How can Ford even compete?

Why didn't they use the zl1 1le?
GM said it was something like 4 seconds faster around VIR.

If those times were by Randy Pobst I'm disregarding them

finally this picture has different colouuurs

Needing a full race suspension and carbon fiber rims just to lose to a base ZL1.
All for the same price.

Better question is, why isn't the gt350r faster for that huge price tag?

ZL1 1LE is barely out. they just started delivering regular ZL1s let alone having enough 1LEs to go around for journalist testing.

holy shit

Oh my FUCKING GORN!

Can we write motor trend and tell them to stop making these images?

>I'm surprised no one as started shit posting about who ripped off who with 427's and 302's yet between Chebby and Ferd.
The 427's are simple: Nascar demanded a 429ci (~7.0L) limit, and so everybody came up with a big block with a ~3 3/4'' stroke and a ~4 1/4'' bore. The Mopar Hemi 426 was exactly 4.25x3.75, the Chevy was .010'' over that in it's stroke, and Ford decided to get wierd with 4.2328''x3.784''. This smaller bore was because the FE block simply didn't have enough material left to go any bigger. The slightest core shift during casting would mean a no-go after boring it that big, although it was a good racing engine. They later built a 3.985''x4.135'' 428ci FE, but that had too long of a stroke, which meant it's piston speed was too extreme for a long NASCAR race. In 1969, they introduced their new 429: 4.360''x3.59''. Note the comparitively short stroke and big bore.

Then you have the 302: the basic result of 3x4 (3'' stroke, 4'' bore). 3'' is so short, it takes about 9800RPM to even reach the industry standard maximum for street engine piston speed, or about 25m/s.
First off, you had Trans Am, where engine displacement was limited to 5.0L, or 305ci. Ford and GM both designed a 4x3 302 based on their existing architecture, and then you suddenly had 8000RPM smallblocks in cars that could actually turn. Mopar had to be a bit special and destroked their 340 (4.04'' bore) to a 304ci engine. Again, most competitors aimed for a similar bore:stroke ratio. You also had Formula 5000, which was dominated by aluminium, fuel injected Chevy small blocks, pumping out 500hp at about 8000RPM. Also, Nascar moved to the 305ci limit for a couple years in the early 70's, and then moved back to big blocks, but with restrictor plates.

By now, both Trans Am and Nascar have a 358ci limit, and Formula 500 might be starting up again. Imagine second-rate F1 chassis, but with a 3rd gen Hemi, LS or Coyote.

tl;dr: 427/8/9 and 302ci engines came about because of A. standard imperial sizes and B. racing regulations

Why?

>Formula 500 might be starting up again. Imagine second-rate F1 chassis, but with a 3rd gen Hemi, LS or Coyote.
Diamonds.

Ok user but you have to use Motor Trend On Demand™ first :^)

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Holy shit Carlos just leave MT and rejoined Edmunds again

lol isn't the Camaro platform like 7 years old?

no

It's 1 year old

The last gen looks similar but is an understeering dog that is 200lbs heavier

The Camaro's Alpha platform has been in production since july 2012, so almost 5 years.

The S550 Mustang has been in production since july 2014, making it exactly two years younger.

>Why?
Cause he's shit

>8.2k
>high

I love that this arms race has made both the Mustang and Camaro just as nice and twice as fast anything Europe or Japan has put out. GM really nailed it with the new Camaro so I hope it forces Ford to make the next Mustang a godmachine and bring the next generation early.

FORDKEKS ABSOLUTELY BTFO
How can they ever recover?
FACT: pushrods continue to push gods
>inb4 ford comes back and fixes their camber
lmao

This. The real winner is America.

Meanwhile Dodge just keeps throwing POWER at the Challenger.

Not ripping on it, I find it charming how they do that with the thing.

I don't know, how can it compete at all?

kek

That's an embarassingly low quality shoop.

t. creator of pic related

I work with what I've got

Pic related may be ass, but better than good ol' Paint.
Functional enough for shitposts.

ZL1 competitor would be GT500.
ZL1 1LT (prev gen Z/28 was faster than prev gen ZL1) is GT350R competitor.
Ford BTFO
Also new Ford GT is slower than Mclaren 720S.

attempt #2

>Ford needed a brand new engine, track ready suspension and carbon fiber galore to beat an older model chevrolet with a 10 year old engine.

And you can go even further back. Again, and again, and again.

I can just picture it happening at their engineering department.

>2009
>Chevy starts building a brand new Camaro
Meanwhile at Dodge:
>''Guys, do we still have some old E-class parts laying around?''
>''Yes?''
>''Throw an iron block pushrod V8 in it, we're making muscle cars again.''

