Is the Holocaust a lie?

msz.gov.pl/en/ministry/polish_diplomacy_archive/collections_online/publication_of_the_ministry_of_foreign_affairs_of_1942__on_the_extermination_of_jews_in_occupied_poland

msz.gov.pl/resource/e7497fea-f446-4f82-80b1-169d609d697a:JCR

>Report of Auschwitz prisoner, 1943

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold's_Report

witoldsreport.blogspot.com/2008/05/volunteer-for-auschwitz-report-by.html

The holocaust happens to us Jews every 3 years. Never forget the six gojillian, goyim.

rly maeks u think

but for real tho

t. reddit

You know who never fucking denied the holocaust? The Nazis. When they were on trial and faced with death they all claimed they were just following orders, but not a fucking one of them stood up and screamed that the whole thing was a farce.

This. I know people only tend to pay attention to information that reinforces their beliefs, but god damn, OP, you can't claim to be any kind of informed researcher and take anything on /pol/ seriously. Learn ow critical thinking and historical research actually work.

It´s a lie.
>history know-it-all
This claim is absurd, don´t ever claim this shit again.

Jeez, was it because it meant that some Germans could be sent to the US to work for the CIA or USSR to work with their intelligent agency? Could it be because the scientist of Germany needed to relocate elsewhere?

I hate it when people just say "this"

but

this

Hey retards he said he is becoming more right wing and DOESN'T want to ask pol this question because he calls them idiots. Learn to fucking read before popping off

>Is the Holocaust a lie?
yes, all those Jews hid in caves in order to make goyim think they were genocided.

Seriously speaking, check the demographics and it should be obvious.

What number you think is exaggerated? Every historian stays roughly in 5-6M.

>holocaust
>burnt offering offered exlusively to God or completely burnt away
>used in classical, mediveal and modern times
HOLY SHIT, JEWS BE PLAYING 38591629(9282828)2929d chess
ROLLING FOR KEKS MEME MAHIC

I think it's obvious that 6 million jews died. But did these jews die in a vast campaign of murder involving the use of homicidal gas chambers, or did they die of overwork, disease and starvation in concentration camps?

Cmon man it's trips, therefore because KEK wills it you must reply

Yeah it's not like they had been tortured to make them confess and would have surely been tortured more if they had denied it in court.

Explain the obviousness of six million Jews dying when Jews did not have a population of six million in Europe as a whole?

Is it obvious

Let me guess. You are only pretending to be retarded?

Something less than 6 million should probably be right. I

They did have a population of more than 6 million.

How?

Why not just kill the jews here and there, instead of using valuable resources to deport them thousands of miles, only to immediately kill them in a very bizarre way.

Never heard of the Jager report, huh? Or other Einsatzgruppen "special actions"? Or how they started going off the deep end after too many mass executions, and it was far more psychologically stabilizing to kill them out of sight, more impersonally?

584,549 MORE Jews in 1949 than in 1940

Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000

World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine gave a total of 115,151 Jews"

World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000

National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000

March 24, 1933, Jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 Jews worldwide

World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"

World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world Jewish population = 15,753,633

World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world Jewish population = 15,748,091, with 240,000 in Germany

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359

World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091

World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")

World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000

Encyclopedia Britannica's 1955 Book of the Year -- 11,627,450, "Jewish figures include all Jews whether members of a synagogue or not"

World Almanac, US News & World Report, 1983 population of Jews -- 16,820,850

World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population -- 14,117,000

World Almanac & Book of Facts, 1989: World Jewish Population --18,080,000

World Almanac & Book of Facts, 2001: World Jewish Population -- 13,200,000

Never forget the six gojillian, goyim.

Yes, I've heard of the Einsatzgruppen, and they make a whole a lot more sense than using gas chambers.

I have a very, very hard time believing the "those poor SS officers couldn't stand the sight of Jews dying so we had to kill them in an impersonal way".

Is that the only argument explaining the use of gas chambers over bullets?

