Discuss Pontiac and things relating to Pontiac

>Original Content

I actually kinda like the stock wheels on the early 4th gens. Almost bought a 94 formula a year ago but it was trashed. Interior was completely fucked, trans was leaking, holes rusted through the floorboards, the works.

everyone forgots about grand ams :(

Grand ams were eclipsed by the grand prix, especially the gtp. If they had stuck a 3800sc in the grand am, it would have been a huge success.

Because the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix were more exciting, the Grand Am is useful for me (Blue Firebird owner above) just because I can take parts from it to -SLIGHTLY- up my engine's performance.

What did the grand am have that was better than the v6 firebird?

Why do so many poor people drive Pontiacs?

Father daily drives a 2001 Grand Am GT and when I was a kid I thought it was the bee's knees.

Why do you think? Cause they're cheap. Besides the crappy gm interiors, there's some nice ones with a lot to offer for performance

>If they had stuck a 3800sc in the grand am,
no. bad user, bad!
The 3800 is shit

The 3.4L L36 in the Firebird and the 3400 in the Grand Am are not the same. The cylinder heads in the 3400 are much less restrictive and slot in fairly easily. The cams can also be swapped, though I've yet to see anyone receive any performance from doing this.

Grand Am's 3400: 185hp, 210lb/ft
Firebird 3.4L V6: 160hp, 200lb/ft
Some daring people will take the supercharger from other engines and put in on there after swapping the heads to get to I think ~230hp.

I had a 1993 Grand Prix. It was fun, but a piece of shit, no less.

Of course, all of that is for pre-1997 Firebirds, like mine. The 3800 V6 that came later is better than the 3400 from the Grand Am in every way.

>3.4L L36
this does not exist

Grand Am's 3.4 V6 makes 175

>The 3800 V6 that came later is better than the 3400 from the Grand Am in every way.
no. It really isn't

185 with the optional Ram Air intake

Got a 1990 305 TPI Firebird Formula 5 speed manual that has a tendency to not start. AMA.

I'm thinking of getting a 97-08 grand Prix as a daily driver. What should I know about them?

Huh, didn't realize they used the 3.4 in the old 4th gen v6s. Thought they all had 3800s. If you've still got the original motor I bet you could pop a 3800 in there without too much work when it dies

Dang, I've been selling my car short 10hp then.

Cheap and easy to repair because Chevrolet parts work on them when something breaks (USUALLY, NOT ALL THE TIME I KNOW).

Shit, L32

I went with the Aztec's power because I thought they were the same, oh well. The fact that the heads flow better is still true.

Pics?

GTP? What engine?

If I'm not mistaken, it's based on the 3.1L from the 3rd gens but a little bit better.

This a common swap on GAGT forums

You definitely want one of the 04+ ones. Way less problems, stronger transmission too. The transmission is the weak point in the grand prix

Will add to this, if you're getting the V6, try for the SC version. You don't HAVE to get the V8, but try for the added fun and power of the SC at least.

I figured it would be
What do you like/dislike about it?

Thinking of buying a Fiero anyone got an advice on what to look out for?

The 3800 is trash but reliable.
automatic transmissions commonly fail.

1993-1995 got the 3.4L. They switched to the 3800 in mid-1995 so early 95's had the 3.4 and later ones had the 3.8

>I bet you could pop a 3800 in there without too much work when it dies
nope. WAY hard. The 3800 is completely unrelated, sharing only the transmission bolt pattern, so custom mounts would be required, if not a complete custom sub-frame. The wider angle of the 3800 also makes fitting it in there a pain in the ass.

Yeah you want the supercharged 3800 for sure

Here ya go, chum.

but it is possible.

this is one sexy slut

It's a little floaty on the highway sometimes, but it's fun. I main a YJ Wrangler, so it's fun to shift gears to a GT from a SUV. It's a project car so there's tons of stuff I still need to do to it to get it up to snuff. First: get the damn starter bug figured out so I can get it to the smog station. Spark plugs are a bitch to take out.