>2010
>Mustang and Camaro are now making 420/426hp
Meanwhile at Dodge:
>''Hold my beer, we're making a 392 again''

>2015
>Ford releases the S550 Mustang
Meanwhile at Dodge:
>''Guys, the Challenger needs 700hp. End of discussion.''
>''Yes, but what about the Charger? Gotta take my kids to school in a rolling burnout.''

>2016
>GM releases the Alpha Camaro
>Ford releases the GT350
Meanwhile at Dodge:
''Let's make pigs fly. Also, needs more power''

>2022
>Ford releases a brand new twinturbo V6 Mustang GT350, slay track records everywhere
>Chevy break into Nurburgring 7's with their new Z/28 - powered by their updated LT7 engine
Meanwhile at Dodge
>''What do you mean, we can't put a bigger supercharger on it? HERESY!''

Much better.

>>''What do you mean, we can't put a bigger supercharger on it? HERESY!''
Fuck it, we're putting TWO SUPERCHARGERS on. One for each bank.

dodge did have everything though. A sedan sports car, a straight line machine, and a track god. Just watch the Viper make a comeback in ~5 years

Forgot to add picture of said pig.

Aston already did that though.

>''What do you mean it's already been done?''
>''Fine, but I'm adding another turbo''

>A sedan sports car
What?

Supercharge the speedo. Then the needle climbs faster. Faster needle, more speed.

Charger

I really want to see some 426 or 440 revival monstrosity, preferably with TWIN TWINCHARGED setup or something.
They're mad enough to pull something like that.

I have a gut feeling the entire SRT department is just a bunch of cleverly disguised Orks.

The Charger isn't a sports sedan. The Charger is a comfy barge that can be fast in a straight line with the right engine, but in no way is it sporty, or a sport sedan.

They've got the building blocks for an aluminium 426, so I'd love to see this as the lineup for the 4th gen Hemi:
>5.7 base engine (cam-in-cam VVT, DOD)
>426 SRT8/Scat Pack (aluminium block)
>392 Hellcat (twinturbo, aluminium block)
>426 Demon (twinturbo, first muscle car with four digit horsepower)

>2009
>Chevy starts building a brand new Camaro
Meanwhile at Dodge:
>''Guys, do we still have some old E-class parts laying around?''
>''Yes?''
>''Throw an iron block pushrod V8 in it, we're making muscle cars again.''

Except you're completely ignoring the fact the Challenger came out in 2008.

Can we please ignore that for the sake of the storyline here?

It probably went more along the lines of
>2005
>retro-styled Mustang comes out and is a massive hit
Chevy:
>"Shit, ponycars are cool again? We need a new Camaro, stat! Get the Aussies!"
Meanwhile at Dodge:
>"That new Mustang is trying to cash in on nostalgia and doing pretty great. We got some old E-class part laying around, right?"
>"Uh, yeah, why?"
>"Dump a big pushrod iron block V8 in it, we're gonna show them how we did things back in the day."

>The Charger is a comfy barge that can be fast in a straight line with the right engine, but in no way is it sporty, or a sport sedan.

The SRT8 is. The regular R/T is the comfy barge that is fast, the SRT8 has a much stiffer suspension, bigger brakes, bolstered sport seats to hold you in place, bigger wheels and tires with shorter sidewalls for handling over ride.

>b-b-but it's heavy
So are ///Ms, AMGs and S-lines.

...

>The regular R/T is the comfy barge that is fast
The 5.7 is slow.

>So are ///Ms, AMGs
M3, C63, Giulia QV etc. are all under 4000lbs and can be considered sport sedans.
M5, E63, CTS-V and all such other pigfat sedans, like the Charger, are not sport sedans.

>///M
>implying small sidewalls are good for handling
>implying S-line isn't an appearance package, but a performance package that can compete with M, V, F or AMG
Found the newfag.

>///M

Don't do this.

whoops

and just like that, the GTR vs Z06 era was over. A new era of competition had begun

gimp is pretty fun desu

The challenger isn't a race car tho so all your asinine points are moot.
It's almost as if dodge wants to make a comfy/cruiser muscle car to its roots?? Crazy

made it better

this post triggered gm fangirls

I'm kind of new to /pol/, can someone explain this meme to me please?

*Veeky Forums, not sure why I said /pol/

It's simple. You pick one side and attempt to shitpost the other side into oblivion, preferably derailing every thread you can into your shitpost war.

It has 124hp more with its fancy fast transmission and only manages .39 seconds faster embarrassing

yea, right. go back
>gm actually gave up using N/A engines because they couldn't outperform the 5.2l v8
lmao
nope the ford gt is still faster

>choosing only one side

Per post obviously, ya dingus.

You are, literally, the cancer that is ruining Veeky Forums.

cry more

>The 5.7 is slow.
Compared to other full size sedans from the era it's not, hell in 2006 Ford and Chevys full size offerings were the 500 and Impala with that POS boat anchor OHV V6.