Why doubt it? I mean, yeah sure doubt it because you sorta 'have' to doubt everything to an extent. But if it were a lie by the jews, created to somehow consolidate more power within their ranks, what are they doing with it? It's been more than 70 years since the Holocaust, surely they would actually be trying to do something, if it were all a lie they were using to 'get something they wanted'. Zionism had existed since before WWII, and it didn't REALLY give them much more power than you would think a legitimate genocide would (if it were a lie concocted to gain power anyway).

Literally the only reason I can think of to doubt this, without some illuminati shit, is so they could exploit it inside of Hollywood and make a shit tonne of money off of holocaust movies, since that is all they are really doing. I think Israel would be much, much more legitimate, had the Holocaust been a lie concocted for reasons we do not know.

I mean it's a romantic idea, but literally why? You can create other sources of propaganda if you want to invade germany, or at least stop what it's doing. 6 million dead is a HUGE lie, and if it does blow up in their face (it eventually will, it can't be kept secret for ever) it will only be detremental to their end game.

>World almanac before the revision

Are you aware of the fact MSu is not valid method of data gathering? It is frowned upon in the whole academia. And when it comes to Jewish population and holocaust its almost always used by antisemites

Palestine's Jewish population rose to 6 million shortly after WW2. I wonder how this came to be...

>It is frowned upon in the whole academia.

Who control today's academia?

It was always

But of course you gonna defend it, since it is so popular in antisemite community

WWII obviously gave more of a cause for Zionism.. I am not refuting that. Saying more jews became Zionists after WWII doesn't mean anything.

If you are studying modern history writing a paper with your central thesis being "Zionism and how it is an inherently xenophobic movement" is how you get a HD.

>I have a very, very hard time believing the "those poor SS officers couldn't stand the sight of Jews dying so we had to kill them in an impersonal way".

Well then take it up with Chris Browning, but I doubt you'll win that particular debate.

Not to mention that for a rather large subset of the Jewish population were in areas that were nominally under the control of German allies, Hungary, Romania, etc. You can't exactly go around openly murdering them without at least an official squawk of protest.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html

also, before the "final solution" was developed executions by the ss/einsatzgruppen in the east were seen as too disorderly and publicized at a time where the outside world was misinformed/skeptical of the magnitude of the executions.

the relocation to camps and subsequent use of shower gassing was seen as part of a larger process to be more methodical and secretive (they showers themselves were often underground)

>jewishvirtuallibrary

Excellent goy.

>Well then take it up with Chris Browning, but I doubt you'll win that particular debate.
I don't know who that is.

>Not to mention that for a rather large subset of the Jewish population were in areas that were nominally under the control of German allies, Hungary, Romania, etc. You can't exactly go around openly murdering them without at least an official squawk of protest.
Fair enough.

But assuming that this warrants deportation, if you take the trouble of deporting Jews to camps thousands of miles away, why not use them as slave labor, as they were used in many concentration camps around Germany. Why were a few camps in Poland "death camps"? What's the logic behind this?

The six million figure includes all the homosexuals, retards, communists, gypsies, dissidents and other groups they wanted to get rid off, as well as the Jews, but the figure has been twisted into "six million jews" over the years

youtube.com/watch?v=r5X8qDDMC-o

Six millions goes for Jews only.

[email protected]

>The six million figure includes all the homosexuals, retards, communists, gypsies, dissidents and other groups they wanted to get rid off

No it doesn't. It's 6 million Jews and 5 million others.

May I ask where did you got this piece of information?

11million. Jeez luis, papa cheese.

Yes, you may.

>I have a very, very hard time believing the "those poor SS officers couldn't stand the sight of Jews dying so we had to kill them in an impersonal way".

Death Squads for Jews begin early in the war. Soon these units had an epidemic of alcoholism and were unmanageable. Do you have a hard time believing that not every single last SS, or soldier for that matter, was a reptilian sociopath? Even if you absolutely hate your "enemy", the horror and sorrow of that kind of slaughter will traumatize most people over time.