Keep those wheels son. Absolute love third gen wheels
Huh I thought for sure it'd fit. Oh well

I'm blessed that I got it in as good of condition as it is. Upkeep is hard, yo.

It's nice man. I bet the highway problem would be easy to fix with a fresh set of struts. Is it really that hard to work on the engine? I know the LS f bodies are a nightmare cause it's crammed way in there

Mostly true... but at the same time, look at values for the Solstice and G8 GXP. Basically zero deals. And that Solstice coupe? Forget about it. Wish I'd bought one.

Reminder that Hulk Hogan bodyslammed Andre the Giant at the PONTIAC Silverdome.

GM, I can never forgive.

Difficult is relative. Compared to my YJ with a 2.5L 4 banger, there's not a lot of room to work on the 305. I'm sure if I compared the Firebird to a modern M3, the screaming chicken would be a breeze to work on because 'Merrica.

OK. since you morons seem to want to circlejerk over the 3800, allow me to enlighten you.
The 3800, from a design standpoint, is trash and the only reason anyone ever remembers them is for the forced induction variants.
The 3400 used in the Grand Am is a superior engine.
The 3400 has:
>A 60* V angle. This makes it perfectly balanced internally and as such, does not require a balance shaft like the 3800.
>a better firing order. The 3400 uses the same 1-2-3-4-5-6 firing order of Nissan's VQ V6's and the Nissan GTR's VR V6 engine. As such they sound sexy with an exhaust. The firing order on the 3800 was a band-aid to sooth a rough running engine so it sounds like shit no matter what.
>The 3400 and its siblings were designed as V6's from scratch. The 3800 is LITERALLY a Buick V8 with 2 cylinders chopped off.
>Aluminum heads and splayed valves. While you can get aluminum heads aftermarket for the 3800, they won't have splayed valves and they won't flow as well as the 3400's
>in fact, the 2.8/3.1/3100/3400/3.4/3.4 DOHC/3500/3900 are better at making power per their displacement than the 3800.
To illustrate, the 3900 was only .1L larger than the 3800, naturally aspirated, and matched the supercharged 3800 for horsepower.

The 3800 is shit and I wish the 3800 meme would die. The only reason it was in production so long was because it was reliable and was dirt cheap to make, even cheaper than the 60* V6's.

>The only reason it was in production so long was because it was reliable and was dirt cheap to make, even cheaper than the 60* V6's.
Wow, imagine that. GM wanted a cheap, reliable engine for their econoboxes

and yet morons praise the thing as a performance engine like it's the second coming of Buddha or something.

...

I know they're not the same. I have a DOHC variant.

Because the 3800SC can be found already sitting in many cheap cars and can be miked for 300+whp for very cheap. That's the whole point of using it for performance-it's incredibly cheap. Buy a gtp for 3k, put another 3k in it and bam, you've got a 12 second car for 6k

It blows people minds on random forums and local greets when I try to explain that no, they're not the fucking same.

Because 200hp is good enough for most people, and supercharging the thing can get you to 260, which most view as either "enough" or a lot. It's also really cheap and easy to get there, whereas getting there with my 3.4L L32 would cost a lot more and require more know-how than most have.

>Buy a gtp for 3k, put another 3k in it and bam, you've got a 12 second car for 6k
or you could buy a turbo Dodge for $800, dump 3k into it and have a 12 second car.
I'm a GM whore but performance per dollar, there are better deals.

>weebs love reliability of a civic
>hate reliability of gm
Go figure

Sure, but you have to admit having a 12 second car for 5-6k with very little work needed isn't exactly terrible

>implying
Nigger, I love GM. I have only ever had GM cars and I am one of the biggest GM shills here.
The 3800 is shit.
Get
the
fuck
over
it

I never said it was a performance engine.

Not a lot of engines that can last 10k on an oil change at 200k.

Lol what's shit about it? The fact that it'll last longer than your 600lb lard ass?

They built excitement.

