/d2g/ - dota 2 general

>hey man lets just give buffs across the board

>no one still knows that Lina can potentially become LD 2.0

>wanting le blue tanky man of destruction to be meta again
how about no

there are like 10 heroes that are more gamelosing than her but that's it
probably best played as support with setup for her stun
he doesn't need talent buffs, he needs pre-10-level buffs, his laning is supershit

The hoho haha man is already back, and will be even more when the frog inevitably nerfs druid. Leshrac in contrast needs a buff to just be viable for consideration, only swindlez picked him as it is,

I fucking wish Ember would get some nerfs.
First it was Leshrac, then it was Storm, now it's Ember.

what if support heroes got buffed all across the board? will it make dota great again?
pros:
more early fights
less braindead ricing safelane carry
less braindead ricing mid
less ironmeme because offlaners can actually die to 2 supports rotation
cons:
butthurt pos1/2/3 players

treads on heroes that benefit from the treadswitching extra mana

phase boots on every other hero

>has to cast spell in order to attack fast
>super limited manapool
>squishy
>no bear
>no op tower taking buff
>mega slow backswing and cast animation
yeah no

>supports constantly being buffed over and over and over and over and over again
>/d2g/ says game is dying
>"will buffing supports make dota great again?"

the power of anime logic

Supports have literally been buffed across the board for the last 15 patches.
The fuck could you do to make them any less catered to at this point? Half of them are viable cores at this point either due to magic amp or right click talents.

>OP post with an irrelevant autist that can't even qualify in the weakest qualifer

who are you putting on OP next? korok? brax? more useless shitters?

but the game already lets you shit on any lane

nah that will add more responsibility for me, how do i complain about carry not carrying me otherwise?
also what realistically happens if your suggestion will come to life is that we get more mid-worthy heroes and nothing else

Kelly

t. exclusive core player
yes if you pick heroes like earth spirit slardar and darkseer
I'd like to see some source on your claim regarding supports being buffed in the last 15 (fifteen patches). IF can just give supports more base stats and worse talents so they aren't as viable as a core. There must be a way

>blink dagger mana free (buff to everyone)
>tp cost reduced
>increased bounty for observers
>glimmer cape introduced
>dust buffed
>guardian greaves
>tp cost reduced again
>shadowblade can now be used while channeling
>ward cost reduced
>observer ward bounty increased
>talent trees that give massive buffs to supports specifically, many carries have mediocre talent trees by comparison
>shrines in general were massive buffs to supports helping retain laning presence either offensively or defensively

Go back, find a patch that DIDN'T buff supports, either directly or indirectly. There's tons of stuff I'm forgetting to, those are just what I can recall off the top of my head.

is it true you cant calibrate at higher than 3.5?

my friend is making a smurf because muh shadowpool and he know claims that his 3.3 calibration games are because valve capped it at 3.5 so hes actually super high lmao

call him an autist and stop talking with him

I think you could calibrate at 4.1 at one point, might just be misremembering though. I dunno.

>come from work
>feel bad since no esports
>power rangers marathon on twitch

>tp cost is also a buff for everyone
>support(cucks) have to give their cores lasthit on observer ward or they ragequit, even though the supports bought the sentry
>mostly glimmers are being used on the cores
>name a support who goes shadowblade and not blink as his/her core mobility
>Talents are buffing other heroes too
>shrines -> be mid, lose mid, pingpingpingping COME SHRINE -> full hp or be offlane, got harassed, pINGPINGpingping COME SHRINE -> full hp. Not to mention most of the time they'll just solo shrine.
there's hardly a patch where support is the only role being buffed significantly. The only significant one I can remember is singular sentry/observer purchase and maybe 7.00 bringing 4 bounties per 2 mins instead of 1.

>tfw getting bucketloads of free macropyre damage because the enemy team is expecting it to have expired already
aghs on jakiro is fun desu

pretty sure 4800 is max

i am agreed that supporting was made shit easy in last patches but some of your arguments are pretty lame
>blink dagger mana free (buff to everyone)
that buff affected carries more since they generally tend to have smaller manapool
>guardian greaves
not an item a support should buy
>shadowblade can now be used while channeling
isn't that like wc3 stuff
>shrines
those are more useful for mid and offlane
you also forgot the most important part about ricing nerfs and buffed gold/xp for kills and assists

The problem is first Dragon Lance. Then laning, and then the talent tree.
Basically her tree is good for carry, but Carry Lina is bottlenacked by mana, cast time, and damage items.

On paper, +255 attackspeed is really good. The reality is that every single fucking camp is magic resistant, and a skillshot stun isn't that much fun.