Where did you got this piece of information?

Correctly please.

"Where did you GET this piece of information?"

fuck off you kike cuckold

I've won this argument.

give the man a break and cough up the source, cocksucker.

Why I never. Now I don't want to. Maybe if you apologize I'll change my mind.

It's midnight and I'm surviving only thanks to caffeine fighting adenosine. So please cut it of and provide data for disscussion.

I am legitimately interested where do these lies come from.

It's true pol is just right win tumblr

>It's midnight and I'm surviving only thanks to caffeine fighting adenosine.

It's tough all over, pal. If you want information, you'll apologize. And you better mean it.

You're honestly an idiot yourself if you believe the holocaust is a lie. It's not even worth arguing with your kind about burdens and proof, because it stares you right in the fucking face.

They were not tortured (at least not those in American/French/British hands -- Soviets, Italians and other eastern euros and balkans are all savages, so who knows). They really believed they would get off on the 'just following orders' defence, because that *had* been a legal defence in military situations. The Holocaust was exponential order of magnitude more than that, so the defence was not accepted.

I will add though, I think it's pretty fucking ridiculous going after 90-something-year olds who were 18-19 when they worked in the camps for a month or two in early 1945 as telephone operators or low-level logistics clerks.

Not all were killed in gas chambers, and that has never been an 'argument'. It is your ignorance for assuming that.

Many were (intentionally) worked to death and so died of combined malnutrition and exhaustion, many were simply shot, and towards the end of the war died on death marches in the tens of thousands.

>It's 6 million Jews and 5 million others.
Fun fact, that figure was made up for political reasons.

>When Israeli historians Yehuda Bauer and Yisrael Gutman challenged Wiesenthal on this point, he admitted that he had invented the figure of eleven million victims in order to stimulate interest in the Holocaust among non-Jews. He chose five million because it was almost, but not quite, as large as six million. …

Source:
>commentarymagazine.com/culture-civilization/history/six-million-dead-but-eleven-or-is-it-twelve-million-universalizing-lies/

>inb4 This is a quote from acclaimed jewish historian Deborah Lipstadt.

Alright. I'm dreadfully sorry for giving your mom a venereal disease last night.

>blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected.
>When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.
play by our rules get out

>and that has never been an 'argument'.
Of course it has. If 6 million jews dying of malnutrition and typhus doesn't have the same impact as 6 million jews dying in gas chambers.

Well that's just rude.

Not trying to argue with you but DON'T use magazines as fucking sources. Okay??!!!

The magazine quotes the book. I'm not the kind of guy who argues using sources behind a paywall.

Disregard the article, read only the quote.

How 'bout you play by MY rules or get out of my face, Jack?

Not even if it's a really nice magazine?

>Disregard the article, read only the quote.

I'll read whatever I want, fuckface.

>As a huge history know-it-all,

Leave him alone.

hello there sam "niggers better run and" hyde

Cut yourself, you little freak.

>, I think it's pretty fucking ridiculous going after 90-something-year olds who were 18-19 when they worked in the camps for a month or two in early 1945 as telephone operators or low-level logistics clerks.
Who are you talking about?

By what?

Do you even know what does MSu means?

My gramps, who has called Jews the antichrist, has relayed memories of Germans marching in, rounding up all local Jews, burning the houses and shops along Main street they owned, and then hearing machinegun rounds off by the forest, on a still summers' night.

So no, the holocaust is not a hoax.

More importantly, though, at least here it was mostly scum who lacked the guns to fight at the front that participated, and were despised (and punched, if possible) by the frontline fighters.

What is interesting is that, again coming from my gramps, when he drank with some Soviet officers in the mid-50s, among other things - they were of the view that "shooting Jews was one of the good things they [the Germans] did".

Make of that what you will.

There was an SS medic tried the other day

I'm talking about how it's pretty fucking ridiculous going after 90-something-year olds who were 18-19 when they worked in the camps for a month or two in early 1945 as telephone operators or low-level logistics clerks.

