/sdg/ - Steel Division General

Also the planes look like they are always at roughly 30m of altitude

>mfw you can fly a plane across the width of the 10v10 map at phase C and it won't get shot down
How the fuck was this not caught in early testing?

Wargame Planes
>Make sure no hecking SPAAGs lurk in the back
>Make sure you have a target that justifies sending in an actual plane
>Make sure you can support the plane
>Send in SEAD and hope the enemy is too stupid to turn off radars
>Send in ATGM plane for that ONE shot at the enemy Superheavy
>ATGM misses
>Single North Korean infantry shoots plane down with lucky MANPAD shot

Steel Division
>Buy Ju88's
>Brave Hanz flies in
>Bounces off AA rounds back into the AA guns, killing the crews
>Flies at treetop level in 2 engine bomber to show off his Aryan courage
>Eats Flak for breakfast
>youtube.com/watch?v=1teoC2aMVtY
>Carpet bomb half the map

>matchmaking
>mods
>proper campaign
but
>ww2
>no vehicle HP (wtf?!)
>can't heal infantry
>noob-friendly simplifications that are just hidden stats

fucking eugene

this. just play it now, refund in a month

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Germans get a firefly in phase A
HOW IS THIS FUCKING BALANCED

>nothing but wehraboos taking the firefly deck
>cant even play Germany because everybody switches to Germany because MUH WEHRMACHT
>Germans have unkillable without AT guns panthers
>Germans have a 17 AP ALLIED TANK at the start of the fuycking game that has more armor than anything besides Infantry can pen

Why do people join team games than proceed to not help team mates or get mad when helped? Just stay in 1v1

>getting wrecked by Phase A German captured firefly because for some reason that was a good idea
>teammate is pushing ahead to my right
>he has perfect chance to flank it
>tell him to flank
>he tells me to deal with my own problems
>Late Phase B
>finally killed Firefly after losing most of my units
>Proceed to push and pass my dick teammate from earlier
>start encircling his enemies
>HEY FUCK OFF THIS IS MY FRONT

Also I have literally never seen Germans lose

Navigating hedgerows with vehicles is a fucking chore.

The unit diversity is what kills this game for me. In Wargame I can select a dozen different units for eveyr category; some are bound to be worthless but hey.

Meanwhile in this you basically end up making the same "deck" every time, with maybe the exception of a slightly different variant of a Tier B tank.

I'm pretty sure that they went for 'divsions' instead of nations so they could be lazy cunts and not have to design entire nations; they will i
nstead release units piece by piece as DLC.

As someone who has had his games ruined by paradox once before I am scared as to how they will ruin this. And I know they are only publishers, but they will still have shitty influence over Eugen.

More like this way they can balance the damn game. The kind of decks that you have to play if you tried to play ALB or RD remotely seriously were fucking sickening.

I still remember ALB and the meta where NATO reservist spam made PACT unplayable, two guys managed to ALMOST make it work. But that's it, and they were pretty much the best players in the entire game.

>balance
>Germans get a captured Firefly in phase A
>can one shot everything until phase C
>only thing it cant one shot is Jumbos, which are extremely limited
>by that time they can get Panthers anyways

From the games I've played the firefly is the only thing that stops them getting utterly rolled over in phase A. It's too cost efficient but I think it's something they do need.

And hopefully when more decks are in the various matchups can start to balance out a bit better.

>want to refund this trash
>already played 4 hours

Its almost as if WW2 AA was significantly less effective than cold war AA.

desu the AA does more to prevent attacks than it ever did in ALB/RD

Brits get AVRE in phase A. Clapistan get shit tons of Jumbos (21 armor) in phase B and C

Finally got a chance to use flamethrowers.

incredibly disappointing.

>play as german infantry
>hold the town in phase A and do decently
>phase B and C hit
>mfw the American blitz hits
>mfw Jumbos eating my anti tank shots
>mfw m4A3s
>mfw crocodile churchills

At least if your SS you can somewhat hold it off with Fireflies. Luftwaffe gets jack shit.

