Can you guys explain cast wheels vs forged? I've noticed there is like 5 different types of each...

Can you guys explain cast wheels vs forged? I've noticed there is like 5 different types of each. What should I look for when it comes to durability for the road?

Cast wheels are made by pouring hot metal into a mold, forged wheels are made by hammering a piece of metal untill it's the desired shape. You also have billet wheels, which are made by milling a solid chunk of metal (a billet) down to the desired shape.

Now, casting means you won't have grain flow (pic related), which strengthens the material. Forged pieces have great grain flow, and billet pieces have an interrupted grain flow, because those billets already had grain flow hammered into them (the billets are made by forging), and it was interrupted because of the machining.

Now, you might say that forging is always the best because it has the best grain flow - it isn't. What matters more is the specific material, design, and quality control. Some materials can only be cast, some materials are way easier to mill, so to get to the desired shape, you might be able to cast a better material, and end up with a product that's better than a half-assed forging. Quality is obvious, but milling might be one of the best options, because you've got so much design freedom - which you can exploit to make a better product.

Finally, there's cost. Castings are cheap - but difficult to engineer, because flowing metal is a bitch to predict (although modern software is getting pretty good). After you've designing your mold, it's still relatively expensive to keep making new molds. Forging is extremely expensive, because you have to design the forging dies, and they're expensive to produce (although billet forging dies are getting cheaper and cheaper). Once you have a forge set up though, you can just hammer away, making it suitable for really long production runs. Lastly, you have billet - expensive, but since you don't have any setup costs it's cheaper (for short production runs) than designing a forging die or casting mold.

the most helpful thing I've read on Veeky Forums in like 3 months, thank you user.

Thoughts on forged barrel but cast spokes? Example tsw or forgestar?

I hit a curb with my motorcycle that had cast iron wheels.
They probably saved me life.

holy shit a legit answer on Veeky Forums

You're a good person user

Sounds like they barely alter the grain flow with their ''forging'', but I'll let it pass. It sounds like a good way to reduce rotational intertia.

What I don't like is the center casting. Most castings are usually a bit heavy, which means their design won't reduce unsprung weight as much as it could. Also, casting generally results in the most brittle products (compared to the other two options), which I personally don't like for the part of the wheels that has to endure that full side load.

However, a good review of their quality is more important than my own biased opinion.

Do you know where you are??? How did you get here?!

is that wheel made of styrofoam

Can't believe I haven't posted my rim pic yet, I still drive my car and the rim is cracked straight through on a long road trip I did two years ago, I haven't had any issues but finding this exact rim replacement is tough and I haven't fixed it yet

On the subject, is there ever a good reason to buy forged wheels for a road car, outside of supercars? Looking at cast OZs for a Forester, should be fine inside load ratings?

Forged barrel & cast spokes make up 99% of welded two piece and three piece wheels. I have welded two piece GT-P's that have a cast center and three piece RSK-5's with a cast center as well.

Is it good or bad though? I'm a cheap ass but I'm also scared of spokes breaking and destroying my car.

Same desu
Thicc car and shit twisty roads is a fun mix

It's cast pot-metal. That's why the odd color and grainy break. Same shit as they make die cast cars out of. Absolute shit tier properties.

What are you doing here, go be useful somewhere else.

Not bad at all, it's mostly just going to be a price difference unless you are doing track or off-road racing in which case it would also be safety/peace of mind. Most wheel companies use the same material for the center of the wheel which is usually just an alloy, or shit like magnesium, pic related.

My GT-P's are on my MR2 which I've taken up to 120mph multiple times and driven over countless potholes no problem and those wheels are 20+ years old. As long as it's a reputable company I wouldn't worry.

It's just some trash fakes from China because the car owner decided to cheap out.

Wow I learned something today.

Buy wheels of a legit brand from a legit store so you know you're getting genuine good wheels. If you do that you'll have wheels that can take pretty much anything you throw at them for 20 years plus.

Forged factory steelies are stronger than most of the aftermarket crap. Yes, some are lighter, but then you are relying on a questionable alloy, and getting financially fleeced.

what are some legit brands?
is konig any good?

