EVE Online General /eog/

not relevant to the discussion topic at hand

bittervets that are so used to just telling dissenting opinions to stfu, that when someone actually brings up a discussion, you guys don't know how to actually formulate a counterargument, and instead either resort to personal attacks and knee jerk reactions, or bring up irrelevant side points of "i feel this other aspect is unfair, so i will not address your main point, until this other thing i just brought up that has nothign to do with the discussion has been addressed first"

like, come on at provide more challenge than the kids on the official forums

You can put it in a triggered anom and empty it with a pod

Triggering spawns in your site doesn't stop you running it or being rewarded. Rats do no damage to you carrier or overprop cruiser

Entosis does nothing, you can just ignore it

>entosis does nothing you can ignore it
except reinforces it.

>they do no damage to carriers or overprop cruiser
who gives a fuck, triggering sites wouldn't do shit to add any content

I'd rather blops onto the fucking carrier than fuck with the carrier's shit

It is relevant. Afk cloaking has no way to deal with it, but at the same time, trespassers in normal ships are far too easy to deal with

so what. You aren't entitled to regulating who can and can't hunt you or be in your systems

Reinforcing does nothing if you can't show up when it comes out

And your blops cancer pvp is not the only pvp

>Reinforcing does nothing if you can't show up when it comes out
ok if you're not gonna show up I'll just entosis it again and kill it

>blops cancer
stay mad null fag.
>not the only fleet
yea and if I went on a roam in your shit you'd just dock up and jerk off

i fail to see how 'fixing the ess' is relevant
please explain
>sabotage progress in sites
sites like combat anomalies? or ded sites?
>no way to fuck with structures
entosising is a valid game mechanic that's offered in the game, a lot of people simply choose not to utilize it

yes, agreed, and by this logic, neither should the camper be entitled to initiate all engagements at his discretion. he should be as vulnerable (granted, not as vulnerable as an uncloaked ship) to be engaged upon
you are not entitled to be perfect safe unless docked up

>neither should the camper be entitled to initiate all engagements at his discretion.
If I catch you, that means its my advantage to prey on you. stop making this up like its a game of chess and you have to take turns or some stupid shit. I'm hunting you and if I catch you I win. I engage the PVP I will hunt you and kill you at my discretion. If you don't defend yourself by taking basic precaution and safety measures you deserve to die

>basic precaution and safety measures

>Again

Doesn't work if you arrive by wormhole and don't have autism

You'd just dock up

I've just been posting about making reasons not to dock up so that pvp can happen and risk averse shitters can be punished

>If I catch you, that means its my advantage to prey on you
agreed
and if i, as the defender of the system, manage to catch you, as the cloaky camper, it is my advantage to choose to engage upon your ship

>If you don't defend yourself by taking basic precaution and safety measures you deserve to die
and if you are, inexplicably, away from your keyboard during this engagement, then you have committed a mistake that many novice pilots make. you are not entitled to perfect safety, and this should extend to being cloaked in deep safes.

again, my proposal would not prevent you from engaging in any of these activities. you are still just as capable as initiating an engagement as any other time as before. the only difference this proposed method would do, is give the defender a tool to use. if you are away from your keyboard, then you've made a mistake and should be at risk of losing your ship due to that mistake

>Doesn't work if you arrive by wormhole and don't have autism
ok well I'm not arriving by wormhole or any of that.

>you'd just dock up
why would I dock up? I'm wrecking your shit

>not relevant to the discussion topic at hand
Are you implying there can be only one topic at a time?

>Are you implying there can be only one topic at a time?
the point brought up was that there should be a method through which a defender to choose to engage upon an unwanted pilot that is cloaked up in a given system

that poster did not draw any connections between the main point and his comments. if he were to return and clarify those connections, i'd be more than happy to engage in discussion in regards to those topics.

>and if i, as the defender of the system, manage to catch you, as the cloaky camper, it is my advantage to choose to engage upon your ship
yea ok thats how it works. Its called baiting, you don't have to go through all this description shit.

