Was the Generalplan Ost a real thing or was it fake (propaganda)?

Was the Generalplan Ost a real thing or was it fake (propaganda)?

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It was probably a meme plan cooked up by some nazi officials which had absolutely no impact on nazi policy, kind of like the USA has military plans in case of a Cuban invasion, but it's since been blown up by propaganda.

it did exist, but just like the holocaust, escalated in stages as the war went on. From deportations across the Urals to denying civilians access to food and water, then finally to outright elimination.

plenty of primary sources on the hunger plan and the ultimate designs for Eastern Europe are out there for reading. saying it was never a plan is just as indefensible as saying the Wehrmacht was clean and uninvolved in the execution of German's new world order.

worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo sources.htm#Versions of the GPO

worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpoarticle.HTM

Then again, I have no earthly clue why Wheraboos try to deny or refute plans to eliminate the slavs or jews, it would stand to reason that they would be proud that 26 million+ slavs died at the hands of the true masters of this world, as they think.

Yes, because I've read opinions that 'this was why Stalin was so ruthless with the Ruskies, because he knew this was the endgame'... and I wondered if this really did affect the decisions, but it seems it did not.

I think this too, but it doesn't really match up with how little they cooperated with Ukrainian nationalist partisan groups. If the Germans had worked with them, which was a readily available option they may have been able to win the war. Their avoidance of doing so seems to me because they took their postwar plans there seriously, it doesn't quite make sense otherwise.

has anyone else wondered where the Germans came up with their population projections for this? It was planned on taking them a decade to Germanize the Danzig corridor, how could they possibly colonize anymore?

I think that Crimea and/or Sevastopol was for a time or at least suppose to be named Theodorica or something after the Germanic Goths who once lived there.

It was a mentality that sank in after a few months to a year, Stalin most likely thought it was Germany trying to destroy communism and the worker's revolution, but after news of all the mass killings and entire soviet cities disappearing in a few weeks, Stalin and everyone in the Soviet Union was convinced that this was a war for their very survival.

The Anti-Soviet partisans caught onto this quicker, where initial pro-German collaborates such as Stepan Bandera's men were met with mass executions and imprisonment instead of fighting side by side with the Wehrmacht. As the mass killings continued, any love the Ukrainians/Baltic nations had for Germany evaporated.

This mentality then fueled the Red Army for the rest of the war, where Russian units developed a near-suicidal resistance and physically ripping Germans apart during battles.

Stories from the battle of Kursk are particularly telling, with Soviet soldiers jumping onto German tanks with satchel charges to take them out, or facing down German armor by themselves firing anti-tank rifles at point-blank range.

regardless of what's true or not, the Russians did believe they were fighting for their existence, and their advance after Stalingrad/Kursk was seen by all of them as a march of pure revenge for all the death and misery Germany brought upon them.

They had the whole women need to make babies propaganda going on so id imagine they hoped itd work really well in the long run.

>eternal teuton

Yeah Germans wanted to colonize Ukraine because it has the most fertile lands in all of Europe.

>Germanic Goths
>germans
I blame English language for that one.

>Hitler makes his intentions of conquering and colonizing Easter europe perfectly clear in Dweitz bunch, and his disdain for Slavs in general is painfully obvious
>"Heh heh general plan ost is just Soviet propaganda, it's inconceivable Hitler wouldn't be very nice to the Slavs should he have won heh it's a total forgery lol"
Wehraboos are cancer

They believe in Goebbel's propaganda since everything other is Ally/Soviet propaganda,

Their sources are metapedia.

As far as I know Rosenberg and some of the other more "moderate" people associated with the Eastern policies acknowledged it was impossible to resettle the whole area the way people like Hitler or Himmler envisioned it; they knew even the Polish areas would take several decades and if I remember correctly, they set out the first phase (the gradual expulsion of the Poles and resettlement of Germans into the now empty lands) to end sometime between the 70s and the 80s. Even then, I don't know whether they accounted for the on-going war.

You left out the best one
>the holocaust is propaganda but I sure wish Hitler killed the jews

>refute plans to eliminate the slavs

Because there was no such plan

>entire soviet cities

Which cities disappeared?

>As the mass killings continued, any love the Ukrainians/Baltic nations had for Germany evaporated.

That's why in 1944 there was still a high level of collaboration and in the case of the Baltics fanatical resistance?

*fanatical resistance to the Soviet adcance

>Which cities disappeared?
Most known example is Babiy Yar.

>Which cities disappeared?
I think he meant settlements, since only in Belaruse they did annihilated more than five hundred of those. Razing a whole city would be quite a feat.

>That's why in 1944 there was still a high level of collaboration and in the case of the Baltics fanatical resistance?
In Balticum? Yes, Nazis were considered the lesser evil and Soviets were hated. On the Ukraine? Nope

>Razing a whole city would be quite a feat.
To be fair, Murmansk and Stalingrad faced Dresden-style destruction in summer 1942

>Dresden style destruction
>Only 25 000 deaths out of like 600 000

If we talk about dresden-style destruction than we'll sure have more candidates than Murmans and Stalingrad

In Murmansk (built of wood mostly) more than 80% of the city was destrpyed by firestorm from bombing raid. I don't remember the numbers for Stalingrad, but they were close.