>Luftwaffe gets jack shit.

that's who I played as. Luftwaffe has 0 anti tank capabilities to counter jumbos unless you control the towns and forests and even then you will still get thoroughly fucked.

>everyone else picked SS and I was wondering why they would do that
>game starts and at phase B the rape train comes and my marders and AT guns do nothing
>mfw the rape train didn't stop

I know that feel buddy. The best counter I've found for Jumbo spam as Luftwaffe is 88s and FWs. The FWs almost never outright kill the Jumbo, but they'll force a retreat so you can reposition the 88s.

Right now a couple things are really making the jumbos too good.

The maps are just a bit cramped for what people are doing so they get to sit in nice corridors and just eat shots to the face and 2, there's a lot of stuff missing, I think when more divisions with more options for dealing with them come out they'll be a lot less of an issue as their guns are shite.

Firefly only has AP, meaning they can't shoot AT guns. Huge weakness if you ask me.

So it this game really worth buying at 49.99$? That seems really a lot for a beta. I don't care much about the graphics (gtx 660 here anyway) but more of a interesting gameplay. Is it arcadey game? I like Graviteam games and MoWAS so things like HP for vechicles and no realistic penetration/angling mechanics are a minus too.

Move to third world countries :)

> Is it arcadey game? I like Graviteam games and MoWAS so things like HP for vechicles and no realistic penetration/angling mechanics are a minus too.

due to the new steam things you could buy the game and try a skirmish mode and see the very basics before refunding.

personally I'd say it's worth but I have an inherit bias as I have played all of the Eugen games since RUSE. and RTS games like this are so rare that I have nothing really to compare this one too except the predecessors of Eugen Systems.

I have Wargame: European Escalation by Eugene. I haven't played it that much because I've stupidly bought it long after it was released and multiplayer was dead already but how much would you say Still Division is simliar to it in terms of gameplay?

a lot of the basics are pretty similar but more refined in SD, and obviously more WW2.

Pretty sure you can raise a support ticket and get it refunded no matter time played due to it being a pre-Order

All of these fucking retards complaining about how specialized divisions aren't good in every catagory.

Whats OP, is it german fireflies or fucking jumbos or arves?

They havent even released a 5th of the divisions that are going to be included in the full release but people here seem to disregard that.

Really?

>More like this way they can balance the damn game.
They learned how to balance the game in wrd after they started listening to players and looking at tournies. If they just figure out how to deploy patches more often than twice a year, we could have both lots of units and balance.

>no one posting decks

I mean with the tiny amount of choice it's not like it matters

It matters whether you have one Jumbo or six :^)

Will the beta run up to launch or will it end soon? Been wanting to buy it but see no point if it's just a few days of a buggy beta.

It's far from feature complete. No tutorial or single player campaign yet. Only 4 divisions (like nations in Wargame) present in the game.

>recon
absolutely essential, their view distance is way higher than other units

Anyone feel the maps are too cramped? In Wargame it's few units vs few units in any given area of the map, but here it's just giant blob vs another giant blob.

I-i don't really like it.
>The graphics look like shit, looking at the game is fucking depressing.
>vehicles are FUCKING SLOW and it takes all of the pleasure of armoured combat away from the game
>pure RNG tank combat instead of health
>can't replenish troops or fix vehicles
>infantry are a lot better
>AA does literally nothing half the time and if you get too close to the other guys spawn you just end up getting bombed to shit because your planes can't get there fast enough.
>deck building may as well not even exist since there's so little choice
>none of the tanks can fire on the move for some reason
>UI less clear than RD
>madmat is still a cunt

It's pretty ok. i was really looking forward to this game though.

I agree, it's telling that even phase A is so static despite starting with half as many units as in wargame.

though they gonna keep doing modern warfare, so sad, guess ill never see the urban battle.

>pure RNG tank combat instead of health
blimey, is this game even worth the money or our time?