>away from keyboard during that engagement
what fucking engagement ? You fucking warp off, change system, literally anything

How do you not understand this. If you lose something by choosing to run from everyone all the time, then things are better than if all the time it's just everyone trying to dock up

They attempted this with ESS and failed, and entosis sort of did it before they changed it

>If you lose something by choosing to run from everyone all the time
what are you losing if you're running?

If the game was sensibly designed, you'd lose your ESS shekels, and maybe those other two suggestions about fucking up your anoms and sov upgrades

>yea ok thats how it works. Its called baiting, you don't have to go through all this description shit.
ah, so with this, we go back to a previous point
that cloaky camping is the only activity in the game that requires a disproportionate response in order to defend against the mere possibility of the attack

you require the attention, ships, and focus of mutiple members, not just a sole individual, in order to act as a defense against the simple presence of an individual in the system an individual who may or may not be away from the keyboard, this disproportionate response required is not healthy for the game. do you agree or disagree?

>what fucking engagement ? You fucking warp off, change system, literally anything
>just leave the system
you are advocating that the defender not have an appropriate tool in response, and that they should simply leave the grid and or system. i would contend that this is incredibly poor design, if there were a game mechanic, or a potential use of a game mechanic, whereby a player's only viable response is to "just leave", do you agree or disagree?

Then cry about it, thats what you get when you don't defend your shit!

...

>that cloaky camping is the only activity in the game that requires a disproportionate response in order to defend against the mere possibility of the attack
Who cares. You're being hunted thats how it works. None of your make believe scenarios or other hypothetical shit will stop you from being bad and me blopsing my shit on you whether I do it solo or I do it with 40 fucking bombers.

>you're advocating the defender
you're not defending if you're ratting. You're defending if you're trying to bait out the blops

>Who cares
Not an argument

The problem with cloaky campers is that they project power far greater than the commitment required to field them.

I suppose really the only other counter is having a spy to tell you when its safe. Otherwise you just have to assume there is always a fleet that can rape whatever you can field at any point.

Doesn't that make it unique and worth being preserved?

cute, but yet again
not a valid argument

>you're not defending if you're ratting.
i've never brought this up in regards to ratters, you're merely assuming it
i'm making this proposal as a tool provided to pilots, of all types, to be able to detect and find a cloaked pilot, and then give them the choice to decide to engage upon the cloaked pilot or not

I think you've failed to understand. I'm saying the game should work like that. Currently you just dock and all you lose is your isk per hour

simply the fact that it's unique does not immediately merit worth in preserving it

while i fully concede that this will have the potential to negatively impact a very niche style of gameplay, i am fully convinced that this will be for the better, as even those individuals who engage in this niche style of gameplay have admitted that they receive no tangible benefit for having done so.

>cloaked pilots can be probed down
>cloak reduces the signature radious, making it harder to find them
Is this what you want?

>wah the cloaky campers!
>I don't wanna do anything to potentially counter or stop them so I'm gonna sit here and cry

Things you can do to stop cloaky camping
-scout neighboring systems for blops fleets
-bash structures and assets belonging to the blopsers
-put a fucking spy in their corp, find out when their shit is running, find out who their spies are
-take their sov, stop them from living in range of you
-change fucking system. You have tons of places to go in null
-be a pussy and blue them
-go fight them

there is TONS of stuff you can do to stimulate content. Stop crying about literal non-issues you won't do anything about.

>project power far greater than the commitment required to field them.
No they don't they apply appropriate power. They form a big fleet to blops with its no different than any other blob. You wanna kill bombers, do an interceptor trap with a bait tanked ship. Punch them in the nose

>you should be able to detect them
no you shouldn't you're not entitled to safety at all in any way shape or form

>now you need MG virtues, full scanning mid locus t3c with perfect scan skills to scan down a cloaky

If they're enjoying themselves I'm sure there's something to be said for it.

