/eagg/ - East Asian Genocide General - 'Did I give them the lesson on rain?' edition

EAGG tell me Zhuge Liang was a hack... Meanwhile 48 laws of power and it critically acclaimed author tells me otherwise...

Really makes me wunder who to believe...

>One of the best known examples of the use of the Empty Fort Strategy is a FICTIONAL incident in the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which romanticises historical events in the late Han dynasty and the Three Kingdoms period. This event took place during the first of a series of campaigns – known as Zhuge Liang's Northern Expeditions
hmm... really gets the noggin' joggin'

Reminder that Lu Lingqi only (willingly) takes the BNC [Big Nanman Cock]

Love this track btw
youtube.com/watch?v=_kvF7dypbZ8

I want to suck Lu Lingqi's feminine penis until she fills me up with her cummies

HELLO GRACIA

...

It's just Weishitters refusing to accept that one peasant who started out as a simple farmer managed to fuck with them for years despite facing armies many times greater than his own and with the best talent available in Wei.

Remember, a dead Zhuge frightens a living Zhongda, and Sima Yi will never be able to live it down.

>Kongming had to literally kill himself to trick Zhongda once
>Zhongda laughed it off afterwards

whoa... Kongming truly is... the greatest strategist...

>suffers a huge defeat against an army that was less than half his size, with available reinforcements nearby
>implying you can just laugh it off

Sounds like rationalization to me. Everyone afterwards will always know that Sima Yi was only mediocre compared to Kongming.

>Enemy commander dies
>Told by Cao Rui to not attack
>Does as commanded and doesn't attack
hmm... truly a huge defeat...

> Everyone afterwards will always know that Sima Yi was only mediocre compared to Kongming
>Stop Multiple invasions by Wu by just being in the border region
hmm... Wu really knew he was mediocre... really gets the noggin' joggin'...

>Sounds like rationalization to me
The ant presumes to know the tigers thoughts...

Hows the rain?

I love Lingqi so much, here's what I would do if she was real and we knew each other.

I would first work up the courage to ask her to visit my tent, then I would give her a meal of the best rations I had received from my commander during our campaigns. During our meal I would tell her how I truly felt about her and how much I wish we could be together. She would accept my feelings and say that she felt the same way about me. Under the cover of night we would escape from Xiapi castle and away from all the wars. During our escape we would come across the meager shelter I was able to build in my spare time far away in the woods. This shelter, or shack as it probably would look, would become our home for the forseeable future. During this time we would cuddle every day become the happiest couple in the land. Within a few days I would leave to go hunting as I usually do. Exactly 20 minutes after I leave I would give the signal to my officers waiting in the bushes near the shack. We would break in and tie Lingqi up with as much rope as we could find. After that Xiapi would be known simply as rape city and I would make a fortune selling 30 minute access to the shack. Within a few months I would make enough money that I would buy Yuan Shao's army and we would take over china.

>bring out a huge army to oppose Zhuge Liang
>still have to retreat twice because the mere thought that Zhuge Liang could still be alive was enough to have Sima Yi quaking in his boots

Wu was even worse than mediocre, so it follows that even Sima Yi could contain Wu.

>Kongming had to die to trick Zhongda
>even though Kongming had his finest troops while Zhongda had hastily conscripted militias, as the rest were fighting Wu
a good long term strategy kongming

Cite the militia thing. Remember Mount Qi? Sima Yi had his best there, didn't he.

Zhuge-haters are just the butthurt reincarnations of Sima Yi trying to rationalize the fact that he got dunked on, it's like pottery.

>Remember Mount Qi?

Same battle where Zhuge Liang was forced to retreat and lost some odd 10,000 troops?
You sure you want to cite that battle?

Listen, you guys aren't giving Zhuge Liang enough credit. He managed to kill Wei Yan.

>believing a fake story from the book of Jin
He inflicted 3000 casualties and killed Zhang He. The place where Zhang He was killed, which as you recall was when Zhuge Liang was withdrawing, was north of the site of Sima Yi's so-called victory. How did Zhang He die so far north during the pursuit if Sima Yi had checked Zhuge Liang much to the south?

Sima Yi shitters have to come up with fake victories while accusing Zhuge Liang of being a conman, it's like pottery.

Different Campaign.

Plus on his final campaign, Kongming managed to achieve none of his objectives, unless his objectives where to fight no proper battles, lose two officers and put further strain on Shu

Best boy :)

>different campaign
Both Zhang He's death and Sima Yi's supposed victory occurred during the Fourth Expedition. How could it be a different campaign? Sima Yi shitters making up facts again.