>Spend 25 minutes fighting phase A firefly that refuses to budge
>Spend 10 minutes hunting German units that are behind my lines racking up thousands of points
>Finally kill the Firefly
>Finally kill those units
>Finally with the use of two jumbo's encircling and with a P47 helping kill the Panther
>Push the Germans all the way back to the Saar
>Game lost by 70 pts

It feels like 70% of the game is decided in Phase A. You can absolutely crush the enemy in Phase B/C and still lose. Units that are cut off really shouldn't generate that many points.

>bombers remove all my AT guns under the fire of 5 bofors and 2 tri posten
Epic.

It runs up to launch. It's really just early access.

Get some towed AA; they can't really kill things but they rack up suppression very quick so they're very good at stopping enemy movement. I've had two Bofors routing two Panthers.

>dead
Well that was short. Farewell Steel Division, you were too shitty.

How did they manage to make it look worse?

It's not any more RNG than in Wargame, they just dropped the health bars following the logic that tanks didn't usually get hit several times by shells which penetrated their armour and keep fighting, so now it's OHK

>they just dropped the health bars
WAAA we're so original we shit on decades old conventions

I think the AA/Plane balance is alright considering how planes are a lot less dangerous to ground units than in Wargame. In Wargame a plane could clear an entire urban zone of an enemy infantry platoon with a single bombing run, here you'll maybe kill 3 people and suppress the rest. Seems balanced to have AA be kind of shitty against that, otherwise there would be no point to even use them since the dedicated anti-tank planes often cant' even destroy their targets and will just suppress.

Eugen's last game was literally "90's RTS nostalgia cash-in" and it flopped, Wargame worked because it broke with RTS conventions and its uniqueness allowed Eugen to get away with incompetence, same here.

Get fucked either way, huh?

AA in its current state works really to either deter planes or support your own planes. Having AA on your side makes fighters wildly more effective at killing other planes.

I hope they get fucked; MadMat is an asshole.

I don't mind the OHK kill system honestly. Tanks aren't built to be shell sponges. Granted, I'm somewhat new to this series so I don't know how well the system worked in previous titles.

Who?

They reduced texture quality all round and attempted to stylise it lightly with somewhat pastel like colours, especially with foliage. Supposedly to improve performance for toasterfriends.

Bombers delete all towed units, in wargame they would only kill some dirt-cheap infantry and even then might be dodged. Now you can systematically drop dumb bombs on AA units, which would've been a retarded proposition in wargame.

AT planes are weaker but it's less that they're bad and more that they were godly before.

I hate the scale and feel of this game. I feel like I'm moving tiny little toys and making explosion sounds with my mouth instead of actually playing a ww2 game.

dead division

>none of the tanks can fire on the move for some reason
Almost all tanks in WW2 did not have stabilizers (Besides some later variations of the Sherman, and even those were mostly for the gunner to not lose sight of the target as opposed to shooting accurately on the move), so shooting on the move didn't really make sense unless you were driving at slow speed over very flat ground.

Graviteam has no health bars for units and the game works fine, faggot. Arcade health mechanics are fucking shit and you should kill yourself for liking them.

I mean, how does that differ from Wargame though?

Even if you hate arcadey stuff, the no HP thing combined with a lack of malfunctions leads to similarly arcadey situations like high-armor tanks getting continuously bombed and pushing on without giving a shit.

I just see it as the bombs not hitting the tank directly, since CAS in ww2 was hilariously inaccurate to say the least, you cannot expect airpower alone to stop an armored push. Also malfunctions are a thing, not every single penetrating hit causes a kill, you might just lose your transmission or get your driver killed.

>not every single penetrating hit causes a kill
And that's what an HP system simulates and why having units not care about previous hits until they suddenly die looks silly.

Sure, you can model it even more accurately by adding malfunctions, but they're very unpleasant to play with.

An HP system simulates a unit being a sponge that can soak x amount of damage until it suddenly goes from 100% effectiveness to dead at an arbitrary cut off point. The current system might look silly but that's how armored combat works, you shrug off hits that don't penetrate your armor until you don't anymore and then it's all over; It doesn't work with you soaking penetrating hits until that last bit of shrapnel from the 9th penetrating hit suddenly decides to bounce around the skull of every single crewman that was uninjured by the 8 previous penetrating hits because the magical aura of HP protected him.

