/lite/ - RogueLITE General

I think that's kind of the point. Cursula isn't really supposed to be pretty, especially if you were to see it in a lot more detail than what the game is capable of.

I'm going to lose my shit trying to 100% Isaac. I just know it. Between the Hush and Boss Rush shenanigans, I'm just not good enough to fill out the Lost's post-it

if you think that's bad then go back to rebirth and try to do it
the lost was dumbed down so the keeper could take the shittest most unfun character spot

They were both objectively shit characters, but at least the lost had flight and free DwtD in Rebirth. I'd much rather play rebirth lost than keeper. There are some easy ways to cheese them both, but I feel like the lost has greater advantage simply because of the devil deal potential. Keeper can take devil deals as well, but it's highly unlikely you'll be able to take them as consistently and often as the lost due to his shitty coin-health mechanics basically requiring something like a strength card or judas' tongue.

I tried it for a long time in rebirth and just recently got the Afterbirth DLC. I'd be fine with it if every fucking run wasn't the same as when I was doing Keeper runs. It's all health or on damage items. Dark bums, little chads, every HP up in the game. Never damage or even just some tears up for a change. It's a miserably slow grind to an inevitable death

Yep. Those two characters highlight some of the really big core issues with the balance choices the dev team decided to make. The game is designed around accruing advantages so you're able to win but when a large chunk of those advantages are made more or less worthless on certain "challenge" characters, it feels a lot more like an rng craps shoot than a challenge character.

I much prefer antibirth's take on how to make characters challenging. Bethany and Jacob&Esau are a great example of what I would say is the correct way to make a challenge character. If you've never tried antibirth, I highly recommend it. It's a lot of fun and you can really see the love that went into this mod.

Too bad it's been practically abandoned

S-shut up! The antibirth team is just busy cookin' up something big..t-that's all!

I'm still clinging to this idealistic notion that one day antibirth content will be added in AB+ officially

The difference between roguelikes and roguelites are in that roguelikes are like the game Rogue (as the name implies) while roguelites borrow some traits from it. A roguelike doesn't necessarily need to be turn-based, so long as it shares enough similarities to Rogue.

In the grand scheme, a roguelite has much more in common with an arcade game than roguelikes in general.

>Necrodancer, despite being turn-based, is a Rogue-lite as well because the turns happen in real time.
Necrodancer is a roguelite because it has persisting progress. Death will end an individual run, but all of the items and permanent upgrades you get from the Dungeon Master will persist between runs.

Also, I'm condensing the NTT copypasta a bit. I'm not so much of a dicksucker that I'll just keep copypasting the entire wall every thread -- I've just been too lazy to do it.

Hopefully it will not so AB+ can forever be the inferior version by the lazy developers.

I shoved your pasta into a pastebin and put it under the NT section in the OP. Feel free to clean it up some and maybe make a different pastebin to replace it if you want. I just wasn't sure what all I should / shouldn't put in it so I decided to play it safe and just put everything in there.

Kek. The only real reason I'd be opposed to them merging is some of the shitty things in AB+ being in Anti. Shit like Krampus' Meme laser, le trinket item rooms, and absolutely garbage Angel Rooms to name a few. There are a plenty of good things that AB and AB+ bring that I do miss in Anti though. A lot of AB specific items like maw of the void and serpents kiss, and lucky pennies, for example.

>it feels a lot more like an rng craps shoot than a challenge
Honestly that sentiment describes Isaac as a whole for me.

I can understand that sentiment. Still, the game is a shit load more forgiving on other characters. It's pretty damn surprising how far you can get with a shit load of "bad" items and no damage upgrades, even if it does take an excessively long time.

all zones mode has all the items in necrodancer and doesnt have any of the unlocked extra upgrades you get from outside the dungeons. Bard is a rougelike, but the rest of the cast isnt because they have to play to the beat

>seven leaf clover
>on the fourth chamber
t-thanks game...