>M3, C63, Giulia QV etc. are all under 4000lbs and can be considered sport sedans.
None of those are full size sport sedans.

>M5, E63, CTS-V and all such other pigfat sedans, like the Charger, are not sport sedans.
Yes, these are all full size sport sedans.

>>///M
Why are you so triggered by nomenclature?
>implying small sidewalls are good for handling
Are you implying less sidewall doesn't contribute to less flex, less sidewall scrubbing and a more direct feeling? Must be why all sports cars you see have fat sidewalls, or are you just pretending to be retarded?
>implying S-line isn't an appearance package, but a performance package that can compete with M, V, F or AMG
Cars like the S3, S4, S6 and so forth are definitely capable of competing with the likes of the cars you listed, apparently you weren't pretending to be retarded.

Are feelings more important than facts?

>tfw the current LX cars are still on the old '90s E-class chassis

...

So assblasted he can't even use his cancerous trip anymore, thanks for the laugh

>Compared to other full size sedans from the era it's not
It's still in production, compared to modern stuff it's slow.

>Yes, these are all full size sport sedans.

>full size & pigfat
>sport
Pick one, one, and only one.

>Why are you so triggered by nomenclature?
Because your nomenclature is wrong, and you should feel wrong. Not even BMW uses your retarded ///M, it's simply called M.
>Are you implying less sidewall doesn't contribute to less flex, less sidewall scrubbing and a more direct feeling?
No, I''m not implying, I am hereby directly stating that the unsprung weight and rotational inertia added by ridiculously large wheels are detrimental to performance, and moreso than a bit of sidewall flex.
>Must be why all sports cars you see have fat sidewalls
Most street sportscars have small sidewalls because they have large wheels, not because of performance. They have large wheels nowadays because crash regulations force higher and higher beltlines, and you need a bigger wheel to compensate for that visually. Manufacturers have cleverly sold this as a way to combat sidewall flex. What they're not telling you is that it massively increases tire weight (meanign higher unsprung weight and rotational inertia), even using modern alloy wheels.
Now, go look at real racecars. Formula 1 for example. They tried going to 18'' wheels because that would be ''more relatable to road cars''. Guess what, every single manufacturer protested, and they stayed with their 13'' wheels and fat sidewalls.

>Cars like the S3, S4, S6
First off, the S3 is a rebadged Golf. Second, none of those cars are S-line. S-line is a branding exercise that Audi has done to make you look like you drive an actual S or RS product. It's literally just an appearance package, pic related.

Hope im not too late. Some more Mustang ass blasting

WTF I hate Ford now...

>need over 200 more TRQ and over 100 more HP for only 0.39 seconds

Nah both are great. The only loser is Europe.

See >need 100 more hp and 116 more tq to go 1.2 seconds slower

>implying dodge would go from blowers to snails
Heresy I say

The thing is, the 350r is the all out race model.
It's deisnged To be a street legal race car.

The base zl1 is designed to be a comfortable daily driver for baby boomers.

Even with carbon brakes and rims, it still lost despite being the same price.

>the 350R is an all out race car

People keep saying this like it's the Mustang GT3 RS, but removing the rear seats does not make it a "race car." It still has infotainment with navigation, air conditioning, and the magnetic shocks are comfortable on rough streets. Any reviewer says it's perfectly fine to drive on the street. You CAN order it without the tech package, but that isn't how Motortrend has it equipped.

>350r is the all out race model.
no, it's the pseudo-race car. just like the raptor is a pseudo offroad vehicle

That doesn't make it a good daily driver.
The viper ACR or z28 could be driven daily, but they are shit for that purpose.

This 350r is designed to be a all out track car
The zl1 was intended to be a good daily for old people.(hence the automatic option)

It has the same size trunk of a Mustang GT. Is that a bad daily?

I'd rather drive the R over the ZL1 in urban areas just because you can see out of it better.

>it has the same size trunk
gm fangirls actually believe this

>last gen vs new gen
the 350r is the base model. the gt500 is the performance model. sperg more

ZL1 ----- GT500
1LE ----- GT w/ Track Pack
Z/28 ----- GT350 (R)

Comparing these any other way is stupid.

reminder that the 2013 gt500 beat the 2013 zl1 at Laguna seca. gm fangirls actually on. suicide watch

Alphonse gtfo out, stay banned faggot.

S550 is the current gen, wtf do you mean older model? Same 5.0 in the 2017 nothing changed.

Stop shitposting you are just looking desperate at this point. Ferd will never recover

Since there won't be a Z/28 for this gen, it's more like

>ZL1 - GT500
>ZL1 1LE - GT350R
>1LE - Track pack

>literally begging me to stop
the 2018 is the new gen. sperg more.
>ford will never recover
see
btfo
>gm such shit they can't compete in N/a races
lmao