>scout neighboring systems for blops fleets
Cloaked
>bash structures and assets belonging to the blopsers
They don't have any
>put a fucking spy in their corp, find out when their shit is running, find out who their spies are
Have fun putting spies into PLbluedonut or the personal alt corps
>take their sov, stop them from living in range of you
They don't have any
>change fucking system. You have tons of places to go in null
That doesn't remove the problem
>go fight them
PL

That is ez affordable tho

>Is this what you want?
in regards to the specifics, i'm not sure
i would like there to be a tool that pilots can use, whether that shows up in the form of probes that can find cloaks will be up to CCP to design and implement
i am merely advocating the concept of a tool that allows pilots to do this

>-scout neighboring systems for blops fleets
this does not solve the issue at hand, simply allows you be aware of it to a greater extent

>-bash structures and assets belonging to the blopsers
again, tangential, does not address the specific act of cloaky camping

>-put a fucking spy in their corp, find out when their shit is running, find out who their spies are
infeasible, and for some corps, nigh impossible. there should never be a requirement to utilize an out-of-game interaction to expressly interact with an in-game mechanic

>-take their sov, stop them from living in range of you
does not work if the corp in question does not own sov (wormhole corps, PL, NPC null inhabitants)

>-change fucking system. You have tons of places to go in null
again, doesn't address the problem

>-be a pussy and blue them
and thereby have both parties engage in activties that provide no tangible benefit?

>-go fight them
this is exactly what i wish to provide to pilots, the capabilty to find and choose to fight them if they so desire.

>no you shouldn't you're not entitled to safety at all in any way shape or form
agreed, and this should extend to being cloaked in a deep safe :^)

that is valid, but still does not address the core aspect of the discussion

>Cloaked
No they wouldn't be, they'd be at a pos, off a citadel or station. They don't sit around cloaked waiting for shit, they're lazily waiting inside a forcefield. Go push their shit in.

>they don't have any
yea they fucking do, oh wait are you the loser being camped by PL from yesterday?
>putting spies into PL
I fucking knew it. You might as well leave because PL will never stop and no amount of retarded suggestions will stop them from hunting you.
>they don't have any
yup because thats how PL works, kicking your ass and making you cry
>PL
yup, your pissy little renter corp doesn't mean shit PL's gonna win, you might as well move back to highsec

>his blops/bombers don't sit cloaked
Your corp must be the laziest niggers alive, everybody I know sits cloaked so anybody ceptoring through system won't see them blops'd up

>they apply appropriate power. They form a big fleet to blops with its no different than any other blob.

Except that the size, make-up, and position of the fleet is hidden until the cyno is lit and the fleet bridges in. You can then jump to multiple locations, so you can just sit cloaky campers in multiple systems and that one fleet is effectively camping all of those different locations simultaneously.

The problem is that there is nothing the residents can do to avoid engaging the fleet other than not log in. They can't wait for a time when people aren't on to get indexes up. They can't try and kill the cloaky camper to stop you from bridging in.

Its not like the campers have to sit there and be formed up 24/7 either. They just need someone watching a couple cloaky alts and log in whenever something is going on. Its low-effort and high reward.

>this does not solve the issue at hand,
It tells you if they're active or not, if they're actively hunting or the guy is just afk.
>doesn't address the specific act of cloaky camping
yes it does. Removing the entity hunting you makes a guarantee that the cloaky camper can't do shit to hunt you because none of his blops are in range.
>infeasible
why? because you're a bad spy? you don't wanna put in any effort?
>there should never be a requirement to utilize out of game interaction
oh so you're autistic, congrats you're hopeless
>doesn't work if wormholers
wormholes disappear
>PL
you're fucked not because of cloaky camping but because its PL
>doesn't address the problem
yea it does, you go to another system with no cloaky camper if you wanna rat
>parties involved no tangible benefit
take it up with your diplomats
>this is what I wanna provide pilots but I can't wah
GO FUCKING FIGHT THEM, RF SOMETHING, GO ROAM, SOMETHING

>No they wouldn't be, they'd be at a pos, off a citadel or station. They don't sit around cloaked waiting for shit
Yes they do. If you don't jump from bluespace you all sit cloaked on a bridging blops.

>you're lazy because you put up a POS that you can sit inside while you wait for a target via hunters
cry about it. You're being hunted and you refuse to do any effort.

>Except that the size, make-up, and position of the fleet is hidden until the cyno
So what? You're bad at gathering intel and they're good at keeping intel safe.

