/dmt/ daily manual thread

why do hate your synchros?
it's high gear -> clutch in -> neutral -> clutch out -> blip -> clutch in -> higher gear -> clutch out

*lower gear

I do feel "pride" in my truck man. Pride in knowing I can leave the thing running for a sec and nobody will drive it away. Pride in knowing that all my friends gave up asking to borrow the truck because nobody else can get the fucking thing moving.

...

Second gear in a 90° turn and the car accelerates itself at the end of the turn before I even put my foot on the throttle. Why ?
I'm learning how to drive btw.

>When are you supposed to blip the throttle when downshifting?
when wanting to change into a lower gear without wanting to slow down to a road speed that would match the engine speed of the lower gear
so basically only when going fast, or wanting to go fast

Heel toeing is dumb of you aren't literally racing. But are you fucking stupid? What do you do? Do you downshift and then slowly let the clutch out, destroying your clutch and oversteering into a tree at the same time? Christ you kids are fucking stupid.

>you can't shift faster than a modern automatic
Challenge accepted.
I have to beat what, 0.04s inbetween gear shifts?

I feel left foot braking is better anyway. After I got comfortable in a stick, I realized I don't ever actually need brake and clutch at the same time. However, I occasionally need brake and throttle, and clutch and throttle goes without saying.

>its literally nothing special, and you can't shift faster than a modern automatic.
stop fucking benchracing.
unless you are completely, perfectly fucking flawless and drive your car so that not even for a second it is not at its absolute limit of grip, the few milliseconds every shift you don't do while braking do not matter.

This. Bring your automatic paddle shifted whatever to a track and I'll fucking crush you in my manual.

>nobody else can get the fucking thing moving.
Get a new car, that disrespectful friend wants to drive it.
ok. He almost gets in then sees the stick and has a change of heart.

>revving when the clutch is pushed in
HA

Literally nothing wrong in doing that

Dude, even my friends who drive standard on the daily can't drive my truck.
God bless 3 on the tree and the stiffest clutch known to mankind.

There is literally no reason at all to do that on a modern car.

Higher gear > clutch in > blip throttle while shifting to lower gear > select lower gear > clutch out

I've been trying to find the explanation for this phenomenon but each time I google it, it gives me hits about bicycles..

So in Takumi's duct tape death match where he couldn't steer, they talked about how he "steered by shifting the weight of the car." All it looks like he does is move the steering wheel a tiny bit, and shift. Can someone explain if this (1) actually works IRL, and (2) how and why this is achieved, theoretically or in reality.

He downshifted, interia drifted into the corner and controlled the drifting understeer with the throttle

Shingo didn't have this problem because ff shitboxes have lift-off oversteer, so he wouldn't need to turn too hard anyway

>FF
>lift off oversteer

holy christ shifting in a car seems so complicated compared to a motorcycle

It's the same thing with controls in different places and an H pattern, it's just shifting needs to a bit more precise to not jerk a car as opposed to a bike

ff cars are almost always defined by lift-off oversteer you dumb fuck

The understeer caused by applying throttle and turning is canceled out when you lift-off the throttle causing oversteer.

Not to be confused with what happens with MR and RR cars, but the result is the same: you gonna die nigga

>No heltoe
>Destroying clutch
>Being this autist

This is why Veeky Forums is a shithole

Heel toe != rev matching

Heeltoe is just a more "advanced" form of rev matching.
Its purpose is the same (blipping throttle to rev match), but it's necessary if you want to rev match and brake at the same time.

You rev match when you are coasting, you heeltoe when you are braking and can't afford to lift the brake pedal for a moment.

At the end of the day, heeltoe and rev matching is exactly the same thing, just performed in different situations

It's because of the sequential vs h pattern shifters. Sequential you only have to go up or down, although in motorcycles you got your arms and legs vs just your legs in a car.

> mfw pic is impossible with my gargantuan feet.

I don't know what either heeltoing or rev matching is.
I just shift when my engine sounds a certain way.

modern manuals still have synchromesh

>I have no idea what I'm talking about

I bet you will now point me to an uncle whose car totally destroyed the synchros after two years of absolutely not trash driving, showing me that the only logical conclusion is that no cars whatsoever have synchros that outlive the cars themselves if used without double clutching

>slowing down in 3rd
>get to 1100RPM
>green light
Veeky Forums, do you downshift or do you slowly crawl up to speed until you get back up to 2000?

the raisin i ask is because if i floor it when at 1100, the engine suffers but if i slowly inject, then it smoothly goes.