How big is bullet hell? I've been there a few times already, cleaned dozens of rooms and didn't find the boss... and then I died because I guees I'm still not gettin gud enough

this
all zones bard is pretty much a roguelike, it's just that the rest of the game isn't

>how big is bullet hell

big enough that you typically can't see the entrance on the map if you're at the boss, even if you're zoomed out all the way. Pic related was from a prototype teleporter I used at the entrance that moved me right outside the boss. Learning to navigate you're way through and avoid doing pointless rooms can help with getting through bullet hell. Boss room tends to spawn very from the entrance so you can kinda use that to find your way a bit. Still, there's always the chance of running into dead ends and such which can be annoying as hell.

>you're
oops.

The realtime vs turnbased thing isn't a requisite to being a roguelike. The most immediate example of this that comes to mind is Dwarf Fortress, but there are plenty of other roguelikes that function in realtime.

I thought they were pretty stuck on the not realtime thing? What makes necrodancer not one then because it has everything else other then the turn based part

That stems from the Berlin Interpretation, which a lot of people do not agree with. They're good guidelines for what makes and breaks a roguelike, but they're terrible as strictly enforced rules. Plus, if you're trying to tell me dorf isn't a roguelike, I don't know what to say.

I have taken down the Hush and Blue Baby. I can't tell if this is less or more miserable than playing as the Keeper.

I find it pretty amusing that nobody can clearly define what a roguelike is. Shit is all over the place in regards to what specifically makes a roguelike a roguelike.

I guess you could just use the /rlg/ definition since we're on this board and they're the "experts"

>Currently, one of the most accepted interpretations on Veeky Forums is that a game is a roguelike if and only if it has these 4 elements:

>Permadeath - Might be optional or have ways to cheat (eg. Wizard mode), but it has to be a core element of the game.

>Turn Based - Roguelikes are about thinking, not about quick reflexes.

>Grid Based - Everything happens in a grid, where every element of the game use a set space, usually one tile, although some games have multi-tiled monsters or structures.

>Randomly generated content - Since (perma)death is so common in roguelikes, every new game has to be different to keep the gameplay from becoming repetitive.

>>Permadeath - Might be optional

Dont worry im not ive never played it just trying to understand

Seriously, the difficulty between this and stuff like Isaas is night and day.

>free DwtD
I too enjoy the sister maggies and red chests full of bombs, spiders and teleports to DwtD

Bullet Hell is fucking huge, there are no shops, no chest rooms, no NPC's, the enemies are numerous and real fuckin bullshit (seriously those shotgun creeps with the bullets that go spastic after hitting a wall are a nightmare).

It's honestly challenging most of the time. Good design, skill never becomes a non-issue.

A simplified version of my personal views on the matter:

Major Elements of a Roguelike:
> Permadeath: Death not only ends your run, but resets the Player's progress.
> Procedural Generation: the world is randomly generated so no two runs are the same
> Possibility for shenanigans: While the control scheme doesn't necessarily have to be complex (we don't need the ability to clean out our ears here), the possibility for interactions should be there.
> Grid-based movement. Rogue was intended to play like a tabletop game. While I'll say this is debatable, most roguelikes do this, so I'll put this here.
> Dungeon crawling. Rogue is a Dungeon Crawler, after all.

Minor elements (Not 100% required)
> ASCII Graphics: A lot of modern roguelikes either start out as such, or add it as homeage to the genre
> Simple Story: Most roguelikes have a straightforward plot of "find/do the thing and escape with your life", but that's absolutely not a requirement.
> Turn-based gameplay. Even though it's common practice, I see no reason for this to be a requirement.

>Rogue: Laid out most of these elements
>Classic Roguelikes: Generally follow the same format as Rogue
>Modern Roguelikes: Generally have the Major elements, liberally follow the Minor Elements
>Roguelites: Basically arcade games. They typically have session-ending death and procedurally generated content, but has a means to save your progress throughout the game.

I'd say that Necrodancer skirts the definition of a modern RL and a roguelite. By virtue of the fact that Single-Zone Mode is given much more focus (at least to new players), I'd peg it as a Roguelite.

>playing with the robot
>every other junk is replaced by red hearts, red hearts when clearing rooms, shops rarely sell armor

THEY ARE NOT EVEN AIMING FOR SUBTLETY WITH THIS SHIT

Man there's just so much that I don't enjoy about Sunless Sea's gameplay.

>just found out the characters in EtG have alternate skins

How do I unlock? And how do I choose them? Also, how come the game itself doesn't tell me about this? It's pretty cool stuff.