>Lol what's shit about it?
see:
>iron block/iron heads
>90* V angle
>balance shaft
>shit head flow, even on supercharged models
>shit firing order
>shit at power production
>needing a blower to make 240 HP while having 3.8L of displacement to use
Even Hyundai has made better V6's.

...

That's not a Banshee. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

>muh vee angle
>muh firing order
>muh horse powers
The whole point of the 3800 is to be cheap and reliable, which it does excellently

So the 3400/3.4 should be the Engine i fap to? fine with me. i also use to meme the 3800 but i can change my mind when expose to new information.

As an owner of the DOHC 3.4, I wouldn't recommend fapping to the DOHC variant there. It's an absolute pain the the fucking ass to do anything on.
Want to change the alternator?
Better have 8 hours to spare
>timing belt AND a timing chain
just wtf. I LOVE how the thing sounds but holy shit is it an oddball. Apparently it's easier to work on in the Fiero because it was designed for the canceled second generation Fiero.
youtube.com/watch?v=cCyGSpJCOKI

God I still wish the firebird took that direction sometimes, but im ok with what we got.
hello fellow shill

Aren't late model turd gens based off the banshee?

>hello fellow shill

3.8 master race here, I can't believe I am relevant for once. Ultimate reliability...after you replace the intake manifold gasket anyways.

They were given a facelift to resemble the Banshee 4 concept car, but the Banshee itself never made production. Pontiac kept pushing it, but GM kept killing it because
>muh Corvette

Anybody remember the Pontiac 6000? Can't find those anywhere anymore.

Think I've seen this one around a couple times. Done any mods?

Oh look. The Trash man has arrived.
youtube.com/watch?v=JK0CL7bHbII

You misspelled '59 sport fury

wrong company

Huh, that's not how you spell Montana

>Done any mods?
a few :^)

Were they simple though? Please, elaborate

No mods, but since it needed a new intake manifold gasket when I bought it I went ahead and changed the head gaskets and everything above them for "fun". Engine has 145k miles. It already had slotted/drilled rotors and corvette(probably fake) wheels when I bought it.

Did the 3800 in these have a manual tranny? I'm guessing not

Came auto or manual. Manual is the T5 5 speed, not the nicer T56 6 speed the Trans Am came with.

The Solstice is a classic.

>tfw the banshee would've saved pontiac from going bottom up if it went into production.
In all seriousness though, fuck gm. They were so worried about their precious vette getting btfo yet the brand new zl1's are making almost the same power despite being pigfat lolcan'tturn.

The WS6 Trans Am is my favorite car and I hope to own one one day.

Were the G-body and H-body full-size cars comfy?

Looking for an inexpensive, fuel-efficient (if possible - ~25 MPG highway), highway cruiser. I might have to settle on an LS400, or something BOF like a Roadmaster or Panther-body if need be.

My Grand Prix was an amazing car when it was working. Shame the trans crapped out on it (was leaking trans fluid somehow; probably just all dumped out) when we were driving, no warning or anything..just fucking stopped accelerating in traffic, could of died too.

It's a shame the transmissions in these were so weak. The engines were so reliable, if it weren't for the trans they'd have lasted forever

Obama killed the Corvette non-competition rule back when GM got the bailout. The reasoning was why handicap yourself and your engineers.
Since the bailout, we've had Camaros that were faster than Corvettes so GM isn't worried about it anymore.

The bailout was a shitty deal in general, there was a bunch of companies poised to buy out GM that would of made it much better. But Obummer bailed it out and screwed all the salary workers out of their retirements. \
Fuck the bailout and fuck the UAW

Super sweet Pontiac thread.

Getting my fiero GT painted this summer. Help me decide what I should do.

Do it in blue with white stripes offset to the drivers side, and have the wheels done in either blue, white, silver or black.

Back before sponsorships affected racecar paintjobs, racecars were painted to reflect that nation's racing colors. That's why British Racing Green is a thing. America's racing colors were blue with white stripes or white with blue stripes.

the firebird was a faster camaro

and here's what I mean by offset stripes.

No. The Firebird was a better looking Camaro.

Wow. I'm actually relevant now

>3800
trash