If you're not Alpha Tier, why haven't you already offed yourself?
Alpha Tier: IB @ Goldman, Morgan Stanley Alpha (-): IB @ Citi, Baml, Jpm Beta (+): IB @ Any other bank Beta: Other front-office role Loser: Equity Research, S&T Pleb: Wealth mgmt, other finance roles Death: Anything else
Cameron Sanchez
Retired, living off of six figures of passive income. Fuck that office noise.
Nathaniel Hernandez
Care to elaborate?
Colton Lewis
>jane street >two sigma >beta
Nicholas Reed
What's there to elaborate on? A few mil pays that much passively. Not sure where that ranks on your "scale", though. It's not like I worked for Goldman.
Aiden Roberts
lol implying if you're a prop or quant trader you're not already too beta to function in a social setting. go play some poker with your neckbeard coworkers
Jeremiah Kelly
was curious how you make $xxx,xxx of passive income. if actively trading, that's hardly passive.
Charles Lee
>actively trading The people who hold the capital may be, but I wouldn't call it very active. They're really just collecting a percentage to move it around occasionally.
Jordan Cook
>babbys first insight into investment banking
fuck off until you finished high school and then come back once you passed your first semester at your overpriced american colleges
Jeremiah Turner
>alpha >working for other people
hardest kek I've had in a while
Matthew Sanders
>Implying there's anything alpha about working IB at Goldman, JP, or Citi. >Implying you're not just looked at as an office lackey that works in the same building as fucking accountants, account managers, and other wage slaves.
God no.
Only alpha IB jobs are upper tier middle market like Lazard of Jefferies. That's the real luxurious bro-tier frat-style shit. Good luck shit talking with your MD at JPM you dumb faggot.
Oh, and good luck getting a bonus when you're fucking consumer banking division does some retarded shit like Wells Fargo.
Christian Cook
Maybe for new grads. Everyone @ IBs want to move to the buy side, e.g. private equity.
Samuel Howard
Even new grads going into IB only do it to eventually go into PE.
Brody Bell
Morgan Stanley ahead of Citi and JPM? What backwards ass part of the world do you live in? London?
Ayden Ramirez
I'm a third worlder
My only choices are bbva, citi and boutique banks
Adam Bailey
>mfw I got into PE straight out of school.
Nordics are pretty cool. Obviously the pay isn't as good as in the US but still.
Kevin Wright
Wait how did you land an overseas PE job like that?
Blake White
why is UBS not number one?
Ryder Perez
Private equity should be the top of that chart
Cameron Morgan
Alpha Tier IB is Goldman, Morgan, JP Morgan, Barclays
Alpha (-) is deutshe bank, citi
Benjamin Rodriguez
>If you're not Alpha Tier, why haven't you already offed yourself?
Don't worry. I'm considering it.
David Rivera
>Barclays
Babbies first year of business school?
Nathan Myers
This guy gets it.
Also this whole thread looks like wallstreetoasis, where 1st graders are jacking off to the IB labels.
The deal here is that majority of people goes to BB as analysts just for the exit opportunities. In BB you don't mean jackshit until you get some real contacts with clients - which is AVP/VP level. MDs are handling the majorities of the business anyway. Your real value as VP and higher is the skill to originate the deals. You are being paid for your network, for trust and the fact that people will bring your business to you. It's also the reason why a lot of good MDs with good networks open their own boutiques outside the BB scheme. In BB being MD for many is a step on the ladder to become the partner. CorpFin IB is structured like a pyramid with anything below AVP is an excel monkey bottom feeder.
EBs, small PEs and other small companies are the places to stay, as your MD will be most likely sit next to you and you will all become buddies pretty quick.
From this point of view S&T is most egalitarian part of BBs, as traders are pretty autistic, they don't give a fuck about titles and PnL scheme makes pretty hard to have some soft power over them as long as they are green. Marketers and salespeople are pretty simmiliar, as usually the desks they run are pretty small and it turns into fratdesk pretty quick.
Quants are also pretty uncoinstrained, as they are the easiest to move to big tech companies if they want.
Jackson Martinez
I'm Scandinavian....