I have to do it backwards (heel on brake, toe on gas) because of my fuckhueg steering wheel

Why is driving manual so fun? I've had it for like 5 years and I'm still not tired of it.

Downshift definitely.

Downshift and rev match

Oh. Is it actually bad for the engine if I do this?

My general rule of thumb is that if it isn't chugging, I can just steadily accelerate. I do so to try and save as much gas as possible but if that's a bad idea then?

No it's not bad for the engine, your rule of thumb is right, you downshift if you want to go faster.
If you are not in a hurry and are in fuel-saving mode, then just leave it in that gear and slowly go up

Yeah that's what I do. I just don't accelerate really quickly and slowly press in until 2000RPM and downshift to 4th. I'm talking about cruising innacity and not rural roads or racing.

So when IS the engine suffering? Any time that it bumps back and forth?

Also, I accidentally redlined my vehicle the other day and kept it at redline point for like 5 seconds. How much did I fuck up?
I was trying to overtake and accidentally dropped it in 2nd instead of 4th by accident and was wondering why I coudln't accelerate anymore.

You're lugging and the engine is preventing stall. In most cars, even pretty old ones, if the rpms get too low, the engine will provide some small amount of torque to help prevent the engine from stalling. If you're going so slow that the engine is approaching idle speed, you should either be in a lower gear or have the clutch dipped.

>so basically only when going fast, or wanting to go fast

Not really no. If you're shifting down, without blipping the throttle, you'll always be slipping the clutch to bring the engine to speed to engage the gear, unless you just want until you're nearly stopped to engage the clutch.

It doesn't really matter when you're going 15mph and just putting it back into 2nd. But if you're going say 35mph and hit a steep hill in 4th gear, not blipping the throttle will result in either 1) letting the clutch out really slowly and slipping it for full couple seconds at speed or 2) having a big decelerating jerk like as though you just tapped the brakes, which is both unpleasant and bad for the clutch anyway.

More than anything, rev matching is just an easy way to lighten the load on your clutch and tranny, as well as a smoother overall driving experience.

nice argument, you convinced me that synchronizing your gearbox doesn't make sense. good debate.

>So when IS the engine suffering?

When it's being revved faster than its mechanical limit (the redline on the tachometer)
That's pretty much it, you can't ruin an engine even by repeatedly stalling it. You will however, ruin the clutch and if you feel a "bouncing" back and forth, that's likely the damping springs on the clutch itself which can break if you put too much stress on them.
Engines tend to get a little unbalanced at lower RPM too which causes the disconcerting vibration felt when about to stall. It's really nothing dangerous.

I see you are underaged, I have 300000 km on my current city-cuckbox(which I bought brand new for pennies, dealers will give huge discounts if you can just write a cheque, at least they did 20 years ago) and the synchronizer rings on the first two gears are clearly worn since they only go in when double clutching

It did take 250k km to bust them though, so it does not matter much if you drive low mileage cars and sell them before they get too old

>not rolling in fifth gear when doing 50km/h
That's how you save fuel

There's a thing that kicks in and stops me from going past red line, though.

Is it safe to say that if I occasionally redline it, it won't "die"?

The rev limiter will not let your engine die. You can mechanically overrev the engine and destroy it, but you can floor it in first all day and not blow your engine.

Sure that's fine. I didn't really say you shouldn't do that though. I'm talking about slowing down for a corner or coming to a stoplight.

>cruising
>traffic light ahead turns red
>downshift and rev match for engine braking
Am I doing it right?

>Synchros failed on that one car so all cars fail at the same time

Let's see who is underage here

That's what I do especially if the light turn green I'm at a good gear to accelerate again

>failed
That's called wear, it happens to metal parts when you use them a lot. You'll probably learn that word in high school

>You can mechanically overrev the engine and destroy it
Is there a way to do that besides money shifting?
Do diesels have rev limiters to bounce on? I drive a diesel box and it smells like burning oil when i have to redline it, never reached the point where it stops going up though

I see you are fucking retarded. I can make the exact same argument for the clutch, it will easily last your city cuck life if you drive an underpowered shitbox like a pussy. Then there's no point in heel-toe anyway. Clutch and Synchros will suffer when you push your car and don't rev match properly, that's why enthusiasts use heel-toe.
>but I don't need it xd
People like you make my blood boil.