In the fifth expedition, note that Wu attacked Hefei and Cao Rui moved to counter Wu only after Sima Yi had already deployed against Zhuge Liang, which suggest that your claim that Sima Yo had a bunch of hastily drawn up militia because the others were sent to face Wu to be another Sima Yi fake "fact".

I suppose it can be said against Kongming that he attempted to do so much when he was only a single man, whereas a single man cannot hope to change the will of heaven. That is to say, despite Zhuge Liang's brilliance, not even he could hope to overcome Wei's military dominance alone, especially after Sun Quan failed yet another coordinated invasion despite Zhuge Liang drawing away the attention of Wei. Despite this, Zhuge Liang managed to hurt Wei far more than they hurt Shu, because he managed to make Wei expend many times more men and materiel on Shu than Shu did against Wei. It is to the credit of Jiang Wan and Fei Yi that they continued Zhuge Liang's policies and continued the prosperity of the state, but that could only delay the inevitable invasion that would and did occur in the absence of decisive military action. The north consolidated their forces and, in a concentrated blow that was impossible when Zhuge Liang held the strategic initiative, invaded Shu.

>had to kill himself to trick Zhongda
>campaigns failed to achieve their objectives

Stop fighting! Let's set aside our differences, and return to what we agree on.

Do we agree on the goddess that we all worship?

>Zhuge Liang managed to hurt Wei far more than they hurt Shu, because he managed to make Wei expend many times more men and materiel on Shu than Shu did against Wei.
This is completely wrong. The population of Shu was around 1 million people, Wei around 8 millions. The difference between the two was that when Zhuge Liang gathered 100,000 soldiers, it was 10% of the whole population. One in five male Shu citizens was a member of the army. Losing 10,000 soldiers in a battle meant losing 1% of the whole country in a single day.

Using twice the amount of soldiers and supplies wasn't as much of a strain on Wei, especially if you count the length of the supply line that Shu had to maintain. Avoiding battles with Shu and pulling back from confrontations was the wise choice, as Sun Bin would have agreed in his Art of War. In the end, Zhuge Liang lost despite doing his best because he failed to break the deadlock.

Fuck you

How does an aspiring strategist overcome this

Quit doing homework and pay attention during battles.

Except Zhuge Liang never lost 10,000 soldiers, whereas Cao Zhen and Sima Yi had to maintain field armies of over twice Zhuge Liang's size as well as several large garrisons at Chang'an and the surrounding cities and commanderies, making it several hundred thousand soldiers in theatre. Then you have to remember that Zhuge Liang succeeding in taking commanderies and the wheat harvest in the area on numerous occasions, further inflicting materiel damage against Wei.

I want to be the man to make Yuanji smile :)

REEEE WHY WONT YOU LOVE ME LIKE YOU LOVE SIMA YI

What about reacting quickly to unexpected developments
What if I make the wrong choice

she reminds me of my ex, because she never smiled any time she looked at me.

>a bunch of know-nothing American edgelords preferring Sima Yi to Zhuge Liang
>when everyone else already honors Zhuge Liang
Don't pretend it's not Sima Yi shitters constantly shilling the Zhuge Liang hate because they are jealous of Zhuge Liang's legacy.

Go back to sleep, Zhuge Liang

I'm sorry, user.

>had to kill himself to trick Zhongda
>campaigns failed to achieve their objectives

>a bunch of know-nothing Chinks and Japs, who know shit about history preferring zGay Lieng
>While real masters of strategy knows, Based Sima Yi was better in every way

Go back to sleep shiting dragon

Ok I'll settle who's the better strategist,

Zhuge Liang:
Objective:Capture Wei
Successful: No

Sima Yi:
Objective: Defend Wei
Successful: yes

Therefore Sima Yi is a better strategist since he accomplished his goals and Zhuge Liang did not

...

To be fair its hard to defeat Deng Ai.

Ok I'll settle who's the virtuous poster

Rapeshack reprobates:
Objective: rape Lu Lingqi
Successful: No

Dong Zhuo Coalition of Virtue and Prosperity:
Objective: to promote virtue and facilitate productive discussions regarding East-Asian historical emulation stations
Successful: Yes

Therefore etc

That's because they did not pursue his heart

aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FUCK YOU UNEDUCATED ROUNDEYES I'LL MAKE YOU LOVE ME

>I WILL SUPPRESS THE ENEMY
>Throws a fucking bomb

>Successful: No
Are you sure about that?

