I want to talk about transsexualism and the transgender movement from a philosophical point of view. I am talking about people who want to be the opposite sex, not people who see themselves as some kind of third sex.
From what I understand
>transsexualism occurs almost universally, independent of culture, but defined differently depending on the culture >about 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 30,000 people are transgender >the ratio of MtF to FtM is about the same in children, but for adults there are more MtFs >transsexuals usually first experience their feelings in early childhood >transsexualism correlates heavily with suicide, being murdered, being raped, having drug addictions, having stds, being homeless (especially children and teenagers), having (other?) mental diseases, being outcast from friends, family, society
with the common descriptions of these feelings being
A) >I wish very badly that I was born the opposite sex, so badly that I want to dress like, act like, and live as if I was born the opposite sex B) >I was born in the wrong body, my brain/mind/soul is actually of the opposite sex but the rest of my body is not C) (which appears to be a very new concept I've only read about in western societies) >Gender is not real, and because it's not real I can choose to be whatever I want D) (common in the middle east and places where transsexualism is allowed by homosexuality isn't) >I want to be the opposite sex so that I can be in a relationship with someone the sex I was born as
Personally I feel as though transsexualism, just based on the evidence, is some kind of heredity / developmental defect rather than some kind of acquired mental illness. It seems like all of the issues associated with being transgender come from how your position displaces you from society and normalcy rather than the behaviors associated with being transgender such as wearing certain clothes, makeup, adjusting voice etc (all harmless)
What is gender really? You always hear that gender is a social construct, which implies that gender is invalid in a way but on reflection I don't feel that this is the case. Language is a social construct but that doesn't mean it isn't real, it isn't useful and valid.
Sex is what biologically differentiates humans. Men are bigger and stronger, women are weaker and softer. Which then extends into gender. Strength becomes associated with masculinity and weakness with femininity despite that fact that males can be weak and females can be strong. Of course the strongest female can never compare to the strongest males, but the fact is that strength and weakness are not inherently male or female traits, they are just traits. All of gender really comes down to this. Women have less hair then men, so hairlessness is associated with women even though they still have hair all over their bodies. Men cut their hair so that it doesn't get in the way of their duties, then eventually short hair gets associated with men.
In this way of thinking, why can't a man assume the roles and expectations (that are available to them) of a woman in their society? And the same with a woman assuming the roles of a man?
Obviously a male cannot have children and cannot assume the role of mother. But a woman doesn't have the male strength, endurance, and power needed to be an effective front line warrior (soldier, special forces) or boxer (competing against men). But not all females become mothers and take advantage of that particular biological ability, and not all men become warriors or athletes or any role that requires the full extent of male physical capabilities.
If society expects the IDEAL woman to have gentle posture, long hair, makeup, feminine clothing, and a male is wiling to put forth the effort to do all this, why should he not be given societal permission to be recognized as a female instead of as a male? For all intents and purposes.
Jackson Bailey
>Personally I feel as though transsexualism, just based on the evidence, is some kind of heredity / developmental defect rather than some kind of acquired mental illness.
It's neither. It's an aesthetic, or way of life.
It's so tiresome that people fail to understand this.
Chase Hall
God poured stupditiy generously into this one.
Colton Ross
Going back to A, B, C, D from my first post I feel that people who feel A should be allowed to be recognized as the opposite sex if they are willing to conform to their chosen role. I think that B is delusional, but these people might be the same as A, just that their desire to be the opposite sex is so powerful that they have invented justification for it.
C just feels stupid to me, like it stems from a lack of understanding or a lack of care about gender. If gender matters so little to you, why does it matter what you're called? I just can't respect someone who wants to be labeled and seen as something without any actual effort and demonstration of need. D of course is just people who are getting around legal issues in order to fuck who they want.
On a related note, I think that 'genderqueer' and 'other' genders are bullshit, I wouldn't mind hearing from someone who wanted to justify those views though.
After reading avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm I really don't think that's the case, at least for people who experience gender dyshporia. I don't doubt that there are some people who just choose to be trans, but that's a real case of winning the genetic lottery there. Most transsexuals who attempt to transition do so despite the possibility of not being able to actually pass as the gender they want to be, which makes me think it's compulsory in a way.
Matthew Rivera
>user A posts a long, detailed post regarding his opinion. >user B is mad because it's adam and eve, not adam and steve
friends don't let friends be user B.
Gabriel Fisher
I'd be happy for you to point out what you disagree with. Maybe I am just being retarded
Hudson Lewis
>I wish very badly that I was born the opposite sex, so badly that I want to dress like, act like, and live as if I was born the opposite sex
I blame anime.
Robert Barnes
How do you explain transsexuals from 50+ years ago? Pic related was born in 1944
Matthew Thompson
I'm just memeing, you dip.
Bentley Gomez
Pic related is a mandatory introduction to privilege checking. It even includes a trans woman manifesto.
Dylan James
her definition of sexism is "the belief that maleness and masculinity are superior to femaleness and femininity". top sozzle
I disagree. Each society has their own definition of male and female gender roles, but they still have gender roles. I still see gender as binary, I just think that there should be some ability for people to switch from one side to the other, in a purely social context.
