Should I get Webasto?

Should I get Webasto?
Got rather cold winters, up to -20C(-4F) degrees.
What are pros and cons? Why is it better than just turning on the engine and waiting for a couple of minutes like that?

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Might as well light your car on fire I used it and it's shit

Go get it user

For me it was not cheap option, you will need that standalone unit, mounting kit for your specific car, have it installed, plumbed and wired professionally and on top of that you will have to pay for either a timer or remote control. Overall that thing gets you over 1k EUR..

Why is it better than having the cold engine start and idle? Because it is connected to water cooling loop of the engine and that way uses your heater core to warm the interior. At the same time it heats the entire engine block, its parts and oil.

So when you come to your car after 30 minutes not only it is no longer freezing on the inside, you don't have to clean windows, engine temperature is nice 20-30 degreesC at least and what you get is a normal starting conditions...

Cons are initial price, longevity (fuel lines will rot after 5-6 years), need to have a strong battery (preferably new and uprated), unability to remove it (as it cuts into cooling loop, you would have to patch it somehow). Also, needs some maintenance because after the summer it may not be able to suck in fuel to start - instead it would drain your battery dead trying to suck fuel.

Worked for me, had it on 2 cars.

>pros (depends a bit on your model)
Warm engine
Warm interior
No ice on windshields/a lot less ice on windshields
Can be used anywhere as long as you have fuel

>cons
Costs a bit to install
An electric block heater/water heater gets your engine and interior more properly warm

If you only ever really park it at your residence and you have access to a power outlet then I'd recommend an electric package from DEFA, as it does a better job and is cheaper in the long run. If you don't have access to an outlet then Webasto is the way to go

Tell us more

I have one and I'd say go for it. That feel when you get into your warm car and drive all the other scraping fagets.

However I live in a country where idling your car to warm it up is illegal because of muh environment.

At a certain point the car doesn't really heat up when at idle anyways. I worked (software consulting, flew there weekly) to an area where the mornings would regularly be -18F/-27C and you could remote start the car for a fucking half hour, that cabin interior would never heat up.

This, OP. If you can, electric block heater is usually more gud and cheaper. Though if you park outside for work or anything, you most likely will have to deal with cold

>I live in a country where idling your car to warm it up is illegal because of muh environment.

Gawd damn, Sun

What if you do idle? Your neighbors gonna tattle on ya, the prissy cunts? Fuck them, now you have a good excuse to use the "frozen plate of piss slid under the door" trick

The engine works it's way up to operating temp, doesn't mean the cabin/interior will get defrosted

Only way to do it would be if you had the heating set to "on" before you last turned the car off (preferably on a low setting to help the engine warm up quick), and when started, it gradually warmed up. That is, if you have the ability to do so, though usually only the slider or selector knob type of HVAC controls allow the trick

It doesn't matter what the heat setting is on your A/C, at a certain point if it's so cold the engine can't heat itself up enough to make hot air the cabin air will still be cold as fuck.

>that gif
fucking opel vectra, had it once, thing has ridiculously sensitive steering i was literally sweating from fear on autobahn
though it was very useful in low speed corners

>However I live in a country where idling your car to warm it up is illegal because of muh environment.

Holy fucking shit. This is why I can never take any European talking shit about America seriously. There are just millions of these little cucked laws they have to abide by that they don't bring up in discussion because they know they would be ridiculed and it would invalidate their entire argument. Of course Americans can't even conceive such a retarded law so they don't know it exists either.

fucking lol

>However I live in a country where idling your car to warm it up is illegal because of muh environment.
These are the same yuropoors that make fun of america

>Vraiment vous fait penser

I don't know about gas engines, but most diesel engines nowadays are so efficient that idling won't get them to operating temperature. Maybe in the summer with the AC blasting, but not in winter.
They even get cold when driving around with lots of start and stop situations.
Further proof that diesel engines are not for city driving.

wow it must really suck to live in a freezing ice country

i feel sorry for all of you

It doesn't get them to operating temperature, BUT it does make it get to operating temperature a fuckload quicker once you start driving - and when its -30c outside thats a big comfort

>-30c outside
id literally kill myself

Cardboarding the shoit out of the grille makes a big difference, bae. Especially if it's a longitudinal engine with a direct or viscous fan