Rapeshack Pragmatists:
Objective: rape Lu Lingqi & keep the thread alive
Successful: yes/yes [check recommended reading]

Delusional Dong Zhuo Idealists: shitpost about waifus all day and get into a relationship with lingqi
Successful: yes/no

2-1 dong zhuo shitposters BTFO

I'll have you know that Zhuge Liang was eight feet tall and could bench 600 pounds, and that's just his warm ups. (Source: Zhuge Liang's autobiography)
He could totally take Deng Ai any day of the week.

All these rapeshack memes just remind me that there's a bunch of boring gangrape doujins and a couple of vanilla ones with Zhao and no femdom ones of her.

Battle of Changban

Cao Cao
Objective: capture Liu Bei
Successful: no

Liu Bei
Objective: evade capture
Successful: yes

Therefore Liu Bei was the superior general.

>pragmatic about sexually violating the dead rather than learning from their deeds and exploits

With respect to beastly ideals and degeneracy personified, it is clear who abandoned all notions of decency.
With respect to human ideals and virtue personified, it is clear who Heaven would favour.

>pragmatic about sexually violating the dead
she's not dead though.
once agian dong zhuo shitposters bend the facts
shame!

Liu Bei
Objective: Die at the same time as his sworn brothers
Successful: no

Zhuge Liang
Objective: Win a battle desicively
Successful: No

Literally almost anyone else
Objective: Win a battle desicively
Successful: Yes

Therefore Literally almost anyone else was the superior general.

Zhenji
Objective: To be loved by her husband
Successful: no

Lu Lingqi
Objective: Not to be raped by bunch of peons
Successful: no

>this entire thread
I'm fucking dying

Man this this getting tense

The point is that it was easier to defend Wei than to take it, so it's not an even match.

And you can't win the decisive battle if everyone is too scared to give you one.

Sima Yi
Objective: get remembered as anything other than Zhuge Liang's less smart counterpart
Successful: no

Zhuge Liang
Objective: be honored by future generations to the present day
Successful: yes

Ha, I tricked you into reviving this thread, Zhongda. It was my plan all along.

Sima Yi
Objective: get remembered by cool people like me and the football team who have sex with lots of women and have cool fast cars for driving in
Successful: yes

Zhuge Liang
Objective: be remembered by cool people (like me btw) and not by a bunch of loser nerddweebs who can't tell the difference between historical facts and a fucking fairytale dude lmao get fucked nerds
Successful: no

My logic is as flawless as the late Zhuge Liang's

Put that mask back on Kongming, and I'll fuck you like I fucked you at Wuzhang

Zhuge Liang
Objective: be Chinese Jesus
Successful: Amen

Too bad! Getting fucked was all part of his plan!

but me not using a condom wasn't ;)

>Except Zhuge Liang never lost 10,000 soldiers
objectively untrue
>whereas Cao Zhen and Sima Yi had to maintain field armies of over twice Zhuge Liang's size as well as several large garrisons at Chang'an
And Zhuge Liang had to man Hanzhong and maintain a massive supply line, meaning even more men taken from Shu which lead to impoverishment of the country
> Then you have to remember that Zhuge Liang succeeding in taking commanderies and the wheat harvest in the area
I'll give you that, but the area around Tianshui didn't mean much when compared to the completely Zhongyuan and its massive production, together with safe and well-maintained roads, a legacy left by Taizu and his internal policies. The damage wasn't as massive as you make it.

To make it clear, it's not like I don't believe that Zhuge Liang wasn't a good strategist. He just didn't reach the level that allowed him to actually strategically defeat Wei. Returning to the teaching of the Sun clan, a good general first makes sure that he can win, then goes to battle. Zhuge Liang routinely lacked intelligence about Wei's defenses as if he could just stroll into Changan. He did well in his battles, but they never reached the level of Chibi. This battle wasn't only an epitome of the strategic capabilities because of the size of the armies, but because this single confrontation has been prepared for months on multiple fronts, not only gathering men and supplies, and this is why Zhou Yu was the single greatest strategist in the land. Zhuge Liang never prepared to the extent that he did, and thus never managed to truly push Wei back as hard as Gongjin did.

>Kebineng

literally who?

The 10,000 number came from a fake Jin book. All of Zhuge Liang's numbers came from historical fact.

