/civ4xg/ - Strategy/4X General

>Needs better UI

There you have it. Are there any games that are as slick as Stellaris but don't have dumbed down mechanics?

I was browsing steam and found this new hot release, after the empire.

I'm shilling it in the hope someone buys it and tells if it's shit or not.

Looks like a millenual version of Endless Space.

But
>guild
>trade route
>pilgrimage
That's new. Early Access?

Ah - one of those "Have your cake and eat it, too" fellows, eh?
Yeah, we'd like one of those, too.
However, atm, all you've got is unplayable eye-candy & replayable 8-bit theatre: take your pick.
IMHO, one game can't do both - and I dare any studio to prove me otherwise.

No.

store.steampowered.com/app/493220

it's only 7 currencies too.

>name me one game that is flawless or has no arbitrary flaws that made the game not ideal for me

Really nigguh, really ?
Aurora and DW trump Stellaris anyday, improved UI or not.

Really dig that artstyle.

Aurora and Distant worlds are GSG not 4x.

I tried lookin at the Steam reviews :
> First impressions after first game played:
>I haven't seen anything like this. I am confused about the amount of detail there is and what you can't see (at least I can't). I have a lot to learn before I can beat this game. And this is in a good way. I'm interested not bored.
Now I know what I stopped caring about Steam reviews.

Hence why I posted it here.

Wtf are you smoking?
4X = 4X
GSG is clean XXX.

Stop falling for that bait.

>mfw there is a pirate version on PB

Thank you based jesus.

just hoist the black flag matey, new releases usually get some attention whether they're shit or not so it should be available

>I'm starting to find it easier to change, remove and add features with After the Empire. Very little in it feels like it's an untouchable keystone, like so much did in The Viceroy. But the odd thing is, with all that feeling of freedom in design even at this late date, After the Empire is much closer to its original concept (and its original version!) than The Viceroy is to its original idea. The mechanics and features feel more like tools to reach the concept and the fun, not the point in of themselves. I hope this new perspective helps me to continue to move the mechanics and systems of The Viceroy closer to its concept and purpose, which is, in the end, to give people a series of meaningful choices.

I can almost guarantee it's good just from that snippet.

That looks too austic for me.
>you can get excommunicated
>blockaded
>got an embargo against you
>enlightenement and authority rating

Can't. Stop. Raeg. From. Breaking. Thru.

Your anger makes me stronger.

I know - and It. Just. Makes. Me. Even. More. Angry.

Srsly, tho - why are all gsg games such shit?

Because they focus on details and ignore what really requires fixing.
EU4 has some really nice factions mechanism where you have to not rely on your people so much, but the combat is still "BIGGER STACK BETTER" and the mana system is too simplistic compared to the rest.

Not that I mind the mana being simple, but I find it strange how I use the same ressources to research technology, attack natives, and develop provinces, while, on the other side, I have to compose with the cossacks getting agitated before I asked them too many favours.

>Srsly, tho - why are all gsg games such shit?
They aren't, not really. They just each aim for a niche and try to fill it. If none of those niches are to your taste youw won't like any of them. Stellaris is example at how paradox tried to avoide a niche and go mainstream and failed utterly. DW is an example of /gsg/ that's not focusing on a niche done right.

they really, really are

paradox has no sense of design, that's why all their games are total garbage regardless of what genre they go for

But DW could learn a bit from Paradox. Say what about you want about Paradox, at least if something doesn't work, you usually know why. In DW, if something doesn't work, well, you grow a moustache, put your overalls, and start doing some plumbing.

DW is not grand strategy

>they really, really are
Opinions are like assholes indeed.

Do you mean bugs or inadequate feedback? To me both are more annoying and omnipresent in paradox games. Granted. by the time I got interested in DW, Universe was out, so I might have missed on the shitstorm if there was one.

>They aren't, not really.

Srsly:
EU is just an overgrown Risk
CK is an Incest simulator
Liquoria is ... well, name says all.
HoI is just overgrown Axis & Allies.