Did it have excessive amounts of aero lift, too? That's always such a treat

I so have sensitive steering on cars, I remember that once I drove me e36 up it's top speed, 230 or so Km/h. The revs were at the upper limit, and so the steering was light since the power assistance increases with engine RPM. Compounded with it's natural desire to take off, it made for a heck of a ride and a sensitive, light steering

And that's a "sports/tourer" car, not even mentioning the short-wheelbase chebby pickup I drive every now and then. Thing has the turn radius of a coin, and so much as looking in one direction makes it shoot that way. Can't loosen your grip on the steering wheel cause the empty bed, ready to take a literal ton of weight, is bouncy and as high as California on April 20

That's new to me. Then again, we don't usually see temps below 24°C, and it isn't rare to see them shoot past 42°C so there's that

Now, diesel engines are far better for city driving, since they are much better at idle and part-throttle operation (not fighting vacuum of a throttle plate like spark ignited engines), which is more common for city driving

If they don't warm up, it's a design thing, not an inherent problem having to do with the diesel/gasoline issue. Possibly oversized cooling systems/openings, which is kind of strange in today's economy-minded vehicle world (keeping a cold engine running takes more fuel than a fully warmed one, so designers like to keep things as close to the "limit" as possible, of course with some breathing room)

Its not too uncommon here in the coldest months (January/February). is from Febuary I think, can't remember as its not the original file. Pic related was 14th of January last year

Just plug your fucking car in during the winter. There's a reason they put those outlets in every single parking spot.

Also -20c isn't fucking cold.

Still.... doesn't this shit look amazing?

what country? russia? ive never experienced temperatures below ~0c, and even then i want to kill myself

yeah im sure the rural areas look amazing with the snow covered landscape, i imagine the cities become filled with dirty ice and slush that just sucks though

Why are you so mad?

i live in north Canada and about 3-4 years ago it was -50c outside, we got the recorded temperature of coldest spot on earth that day. my 25 year old truck was outside all day and barely started and the clutch pedal was like stepping on quicksand

depends what youre used to, i love winter and im fine with -10 to -25c, ive driven to the southwestern USA and when its 45c in Las Vegas and all that i fucking die. when i was a mechanic id be working on undriveable vehicles outside of the shop outside in the snow in -20c, summer in the shop where it was 50c inside closed quarters with no AC in insulated coveralls none of us could work

Get a block heater, plug in 3 hours before you leave, stop being a gigantic pussy, let car idle for 5-10 seconds max, god damn drive.

>depends what youre used to
yeah for sure. i live in georgia born and raised and it gets hot as fuck during the summers but its the humidity that is the worst part. i was actually in las vegas a few weeks ago too and yeah it was hot there but not nearly as humid as the southeast. the heat is really bad but id still rather it be ~90*F with high humidity than to be freezing my ass off in sub freezing temperatures

>its the humidity that is the worst part

>When you want to be a good boi and you don yer safety gaggles, but they fog like hell in under a minute because 90% humidity and of course it's damn hot

Such fun when 20-year-old insulating foam from the underbody is breaking down and raining on your face, I sware

>However I live in a country where idling your car to warm it up is illegal because of muh environment.

Eastern Norway, as far from the coast as you get

You've gotta go a lot further north before you find similar temperatures

Aye, which is why only fucktards live in cities

You can have mine, I took it out because I never used it.

The advantage vs just turning on the engine a bit earlier is that you also heat the block (I think? At least mine didn't have any kind of diverting contraption to just target the heater core...) so there should be less severe wear from the cold start.

Do get a really good battery though.

Also what said, if applicable to your situation, an electric block heater is better IMO. Doesn't tax the battery so much either (maybe not at all if you can run the fan off it as well).

Also you're a pussy if you don't install it yourself. It's pretty self explanatory.

I've never seen one that runs off a battery, and frankly I wouldn't use one

My heater uses 750w from a 230v, running such a thing from a 12v system would mean a drain of 62a - and thats from a cold battery with limited output and capacity

And lets not forget to take into account the interior heat fans people put in, GPS trackings and whatnot

Can you give me a link to this battery-powered engine heater you're on about? Or am I being retarded and misunderstanding?

I meant running the blower fan from the battery, not the entire heater. Or does the block heater generate its own 12V supply to power the fan?