Even then, that says 3,000+, meaning that Sima Gay could have lost more than 10,000. Hell, he probably lost 100,000 knowing him.

>believing a fake story from the book of Jin
Already covered upthread, Simashitter. If Sima Yi ever won such a great victory, you would think it would be mentioned in the SGZ or ZZTJ, but it's not.

>Chibi
Won where Wu had the advantage. Zhuge Liang was fighting Wei on their ground. While he did not succeed in defeating Wei, holding the strategic initiative meant that he prevented Wei from making a concentrated invasion of Shu.

>All of Zhuge Liang's numbers came from historical fact

...

WAIT. Did you just say Wu had the advantage at Chi Bi?

>All of Zhuge Liang's numbers came from historical fact.

>Zhuge Liang
>Knowing to be the biggest liar in ancient China

>you would think it would be mentioned in the SGZ

>the book of historical revisionism
>being accurate
>ever

Not in numbers, but in terrain and experience certainly.

Would you play an Ape Escape Musou?

Cite it, Sima shitter

>Won where Wu had the advantage.
Preparing advantageous circumstances despite numerical inferiority, isn't that the whole point of being a strategist? Wu has maintained this advantage for over 70 years, with a massive border with Wei that could be, and was, attacked from multiple sides by numerically superior forces.

>Zhuge Liang was fighting Wei on their ground.
Then why didn't he fight them where he had the advantage? If he was so great, he could've lead the Wei forces to attack him and decimate them using the favorable terrain, then launch an invasion towards Changan. Seems like a better plan since at least it wouldn't allow the Wei forces to dig in and wait out the battle.

OK FAGGOTS, SAY 5 (FIVE) NICE THINGS ABOUT ZHUGE LIANG

>loli spats.jpg

You know I would

No wonder Yue Ying fucked Wei Yan. Her husband was a lying manlet.

Emu War Musou anybody?

He was the best historian Shu had
He had the best facial hair in Shu
He helped reveal Liu Bei for the family-killer he was by taking Jing and the Riverlands from his family
He helped bring the downfall of Shu with his failed campaigns
The War Fan is a decently cool weapon.

>cool nickname
>cool wheelchair
>cool feather fan
>invented wheelbarrow and flamethrower
>pioneered shitposting by insulting a dude to death

If you recall, that is quite similar to the plan Jiang Wei attempted to use against Zhong Hui's invasion, so we can say you are no better at being an armchair strategist than Jiang Wei was as an actual strategist.

Zhuge Liang understood that allowing Wei to mass its forces in a decisive invasion would only invite disaster, because Wei could concentrate its forces at any points of defense and still have plenty of troops left over to win any decisive engagement--which was exactly what happened in Zhong Hui's invasion. Jiang Wei placed garrisons in forts that he assumed Zhong Hui would be held up at because, generally, you do not want strong enemy forces at your rear; then Jiang Wei would lead the army and pincer Zhong Hui between the forts and his own army. However, because Zhong Hui had such numbers, he was able to detach forces to siege the forts and continue on. The strategic defensive spelled Shu's doom.

Because Zhuge Liang knew that Wei's power would only grow with time relative to the smaller Shu, his best chance was to take the strategic initiative and attack. In doing so, he put Wei forces off balance for years, punching far above his weight.

Practice War Games against an unpredictable opponent, thereby honing your ability to think on the fly, react to unprecedented situations, and bullshit your way to victory.

>All this dirty Shu propaganda
I hope you guys not going to fall for it

By the time of Zhong Hui's invasion, Shu was internally broken, Jiang Wei's defense plans weren't implemented completely and he couldn't man all the posts prepared because Huang Hao controlled the court. Before the Northern Campaigns, the only war that Bashu saw was the Zhang Lu's invasion and the takeover by Liu Bei. Drawing comparison between Shu then and during its fall is a mistake.

If his goal was harassment tactics, they aren't usually conducted with the whole army, but with small but mobile forces that can inflict damage to the enemy infrastructure and retreat while avoiding the enemy forces. With the size difference, Shu would need to kill 10 wei soldiers for each one they lost, but the invasion plans where hasty and never accounted for that. Zhuge Liang was a better tactician than strategist, a better civil officer than tactician and his biggest mistake was probably not removing Liu Shan from power, since he'd be at his best in his position.

Internet Musou, all the officers are internet celebrities and memes

Shu is a pants optional country