Yeah I do.

Nice anecdotal there, ringo.

Good.

It does mean "Making Shit up"

Thanks for presenting inteligence of average holocaust denier, btw

t. Uses diaries and the like to form opinions about German crimes and activities
Not him, but wew lad.

Which ones are you talking about?

Thanks for being a salty dog. This board is turning to shit.

To an extent, it is a lie.
To say Hitler did nothing wrong and that the Jews and other "undesireables" were treated fairly is also completely wrong.
I'm sure thousands of them did die to starvation and being worked to death.
Intentionally exterminated, however? I don't believe that for a moment.

All of the alleged "death camps" were discovered in Eastern Europe and the Soviets are hardly known for their honesty.
They manipulated innocent photographs taken by the Germans to demonize them.
An example of this is a photograph of a German soldier posing for a picture with an elderly Russian man which was manipulated to show the same German soldier with his hands on the hips of a hung female Russian soldier or Partisan with her breasts out.

The chimney in your image is not present in any photographs from the war, doesn't lead to anything, and was very likely constructed by the Soviets.

Well, as we all know, there was an ss medic tried just the other day.

The elderly and very young make for poor laborers so the Germans sent them to camps to dispose if them

I'll just focus on treblinka death camp

Around 750,000 genocidal maniacil deaths come down to the word of around 10 Jews

There have been no excavations

There Are no thousands of tonnes of human ash teeth and bone fragments

The method of death is highly I effecoent , the method of cremation is physically impossible ( and ghetto as fuck)

Treblinka was a transit camp for Jews being deported to the east

Check out he book treblinka: death camp or transit camp, everything is sourced and cited, presents a good argument that the official account needs to be revised

Well, the simple fact is - Jews here were simply rounded up, old-school, and shot.

The shooters were mostly drunk, and were provided sausage and vodka throughout the shooting by a specially assigned supply officer.

An established fact. My antisemitic gramps recalling it is what you call the "icing".

Diaries. Not the rantings of a SINGLE senile old man.

>the holocaust happened cause gramps told me so.

C'mon, man.

It kinda does when the plan was always to kill them one way or another anyway. Slave labour, withholding feed, and forced physical exertion for no reason other than to cause exhaustion is not any morally better or absolvable. And as is firmly established, millions did in the gas chambers.

Germany at least has a 'Nazi catcher' paralegal team that researches anyone who worked in the SS or at concentration camps, and forwards their information to real lawyers, who then decide to press charges or not. I think they've convicted 4 or 5 now. It's pretty fucking ridiculous, because the majority of these guys are very small potatoes in the whole thing. Kids raised in a totalitarian system, and in each case so far, fairly obvious they did no actual killing or selecting for killing, but still get convicted for 80,000 charges of accessory to murder. It's hypocritical as fuck because after the war, thousands of willing career Nazis were permitted to keep their jobs (after perfunctory 'de-nazification') for decades. Some became police commissioners, state governors, supreme court judges and so on. Mind you, some of them were directly involved and complicity in mass murder. They were in their 30s or up during the war, and their identities not secret, yet not a one was ever prosecuted (apart from the Nuremberg trials for the top brass)

>I'm
You're not me, faggot.

it appears to have primary sources

Gramps is far from senile.

My point being - his dislike of Jews provides little incentive for him to make shit up.

Otherwise - actions of the Einsatzgruppen in Ostland are well established, down to specific (and realistic) numbers of executed. Including numbers of mentally disabled executed, not only Jews.

Every guy sentenced to death did it so that some scientists could relocate?

>An established fact.

Oh ok. I thought it was all bullshit until you said it was an established fact. That changes everything.

Sources or gtfo, pedro.

>death camps"
Not true at all. Quite a few were in Germany and Austria, and ports of Poland (today) that WERE either German clay until 1945, or were designated to be German clay when the Fatherland was victorious, etc.

The reason more are in the east is because that's where most Jews lived. Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine.

Stfu samefag. Save that shit for /b/