs and camaros are slow ass turds on the road today.
Just put Miata in every category desu

Please include cheap cars to pick up chicks in, i need to get laid

Turn the dbt sticky picture back on

Suggestion:

Mention under Crown Vic that a Mercury Grand Marquis can be a better option in some cases. Namely, they're not trashed as hard as a CVPI sometimes, and they've got some nice options available.

I'm Canadian and they're getting to about 5k here which is less than 5k usd. What's it like in the US?

Please change the Ford Expedition from a 'honorable mention' to one of the main SUVs. It is easier to repair than the early Tahoes.

1997-2002 is the first generation, they are currently the cheapest. I own a 2002 XLT, and it is so fun.

>my favorite should replace my hated because I said so

>Mazdaspeed3
enjoy blowing motor mounts and destroying the engine

I know people who owned one and they're a headache. Not nearly as bad as my mk3 supra though and they blow the doors off my shit.

Switch tacoma and ranger around. Tacomas are taxed too hard

Alright, updates made so far

Crown Vic updated to Panther Platform

Scion tC added to Coupes, Prelude moved to honorable mention

>abusive previous owners

gee, i wonder who they were

Tercel replaced with Echo in Poor Man's Special

CRX replaced with Scion xA/xB

Why doesn't the dbt picture in the sticky work my nyukka

Could you specify what the dollar sign means? How much is $? How much is $$$$$? Just ballpark ranges could do.

I'm guessing each $ stands for 1k.

Why is the CRX still on there?

it isn't?

It's nearly impossible to find the WRX under 5k now, even more than it was in 2014. Maybe replace it with the MR2 Spyder?

But Rangers, outside of the V6, are anemic turds
And the V6 has horrible mileage

You can still find WRX's at that price point. If anything, I'd rather see the Talon and Eclipse replaced by the MR2

It literally looks like an erect horse cock.

typo.
Change gaugae to gauge or else we'll hear about the typo for fucking ever.
Also, Automtic to Automatic.

We're removing it. It's been replaced.
See:
But the MR2 is already on the sticky under Special Snowflakes.

Change the years for the Scion xA/xB to 04-06. 2008+ xB's had numerous problems and are not worth touching.

The Spyder doesn't suffer from the traditional MR2 caveats like project/rice tax and snap oversteer. It was made as a Miata competitor, which makes it the worst MR2 IMO but does make it easier to recommend.

1990 was 37 years ago

Mileage is within 1-2mpg, and post 2001 the ranger 4cylinder has only 7 less horsepower

>tfw flying cars should have been here 12 years ago

V6 tacomas and rangers have the same mpg

>1990 + 10 = 2000 (10)
>2000 + 10 = 2010 (20)
>2000 + 7 = 2017 (27)
>??? (37)

Common Core claims another victim

jesus it must be hard being you.

May I make a suggestion?
Move the Civic Si hatch to the honorable mentions and give the Scion xA/xB the spotlight. Si's are becoming hard to find unmolested.
Here. have a pretty picture to use.

>but does make it easier to recommend.
I refuse the suggest the W30 MR2 to anyone. There's enough storage room for a pet hamster and that's about it.

Add the Mazda B Series with the Ranger since it's the same thing

neither of those is really a 'hot' hatchback though. Section really should just be hatchbacks

Third for the Echo. Fun little shitbox can be had for under$1500 safety and e-tested in Ontario.
Also with the 5 speeds its actually a fun little car to toss around compared to modern shit boxes.

Its a 110Hp / 2200lbs car , with great steering input. . . just don't tip over because it does have a very high center of gravity.

better suggestion: just list panther platform, and list that as a con.

rear suspension should be added to the common problems.

Take the 92-95 RX7 off. They have climbed in price a LOT since then. I would almost take the FB out of the equation too, because they're going up in value, but you can find them for a decent price still.

I nominate a new luxobarge.

X300 Jaguar XJ6/ Vanden Plas, 95-97 ONLY.