>The problem is that there is nothing the residents can do to avoid engaging the fleet other than not log in.
oh I see, you guys are such carebears you don't wanna put any effort into solving your problem. But now I learned you're being hunted by PL so I know that none of your retarded suggestions to stop cloaky camping will stop PL from pushing your shit in so hard you'll be constipated.

>GO FUCKING FIGHT THEM, RF SOMETHING, GO ROAM, SOMETHING
They don't fight, there is noting to rf, if you go roam they just blob you. Public null groups can't form the same quality of fleets as lowsec pvp-only meme alliances. And the core strat fleet has other shit do already

>PL
>bluespace
PL has no blue space, they're obviously in range of you because they're pushing your shit in with other ways not cloaky camping.

Go fucking cry about it, PL isn't dumb and PL will win against your dinky pointless useless corp. Go fucking cry about it

Balancing probing around "just make an autism probe alt" was awful. nothing should be unprobeable for anyone, it should just take longer

>wow let me magically get the enemy fleet comp while they are all cloaked

You sound angry

I'm not part of the rest of the conversation, I'm just pointing out that most blopsers DO sit cloaked.

No, it's not the size of the corp, it's wasting the time of a dozen people just for the chance that some retard decides to cloaky camp in a non nullified cloak ship.
The face that I have to spell it out for you just proves you actually understand Jack on the subject.

>It tells you if they're active or not, if they're actively hunting or the guy is just afk.
this does not merely refer to covert cynos but also cloaked gankers
this does not address the core of the problem that defenders still have no mean to initiate an egagement upon a cloaked target

>Removing the entity hunting you makes a guarantee that the cloaky camper can't do shit to hunt you because none of his blops are in range.
given the ability for blops to cloak up and remain undetectable, this does not alter the initial problem. you may be fully away that there are blops, but if they are cloaked up in a deep safe, you, again, have no means to apply any pressure or initiate an engagement

>you don't wanna put in any effort?
refer back to my point about games not requiring out-of-game interaction to expressly interact with an in-game mechanic

>oh so you're autistic, congrats you're hopeless
cute, irrelevant to the discussion

>wormholes disappear
my proposed plan would not impact or alter the way wormholes are generated, the mechanics and algorithms used would not be directly affected by my proposal

>yea it does, you go to another system with no cloaky camper if you wanna rat
again, this does not solve the problem, in a hypothetical situation where the attacking party has every single system in game camped by a cloaky camper, your argument would not be valid, and there would still be the problem of the lack of tools for a pilot to use to detect said cloaky campers

>GO FUCKING FIGHT THEM, RF SOMETHING, GO ROAM, SOMETHING
i would like to fight them, but as it stands currently with in game mechanics, i cannot engage them as they are cloaked and undetectable
roaming does not have a direct connection to this

i understand that change is scary, but if you cannot provide a valid counter argument, i suggest you refrain from embarassing yourself further

>wow do I really need to know their fleet comp to know they're online, active and readily hunting me with a bunch of PL within jumping range of my ratting system?
>wow I don't but I'm gonna cry anyway

>PL has no blue space

>i know the composition of the enemy
>i still am unable to actively initiate an engagement and must for the camper to make a move

>pointing out that most
no they don't, this unsubstantiated

>this does not merely refer to covert cynos but also cloaked gankers
Cloaky campers are the least of your problem if PL is in your neighboring systems.

>given the ability for blops to cloak up and remain undetectable, this does not alter the initial problem. you may be fully away that there are blops, but if they are cloaked up in a deep safe, you, again, have no means to apply any pressure or initiate an engagement

You don't need to see a blops fleet on dscan to know a blops fleet is hunting you dumb fuck.