Also in the first few lines I was talking about a Webasto heater. Those run the fan and water pump off the battery as far as I can tell.

you should switch to a gas powered car, so your fuel won't be turning into a tar every night

Ah, then I see... well, no

youtube.com/watch?v=UBh3Hx64Qx4

A block heater heats the engine block, thereby also heating the oil, the air around the engine and the water. This makes for an easier start, less engine wear and with an effective enough heater - instant warm air.
>powered by standard power outlet
Water heater does pretty much the same thing, by heating and circulating the water/coolant in the engine. The pros for this is that its much easier to set up and much more universal, with the con being that they are usually a bit less efficient than the block heaters
>Webasto
Webastos run on fuel, aka the fuel in your tank. They don't use much fuel, and they're pretty damned efficient. A good pro is that you can use them absolutely anywhere, eliminating the need for a power supply. The con is ofcourse that fuel is more expensive than electricity

None of the systems I've ever seen uses the cars own fans/pumps. The Webasto uses its own line and pump, while block/water heater systems (usually from Defa) typically have either just the warming of the engine, or a small outlet has been set up inside the car that you can connect an auxilliary heating fan to, which will warm the interior of your car while the engine is also being heated, with both of them running from the same power outlet

>much easier to set up and much more universal
Nigga what? You just plug it in. If you're in a rare situation where there isn't an outlet within reach of the built in power cord, just run a fucking extension.

Dear tripfag: You don't have to explain how a webasto works to me, I had one in my car.
It had a little relay that spliced into the fan wiring, turning on the fan to actually heat the interior.

As in to install it. A water heater is much more universal and easier to install than a block heater.

Ah, like one of the older systems? I've seen those, but not in the recent years due to the heating elements having their own pump/their own hose that helps warm air get into the cabin

What do you mean install it? It's part of the car, like the windshield or fuel tank. You don't install a block heater man.

Yeah it was an old piece of shit, kinda like my car. Did have a remote control though.

As for a Webasto that runs the water pump; never seen or heard of it, and with just about every car having its water pump driven by a belt and not by electricity I'd think it either doesn't exist or is an extreme rarity

Or is this yet again me not having seen a special Webasto edition that also has its own water pump attached to the system?

No, the water was circulated by a pump that was part of the webasto system. That's what I meant in . Re-reading that post, I can see how it might be confusing.

I'm not sure what you mean by it just being a "part of the car". Ofcourse you need to install it.

You have to remove the plug or whatever your engine has in the hole, put the heating element in and set up the wiring, and then make a point where you can put the cable into it

Neat - never seen one of those

>You don't install a block heater man.

I mean, I guess if you're building the car yourself you need to install it. But not if you're buying a car like a normal person.

What the fuck do you mean by "block heater"? I think you have a VERY different perception of what that is compared to the rest of us

Dude, you do exactly what said. It's not fucking rocket science.

My brothers shit box mk2 diesel Jetta doesn't warm up fully in the winter, even after hours of driving

That sounds more like a thermostat problem

Block heaters keep your engine and fluids warm to make starting the car on cold days easier. You plug them into an outlet. That's why parking stalls all have electrical outlets.

YOU don't do that. The workers who build the car in the factory do it.

Gets hot fine in summer
It's a piece of shit VW though, what do you expect? German cars are boring and shitty.

What kind of cars come with those from the factory? I've never seen one that comes with it from the factory, only ones that have had them installed by the dealership before being sold as a new car

Please, show me a manufacturer who sells cars with these from the factory

Factory, dealership. Doesn't matter. Just like it woulnd't matter if your seats were installed at the factory or dealership.
All vehicles get them installed before people drive them. The only way you're installing your own block heater is if you're building your own fucking car, or the standard one has died (and the only thing I've ever heard of braking on a block heater is the power cord. And that's an easy fix)

>all vehicles get them installed
Except they dont? I've installed quite a few of these, and guess what; never encountered an engine where there already was a heating element instead of the standard frost plug

Why would they spend extra resources and time putting these in when the absolute majority of all cars are sold and drive in areas where a block heater is essentially useless?

And if I was building my own car then where would I get an engine without an element already if all vehicles have them?

Why have I worked on so many vehicles that dont have them?

I've never seen a car without one my entire life. Never heard about a car without one till this thread.

My Jeep wagoneer came with a block heater. The people on the IFSJA forums refer to it as factory but who knows anymore on a 30 year old truck.