More reliable than the LS400 (engine aside because the sample size is too small for the Jag for a good comparison, but everything else from dash lights to climate control and transmission are more reliable in the Jag. No lie. There is only one thing that will keep the Jag from running and that's the crankshaft position sensor. I know the LS400 has sensor and evap issues that can cause it problems. The XJ6 also gets better fuel economy and looks better, too, and the interior is miles ahead. The LS400 is an amazing car but this particular generation of Jaguar can be found for cheaper and is all around the better ride.

I should add that you can find them for 2 grand if you look. Engine and tranny are unkillable, and the electronics are upgraded Denso units with gold plated connections. The cars have no real weak spots.

1990 to 2017 is 27 years you morons. Guess math class really does suck in Europe.

WRX has long been a sore spot for that section. I agree that with current market conditions, it would probably be a better fit in the special snowflake category

good catch, removed it from poor mans special section

corrected, thanks for catching them

can you provided sources for those issues?

Wouldn't be opposed, as the xA/xB are probably easier to find and overall 'better' recommendations, but it would probably necessitate changing the section to just "Hatchbacks", again something I am not opposed to

Will do on next round of revisions

can you reference sources for rear end problems?

Will consider it if others think it is a better fit

>can you provided sources for those issues?
carcomplaints.com/Scion/xB/2008/engine/excessive_oil_consumption.shtml
carcomplaints.com/Scion/xB/2008/brakes/electronic_stability_control.shtml
carcomplaints.com/Scion/xB/2008/brakes/service_brakes_hydraulic.shtml
carcomplaints.com/Scion/xB/2008/brakes/service_brakes.shtml

>can you provided sources for those issues?
just to point out. 2008+ Scion xB's share absolutely NOTHING with first gen 2004-2006 models beyond the name.

The 04-06 car is based on the Echo with a 1.5L 1NZ-FE.
The 2008-2015 car is based on the Corolla and uses the Toyota Camry and 05-10 Scion tC's 2.4L 2AZ-FE.

The size difference is MASSIVE between the 2.
The 2008+ cars do not share a single part with the first gen cars.

If we're being realistic here, someone buying a $5000 car should not be buying German anything. I think they're fine for the "Luxury Car" section, but I don't think a C-Class should be one of the three compact sedans listed with images. Corolla should probably replace it, but the 3-Series and VW probably shouldn't be on there either.

Add one more to con
>Miserable to sit in

Many many years ago, my Celica was referred to as an Econo-coupe. While in many respects it may have earned that title, having sat in an Echo and Tercel coupe, I was offended by the comparison. The sitting/seating position alone sets it apart from the Echo and Tercel.

They may be fun to wheel around, sure, but they are economy cars through and through. The Celica made you at least feel like you were driving a sports car.

>trasnimssion

The Corvette servo increases fluid pressure, and it decreases wear. The 4l60e in the Corvette lasts longer for a reason.

It's an extremely common $20 mod for the 4l60e.

After the introduction of the 4l65e the 4l60e received an update. Believe it was in 2003.

I wouldn't trust the 4l60e behind a 4.3, let alone anything towing with the 5.3.

Why does nearly every other board have a dedicated wiki, or a well thought out written sticky, and we're left with an image and 4 posts?

Because an Veeky Forums wiki would just be filled with bait and Corvette vs GTR arguments.

is the oil consumption issue listed their the same one that the tC encountered as well?

I would like to sub out the Focus for the Scion twins in the hatchback category, but that's a hard sell with only a couple model years worth of inventory to recommend

I was extremely on the fence about the german cars on the last revision, but the popular opinion at the time was to give people a domestic column, a japanese column, and a european column to maximize options. The C Class got the top bill simply because on average, it's probably the most reliable one you'll find at that price point

Again, I have no problem re-working it if people can come to a consensus on better options

corrected

Because we'd need someone to write it.

You've just been nominated to write a wiki.