When they wear too much they fail.
Wear a clutch too much and it fails, wear your brakes too much and they fail, wear your synchros too much and they fail, they stop doing what they were designed to do

Don't try to tell me how's high school, doesn't seem like you have ever seen the inside of one

Synchros will last the life of the car provided you don't drive like a retard.

The purpose of rev matching and using heel and toe in a car with synchros is to avoid throwing the balance of the car forward when you block shift down.

You only nees to rev match when doing stupid shifts like 4-2 or even 5-2.

>Don't try to tell me how's high school, doesn't seem like you have ever seen the inside of one

Yeah, the rev limiter is there to prevent doing catastrophic damage from over-revving. All you did from redlining it for a few seconds in your previous post is probably just burned some carbon off your valves. Gave it the ol' Italian tune-up lol

You can theoretically downshift past the redline though and damage your engine.

When i heel toe i place my heel on the brake and blip with my toe.
Is this dangerous?

Most engines shouldnt explode from being over revved a couple times in there life, or atleast not any modern dual cam engine.

If its comfortable to you its fine, but in an emergancy you might not be able to apply enough/modulate pressure on the brake

You are right, But If you go back the chain of replies you'll find that the thing we were talking about was actually double-clutching, which indeed saves a tiny bit of load on the synchros.
My point, however, was that synchros outlast the car most of the time even if you never ever do a single double clutch, of course the retard then jumped at me saying that one car had its synchros fail at several hundred thousands km so, by extension, all cars must do the same and double clutching is the only way to prevent such catastrophic premature failure.

Double clutching, rev matching and heel toeing are completely unnecessary in modern vehicles, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it for the sake of enjoyment (heel toeing is actually pretty efficient when you want to go sanic fast) or to develop a skill that may or may not be useful when driving, but this whole idea that they can save you years and tens of thousands of miles of life out of clutches and synchros is just a retarded way to seem knowledgeable without admitting that it's purely a thing done for enjoyment and for skill development, which, again, would be something I have no reason to argue against.

There is no argument to be had here. If those techniques were actually necessary for the normal operation of today's cars, they would teach you about them in driving schools and in user's manuals.

How many RPMs should I be driving at.

I'm learning on a WRX and find I seem to be around 3000 rpm

when I drive my auto Yaris it seems to be constantly 1500rpm wtf lol

>what is gear ratio the post.

>Power band
Between max torque and max hp, use google to find yours
Keep it in there to go faster

If you're just going somewhere, shift up when you reach 2k

smoother ride, less stress on the clutch (this one is not really important, clutch can handle way more than slow connecting while engine revs lower than it should)

it's not really important in everyday driving, you don't really downshift super fast while braking at almost 100% grip while going 50kmph in the city. that being said, it feels nice to use it, braking goes way smoother even if you uselessly downshift in your daily commute

What autistic retard made this pic

The toes blip the throttle the heel brakes

Enjoy not knowing how to drive fuck boys

My heel toe is flawless

You kind of have to find what feels best when you're just cruising. 2000-2500 is the sweet spot in my Golf Any lower and it feels pretty luggy, and above 3k it gets bretty loud.

I think that was a rethorical question m8

Quick question.

How the FUCK did people used to heel-toe in cars with no ABS?

is she drinking piss?

>tfw have to double clutch 3rd everytime

Also how do i downshift into 3rd? Even if I double clutch it grinds...

Alright guys so here's my question:

Picked up a 10' SS Camaro three months ago, learned to handle hills and all pretty well now. So I've been wondering, downshifting, do I clutch, begin to throttle and pull into the gear I want?

Also, if I'm in say neutral and coasting up to a redlight, can I clutch and gas while I pull into the gear I want? I want to prevent that jump I get from pulling it into a gear then gassing.

My dad has a '68 GMC with a 3-speed on the column he's in the process of restoring. It's so awesome. I tried driving it before he fixed the linkage and stalled out at a red light because it would get stuck if you didn't massage it a certain way. I really want to drive it now that it's been fixed.