Jonathan Mitchell
The fuck is EB?
Elijah Edwards
Elite Boutique firms like Lazard, Evercore, Greenhill, Blackstone, Jefferies etc.
Pretty much anything that has 300-3000 employees.
If you get lucky - new branch of expanding BB bank has the same feel and structure too. Too young to be part of it, but people told me that Lehman or GSI felt a lot like a small EB back when they started to expand into London.
Nathan Gomez
So you start by talking shit about WSO and how the posters there act in regards to IB labels then you use autistic IB labels like "elite boutique" that clearly come straight from WSO. I'd be willing to bet you don't even work in finance and are probably still in school with no internships, no job offers, and no connections within the industry.
Christopher Ward
Full time boutique and previous intern at BB here. He's speaking fine.
Shut the fuck up, loser.
Logan Ward
And before you begin to sperg out, my office is in 21 South Clark St., Chi IL. You should know the building. Feel free to post yours since you have so much information as to how departments within IBs work.
Jose Perez
Oh yeah lad? Which BB did you intern at and which department? You probably went to some second-tier college as well like Brown or Cornell.
Ayden Young
Hey neighbor, I'm at 134 N Lasalle
Ryder Phillips
How would a freshman internship at Suisse Bank look on a resumè?
Blake Reed
What type of salary can guys in your positions expect?
Kevin Diaz
>Chicago
And you think you can talk shit? You really are a loser.
John Rodriguez
Right on. You ever get lunch at Primebar? It's a few blocks from your office and their burgers are the best I've tried within the area.
Jayden Perez
As long as you didn't completely fuck up during your internship then it should look fine. Did you receive a full time offer from them after your internship? If not, then why not? Work on that reason and be ready to answer that question during an interview and you should be alright.
Short answer: enough. Long answer: Depends a lot on firm, location, experience, and how much revenue your department brings in. I've seen people make $65,000 before bonus and other compensation and I've also seen people make 6-figures before bonus and other compensation. I can't say what department I work in, but just know that the more complex products you work with the more money you'll make typically.
Josiah Hughes
I've only been there once. I usually bring my lunch or get Thai food from that place on Wells behind my building. The cafeteria in the basement of the Chase building is pretty damn good too.
Evan Taylor
EB is a good label. It's not a 5 man M&A shop, but it's not a Deutsche or CS, where no one really knows what is happening and 90% of employees feel no bond with the company.
I've started to work at mid-size boutique some time ago (im Yuropoor btw) and it's like heaven compared to bulge.
Colton Jones
You ever had the Frontera Grill? Place is grade fucking A but the wait is sometimes too long when I need to get back upstairs pretty quickly (i guess that's why we have interns).
Brayden Thompson
You have a lot of knowledge and experience! What did you major in?
I'll still have 3 years of college after this summer; not getting a return offer is to be expected, right? Also, I'd like to double major in Finance and either Mathematics or a Foreign Language (at William & Mary). Given the choice of school, will major really matter or is the non-Ivy status damning?
P.S. Do your colleagues tend to use stuff like Adderall to stay on top of their game?
Ryder Hall
I've only ever had it at the airport (I think)
Ryder Thomas
I attended an ivy school where I studied Finance, History, Mathematics, and Psychology. Majors were in Finance and Psychology and minors were in History and Mathematics.
W&M is a good enough school that you can get accepted into a nice MBA program assuming you have optimal grades. Also keep in mind that there is not only one way into high-finance, all roads lead to Rome if you truly want to do this job and truly are capable of it.
In regard to your last question, I can't speak for others who work in this firm. I'm sure people around me have prescriptions to drugs like what you mentioned as I can see how some people may need it to "stay on top of their game." Outside of that, I really can't speak on it.
Bentley Parker
Optimal grades, huh? Which times of day did you find to be optimal for having class in, and did you drink coffee, take naps, etc.? I realize this is the part where much of Veeky Forums will call out >faggot, but you're legitimate as opposed to the many who wish they were in your position.
Dominic Walker
tfw entry level finance job at wells fargo
want to move into IB, is it possible with an accounting qualification?