Parker Mitchell
1/10,000 people are transgender?
I think there are more than 2300 trannys in Australia mate.
Elijah Murphy
ah, yes, the "philosophy" of self congratulation. wow, I can't believe I passed this up before now
if only everyone lives in a separate universe where they're the coolest person according to their own value system, everything works out
how smart
Robert James
Anime is 100 years old
Henry Lee
I don't see it as any different to rites of passage in less complex societies that create rituals to deal with the process of becoming a crocodile or whatever. Humans changing their bodies to suit some perceived reality is as integral to the human condition as speaking.
Ian Ross
FUCK OFF WITH THIS SHIT FROM HERE ARGHHH FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF
Connor Price
And this is why we need to separate history and humanities in 2 different boards. Get the fuck out of here with that shit
Henry Bell
the problem might come in at the point where everyone is trying to force someone else to recognize them.
we have the right to ignore you, you know. oh, except now it's discrimination. great.
this MIGHT be related to why people used to execute gays
Caleb Gray
Why do you blame transsexuals for that and not the lawmakers in your country? Transsexuals are only a legally protected class in a few places in the world. If the majority of people in your country want that (meaning almost all of those people aren't actually trans themselves), then what can you do? it's the will of the people
Connor Clark
I dont think ignoring transgenders is what gets them upset. Not giving a fuck about what they do seems to be the best option for everyone.
Jose Clark
A and B are just definitions of what transgenderism is and seem almost identical, not much to talk about C is where things get interesting. Gender is just a concept used to define the common ways in which members of each sex conduct themselves and is therefore very much real in much the same way that things like morality and sexuality are real but intangible concepts that influence our everyday life. The attempted and failed destruction of gender is largely an attempt by social marxists to lash out at another pillar of our"oppressive" society. While there have always been people who identify as the opposite sex people seeking to destroy the differentiations between the two sexes and their roles in society is relatively new. Ironically this deconstructionist line of reasoning leads to a paradox if male and female genders are not real and have no fixed characteristics than why and how would one even identify as another gender all things being the same that is. >In this way of thinking, why can't a man assume the roles and expectations of a woman in their society? Most males by their nature are superior at male things and inferior at female things when one allows members of a society to act in non conforming ways it leads to a more inefficient society as well as destroys the cornerstone of societies traditional gender roles. for instance if im a man but i can become a woman then why should i have to fight in wars to protect my homeland on the other hand if im a woman but i can just as easily be a man why should i have children and raise a family. However even if It was possible to maintain traditional gender roles but allow some individuals to switch between them (doubtful) this would overall be a net negative for society as the top 1 percent of female soldiers are equal to the bottom 1 percent of male soldiers and men will never be capable of producing children. This is the reason why every succesful society has had gender roles and enforced them
Christopher Clark
Uhh transwoman here, I'm gonna offer my own two cents here A and B are more or less the same as far as I can tell. Different individuals have varying levels of dysphoria and some people interpret those feelings differently and at different ages. For some people it "clicks" right away, and for others; they may not understand until they're teenagers or adults.
C is certainly interesting but even then; people who fall under that category generally >cross dress and play with gender presentation but don't actually alter their bodies in any way, Or >alter their bodies to some extent, but don't completely "cross over to the other side" with regard to gender presentation all of the time. From what I've observed, People in the second group are usually members of A or B but don't desire to transition fully because of any number of reasons.
D is common in the Middle East it seems but those people aren't A, B, or C; they're trying to avoid being persecuted for their homosexuality and in reality have no gender issues. I have read that many homosexual males resent being forced to change in this manner, because they are simply gay men. I've also read accounts of this sort of forced transition occurring in 1980s South Africa
>Personally I feel as though transsexualism, just based on the evidence, is some kind of heredity / developmental defect rather than some kind of acquired mental illness. Yes, and the medical community agrees. The proper treatment for gender dysphoria is medical and social transition
Landon Morgan
You bring up some fair points. But the idea of switching gender in order to gain societal benefits, like man switching to woman in order to not have to fight in times of war, I see this as unrealistic. You are not truly switching from man to woman, you are switching from man to transwoman. You are gaining far more negatives than you are positives, which I think is why so few people actually go through with it. Conversely, there are actually thousands of female to male transsexuals, like FtM pic related, who take male hormones (steroids), no longer have periods etc. Couldn't they fight instead? As far as women switching to male roles to not have children etc, plenty of women already don't have children who are completely comfortable as their gender. There are also thousands of orphaned children that grow up without parents, there's no lack of kids.
Anecdotal, but I have never actually seen a transgender person in my entire life and I live in a metropolitan city. It's an extremely rare phenomenon that is magnified by the internet.
>However even if It was possible to maintain traditional gender roles but allow some individuals to switch between them (doubtful) This is already possible almost everywhere. A transgender person who convincingly passes as the opposite sex already gets away with this, they only run into problems with legal issues such as name change, passport etc. If people around you identify you as a gender, that's essentially what you are to society.
