TFW 22 years old loser

That's idiotic.

I think you are downplaying the effects of testosterone. I mean it's not like it's literally what makes men, men....

You know women have t right?

Around 1/10th or even lower than that of an average man's, yes.

>After 5 years of training hard, then steroids might be an option.

Probably the soundest piece of advice I have seen on Biz for a long time... and its not even related to bizness

Remember... Taking steroids stays in your system forever as it mutates cells... Can disform your offspring/ Miscarriages (mostly while your on it) and makes it HIGHLY likely for you to have a heart attack in the very near future

Sauce? Close family member died in his early 20s... Openly used steroids from 18, tried for kids from 20 onwards couldn't have them... We all linked it to the steroid usage... Another relative not related to previous family member took steroids from early age... had 2 heart attacks in his 20s... survived both... now at 30, saying steroids worst thing he ever did!

>Remember... Taking steroids stays in your system forever as it mutates cells... Can disform your offspring/ Miscarriages (mostly while your on it) and makes it HIGHLY likely for you to have a heart attack in the very near future

[citation needed]

>Sauce? Close family member died in his early 20s... Openly used steroids from 18, tried for kids from 20 onwards couldn't have them... We all linked it to the steroid usage... Another relative not related to previous family member took steroids from early age... had 2 heart attacks in his 20s... survived both... now at 30, saying steroids worst thing he ever did!

That's idiotic.

What about
1) His other lifestyle choices
2) Pre-existing conditions
3) What compounds did he use, what doses?
4) Family history of health problems

Kind of dumb to lump all of them under one umbrella. You sound pretty uneducated on the matter.

I don't need to cite anything really... Google is a pretty common feature that people use these days my good friend

I'm not getting into a prolonged debate about... Pro-steroids vs Anti-steroids... Its not a debate... its been proven, by the government... Its illegal because its fucking dangerous to health!

>Inb4 Itz unly dungerus if missused

Any usage of it is fucking miss-use its an unnatural growth hormone, it makes parts of your body grow abnormally... ABNORMAL just so you know means; not fucking normal.

Lol you have retarded family members.

Don't blame your inadequacies on low test you fucking faggot. You are in all likelihood not low testosterone unless you've been to an endocrinologist.

>Google is a pretty common feature that people use these days my good friend

Yeah and the research doesn't agree with you.

>Its not a debate... its been proven, by the government...
But it hasn't though.

>Its illegal because its fucking dangerous to health!

>Any usage of it is fucking miss-use its an unnatural growth hormone, it makes parts of your body grow abnormally... ABNORMAL just so you know means; not fucking normal.

Even if you're deficient in it?

That's fucking retarded. You don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about.

>Any usage of it is miss-use
Why do doctors prescribe it to people who's body doesn't produce it naturally? Why is it prescribed to people with AIDS?

You know testosterone wasn't invented by bodybuilders, but as medicine, right?

>TFW 22 years old loser
>TFW never graduated highschool
>TFW no drivers license
>TFW shitty, minimum wage part time job
>TFW fat dyel
>TFW low testosterone
>TFW kissless virgin
>TFW trying to lift but it's hardly working

you can literally change all that in like 1 year max - how the fuck is this a problem.
>TFW low testosterone
did you get tested? in case you've not you're not low test

>You are in all likelihood not low testosterone unless you've been to an endocrinologist.

Yeah i guess my 370 ng/dl total testosterone blood work is just a meme.

i mean it's just barely in range and far below median for my agegroup. No problems here! Guess it's normal to have no facial hair, weak sex-drive, periods of depression, no drive, trouble with making muscle gains

fuck you faggot

If your fat and can't even lift baby weights you shouldn't be thinking of steriods.

eat high testosterone diet, sleep well, lift heavy weights, do deadlifts and squats, make your back massive with wide arm pull ups with incremental difficulty, eat high fat high protien low carbs to stay in ketosis, don't waster time looking at a computer screen and be constantly doing something productive!

Start reading books for the job field you want go into, save money from your part time job to fund whatever your gonna do next.

But most important of all is mindset.

Don't be a bitch.

What would a bitch do? Do the opposite.

>LE XD UR JUST MAKING IT UP HEHEHEHE

pic related: my fucking bloodwork

that is by far not a deficit

>falls within the clinically defined range of normal test
>low test
>pick one

Stop being a bitch. You ever think of dealing with your problems instead of blaming them on factors outside your control?

It is when you consider that it counts men from 18-70

It's far below the median for my age group of 18-25. How the fuck is that "normal"?

how about you look at the median levels of men

Besides, top endocrinologists admit it's more about treating symptoms than just blood levels. Different people function better on different levels of testosterone, for some men it's too low (like me, who has virtually every textbook symptom of low test)

also
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1117056

thats why you take ranges in medicine and not median/avg etc.

>Stop being a bitch. You ever think of dealing with your problems instead of blaming them on factors outside your control?

A little funny when you can read about countless (anecdotal) stories of people going from test levels around mine to high-range of physiological, or even supraphysiological and having a complete 180* in how they felt

You really seem to underestimate how much of an effect hormones have on people

That doesn't work when you take such a wide fucking range.

The range for "healthy" testosterone levels is literally 300-1200ng/dl, that's idiotic. It takes into account 18 year olds who should have healthy and finely operating HYPOTHALMIC-PITUITARY-TESTICULAR AXIXES AND

70 YEAR OLD MEN WHO ARE CLOSE TO DEATH. How is that a reasonable range???!!!

300 can be perfectly fine as can 1200ng

problems are usually when you have like 300 normal and then some tumor in your balls makes it produce 1200

ITS still in the range - but you have to compare it on a time scale with your other values. Thats why you go to a doctor and don't ask fucking Veeky Forums or Veeky Forums for diagnosis

Nah man! He needs a bogeyman to blame for his issues!