Liam Thomas
You're putting too much thought into the wrong aspects of what got me to where I am.
Find what works best for you and do that. Learn to not only adapt, but thrive in adverse conditions. If you can figure out how to take hits on the chin, learn a lesson through perseverance, and come out on top despite pressure and stress then you will do well in this business.
Everybody has losing days, how you handle those losing days is what makes or breaks someone in this industry.
Colton Gray
IB at WFS is basically an entirely different company. What kind of finance do you do? Corporate? Consumer?
Nathan Price
i'm doing accounting, essentially.
no consumer stuff, mainly corporate.
Adam Young
How do you chill? Dissections?
Kayden Ward
Honestly, Accounting is the most applicable shit in IB. If you know the ins and outs of accounting, you already know more than 90% of the first year analysts in BB. My personal advice would be to get your MBA now. You'll have to get it at some point anyways if you hope to stay in IB for more than 3 years, and it will give you a direct line to recruiting for Associate positions.
Ryder Wright
>Accounting is the most applicable shit in IB thanks, that's actually a load of my mind. i was worried that doing accounting for the first 4 years or so would limit my career into just being stuck in accounting.
Joseph Rivera
accounting is probably the most versatile bachelors degree for a finance job.
CPA is in demand
Thomas Hughes
shit, i didn't mean degree. i had a STEM degree, then started at Wells doing accounting. got a qualification and now want to move out sorry for the confusion
Owen Murphy
What school you get your MBA from matters an enormous amount, keep that in mind when picking which program you want to choose.
Owen Lee
Indeed.
If you're fine not being in NYC, you can pick an easier school in a city like Charlotte or Atlanta (Duke and Emory, respectively). No one from Ivys will compete with you, and your post-tax and post-expenses income will be nearly equal if not a bit higher. But most people, and likely yourself, want NYC or bust. If that's the case, try your hardest for Ivy.
Cooper Wilson
It may be helpful to note that top cities for IBDs include NYC, CHI, SanFran, Seattle, London, Hong Kong, Toronto, Paris, and Tokyo. If you want to make the most money in investment banking then you'll make your way to a position in one of these cities, one way or another. (but keep in mind that living expenses are much higher in these cities compared to smaller cities)
Christian Sanders
Knock off Seattle, Chicago, and Paris. Is Toronto really big?
Luke Kelly
Oh please, I work in Chicago and we're the third biggest city for IB in respect to volume of deals and money generated for the firm (behind NYC and London). That's a fact.
Toronto is really big (for a Canadian city).
Levi Jenkins
Chicago is bigger for IB than Seattle and San Fran and Paris.
Hudson Sullivan
I highly doubt that, no offense. I'd be open to a source on that though. I know Chicago is massive for derivatives, however, and other financial institutions. Don't really know it for IB though.
t. nyc
Leo Anderson
The general consensus is that Chicago is one of the largest and best cities for investment banking. It's not on me to prove this to you, it's on you to prove why you think it isn't since you have the opinion that the consensus disagrees with.
Also, how can you state that you know "Chicago is massive for derivatives" yet you're unsure what this means for the size of investment banking division in this city? How many deals do you think IBDs work on without the use of derivatives? Hell the CME is HQ'd here.
Christian Hill
What general consensus? The general consensus of bankers in Chicago? Yeah, no shit. And the general consensus of Wells Fargo and BAML people in Charlotte is that fucking CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA is the "#2 banking city in the WORLD" (I swear to God, I've heard that more than once from people in the area).
Again, not trying to be a dick, but can you name 10 BB that have major IB operations in Chicago? I can do that for every single city listed aside from Chicago, Toronto, and Paris.
I've had multiple conversations with people on the matter of best cities. Many of these people have worked all over the world. I think Chicago has come up in the conversations once, and that was in regard to a previous experience the guy had at the CBOE.
Also, do not patronize me. Since when does a deal necessitating derivatives need to come out of Chicago in order to have access to derivatives? That's a total non sequitur. And yes, the reason I mentioned that Chicago is big for derivatives was specifically because I know the CME and CBOE are located there (a long with several firms specializing in derivatives).