>cute, irrelevant to the discussion
Clearly it is relevant because you refuse to be a good, useful spy. But you're apparently being hunted by PL so all this is at the bottom of the list of your problem.
>my proposed plan would not impact or alter the way wormholes are generated, the mechanics and algorithms used would not be directly affected by my proposal
Your proposed plan would do nothing to stop PL from killing you, taking your shit, kicking you out.
>again, this does not solve the problem, in a hypothetical situation where the attacking party has every single system in game camped by a cloaky camper, your argument would not be valid, and there would still be the problem of the lack of tools for a pilot to use to detect said cloaky campers
Your problem is you have PL on your ass not that cloaky camping is afoot.
>i would like to fight them, but as it stands currently with in game mechanics, i cannot engage them as they are cloaked and undetectable
roaming does not have a direct connection to this
go fucking cry about it, PL does more than just blopsing fleets, its not fucking bombers bar. Your lazy ass won't do shit to stop your "problem" because you're excuses all end with "but its PL none of your suggestions work" which means your bigger problem is PL not cloaky campers at all

If it's PL what does it matter what they have, your 6 man fleet is dead either way.

Go fucking unsub if you're whining that all your problems stem from PL because all the suggestions work against everyone else but you use PL as your scape goat because you're a fucking pussy that doesn't wanna admit hes wrong

>be in horde
>have 2 cloaky alts running all times because I have a decent computer
>blops fleet can be flash formed any time because tons of people in corp
>everyone knows but theres nothing they can do

Heheheh

This

Cloaky camping isn't your problem. Its that PL is your neighbor

or that all these fags whining are just using PL as a scape goat to try and denounce all the suggestions that actively solve cloaky camper problems

>damn, I can't counter his argument
>hurr just unsub lol

>Cloaky campers are the least of your problem if PL is in your neighboring systems.
agreed, but again, this isn't specifically in regards to PL, this is in regards to any cloaky camper who stays within a system for an extended duration of time
everyone here is saying that no one is entitled to perfect safety, yet they are more than happy to grant it to a cloaked ship in a deep safe, this contradiction confuses me, and my proposed idea would help rectify this contradiction by placing cloaked ships in as just as much risk as any other

>Clearly it is relevant because you refuse to be a good, useful spy.
i would never advocate, nor support, the utilization of an out-of-game interaction with other pilots to expressly interact with in-game mechanics. this opens the door to doxxing, or real life threats as way to influence in-game decision making

>Your proposed plan would do nothing to stop PL from killing you, taking your shit, kicking you out.
this is irrelevant
again, if you haven't read my initial proposal, it is to provide pilots with a tool to counter cloaky campers by providing them a means by which they can detect cloaked ships. i do not care involve any particular corp or alliance, other than to serve as examples of failed or successful utilization of current game mechanics

>which means your bigger problem is PL not cloaky campers at all
again, you're still focused on an example alliance, and not the actual point of the discussion itself. regardless of PL or any other corp, I feel providing this tool to all pilots would provide a benefit

>Go fucking unsub if you're whining that all your problems stem from PL
yet again, you people seem to believe that because i brought up an example, that said example was my initial point of contention. this is an incorrect examination of my proposal and your comment is once again not relevant to the original discussion of providing a tool for pilots to use

>I can't counter all his suggestions
>I know! I'll claim all the suggestions are IMPOSSIBLE because PL is my neighbor and I can't do anything about it!
>therefore I can claim that cloaky camping is a problem and not that PL is my fucking neighbor and ripping my ass a new one

>i don't have an actual counter argument
>oh he used PL as an example
>i'll try to derail the conversation from the initial point and try to get him to rage about PL so that i can discredit his arguments

>agreed
Then this whole talk about whining about cloaky campers you can't fix after all my suggestions is because you're incompetent clear as day.

None of your suggestions will EVER stop PL from ruining your shit. If its not cloaky camping its worse, they'll hellcamp your station until you leave and they take the system, blow up all your assets and ruin your shit..

>this is irrelevant
No you dumb fuck you can't claim its irrelevant and post NOTHING of substance. I suggested 7 fucking things to solve your cloaky camping problem and you dismissed them all as impossible because PL was on your doorstep. You had no counterargument but blaming PL and their highly elite group of fuckers from shitting down your neck. You've done nothing. So now that I've established that you're clearly using PL as an excuse and not an actual threat upon your sov you can do literally everything I said to stop it instead of whining that you can't do anything.

>i would never advocate, nor support, the utilization of an out-of-game interaction with other pilots to expressly interact with in-game mechanics. this opens the door to doxxing, or real life threats as way to influence in-game decision making
No you're just avoiding it because you're a shitty spy or that you refuse to put any effort into solving your problem because you'd rather cry about a non issue you will do NOTHING about.