The main name of the game is Blobbing.
And - what's worse - it's not even fun Blobbing.

>DW is an example of /gsg/ that's not focusing on a niche done right.

And, again, DW is not XXX like gsg - it's a proper 4X.

it's time to go back to libbit, friend

>Srsly:
But that's the point isn't it? If you don't enjoy those particular niches and hate blobbing ofcourse you are gonna hate those games.

>And, again, DW is not XXX like gsg - it's a proper 4X.
Between this and that other lunatic it looks like /civ4xg/ is doing too much fighting monsters. Seriously, purity tests? Not real 4x, real 4x, gsg not gsg, Don't you see how silly that argument is? Yeah, everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes each and which is better, but come the fuck on, it's not a point you can ever prove one way or the other, why the fuck do people obsess over it so much.

>game is poorly designed and doesn't do what it's supposed to do
>I-it's just n-niche

nice damage control wiz

>doesn't do what it's supposed to do
That remains to be proven, tho. EU4 is vary straight forward about the fact that it's overgrown risk, and a lot of people enjoy it, otherwise paradox would be bankrupt. Similar with all those other games, just because you want the game to be more than what it is and/or have a different focus/organisation/structure, doesn't mean there aren't people who enjoy them.

Just to clarify, I don't play paradox games anymore, even those that I do enjoy on their merits, I've grown bored of, and their two latest releases are unforgivable shite in my book. But there are clearly enough folks who still buy all that dlc and folks who aren't bored of paradox's conventions.

Trying to push the narrative that all paradox games ever are shit on the other hand seems ludicruous to me simply because if they were so unilateraly bad, no one would give enough of a fuck to talk about them in the first place.

>Seriously, purity tests?

Yes.
And they're simple ones, too: Does it do the job or not?
I'm not talking about race purity, either:
If the game has Xplore, Xpand, Xploit & Xterminate elements - it's a 4X game.
If there's nothing to Xplore - it's a XXX (aka gsg) game.

And, tbqh I don't like gsg for the same reason I don't like Risk: it's too boring.
Now, if you'd tack on a proper battle system to any gsg, it'd be great - but currently, I don't see the appeal.

So, what about them is so appealing to you?

I mean the UI in general.
As much as I bitch about CKII or EU4, I can usually tell what's going on simply by reading the help.

With DW, I needed someone to explain me how resort stations really worked, and the "automated ship upgrade" just updates when new component are unlock, it didn't add hyperdrive engine to my civilians ships.

go back to kekkit

does ethics divergence guide pops in distant worlds specifically away from empire's ethics, or is it possible for deviants to randomly return to the official ethics?

top kek - now gtfo plebbitor

kys yourself

Awww - don't tell me: not even plebbit wants you.
Poor baby.
Here - have some cyanide.

I dunno, with CK2 and EU4 I had to read the wikis to figure a lot of parts out. And don't get me started on how much faggotry was involved in figuring out PU mechanics in EU4, which I was personally involved in.

On the other hand with DW I got everything I needed to know from the in game manual, only rarely having to resort to outside sources. It was intuitive for me, more or less.

Resort stations re an arcane bitch, yes, no argument there from me. Tho the game gives you basic ideas it's clearly inadequate info to utilise them fully. But upgrade system felt straight forward, maybe the order I resarched techs allowed it to bypass the issue you dealt with, or maybe I didn't pay enough attention to civies to notiece it, tho I could swear they did indeed use FTL, even managed to do so before I build first FTL scout in one of my earliest game.

That being said, DW UI is among it's weakest points to me. I don't think it's horrible and designed by aliens as, for example, Civ6's UI, but it was not at all a strong point and left much to be desired.

Unless they changed it, ED is random. Given that you have only 2-3 ethcs as a gov, you are much more likely to have it move away from gov than to gov, basic probability and all.

If you want to force it to move towards gov you have to make ED value into a negative number.