>yes but it helps supports the most because they were the only ones who had trouble affording them before
>no
>yes, saving your core is your job as a support, glimmer is a massive buff to supports for that reason
>bane, witchdoctor and CM can all pick up shadowblades, I'm not saying blink isn't still the go to but regardless it was a buff to supports with that change, the change doesn't actually benefit anyone else since only supports have channeling spells
>yes but you're ignoring my point, supports got much better talents than carries did

Every single significant patch has buffed supports. Why are you advocating for more support buffs. The game is already extremely different than it was a couple years ago just because if you dive someone early on you WILL be reacted to by 2+ people. That was anything but the case in the past.

>greaves is not an item a support should buy
What is your reasoning?
For a hero that will probably have mana boots and a mek, GGreaves combines the two in an item slot, gives additional benefits and goes on a lower cooldown. Rushing GGreaves is not advisable on a lot of supports, but on any support that gets a Mek it's a logical conclusion for the late game to give them another item slot to work with that removes the mana cost from their heal AND dispels debuffs on them.

>no that was in a patch from last year, shadowblade activation broke channeling spells before

Cumback gold benefits everyone. I would say it benefits supports the least. I'd much rather a 1500 gold killstreak go to my Terroblade than my Crystal Maiden.

>Icepath
>Macropyre creeps
>Next creep wave walks into it
Also i am just glad Jakiro exists, because he is a nice counterpick to Monkey Fun King.

what fucking support buys mek? are you 2k or something

What the hell kind of games are you playing that supports don't get a Mek?

HOLY SHIT this game is dying. MMR flucuation at 4300 is unreal. One game its 5.2k solo player with varying MMR's. The next its a 5k vs 2 4.8k's. Two months ago they highest MMR you'd face is 4600 at low 4k's. Because of a higher sample size of players.

apart from a few exceptions like chen almost none buy mek, urn is more affordable and better option for 90% of the games

por que no las dos?

I'm not saying all supports buy Mek, but many do. It's kind of up to the flow of the game really.
Any game I can rush a Mek as Disruptor is a good game, because it means I got my force staff really early and didn't need an early ghost staff or euls.

Also means I got a fast aether lens.
And that there's probably a second support in the game.

if a weaver and slardar is considered better supports than traditional supports like shaman, lion, lich, wd, bane,... it speaks volume about support role
pudge used to be core, slardar as well. But now they're pos4, partly because they're good at it but also traditional support heroes are so shit that they are less viable than former pos3 heroes

?
kotl is better than them all

just because some supports are shit doesnt mean all of them are

SD was litearlly the most broken hero in the game for like 2 years straight until very recentyl

Lich was always a bad support. He won the lane then was mostly irrelevant.

Shaman and Lion both suffer from being squishy with low range spells, and the meta has drifted towards burst more than it's been in a long time. They just get blown up super easily and are super useless when bkbs come up.
Bane's still a strong support, not sure what you're on about.

Weaver is a good support because of his Aghs, not because other supports are poop.

why are you 4.3k??
just get good you idiot

if you got force staff as disruptor early that means your team is stomping and you could buy a desolator in that situation and it would be as good
mek is irrelevant by the point supports can afford otherwise

that talent for four fiery soul stacks bothers me so much
like wtf she has only three spells, you should either buy bloodstone (which isn't best item for rightclick lina) and spam spells constantly or get that additional stack only by the end of the fight
why just don't increase attack speed bonus for those stacks
>What is your reasoning?
it's a very timing dependent item
it's godly 10 minutes in, pretty okay at 15 minutes, bad at 20 and next to useless after minute 25
the same reason general aoe nukes like dragon slave are strong in the lane and weak in lategame
and most supports can't farm mek that fast and even if they can those 2k are better be spent for something else like blink dagger for lion or half of the aghs for kotl

Or you could throw the game by buying desolator and let your carry die when a mek would have saved him and then the enemy team gets a 5k goldswing because cumback gold is stupid as hell.

Well, why wouldn't a hero with a Escape be better than one without?

Why would a fast hero with good durability be worse than a slow one with little HP?

You also have heroes like CM, which is only picked because she can jungle and ult. Her aura is a stupidly good bonus, but its not extremely good compared to mana managment and Mana pots galore.

Basically: Burst means that some heroes are worse
Objectives means siege and end fast is worth more
Shire gold means taking T3 is worth far more than it ever was
More burst means that 2 seconds of stun is suddenly a lot, and ES still exists.

