I've always been fascinated by Carthage and their wars against the Romans.
Was their end the most tragic way a people ever disappeared? Or is it in some sense more memorable than other people's who just got assimilated and lost their culture like thracians and gauls, and even greeks too.
inb4 child sacrifice
yeah who cares, it's kind of cool actually
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Apparently only Sicilians, Sardinians and North Africans sacrificed their children.
That distribution lmao
Afaik child sacrifice was an ancient tradition in many cultures. It was ancient even when Carthage was young
the absolute madmen
There is no shame in being conquered by Roma. Out of all people to lose to, being wiped by Roma carries least shame. Particularly when fighting against Scipio Africanus, one of the best commanders ever to have walked the earth. Moreover going out with a bang like Carthage did has some charm as well. I would say it is preferable to the endless conflicts and internal squabbles of the ERE only to be eventually squashed by roaches. Carthage had a great time and Hannibal showed they had some balls by crossing the Alps. Also thessalocracy invariably shapes attractive empires on maps. you can just imagine the trading ships docking from all those islands setting sail for its next port of call.
>Was their end the most tragic way a people ever disappeared?
What unique about the way they disappeared? Being dispersed after a very severe rekting is a very common thing in history.
>a very severe rekting
very very severe
Didn't Julius Caeser genocide a million Gauls during his campaign?
Brutality was just par for the course in those days.
Yeah he raped them out of existence this is why frenchies are so dark now
Taking that statement with a grain of salt.
>Carthaginians
>+30% transport ship speed
>+25% attack for Fire Galleys
>+25% HP for Elephant units, Hoplite, Phalanx and Centurion
Is this historically accurate?
That harbor is AESTHETIC as fuck. It looks almost futuristic.
If he actually genocided a million of them, Gaul would probably have been depopulated.
Nice meme
Fun fact, Samson and Hannibal had the same title
>In Hebrew and several other Semitic languages, shophet or shofet (plural shophtim or shofetim) literally means "Judge", from the verb "Š-P-T", "to pass judgment". Cognate titles exist in other Semitic cultures, notably Phoenicia.
>In the Hebrew Bible, the shoftim were chieftains who united various Israelite tribes in time of mutual danger to defeat foreign enemies. See Book of Judges for more details.
>In the various independent city states constituting Phoenicia proper (the coasts of present-day Lebanon and southern Syria) and the Punic colonies on the Mediterranean Sea, a shofet (in Punic, sufet or suffete) was a non-royal magistrate granted control over a city-state, sometimes functioning much in the same way as a Roman consul.
>The term is mostly widely known from the suffetes of Carthage, a former Phoenician colony. Following the overthrow of its monarchy in the fifth century BCE, Carthage was ruled by a number of aristocratic councils presided over by two suffetes, who served in a similar capacity to Roman consuls.
Jews were probably inspired by their more advanced neighbours the Phoenicians to call their leaders for judges.
en.wikipedia.org
When thinking about, one might wonder if the Romans copied the Carthaginians in their adoption of having two consuls elected each year.
The "imperium" given to consuls meant the right the judge, i.e. they were made judges.
Interestingly enough Sardinians mantained this tradition through the Roman periodo well Into the middle ages when the island was divided into 4 dinstricts each one by its own "judge"
Noice.
>The "imperium" given to consuls meant the right the judge
No, it's the right to give orders. "Imperare" means literally "to command".
It wasn't even the consul's job to judge anyone. Those were the praetors, and even that position was born as a military position, not a juridical one.
>If he actually genocided a million of them, Gaul would probably have been depopulated.
Well it kinda was, whole tribes were completely eliminated. Caesar then proceeded to implant there all his discharged veterans and many italian capite censi as colonists.
>Being dispersed after a very severe rekting is a very common thing in history.
Is it? Most of a foreign military conquests i can think off just ended up being overthrown a few hundreds of years later (or even sooner) or never really exterminated the culture unless the culture was very weak to begin with.
The only thing similar to reking of Carthage i can think of is conquest of Americas.
Celts, Etruscans, Elamites (By the Assyrians), most Levantine/Anatolian city states in the late bronze age..
Yes, I meant they COULD be judges, not that it literally meant that. Be judges where they had imperium. The Senate gave the consuls imperium in certain areas to wage war, and that included being the highest judicial official, namely judge. When the empire arrived, the imperator also became the ultimate end of appeals as the supreme court is today.
Theoretical question: what would have happened if Hasdrubal won at Metaurus?
tfw europe isn't as big as you thought it was so the conquests of every leader seem a bit less glorious.
I dont know much about the Punic wars, but it always seemed to me that Rome could recover from losing many battles and losing thousands of men, but for Carthage, losing a battle was much more catastrophic.
That makes me think the Punic wars werent really between comparable, even powers, and that Rome had a much larger population, far more manpower.
You're looking at it the wrong way user (probably on purpose). Holding the highest authority obviously means being able to overrule others including judges, but it's absolutely retarded to say the romans copied the cartaginians because they gave their leader the authority to lead.
>Was their end the most tragic way a people ever disappeared?
yes
>ITT people falling for the salt meme thinking the Carthaginian people disappeared
Nah, it was a cultural thing. One time than Carthago lost nearly all his Sacred Band (the Hoplite equivalent they had) vs the Sicilians killed any chance of it being used outside Africa. And then the same Sacred band, than was formed bet he upper class sons and was very well equiped, was rekt another time be the Sicilians, this time in Africa. After that they didn't field Carthaginians citizens as infanty unless if was to defend Carthago proper. They used allies (specially Lybians, Punics and metis between Punics, Lybians and Carhaginians, later Iberians too fought as allies) or Mercenaries to fight, with offices and a few units of Cavalry made be nobles like roman equites. Now compare it with Rome, than every time it was beaten it rised again with more men eager to enlist. The early Romans were something else to they late descendents, they would raise another army after another until another if it meaned to win.
Carthago is more like the USA, they were merchants and had some parts very militaristic, but the average joe and gov didn't have stomach for true war (like how America lost vietnam or the mess of Iraq).
>tfw the etruscans could've prevented this
Not really, no. Almost all of the Phoenicians living in Carthage died resisting the Roman invaders, I wouldn't really call that tragic but rather heroic.
New Qarth in Phoenician meant "Qart Hadasht"
Hadash in Hebrew also means new
They were bad at war, the romans said they lost a 80,000 men army against the Sardinians
And Romans lost the same amount to Hannibal only in Cannae. Then the Romans Raised ANOTHER army out of the dregs they had.
Thats the reason the Romans won the Punic wars and conquered in the first place. They can lose an 80,000 man army and Rome will be back for more. Rome just didnt except defeat in real conflicts and were willing to pay the price to win.
Accept***
>Carthage
>disappeared
Napoli and Carthage means the same thing.
Bump
If only someone would have done the same to Germany.
Drussus you dumbshit why did you have to fall off your horse. And fuck you Tiberius for cockblocking Germanics.
Kind of annoying that some of my friends repeat this as their favorite historical "fact" without reading any history. I never have the heart to tell them there's no real source for that, and that Carthage was repopulated a century later.
Didn't the Mongols destroy some nations so completely that we know nothing about them apart from some mentions in Chinese records? That's probably worse.
Why didnt Hannibal wreck Rome when he was in Italy?