Unlock by beating the past with them. You change outfits by interacting with the outfit in the breach, which are next to where the characters are sitting around in the breach.

>Seriously, the difficulty between this and stuff like Isaas is night and day.
It really is, and I kinda love it. BoI can get boring fast when you get shit that trivializes the whole run. I don't wanna be able to play like a monkey and still win. EtG can get to that point though, it just's a HELL of a lot more rare.
>Sister maggies and red chests
Don't forget satanic bible and brother bobby

Thats because shits hard what would you consider the other big rougelites like issac/ftl/gungeon

Spelunky for sure. That game is hard as balls.

Necrodancer also fits the bill pretty well as well as being extremely difficult at it's hardest.

I don't even mind trivializing runs because that takes a while in most cases and it at least can be entertaining, but there are so many things that can easily gimp you or are fairly useless, like the crap we mentioned or shit like circle of protection. Why is the pilot's weapon so bad? I'm not going to blame it for my performance on bullet king but goddamn.

And I just found out the fun way that lockpicks work on the entrance to the oubliette.

I have no idea how I got the clears I did in that.

>Isaac
Arcade-esque game, therefore a Roguelite.
>Gungeon
Death doesn't fully reset your progress, and has much more in-line with an arcade game than Rogue. Therefore, a Roguelite.
>FTL
__________________________________________________________________shit____________

>FTL
>shit
Sounds like someone doesn't know how to play a game.

I havent played much gungeon but you unlock shortcuts and stuff right? Also i like FTL but i enjoyed your description

It's bad because if it wasn't, he'd be really OP. Discounted prices are huge and don't quit being useful until bullet hell, Two active slots allows for potential double active shenanigans, which can get broken as fuck with coolness and also doesn't come with the draw back of having to ditch the lock pick early if you find a godly active like relodestone, and the lockpick let's him take chances that other characters won't or can't. The other characters aren't gonna want to waste keys on blue and brown chests, especially early on when you need keys for oubliette. The rooms with a locked gate that have have (potentially) a locked chest behind them as well as other consumables are also a great example of when he shines. Not to mention being able to potentially get into a locked shop while you have no keys, allowing you buy one or sometimes even more than that depending on RNG. He is an RNG character, but when played intelligently, the RNG isn't affecting the run in a negative way, it's just giving him chances at a bunch of free shit that the other characters wouldn't even care about. On top of all that, you have the OPTION to gamble on shit that actually does matter if you're run is already in a good spot, and then that can cause it to snowball like hell. I really enjoy pilot, but it took me a long time to really understand what makes him powerful. Early on in playing, I probably would've said he and convict were the worst of the four, but now I'm kind of on the fence as to which I prefer more, marine or pilot, though to be fair, any character works fine for this game, since it's just about gitting gud.

There are a ton more situations that are a lot less common where pilot is amazing but I think I've built enough of a case for him at this point.
Plus his alternate outfit is just SO damn stylish, which makes him best.

You can unlock shortcuts to later floors, plus you add drops to the pool by spending money from bosses that lasts between runs or unlocking them via accomplishments.

I'm mostly butthurt over the fact that the lockpick failed the entire floor and some random hooded bullet got me by surprise.

bump

>actually using blanks during boss fights now
>quad shot and demon face
>max anarchy songs
>flawlessed treadnaught with primed primer and black powder
This run is going too well for someone like me. Place your bets on what's gonna do me in.

I belive in you user!

>2 1/2 hp down from high priest
I-I still got this, right?

Pop more blanks!

Cringe.

Fuck hammers, and that random purple miniboss. >Huntsman, tommy gun that's totally empty, demon head, quad shot
>only enough money to reload one of them
>the rest will go to shrine healing
I don't even care about killing the dragun, I did what I set out to do this run.

Of course

The word alone is more cringy than anything nowadays. Almost as overused as cuck.

this kind of makes me wonder what the point of the term "roguelite" even is. isaac was obviously meant to make an arcade-style game for home and not to be a real time roguelike. the similarities seem more like coincidences.

Doesn't make it any less accurate.

I would've had easily if I had another gun or more ammo. Quad shot didn't do nearly as much damage as I thought it would and well, the lockpick didn't really help out this but whatever, I just need to cross that fuck huge chasm and I can start seeing pasts I think.