König has pretty decent wheels, nothing wrong with the quality they have.

OZ, Enkei, Volk, Compmotive, BBS high end

Except for the finish.

All RAYS, Enkei and SSR wheels are also good

BBS/Ronal
SSR/Work
Volk Racing/Rays
O.Z.
Enkei
Gram Lights
Team Dynamics
Desmond/Regamaster
Konig
CCW
Carline/Dynatech
Sprint Hart
Advan
Borbet
ATS
Weds
Manaray
Schmidt
Sprinthart
HRE
Compomotive
TSW

those are some, lots more out there.

Maybe not, but at least that's not a problem that might ruin your car

>Work
Only stancefags buys Work wheels

That doesnt mean they dont make quality wheels though

Work wheels are so heavy your car will use a couple of seconds extra to reach 60 mph

(You)

>Enkei TS-10

Can't wait.

>pictured: 13 inch wheels

Either way, 23 pounds per wheel is heavier than stock.

flow cast is basically forged

We need more posters like you.

>we need people to post more grade 12 material science
yikes

Just don't run over pot holes and curbs and it won't matter what wheels you get...

i think the point was we need more helpful non trolls on this board

Is bassett a legitimate brand?

Thank you helpful user

>a helpful user on Veeky Forums
whoa

>This nigger

I like you

>durability

Steel.

this is what i come to Veeky Forums for, thanks user

Find me a 19x9.5 cast wheel that weighs less than 23lbs lmao

I'll add to this.

Forged v. Cast used to matter years ago.

Now, cast wheels are usually pressure casts which removes defects better like fissures and air pockets. Forged and billet wheels can still be better. Which may mean the difference between your wheel surviving hanging off of the track a bit in a 80mph bend, but keep in mind even OEM wheels are cast in most cases and perfectly fine for daily driving.

Here's a prime example:
Last month a guy ran me off the road and I Takumi-ed into a curb at 45mph. These are pressure cast OEM wheels made by Enkei. -NO- wheel could survive this. I'm surprised it held up as well as it did.

Replica vs genuine is where this argument comes up the most. Tbh the replicas are probably fine. Just is youre going to get a wheel, try to support the original artist.

The real argument is how much weight is really saved vs the forged factory steelie.

til forging is stronger than machining...

huh, always thought machining a solid block of something would be best but that makes sense.

Not much when you consider that you usually go much wider with aftermarket wheels.

Engineeranon from , thanks for all the positive replies.

Again, forging is only stronger because of grain flow. In an identical design optimised for both production types, with identical materials and QC, only then will forging be objectively superior most of the time. Sometimes, you might not even want grain flow (but that's rare).

You can theoretically design a better billet product because billet uses different materials and because billet places different design restrictions. A great casting is better than a halfassed billet or forged product.

>Forged v. Cast used to matter years ago.
Only for durability's sake, under consumer grade wear patterns. For the same level of durability, forging or billet can generally result in a lower mass, both unsprung and rotational, which is critical for racing applications. Cast wheels work fine, but other kinds of wheels can be superior in terms of squeezing out that last drop of performance.

>Tbh the replicas are probably fine.
In a lot of cases, they sadly aren't. At the design table for a replica wheel, you've already determined the shape, and you can't deviate from it - it's a hard design goal. That means, as an engineer, you're completely limited in terms of design and construction. Any design decision after that is just a compromise to meet that one design goal.

After that, you have to make sure your replica is cheaper - and that usually involves using production methods and QC with lower standards.

Sure, a replica will usually stand up to consumer-grade abuse, but it won't be as light or durable as the real deal.

I was assuming the replica would be used as a daily driver application. Certainly not racing lol.