>again, you're still focused on an example alliance
You used PL to blame all your problems on and the fact that you can't take any of my suggestions because PL is stopping you.

>yet again, you people seem to believe that because i brought up an example,
Its not an example, you used PL as implicit evidence of why you can't do ANYTHING about your problems

>heres a list of shit you can do
>I can't do any of those because PL
>you're blaming all your problems on PL
>no it was just an example

oh so its not real, it was merely an act you were hypothetically supposing. PL isn't actually shitting down your throat, you're just lazy and would rather whine because you wanna pretend you're right instead of actually doing what works to remove problems from the field

>giving PL attention

>tfw 15mil SP and still in pandemic horde
>join another corp because i thought that's what you're supposed to do
>nobody logs on unless fleet, everyone is bitter and don't like helping new people
>go back to pandemic horde because it's fun and there's always something going on

Why do people even bother leaving """newbie""" corps? Is there anything better out there?

>denounce all the suggestions that actively solve cloaky camper problems
which suggestion has not been shown to be irrelevant to the discussion at hand?

if you mean suggestions like "go reinforce their structures" or "go kill their pos towers" i point you back to the previous point of "cloaky camping is the only activity in the game require necessitates a disproportionate response and is not healthy for the game"

>one of your suggestions will EVER stop PL from ruining your shit.
this isn't about PL, this is about cloaky camping. since you're so keen on falling back on PL, let me remind you that PL was brought up as an example of an alliance that cannot by attacked by reinforcing their structures (as per the suggestion you have brought up). they were used as an example to show that your suggestion is not always feasible, nor a viable solution. please stop trying to derail the conversation due to the presence of a single example, no matter how much it may trigger you.

my proposal would apply equally against any cloaky camper. as it's a tool for any pilot to use so that he has the ability to choose an engagement against any other cloaked ship.

yet more continued misunderstanding
the original poster brought up suggestions, which i've already shown to not be viable through an example.

the proposed idea i have brought up would be viable, regardless of party affiliation.

>Its not viable because of an example I mentioned
So again its not real, PL isn't stopping you because PL isn't near you

stop making shit up this is fucking bait. I simply refuse to believe you're this autistic that you can't get a spy into another corp because you think that corp is LIKE PL

You are so fucking retarded, just fucking kill yourself you autistic fuck

>Its not about PL because PL is hypothetically shitting on me which is why I can't do anything about all my problems
>woe is me
you are fucking autistic 100% confirmed

>So again its not real
no, it's not explicitly PL
this is in reference to any unwanted cloaky pilot in a system

> I simply refuse to believe you're this autistic that you can't get a spy into another corp
i fail to see why you believe it is a good thing to require an out of game interaction to influence an in-game mechanic.
even if i were to fancy this idea, and get a spy into the other corp, that action by itself does not solve the problem that there is a cloaky camper that i am still unable to engage upon

>You are so fucking retarded, just fucking kill yourself you autistic fuck
why do you seem so mad about this?
are you just not capable of having a discussion where you can rely upon your bittervet status and tell other people to stfu?

read the above ^
you children are so used to just "being right through entitlement of seniority" that if someone comes up with just a mere proposal, you guys lose your shit and just resort to name calling and attempted derailings

Can you bookmark a location mid-warp?

Having to put a spy into a corp to counter a strategy means it's unbalanced

Yes

>no, it's not explicitly PL
No you just used PL as an example of why you can't do any of the 7 suggestions I listed. But you aren't dealing with PL because we aren't actually talking about PL. You just made that up to suit your argument, you can't have it both ways.

I just listed you 7 things you can do to stop your cloaky camping issue. By disabling your enemy they have no reason to cloaky camp your systems and they move the alt elsewhere. Thats the entire idea. You fix cut down your problem at the tree trunk, not at the leaves above. Not only does your suggestion not fix the problem that your neighbors are apparently shitting on you that you've made up and used as an example but can't do even though your example is 100% hypothetical. Even then with how CCP has viewed cloaking suggestions in the past this sounds awfully similar to one that was brought up at a round table I was at and Fozzie and Larriken immediately shot down because of both complexity and lack of flow to the game. CCP is vehemently against making exceptions to exceptions nor ruining the already well established cloaking mechanic they know they're happy with. Furthermore they're more keen on removing local from null before considering a suggestion like this.