Anthony Moore
Humans can't be other species though. Gender is determined in the womb. Same reason one can't "change races"; when you were conceived and in your mothers womb; you had whatever ethnic characteristics and genetics you currently posses and will always posess( social norms and imposed racial politics excluded from this obviously).
You gender is determined after conception and everyone begins as female. So the fetus receiving the influx of testosterone to be male is completely conditional obviously.
Dominic Green
>Anecdotal, but I have never actually seen a transgender person in my entire life and I live in a metropolitan city. If a transperson is passing as their target gender, you're not going to notice or acknowledge that, since obviously you wouldn't know.
Ryder Cox
Transgenderism is meant to pave the way for genetic engineering and robotic augmentation by getting the population accustomed to losing the concept of natural born identity.
Then they'll breed people who are designed solely for farmwork and slavery, who lack parts of the brain which allow them to rebel and become anything more than slaves.
Dominic Jones
Wouldn't it be easier just to use robots as slaves instead
Xavier Jackson
>former german pole-vaulter are they trans-national too?
Jack Murphy
Who is going to maintain the robots? Humans can serve many more functions than a robot can. Robots can malfunction and that requires multitasking on a huge level, creating an industry which allows people to take advantage of the fact. Imagine if robots get stolen and programmed to kill the elites, surrounding yourself with robots is dangerous. Surrounding yourself with human-animal hybrids who are designed for slavery is much safer.
Carter Edwards
Maintenance robots.
>imagine if robots get stolen and programmed to kill the elites Why couldn't that happen to robotic slave humans?
Jaxson Harris
Of course.
Jackson Harris
>Maintenance robots. You would need robots fixing robots who fix robots. At some point there would have to be humans involved in the servicing of the robots and that knowledge is dangerous when there is an entire industry for it. I don't doubt that robots will be in use in the future but their purpose will be overshadowed by the ultimate plan for humanity which is to make us slaves. >Why couldn't that happen to robotic slave humans? It's less likely if a person was created to be docile and subservient, lacking parts of the brain for aggression. Even moreso if said humans were wearing a collar which allows a person with a remote control to kill them by releasing a deadly fast acting poison into their bloodstream.
The idea is phasing out the current way of life. Celebrities will be getting genetic engineering and augmentations first, bragging on the media how they are finally demi-sexual-non-binary-wolf-kin with neural implants allowing access to the internet in their minds. People will be saving up all their lives to get access to this technology and they will willingly transform their bodies and sign away their rights as being natural humans.
Dominic Cox
Machines are better at doing any form of labor than humans because they are completely logical and have no reptile brain distractions that humans possess so robots would never ever need humans to maintain them.
Aaron Torres
>It's less likely if a person was created to be docile and subservient, lacking parts of the brain for aggression. My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain? Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"
Andrew Flores
>they are completely logical A robots logic is based on a humans. A simple reprogramming and they will do anything you want. That is too dangerous for the elites. A robot can physically maintain another robot but that robot can't read its data and make sure there is no hidden subroutines. To do so requires a human due to the ever changing nature of programming and robotics there are never ending different means to program a robot for another agenda. Humans can see this, they look at the data and say "hmm that shouldn't be there" and make the corrections themselves. 90% of the human species acts like genetically engineered workers anyway.
Xavier Anderson
>transsexualism is hereditary More like shitty parenting and self-loathing directed at ones gender as a form of trying to "fit". Ever notice the teenagers that think they failed as men that just up and decide they must be girls?
Owen Richardson
>the idea of switching gender in order to gain societal benefits, like man switching to woman in order to not have to fight in times of war sorry if I implied I thought this would actually occur what I meant was that just the idea that a man could not go to war by identifying as a woman would erode the notion that a man ought to go to war. As far as ftm men fighting they would still biologically be inferior to almost all physically fit men, for instance female bodybuilders have on average grip strength and weightlifting capabilities on par with the average man >plenty of women already don't have children who are completely comfortable as their gender. This is the problem women forgoing their natural duty to have children because traditional roles are fading >there's no lack of kids. Actually there are in almost all western nations birthrates at subreplacement levels hence the need for immigation, however this is a stop gap solution because as the immigrants integrate they lose the traditional values which made them fruitful to begin with necessitating more immigrants over time with the obvious effect of displacing the original inhabitants >This is already possible almost everywhere. I would argue that it is not possible to escape the negative consequences of widespread modernist transgenderism on society even though there are plenty of people capable of passing. the knowledge that behind the scenes this is occuring is still there and the passive acceptance of society reinforces an atmosphere in which gender is irrelevant leading to disregard for traditional gender roles. This is truly the crux of the problem not that transgender people exist but the way in which certain pernicious cliques of the greater body politic have used their illness in furthering destructive principles i.e. gender as a social construct not a biological one. >TLDR I am not so much against transgenders as I am the negative effects that believing gender is a mutable thing creates
Landon Thompson
Transgenderism is boring really. A man transitions and acts and dresses like a very stereotypical women and vice-versa. Surgery seems to have a high rate of satisfaction so let them have it.