>Suck terribly at both endless legend and endless space games
Just what the hell am I even supposed to do? Im always overwhelmed by all the features and feel like unless I read a guide on what to build and research in early game I simply run out of resources and lose

I usually go for economy development choices in building and research and end up rekt by pirates and other empires because I've been neglecting the military.
That and I never got the combat system in ES

First, avoid endless space. As the joke goes one is an unfinished buggy mess that will never be fixed and the other is ES1.

Focus on EL, and pick ONE faction. Endless games are notorious for varying gameplay paradigms between factions, which is good, uless you are new at it.

Start with Wild Walkers or Vaulters. Former allows for quick expansion latter for rapid research. Both don't have mechanics that tiwst core 4x gameplay too too badly.

I prefer vaulters since they require less macro, which is good when you need to see what you are doing wrong.

What to do after that is hard to say w/o hearing more of what kinds of problems you are running into. The most generic piece of advice I can give you is watch a youtube vid of someone playing as your preferred faction, the second most generc one is worship production for it is the means by which you grow.

>cbg
Its been so long I don't know if I should

Expand more. The Endless series doesn't really do tall.

>If there's nothing to Xplore - it's a XXX (aka gsg) game.

That's the most retarded thing I've read in a while.

>That's the most retarded thing I've read in a while.

Wtf?
You mean we get a whole new (& different) map everytime we start a gsg game?
Man, I didn't even know!
Better try it out right now.

Oh wait - I just remembered: We don't.
So stfu & gtfo.

>I dunno, with CK2 and EU4 I had to read the wikis to figure a lot of parts out. And don't get me started on how much faggotry was involved in figuring out PU mechanics in EU4, which I was personally involved in.
Oh, right. I seem to have "forgotten" that point : the complete lack of tutorial in CKII and EU4.
Sure, the UI tells you why something can't work, but the explanation it gives you to begin with are limited.

As for the upgrade, maybe it's because I turned off automatons, but the UI still told me the upgrades were automated, so I never checked how the civilians ships were.
I dunno, each has its own flaws. Paradox requires you to learn by yourself but explain very well why, in that specific case, it doesn't work (except for that time where I couldn't buy my liberation because the game didn't told me my warden hated me), but Distant Worlds is better to explain the game as a whole.

But I love DW's musics.

>he doesn't know about the randomized new world
CASUAL

O rly?
Optional addon = entire game series, huh?

As I already said: stfu & gtfo.

I think EU4 should belong to us. /gsg/ doesn't want it and with the random map and custom empire features it's already more 4X than a lot of the stuff we talk about.

Stop chasing /gsg/ down the shit filled drain it now inhabits. If you want to discuss a paradox game here, just do it. That's what sane people do.

If noone's interested in discussion you will find out that quickly.

And there will always be lunatics that will screech you not to cause not PURE 4X!!! They are lunatics. They can be safely ignored and laughed at.

I'd rather not. Currently, /gsg/ and /civ4xg/ are pretending the others don't exist, it's fine.
If we start picking grand strategy games, /gsg/ will go full autist again and think we're stealing their games.
Let them in their cesspool.

>/gsg/ will go full autist again and think we're stealing their games
Oh no, what would we do. They would certainly take over and ruin the general!

Grow a spine.

what's stopping you from discussing whatever you want?

That was my point.The post I responded to argued against it.

well you don't have a right to demand that others talk about that shit with you.

Or more accurately you can demand all you want but that doesn't mean anyone will.

I won't keep you from talking about grand strategy games in this general. In fact, I did so myself several times.
I just don't want to have it in the OP, because I still remember the wanker spammer.

No where did I make any demands. Merely suggesting that just because /gsg/ exists its not a reason to do or not do anything as simple as mundane as discussing a game.

I get that, no one want's to deal with that shit and no one wants an intergeneral war, because ultimately it's a waste of everybody's time, but I stand by my point - if people feel like discussing it stopping them just to appease gsg is ludicrous.

So, what's interesting about EU4?

Neither of those games have MP

So well done you proved my point. Outdated as fuck.