>is there ever a good reason to buy forged wheels for a road car, outside of supercars?
Yes. There are two divisions to be made in weight/inertia for vehicles:
>unsprung vs. sprung weight
>rotational vs. linear inertia
Unsprung weight means that the weight of the wheels is not sprung - it isn't controlled by the car's suspension system (springs, that's where the term comes from). Unsprung weight is bad, because that lack of control of your wheels means a (degree of) lack of control over your vehicle. For example, a solid rear axle is usually lighter than an independent setup, because the suspension setup for the solid axle is much, much simpler (=less sprung weight). However (besides camber curves and such), the solid axle is mostly unsprung weight. Conventional independent suspension consists of less unsprung weight, and a lot more sprung weight, and it's generally considered to be better. Point being: you want to reduce unsprung weight, at every cost. Even sprung weight.
Next there's rotational vs. linear (?) inertia. A car has inertia - everything does. More specifically, it has a linear inertia: when it's standing still, it doesn't want to accelerate, and when it's cruising at speed, it doesn't want to decelerate. Now, wheels also have what's called rotational inertia. Their weight doesn't want to get moving, but that weight also has an arm (the radius of the wheel). This makes wheel weight even more important, especially at the rim of the wheel, because the arm is longest there - it creates the most rotational inertia. There isn't a tradeoff between rotational or linear inertia - you simply want to reduce both as much as you can.

Is it worth it to buy forged wheels for a road car? Yes. Less rotational inertia means faster acceleration, better braking, andless unsprung weight means better turnin and usually higher corner speeds.

>Looking at cast OZs for a Forester, should be fine inside load ratings?
They'll be fine. They just won't be the best - and that's fine, if you're on a budget. Everybody is.

>Forged factory steelies are stronger than most of the aftermarket crap.
They always are, but they're not exactly light. Quite the opposite, usually. Some people really prefer an expensive wheel with less unsprung weight and rotational inertia over a cheap and heavy steelie.

>but then you are relying on a questionable alloy
Alloys aren't questionable. Companies that don't use the proper alloys are. As long as you know what the material is, you be able to decide whether or not it's good for a specific purpose, and then you should always check consumer reviews and such to determine if their quality control and design work is up to snuff. Getting financially fleeced (or not) is up to you as a consumer.

Yes.

Never, ever, assume how a client will use your product. It usually ends up with broken or faulty product, and an unhappy customer. Make sure everything is idiotensicher.

Then throw 4wd off road vehicles for rockcrawling and hill climbing more unsprung weight is actually a good thing. Basically more unsprung weight helps keep the vehicle from rolling over in off camber situations as well as helps the tires grip the irregular surfaces faced in off road scenarios.

This mainly applies to solid axle 4wds

*throw in

>Basically more unsprung weight helps keep the vehicle from rolling over in off camber situations
No, a lower CoG keeps vehicles from rolling over in off camber situations, not unsprung weight. The coincident here is that the weight of the axles will usually lower the effective CoG of the entire vehicle, since they are well below the CoG of the body (and frame) of a lifted 4x4. Basically, two indentical vehicles will roll at the eaxct same time if they have identical CoG's, no matter any difference in sprung weight.

>as well as helps the tires grip the irregular surfaces faced in off road scenarios.
Not really, since the force exerted on the tires of any set of vehicles with identical weight, no matter the ratio of sprung vs unsprung weight. Actually, independent suspension would have better camber control and thus more grip.

However, all of this doesn't matter. What you want in offroading is big, beefy axles that don't break: solid ones.

See the center of gravity is always lower with the vehicle that has more unsprung weight since it is the lowest part(s) of the vehicle. Comparing two vehicles with the same overall weight. You can't have two vehicles with the same COG and weight the same without having very similar unsprung weight. This is all dependant on a stock style vehicle, custom buggies are different thing all together since you can lay them out however you like. Also you can only make the vehicle so low to keep the center of gravity down until you interfere with upward wheel travel. It's all a compromise but adding unsprung weight is easy. That's why many buggies will add water to their tires since they have only so much weight down low the only way to make them anymore stable is add unsprung weight to keep the wheels on the ground.

Any weight that isn't unsprung on a solid axle 4wd truck or SUV is gonna be well above and not help with the COG.

Also in hill climbs or weird angles were the sprung weight is transferred off one or more of the tires the unsprung weight, like heavy tires and axles will help keep the tire in contact with the ground by pulling against the spring enough to give forward momentum.