He's not talking about deaths, he's talking about the physical destruction of the city.

best case I know of is Kiev and Warsaw, Kiev dropped from a city of 1 million to barely 180,000 by the time it was recaptured, losing more than 80% of its population to the hunger plan and people being carted off for slave labor.

Warsaw is also notable, as the entire population was ordered to be killed and the city destroyed to its foundations after the Warsaw Uprising. By the time the Soviets reached it, it was a ghost town.

You know nothing about the Baltics

Legal reprisals to partisan activity. You think the Germans should have let Warsaw go unpunished for what it did?

>From deportations across the Urals
The Germans never reached the Urals

Cooperation with German authorities held due to necessity, there was no widespread affection towards them. Reds were the simply the priority.

t. Estonian

What mass killings lowered the support for the Germans in Latvia, oh great expert? Literally everyone saw the Germans as the good guys here in WW2 and commies as the bad guys. And nothing has changed.

It's well established fact that Latvians are wannabe Germans who just wait to let actual German cuck them.

t. Lithuanian

Did the Soviet union and Germany hire the same architects or what?

Kiev was fought over heavily two times.

Both sides also had scorched earth policy to slow down enemy advance.

No, Speer got a sneak peak of what the Soviets were planning and designed his building to be specifically more impressive than theirs.

>sneak peak

durrr I can wrote english good

>Literally everyone saw the Germans as the good guys here in WW2

My dear Kartupelis, you seem to forget that Estonia had to whip the Landeswehr for you to even become a nation. Were they the "good guys" then? Germans were the old enemy, here arguably the greatest enemy until the Bolshevik coup attempt.

Hell, I've read a Waffen veteran's memoirs, where the recruiter's pitch was "Have Wehrmacht rats dig trenches for you!". And now, half a century later, fags like you fellate the Germans because you just have to have a "good guy" in your simple little narrative.

Estonian-Lithuanian splitting of scatvia when

Dresden was legal reprisal to German bombings btw

>The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put that rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now, they are going to reap the whirlwind.

Very nice webm. Imagine the view the pilots must have had over the fireworks.

>Legal reprisals to partisan activity.
>Legal

It might've been a reprisal for people not bowing down to occupants, but it sure as hell was not legal.

The Mindset and totalitarianism was the same.
Pic related is the planned counterpart to hitlers germania.

Goddmanit, a coldwar between these two factions would have produced such a ridiculous cockfight concerning the realisation of architectural lunacy.

Maaan, imagine some kind of Baathist middleeast strong china/japan with a hardon for skyscraping pagodas and Art-Decor America also trying to compete+Space race.

Is there even a need? It's just...there.

the land deserves to be freed from the l*tvian menace

Totalitarian governments tend to have equally shit taste

Here's the thing about despotic regimes: They talk a good fight but when it comes down to it they can't tolerate art and beauty and produce nothing but soul-crushing ugliness.

...

How about italian futurism, french art during absolutism, the Lionstatues of cruel assyrian kangs and what the tibetans produced when they were still a rigid theocracy?

>just like the holocaust

So basically allies would kill, forcibly move or otherwise cause the slavs in the area to die and then they would blame it all on Nazi Germany?

They were both socialists.

Judging from the quick recovery of the population after the war, it looks more like most inhabitants abandoned the city rather then dying. Most factories were out of operation because machines and key personel were evacuated or destroyed; it would make sense that lots of jobless people move to the countryside where it's easier to acquire food. Large part of the city were also destroyed already in 1941 by the fighting and especially by the large fire that was caused by by time bombs placed there by retreating Soviets.

kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine/remembering-the-kyiv-inferno-1941-1585.html

Probably a combination of the two. Also, that's a pretty big gap; communists were big into resettlement so there were probably a lot of new citizens coming in along with the returning ones.

>pretty big gap
I mean in years (from 1943 to 1956).

>Probably a combination of the two.

Well, it seems the major factor of the decline of Kyiv's population during the war was really evacuation and the draft. Later forced labor must have also played a role.

From the link:

>The 6th Army finally captured Kyiv on Sept. 19, 1941, sustaining heavy losses in men and equipment in the process. On retreating, the Soviet Army blew water-pumping and electricity stations and removed large stocks of food. They also stripped or sabotaged 197 factories in Kyiv and evacuated most of their employees, as well as the staffs of 32 secondary schools and institutions of higher learning. In total, some 335,000 people were evacuated to the east, including the whole Soviet elite and their children. Literally all the males between the ages of 14 and 50 were either evacuated or drafted into the army. However, many of those drafted found themselves captured by the Germans after the encirclement of Kyiv.

>The Germans found that Kyiv's pre-war population of 850,000 had shrunk by half, and was mostly composed of women, children and the elderly. The German census of April 1, 1942, counted 352,000 people in Kyiv. That census did not include at least 50,000 Jews, mostly women, children and the elderly, who were in Kyiv when it fell and later were murdered by the SS.