I NEVER said we can't talk about grand games. Just that they shouldn't be the main focus of that thread. It's fine to bring them up to compare them to Stellaris or the others 4X.

The internal politic is way better than in Stellaris.

It's the best map painting game on the block, offering just enough complexity to keep it from being utterly brainless, just enough challenge to keep it from being a faceroll and just eneough fluff to keep it from becoming a chore.

Until you get tired of painting maps, than it becomes utterly tedious because no other part can carry the game.

Fun post. I wonder do you realise that every line in it applies to stelaris itself?
If you want a modern sci-fi 4x in space that is an overall good expirience I'd advice taking a look at Galciv2.

Any way to see the list of wars currently occuring in Stellaris?

dunno about list, but one of the political map overlays is helpful for that

I'd like to know if there's a way to see policies of other empires other than going to their worlds and checking out happiness factors of citizens. War declarations usually offer option to "end atrocities" but I seldom get to see what those actually are.

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708752579&searchtext=map modes

This has some policy map modes available.

It's only around 5 cuckbucks for me on steam so I bought it. It seems pretty cool, i can post a more autistic summation of it once i've played (and lost) more of it.

>5 cuckbucks

Wish someone would do a playthrough of Stellar Monarch, it looks interesting but the screenshots don't tell you much about it

Example screenshot.
£4.75

>Stellar Monarch
That steam trailer voice is absurdly amusing.

>religion
>in a science fiction game
Well that's new.

Looks like AI War, but...
WAIT A MINUTE, ARE THESE CIVILIZATIONS INSTEAD OF PLANETS? ARE THESE GALAXIES INSTEAD OF SOLAR SYSTEMS?

>GALAXIES INSTEAD OF SOLAR SYSTEMS
Nah, it appears someone got the memo on actual galaxy size and decided to use satrclusters (called territoriens ingame) as a basis for mapping instead of individual solar systems.

Which to me is no less amazing and far more believable.

>Try out Stellaris
>When I take over a planet, the inhabitants stay butt mad foreverly and I have to keep spending influence until I just become too big to maintain them anymore and rebellions break out
>Whenever I vassalize a nation, I don't really get any bigger or better so eventually the vassals get buttmad and I have to fight another rebellion
>The only way to actually expand is to first liberate a planet, then become its protectorate, then wait 50 years for it to become a vassal then integrate the vassal for an obscene influence cost

Does Utopia fix any of this?

>fix
sounds like standard paradox conquest mechanics to me desu

>being this bad

>not reeducating conquered nations

I have a question, I just got 1.4 and it says my core mod is outdated, but I started a new game and I can still make my sector +999, I assume it works fine anyway?

It may work while being outdated.
If this mod changes only one or two lines in one file you should be fine.

>having xenos in your empire
>having vassals
this is where you went wrong

Can I RP in Stellaris or is minmaxing traits too OP?

I can only occupy one type of world. So I need them if I want to expand or I just sit around for seven thousand years until I can gene map my race.

who /excited for making hamburgers out of filthy xeno next week/
here?

>Your question was whether or not the game's dead.

No. No it was not.

Wrong tab.

So there's something between a solar system and a galaxy?

Star cluster and/or constellation is probably as close as you are gonna get if you want generic.

I thought constellations were totally subjective, like "these stars look like a frying pan!"

heh

That might be the only fun thing I saw in Civ 6.

They mostly are. But they still require a decent amount of relative proximity to be relevant.

I'm not saying they are a good way to measure things, but there isn't a good way afaik. Star clusters are a bit more objective but suffer from much the same issues and aren't as cool, i.e no mystical meanings.

The logical way to split is Galaxy>System>Planet, but if you want to show scope or model an actual galaxy, you will quickly find out that it's essencialy a Sisyphean task to map it solar system for solar system.

It's one of the reasons some geeks have a hate boner for intergalactic travel in sci-fi - there is so much space in our backyard that going to other galaxy for most any reason is a ludicrous proposition.

Well, as far as space travel go, I mostly follow the popular trends that Spore used : planet