Just played with a level 23 account with a steam page not set up that was 5k solo. Picked jungle axe and didn't get a blink til 22 minutes. Only to blink call two people ONCE the entire 40 minute game. Check is profile later in the day and he removed publicly showing his 5k solo xD

Prime matchmaking when?

>20+ minutes in
>mek saving anyone
yeah that's not happening

you realise mek is basically a wand right

there is a reason why only really offlaners buy it

I miss you guys, it's been 4 months. I miss shitposting, I miss Zai, I want to play Dota again.. I regret deleting my folder.
t. Zai poster

or you can get a glimmer or force staff and save than from the entire burst or chain lockdown and give them them time to press bkb or satanic or shadow dance or whatever
or you can get a mek and heal them for one nuke/autoattack worth of damage

Don't bother, if you come back you'll most likely bite down and play it and get that drive again. But the game is absolute garbage.

Dota needs it badly, 5k is overrun by account buyers

>Cumback gold benefits everyone. I would say it benefits supports the least.

It definitely hurts supports. Supports have a lot of influence over early game and removing snowballing grossly reduces their impact.

An extra 250hp is still an extra 250 hp. Can make the difference in a close fight, or give your carry just enough health for them to blink out. And it's not just for one dude, it's for your whole team and any creeps and shit.
It's not gonna do it every time, but you're kidding yourself if you think Mek has never made a difference past minute 20.

Why not all three?

people will find ways of making accounts for free anyway

maybe not average joes, but the seamonkies making accounts for sell for sure will so it wont affect account buyers at all

Fuck me, I know it's terrible but it's calling me. I even removed Zai's picture from my wall when I stopped, miss him

I think the best solution is just to remove MMR.

You get a rank instead, and play well enough you get to rank up.
Play poorly, you get ranked down.
If you play poorly enough you can go down multiple ranks at a time. It won't fix it entirely but it would be the difference between one bought account ruining 50 games or 10.

IM RELAPSING ZAI IS STREAMING JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP

>Why not all three?
You're a support, you're not getting enough for that.
And mek is by war the worse of those while costing more and becoming less impactful by the minute. Force and glimmer don't really get worse over time, sometimes even better.

>serpent wards no longer have splash damage
>serpent wards no longer get a shitload of damage with aghanim's
why?

>Why not all three?
i would like to, but every time enemy team doesn't want to cooperate and wants to kill my carry every minute

Is a support with 10k networth really that unbelievable? Those three items aren't exactly super expensive, and Mek has an incredibly easy buildup no less.

because memepushing is toxic and unfun

>I think the best solution is just to remove MMR
>You get a (rank) MMR instead
???

There is several other things as well, such as HOTD now giving a stacking 8hp/second aura
Meanwhile Mek costs 475 gold more for 4/second. And once you look at the uptime, it gives another 4HP/second for each second of cooldown.
And Guardian Greaves are at 6.25 HP/second per uptime.

HOTD is simply too good.
But then again: It stacks with Mek, Pipe, Headdress and Vlads for HP regen.

Icefrog finally did math on how Serpent Wards Aghs + Refresher worked.
If you have that, and you get creeps to disable the backdoor regen, you can Aghs + Refresh for a instant throne kill. Its not a lot that can be done to stop it.
The fag also made boxing harder, which makes the hero painfully bad.

You know what I mean fagbutt. + or -25 for a game versus wood, bronze, silver, gold, platinum, titanium, uranium, whatever.

You play like shit with a bought acount and lost 250 MMR in 10 games and continue to ruin another 40 games before you're finally out of that MMR bracket, or you play like shit with a bought account and after losing 10 games with 300gpm and going 0/16/4 average you drop from platinum to silver.

and how would you calculate that gain/loss per game?
not to mention tiered list like bronze/silver/gold literally don't mean anything at all

>low gpm so you lose 2k mmr
5 cores every game im hyped family valve should hire you

Exactly how I just said you zucchini. You play bad you get demoted. Hell, here's an idea, extra vetting placed on loss streaks.
You can lose but still have good gpm or kills or whatever. It would hardly be an impossible method to implement.

You play well, you do great, you win, you go up in rank. Your winrate stays around 50%, you stay in rank. You lose 60% of your games? Demoted. You lose 80% of your games? Into MMR hell with you.

Low gpm in one game? Nah.
Low gpm in 10 games? Suspect.
Low gpm + feeding in 10 games? Smurf.

This would literally only affect account buyers. My longest loss streak ever was 12 because I was new to the game and had no idea what I was doing. My longest loss streak since then has been 6, but then I also have winning streaks. Average a 54% winrate.

Not smurf account buyer. Words and shit how do they work.