And fuck gun soul, going through all that shit again with just my starting weapon and a jammed enemy and a knight in the first room isn't happening.

Lets tell rlg that and merge with them then well never die
Im bad at gungeon so i dont know what most of that means

>Im bad at gungeon so i dont know what most of that means

Lockpicks are an RNG item you can use for a 50/50 shot at free access to a container/door that requires a key, at risk of making the lock permanently unusable. His failed five times.

I've never hated Fistula so much until today

This is my fetish, thank you user.

Your fetish is softcore porn with no actual nudity?
Nice.

Public embarrassment, maybe? Either way it's a good fetish. Softcore stuff is nice.

RNG wasn't kind to me and every chest I was forced to break gave me junk. I wouldn't have minded a junkan or some half heart pieces either.

Agreed

>softcore stuff is nice
are you 12 or something?

ENF, or in this case, EUF I guess.
Is there a source, or is it just a friendly drawanon?

Was a delivery I got in a drawthread a while ago. Artist is called Red.

Dude seriously, fuck off. Let people have their fetishes.

oh yeah, sorry kid
here, i won't bully you anymore for posting HOT PORNZZZ on a blue board

>ammo drops on floor one
>key drops on floor five
STOP

Hell yeah.
I feel... Awesome.
Never felt that good ever in my life.

>Coming back from playing gungeon to play necrodancer
>Amazing run
>+3 attack items and an obsidian crossbow
>Hand cramping so I pause before the floor starts
>Notice my crossbow is empty
>Press R to reload
>R is my quick restart key

You poor motherfucker.

Anyone here try necrodancer with a dance pad before?

>BoI wiki doesn't list the ridiculously obvious cheese of Converter & Guppy's Paw
Weird

Not me. I'd love to see someone attempt Bolt with the dance pad though.

The term was coined because people got annoyed by others calling games that were nothing like rogue (save for a few minor traits) "rogue-like." "Roguelike-like" was used for a little while, but that sounds fucking stupid, so "rogue-lite" eventually caught traction.

I'm not asian, so no.

>Doing Delirium run with Azazel because completion
>Clicker
>...alright, I can handle doing Azazel again because he's fucking easy cough cough
>Keeper
>Now on victory lap level of OP with Keeper
This'll save some time

Need help. I'm fairly new to Isaac, I stepped accidentaly on a D1 room and my character went batshit crazy, I tought I fucked up but it deals massive amount of damage. Anyway I have 40 coins and a reroll, what are some good items I should look for?

You're pretty set already. Just try not to reroll again and just have fun.

Ok thanks, I actually feel bad, I'm quite a bad player but my current set up is breaking the gam, I'll kill the womb first time with it probably

Cherish runs like this man.
>probably kill the womb
>20/20
>decent damage and familiars
You've got this.

I have a save file where the only runes I have unlocked are Jera, Dagaz, Perthro, and Ansuz.

It's my go to file for when I feel like having an increased chance of fun.

how to get g00d at jacob Nd Esau?

picked up judas' shadow then killed myself
is this still a jacob nd esau run

Pray to RNG that at least one of them can get strong as fuck, orbitals, similar speeds and tear effects, and not suffering from a stroke.

Blank card and jera is probably the most amusing thing to abuse provided you can get a single battery.

Nope, do it over if you're going unlocks.

oh, im finishing it anyways. and i died the last game it was so frustrating

That's what I've never got about games with unlocks.

What's my motivation for unlocking trash?

I mean, in Gungeon I still haven't bought plenty of Trorc's wares, not because I don't have the credits but because why would I want a shitty Ration or Cluster Mine when it potentially comes at the price of a pack of smokes, Double Vision, the M16 or Flak Bullets?

So, for the 5 Nights at Mom's achievement.

Can I just kill Satan with the polaroid and it will count as a victory ?

Are those normal trash tier or Keeper trash tier? That aside I have no idea why going through a bullshit challenge unlocks something like a pill you'll hardly ever see or an item literally no one wants, and that's not even getting into items that are just useless.

Jesus fucking christ im so fast and I have unlimited ammo also 3 YV shrine procs