I am quite honestly starting to think you're just pulling my leg with this thing

I would hazard a guess that you live in a colder climate. Block heaters are pretty uncommon in the southern US. Northern dealerships will often have them on all their vehicles, but the dealers in Mississippi have probably never even seen one.

I live in northern canada.

>Why would they spend extra resources and time putting these in when the absolute majority of all cars are sold and drive in areas where a block heater is essentially useless?
To add to my previous post, I live in southern california and my wagoneer came with a block heater. According to the VIN it's always been a CA truck. Make of that what you will but somehow I doubt a CA dealer would've installed a block heater on a truck destined to drive around in sunny weather all year.

most vehicles its an option.

my sonic has a FACTORY INSTALLED block heater.


where i live most vehicles sold here have them due to below zero weather for 5 months of the year


My truck that was originally bought in texas however does not have a block heater and neither does the civic that came from california (i even had to have the honda dealer here change the ecu settings for the thermostat so it would even warm up)

i wouldnt say block heaters are 100% necessary but they do save some wear and tear on your engine

And I live in eastern Norway, also a place with very cold winters - still, not every car has a heater

I'm willing to accept the fact that some vehicles probably will have/had it as a factory option, but to say that every single vehicle sold new has one from the factory is a bit tough for me to swallow

This. I live in the southern U.S. and I don't have one. It doesn't get below 10 degrees Fahrenheit even in the winter, and is usually warmer than 50 all year long. (Black paint with Black Leather Interior master race)

Then either your cold isn't that cold, or your cars are shit.
How do you start the car when it's -50c outside in the morning without a fucking block heater?

>tfw 300k mile shitbox vee ate still starts without block heater in -30f just gotta crank that bitch twice

-30 isn't that cold.

If those are the temperatures you regularly see during the winter then it makes a lot of sense.

The reason why you only ever see vehicles with them is simply because any vehicle in your area without one is 100% useless for half the year or maybe even more.

My area doesn't get that cold. -30c to -35c is quite common during the nights, with -40c or just under does occur every now and then. In my local area most cars do have engine heaters, but there are plenty who don't. These are usually people who park their cars inside a heated garage at night, or catch rides to work on the coldest mornings as their cars don't start

Still, even at -40c you shouldn't have trouble as long as the battery is in good condition and the coolant & oil isn't frozen (which the oil fucking will be, which I would avoid like the plague)

An extra problem here is that the absolute majority of vehicles are diesels. This means its even more important to have a good, strong battery, and ofcourse glow plugs that work as intended. We also start selling winterized diesel at the start of each winter, which is simply diesel with a much lower point of gelification

My guess is you've only ever seen 2 cars in your life

Maybe the factory (mis)identified a problem with them and/or they had a "reputation" for not starting/being wonky without them? Maybe the owner specified it because he liked to spend his leisure time hunting babby seals in the canuck boonies or Alaska?

Wait a second bruh. Their cars generally start fine WITHOUT block heaters, yet they are shit? They don't need help with cold climate starts...and Sorry cars do?

MightyBenz lives in -30C climate, that's darn cold, so I wonder how cold it usually gets in A Fucking Leaf...

-30c is a fine daytime temperature. And even with indoor, you can't buy a car without a block heater here. They just aren't sold.
Diesel is reserved for commercial/industrial though.

I've seen hundreds. And last month (April) it went down to -26c. We still have snow right now, but by the end of the month it'll get up to +30 going by last year. Canada is a fun place to live.

Exactly - nobody in their right mind would sell a vehicle without a heater there as they know that they would either not be able to sell them as people would demand one, or they'd have really angry customers returning with the start of winter as they weren't able to find the plug to put the cable in

I kinda wish more people would have & use them here... much less EGR trouble, less emissions, fewer breakdowns and so on

And I know your temperatures feels. Its -2c outside right now, but tomorrow it might even hit like +20c in the sun

Ah, so that's the situation

If'n you want fun, try working in an area where the climate is typically 70-85% humidity with 39-44°C in the shade. Day and night heat and sweating drains not only your liquids but your soul, and you can't just have localized air conditioner like you can plug some electric heaters and warm up the frozen metal bits/your general work area

If you're wanting to play "What's Worse" between the Jungle and the Tundra. Your Jungle is going to lose.

If you drop a man naked in the middle of the jungle, he can live more then a few seconds.

I'll pick the cold over the heat any day

Its easier to dress for the cold than it is for the heat