>why are you so mad
I'm not mad, you're just autistic because you engineer excuses to valid suggestions that my corporation has practiced and done because we aren't full of bads like you wanna make yourself out to be. Its clear that because you refuse to even put a spy in an enemy corp you aren't interested in anything that requires effort. You're your own worse enemy.

No its not, its a valid strategy. I have 3 alts I can throw into virtually any corp effortlessly and you wouldn't know what a good spy was

why are you still replying to that guy. he's been writing essays and calling things "cute" for literally four hours now.

FOUR HOURS.

>You just made that up to suit your argument,
lol, no, you're just choosing to avoid the previous comment
>if you mean suggestions like "go reinforce their structures" or "go kill their pos towers" i point you back to the previous point of "cloaky camping is the only activity in the game require necessitates a disproportionate response and is not healthy for the game"

the suggestions you have brought up only serve to support my claim that cloaky camping is the only activity the requires an extraordinarily disproportionate response

if the response against a single pilot in local who may or may not be afk is to go reinforce their structures, i would argue that is indeed a disproportionate response, and therefore not healthy for the game

you still have yet to address this subpoint that i've brought up.

I don't know. I like reminding people that they're bad, autistic, retarded like all those bad suggestions I heard at fanfest

Fozzie and Larriken put up with a lot of shit because of these idiots and the people who gripe that CCP doesn't listen don't understand that the game designers have to put up with so much bullshit before getting good shit.

Redpill me on mining

I'd like a laid-back way of making passive income.

How much would you guys estimate a decently-trained Procurer pilot make off spodumain or gneiss per minute

don't mine until you can sit in a well-fit rorqual with good skills. then kill yourself because you trained for a rorqual

>Redpill me on

Downvoted

>its disproportionate because I said so
>its unhealthy because I said so
>my awful suggestion that has been shotdown before is a good idea even though it and all my claims are 100% unsubstantiated

Why though?
Is there an equally laid-back passive way to make ISK without as much training or something?

I'm pretty new, and have 1.3 billion ISK right now. Took me 3 months to get there. I'd like to mine rocks semi-afk to help pay for losing ships while learning PVP, but it seems that all ISK-making techniques in eve are boring as fuck and i'd prefer such an activity to happen in the background.

> don't understand that the game designers have to put up with so much bullshit before getting good shit.

>good shit examples being
>lol just go reinforce all their structures (in response to a single cloaky camper)
>lol just go knock down their pos tower (in reponse to a single cloaky camper)
>lol just leave (in response to a single cloaky camper)
>lol unsub you faggot (in response to a single cloaky camper)
>lol just go on a roam (in response to a single cloaky camper)

i fail to see why you don't realize that your suggestions only serve to support my point about requiring disproportionate effort

why are you even trying at this point?

Just because it's a valid strategy doesn't mean it's one that's healthy for gameplay. Something should be counterable with in-game mechanics, not requiring you to use spies.

bait

Probably around 15m/h without boosts, up to 50% more with.

I see, thanks

That doesn't sound too bad for hardly any work

not bait, actual arguments being brought up
to this point so far, you and your friends counter arguments have only worked to support my case

just because the faggots on the eve online forums aren't able to properly defend their arguments you guys have become overly confident in being able to just say "stfu, faggot"

mining without doing anything with that ore yourself is probably the single worst way to make isk in eve. true, it's absolutely braindead and requires zero effort except to hit your shit once in a blue moon, but unless you're doing indy on your own or can mine with a rorq, i really struggle to see it being worth anyone's time -- even semi-afk.

Keep in mind the Proc's ore bay is relatively small. You'll have to unload every 15 minutes or so without boosts, and every 7 with.

I see, thanks for letting me know

What would you recommend for making ISK? Is there a fun way to make decent ISK/hr?