I'll ask some senior people what they think. I haven't once gotten the impression that Chicago mattered as much as NYC, London, SF, HK, etc.
Luke Richardson
>can you name 10 BB that have major IB operations in Chi...
There's only like 8 or 9 banks even considered BB IBs. 1. BAML 2. BarCap 3. Citi 4. Deutsche 5. Goldman 6. JPM 7. Morgan Stanley 8. UBS 9. Credit Suisse Protip: they all have large offices in Chicago.
Didn't you say you worked at a boutique firm? I told you what building I work in, there's really no comparison between my firm and whoever you work for haha
Isaiah Scott
>There's only like 8 or 9 banks even considered BB IBs.
No.
Also, I never said where I work. I've only mentioned NYC. I'm very proud of my status, and I could really rub it in much harder with the NYC elitism. Cool it, JP.
Easton Green
>Correction: I did mention botique.
Kevin Russell
I like to learn so let me know what BBs I missed from the list in my last post since there are more than 9 according to you.
What's your firm's AUM by the way? I'm sure you know ours, everyone does.
Benjamin Butler
Do you really want to play this game? I'll win the second I ask what your 2016 bonus was.
All this e-peen shit because I questioned the almighty Chicago's status? What thin skin you have.
Jaxon Wood
That's what I thought. You can't name any other BB IBs because I named them all and you can't name your firm's AUM because you either don't work in the industry or you're embarrassed because we manage more money than you. We can most certainly compare bonus checks too, I have no problem with that. While we're at it, you want to compare cars and apartments? I'm pretty confident there as well. Maybe you'd like to compare watches?
Eli Hall
kek. chicago is shit tier. that's a fact
everyone smart that I met in Chicago has moved to NYC or SF
what was your bonus in 2016? :^)
Hudson White
let's see that financial penis
what kinda car do you drive? let's see that apartment too
Luis Roberts
I'm in the business of M&A advisory, not wealth management. AUM is meaningless to me when my bonus could buy and sell my own father and his daddy 20 times over (how about that for drunken hyperbole). I'm curious, what's your product?
Julian Taylor
Credit derivatives. Have you seen compensation slowing down for the M&A sector in the past year or two? Our consultation group has done less deals this year than the past 3.
Cameron Ross
LMAO at all these IB try hards in this thread. Especially the guy bragging about his bonus.
- distressed/special sits analyst at $5bn+ NYC HF
Brayden Evans
hehe
this thread just confirms that banking is full of tools
they're so shameless about it too. can't wait until blockchain and AI automates away most of you worthless baboons in a few years
Ayden Cox
That's what I've heard in general about BB. All I know is that if our shop slowed down year to year, we wouldn't be in business. We've done a kickass job at delivering volume, and we're (imo overly) compensated for it.
I can't complain. One of my MDs worked at JP, and I have many friends there, so I have great respect for the firm.
Enough jabs. Merry Christmas my very rich amigo. I'll make it a point to visit Chicago this year and culture myself.
PS: you totally had my ass on the 10 BBs thing. fucking scotch
Choke on it, cuck 8=====D
Joseph Price
Oh fuck off. Whose dick did you suck to get that job?
Blockchain? I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you since you're buying bullshit.
Happy Hanukkah
Evan Gray
Hanukkah? Are you Jewish? Damn it really must help
Matthew Hall
Nordea lel
Isaac Wood
>Choke on it, cuck 8=====D I'm sure there are some notes on a pitch book you neee to be turning for an MD somewhere
Hudson Sullivan
do you losers seriously consider "alpha" as working for someone else, in any position? pretty pathetic guys.
Isaac Scott
>IB >any wageslave job >alpha
My sides
If you do not have your own steadily growing business and are not personally earning mid-six figures MINIMUM and can go to local social events without being recognised by everyone there you have no right to be calling yourself 'alpha'
Adam Wright
this
being swiss truly is the masterrace
Tyler Howard
Nordea is hardly a PE firm. In fact, their corporate finance side is completely lacking.
Samuel Thomas
>IB >alpha
top kek
Adrian Nelson
>MBA
You learn fuck all, it doesn't make you better in any way yet employers respect it. It's such a fucking charade.