>Steps to git gud at stick

Step 0(Empty space)
>Find an empty parking lot or somewhere with lots of space for you to fuck around
>Even better if it has a flat section and a slight hill somewhere
>Find spectators so they can laugh as you fail to do the next steps

Step1 (Learn bite point)
>let out clutch slowly till car starts to creep forward
>Get car moving on flat surface without using throttle
>Do this without stalling out

Step 2 (Throttle control)
>Now that you know where clutch grabs
>Same as step one but use throttle this time
>Slowly add throttle as you are letting clutch out (how much throttle depends car to car)
>Repeat until you can go from stopped to moving without being jerky as fuck

Step 3 (Hill Starts)
>Learn to do step 2 while on an incline without rolling backwards
>This is pretty much the same as step 2 but you will roll backwards if you are not fast enough
>add throttle while getting to bite point quickly

(Bitchmode Hillstarts)
>Usehandbrake to prevent rolling backwards
>Same as step 3

Step 4 (Downshifting)
>Learn what the RPM difference between gears
>Learn to blip throttle for desired RPM
>Match RPM with gear you want
>Go down 1 gear (5th-4th/4th-3rd)
>I'm almost a racecar driver mode down 2 gears on one blip
>Practice till you can do this not jerky as fuck

Step 5(Pracetice Practice Practice)
>Go drive
>Go drive more
>Keep doing all these things till you can do them without thinking about it

Step 6 (I'm fucking Dagumi now)
>Now that you can drive and are not jerky as fuck
>Heel Toe Dopwnshift
>Same as step 4
>Left half of ball of foot on brake
>While pushing brake either roll side of foot to blip throttle or twist and use heel to blip throttle (depends on car and pedal distance/setup) do whatever works for you there isnt a right way to do it
>Get the gear you want
>you now down a gear/slowed down and ready to go WOT out of the turn.
>foot off brake and onto throttle

I dont really get this shit

Whats wrong with

>clutch+brake until desired speed is archieved
>put in gear
>throttle to desired rev, release clutch

Why do you need to rev while braking? What do you lose those couple microseconds where the car is rolling with pushed clutch?

heel toeing is just rev matching a down shift while tapping the brakes. why is that only for racing? Mr cool guy with his functioning synchros over here

I'm just learning how to do this, how quickly are you supposed to let out the clutch? I know riding it too slow will wear it out but I can't start properly just dumping it, am I supposed to just get gud?
Also, my car sometimes is "jumpy" when accelerating in first gear, generally around 2.5 - 3k rpm and up, it doesn't happen always though, what could be the cause and should I be worried?

Anwering OP's question:

>slow down
>clutch in, blip, clutch out, clutch in again, blip, clutch out, clutch in, blip, shift to lower gear, clutch out, clutch in, clutch out, blip, clutch in, clutch out, continue driving

It's really that complicated.

I chuckled

a couple of microseconds

Am I supposed to be sort of riding the clutch when getting the car to go? Slowly releasing clutch while giving adequate gas? I hear you have to be extra careful with AWD cars like a WRX in my case

It's not only for racing, but it's just entirely unnecessary for any other application.

In everyday traffic, if you don't have enough time to lazily brake, put left foot on the clutch, and pull your right foot off to blip before coming off the clutch and getting back on the accelerator you need to stop fucking tailgating.

Basically you can do the hokey pokey every time you downshift and never need to heel-toe.. unless you're driving a classic from the 40s-50s or some shit. If you're on this board, you're probably 50 years (at least) too young for that.

you shouldn't need to ride it no. find the bite and let it out smooth and quick

While giving gas AT the bite point?

Yes, slipping the clutch a little is how you make up the difference between your engine(spinning) and the road (not moving)

oh whatever. no one is heel toeing in straightline traffic user.

I mean the only other times I heel-toe are when I want to do hektik skidz.

Someone asked a question. It was answered.

And yes, they are. It shouldn't surprise you that they drive FR-S/BRZ. ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38439

Its called getting gud

Do you know when you rev match and the gearstick gets sucked into gear? Isn't this only supposed to happen when double clutching? Can anyone explain the mechanics of this?
Or do newer cars automagically rev match the (input shaft?) when you rev match without double clutching?