>let me provide this anecdotal evidence as proof that no one can go on double digit loss streaks

And as long as you're not feeding your ass off it still wouldn't drop you more than a single rank.
And if you do go down a rank and are actually better than the rank you got dropped into, you'll climb out of it just fine in another few games.

if you still think that having force staff and glimmer not enough for saving your carry than you should start buying lotus orb or linken or you can go another direction and buy something like hex which will help more than A FUCKING 250 HEAL

It's a lot easier to build a mek than it is a linkens or lotus, user.

how do you make this system not punish supports/offlaners more than mid and carry?
if you reward people for playing greedy, ''playing for themselves'' then people will do that even more than they do now.
its fucking easy as an support to secure decent gpm/kda with for example cm, just farm hard and get midas and stay out of fights and then just clean up some fights that you lose but you dont die in, but it wont make you win games more

yeah obviously if you make the system only affect people who go 0/20/5 every other game then it works, but that would just make these fucktards farm farm farm and dodge fights 24/7
can you imagine having an account buying earth spirit on your team that refuses to take risks? its p fuckeasy for him to get decent gpm but he will still lose you the game

tl;dr even fucktards will be able to beat the system by somehow playing even worse and impact in dota is too hard to evaluate based on stats especially in close games

What is this rank you're talking about and how Would we go and divide it? Does it change every 500 mmr? 250 mmr?
What exactly is "doing well" in a game? high gpm/xpm? high hero/building dmg? high kda? high cc time to opponent? how about vision/dewarding? how about shotcalling? Not to mention it differs for every hero/role. Can someone possibly factors those into a formula which translate into mmr gain/loss per HERO per game? Not to mention if the game gets patched, you gotta tweak some numbers

they are also more impactful than a mek
pudge can hook your PA, you can lotus her midlfight and since he can't dismember her she presses bkb and kills everyone or blinks away to safety
OR YOU CAN HEAL HER FOR 250 WOW THAT SURE HELPS HER LIVING THROUGH ENTIRE TEAM BURST

Let's just get this straight shall we

Mek a big boost for early fighting as it gives all round survivability: hp and armor

Utility items have worse buildups but don't fall off as fast.

If you want to end at 20, buy mek. If you want to still have use at 40, buy force glimmer. Really not very hard to understand

Because you'd still need to actually win to go up in rank?
Winning would determine if you go up in rank.
Losing would determine if you go down in rank.
If you're losing while doing incredibly badly you'd get demoted multiple tiers.

What about this is so hard to understand?

Well I have more than a few ideas, but let's not forget this is a multi billion dollar company. If anyone has the time and resources to make a better system than the current terrible MMR one it's definitely Valve. Don't pretend this is too hard to implement like it's some small family company barely keeping the servers afloat. It's Valve barely keeping the servers afloat.

MMR sucks and it's a shitty system and there's no reason Valve can't come up with a better one except that they're lazy fucks just looking for more ways to get people to buy sets as ranked continues to go down the shitter.

if you're support and you have 10k networth in the stage when mek has huge impact on the game, you're probably stomping anyway

post tony edits

>If you're losing while doing incredibly badly you'd get demoted multiple tiers.
>What about this is so hard to understand?
because bad kda/stats doesnt always mean you played worse than your team

...

You could literally just intoduce some form of mmr acceleration so players winning significantly more or less than 50% have greater mmr changes.It's basically the same idea but without all the obfuscating bullshit.

Sure, but if you play like trash 10 games in a row, what's your excuse?
Everyone has off games, nobody who earned their spot loses disastrously for a month in a row un

>/d2g/ after Mason wins Kiev

That would also work, really most anything would be better than the current MMR system. It's trash.
I played against a QoP that forgot to buy items the other day. I killed her 5 times in 5 minutes, my team killed her another 5 times in the next 5 minutes.

>it's another safelane Slark that rushes a midas

yeah just won a game where my 6.7k slark did this

which one dotards?

Let me play doubles advocate for a second here.
Sometimes Slark's best course of action is to rush a Midas and afk farm because the enemy team will kill him if he tries to gank. It's a doggy dog world out there, and Disruptor pickers are a diamond dozen. Shadow Fiend is also very popular and very good at exploding Slark in the early game regardless of itemization or kda.

Better to 4v5 than 4v5 and have a feeding slark.

whats stopping you

elo is litearlly the best ranking system humanity created

its trash just like democracy is trash but there isnt anything better

if you have something better you will literally make millions of dollars selling it, but you wont becuase your ideas are really trash and lack any objectivism
"i think he is trash so he should have his mmr reduced" doesnt really translate into code my man

My lack of skill and the fact I hate playing CM and Sandking.