Even in Graviteam with its superb tank damage model Stukas have a hard time bombing tanks to death. Dumb bombs just aren't that effective against armored units.

>that's how armored combat works, you shrug off hits that don't penetrate your armor until you don't anymore and then it's all over
You yourself just earlier said that that's not how armored combat works, if you get shot at enough you're likely to get a malfunction that forces a stop. An HP system might not include the actual malfunctions, but the stops it forces give it some amount of legitimacy over SD's system of pushing at 100% effectiveness after an arbitrary amount of 200kg bombs have exploded around you.

HEAT can also be modelled pretty elegantly with an HP system, you get hit once and then your standoff plate is done for. It's not a perfect simulation of course but it's a good compromise between gameplay and realism.

>You yourself just earlier said that that's not how armored combat works

A penetrating hit having 100% chance of causing a malfunction or death is not the same as a penetrating hit shaving off an arbitrary amount of hitpoints from a unit until you reach a pre-established threshold at which your unit suddenly dies from a stray machine gun round. HP systems also suffer from invulnerability and field repair syndromes seen in Wargame, where a tank would advance until it took sufficient fire to drop it to 1-2 HP and then it would be pulled back and repaired to full health in a minute by a supply truck.

Case in point, the tank in the image has been hit multiple times but hits failed to penetrate the armor, only mobility killing it, in an HP system it would either be completely ok or destroyed; Since for a hit to apply damage it would have to shave off HP, causing even low damage hits to eventually destroy it.

Men of War did tanks right

>fighting Firefly
>hunting Germans

The fuck?

Is this some sort of alternative history FFA?

Germans have a number of captured tanks. These captured tanks are superior to the allied tanks, and the allies dont even get them. Why the fuck does it make sense for Germans to have a captured Firefly, but the allies to not have a Firefly at all? Was it the only Firefly on the entire front?

Hon hon hon, Mon'Amie in le game the Allemands have captured une Firefly so they get it but the britaniques don't. :^)

I don't disagree that a malfunction system is more accurate than an HP system. But that's not SD's system. SD's system is at best a sidegrade to WRD.

I've heard stories about people doing fun stuff like pushing metal sheets to reinforce their armor, but I find the game unplayable due to the zoomed in camera and small scale.

I have literally not seen Germans lose one single time since I purchased this garbage

Git gud?

nice edit

>Why the fuck does it make sense for Germans to have a captured Firefly, but the allies to not have a Firefly at all? Was it the only Firefly on the entire front?

only british/canadian armored divisions have the firefly.

unfortunately the allies currently have a US armored division, and a british infantry division. The canadian armored division will definitely have them.

What the actual fuck. I had hopes for this game. My mistake, I guess.

Less than a quarter of the divisions are currently in the beta, I'm sure there will be plenty of Fireflies on the allies side

Isn't the game going to have a free french division?
If so, is french bias still a thing with Eugen? I didn't play RD but I remember back in the ALB days people were going on about it pretty hard.

Also, is there any watchable gameplay anywhere? All I've seen so far was so glaringly bad that I couldn't bear to watch it long enough to get an actual impression of the game.

Yep, 2eme armee I think its called

Unless it's a stand-in, I don't see why they need them either. It's not like the Germans lacked for AT capability in WWII.

Isn't the only axis power in the game germany? They'd need all the variety they can get if half the divisions are to be german.

France/Eurocorps spent most of RD being a second-tier deck

They're going off of historical T&OEs for the divisions, some indeed fielded captured and converted units in Normandy, they have Beckers Funnies in for example

Luftlande Division is fucking trash, has no AT at all

>20AP hollow charge for the pak 36
>marders galore
>10 accuracy, 250m range AT weapons in every paratrooper squad

Just don't try to play an airborne division in an open field and expect to do well, they work just fine in urban areas.

Even your scouts have a fucking panzerschreck wehraboo

marders are shit

20AP pak 36 round only works at 300m or less