They don't give a shit dude.

I bring up the problem, doctor looks at it and says "Lol it's in range ur good". totally ignores my problems, anecdotal and even clinical research.

And my experience isn't uncommon. Tons of men voice their experiences about this and how hard it is to get treated

oh yeah totaly

hormones don't have any effect on peoples' motivation or anything XD

also
>How is that a reasonable range???!!!

you can be 80 years old and still have one or the other perfectly intact organ so i see no problem there. That non spreading braintumor that killed you won't neccessarily make EVERY other organ fail

>ITS still in the range - but you have to compare it on a time scale with your other values.

The point is that the range is broken.

It counts men all the way from 18-70. When it should be a range OF MEN 18-25, who are healthy.

a 22 year old should not have testosterone levels equal to the those of the median elderly man, he's going to feel like that old man.

wat

not sure what you're trying to say by that because it makes no sense but testosterone levels drop off quite significantly per year after about 30-40. Why is it smart to compare younger men on such a wide scale?

you actually do know what you must do to achieve your goals. you realize this is hard but you realize what has to be done. how can you possibly blame that on anything besides your own motivation. It's not like you are missing a leg or something that makes it impossible for you to achieve said goals. That testosterone story in the WORST CASE just makes it harder for you than for some others....
but guess what - the more sweat and tears you give for your goals the more you will become what you are aspiring

>The point is that the range is broken.
you seem to misunderstand a) the point of having a range and b) how to use said range as diagnosis tool

you seem to imply that all men have the same treshold of some kind after which we are "high-T" and some magic switch gets flipped inside your brain
you know this value varies from human to human greatly. And since there is no way to say "this is optimum level" you therefore need to consider ranges of blood values (like in any other parameter you can get tested)

to cont.

you can find some person X with 1/2 T-levels of person Y while having X having no symptomes of lowtest while Y is having them. this not only works with test but pretty much any standard parameter - correct me if i miss something critical.

long story short.
trust your doc - if you don't trust your doc look for another doc you can trust.

>you seem to imply that all men have the same treshold of some kind after which we are "high-T" and some magic switch gets flipped inside your brain

Obviously it varies but the point is that the range should be tethered to your age group, when it comes to hormones.

How does that not make sense?

The fact is that most doctors don't give a shit, or don't know any better.

You tell them you're having every textbook symptom of low-test, they respond with "Lol ur in range, I don't care about your symptoms, your levels compared to the median male in your agegroup either. muh paper says you're in range so you're in range".

I guess it makes sense why men find it easier to just buy the shit online for a fraction of the cost and no need for prescription or dealing with fucking doctors.

You failed at the most important part.

Don't be a bitch.

>you actually do know what you must do to achieve your goals

Yeah I do know.

Buy several vials of testosterone enanthate online and get started.

Thanks. Maybe I'll even get a prescription by purposely bombing my test scores before the blood work, thanks for the tip, man.

you still are in range when considering your age group

>you still are in range when considering your age group

but i'm not.

Pic related.

if u can't read statistics you shouldn't try to soak answers out of them. I know where you got this picture from. Read the whole goddamn paper and cite the right statistic. Maybe then you will understand

It literally agrees with what i'm saying.

menshormonalhealth.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html

Depending on the lab your doctor uses, male testosterone levels typically range between 250ng/dl and 850 ng/dl.

As you may well imagine, these ranges are not set to optimal levels. They are from a cross section of men aged 20 to 80; many of whom may be sick or diseased, from a lifetime of unhealthy habits.

If your blood work arrives, and your doctor happens to refuse treatment - even though your levels are close to the bottom of the range; then a gentle reminder of what optimal health entails may be in order.

If you kindly point out, you have the T levels of a sick 80 year old (and feel like one at that); hopefully your doctor will come around.

Post a legit university research paper or medical journal, not a website with as much credentials as PEGym

About what?

Do you not see the citation in the chart? Do you think they just made it up?

Oh jesus, OP do you really think testosterone is the reason why you're big fat loser?

Oh pls just kill yourself already.

>Unpublished findings
Lol OK

>I'm low-test as fuck, I feel like it's the only option now. It would probably fix everything else too.

So testosterone made you drop out of high school? Testosterone prohibited you to get up from your big fat lazy ass to get a drivers license? Testosterone made you eat unhealthy and kept you from going to the gym?

Just accept that your a total failure and that it's your fault. If you keep blaming nature for your failures you will never make it.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4190174/

>Our results suggest that the reported increase in the proportion of hypogonadal men with increasing age can be attributed to the increase in variance of testosterone levels with increasing age, as opposed to an age-related decline in testosterone levels for the population as a whole[...]We find no evidence that TT declines in the average case after the age of 40 years for ageing males

too lazy to quote another 500 things
just read the paper
your free levels are totally fine and only your total is on the lower end of the scale
if u actually knew what FREE TEST and TEST means you would 100% see why no doctor with his brain intact would make you take "supplements" or roids or w/e the fuck you think will sort out your problem(s)

whats your SHGB value?
E2 value?

you seem to underestimate how complex your body is.

Keep lifting.
Try to eat better food. Fresh produce only and food you've cooked from scratch yourself.
Drink only water, no soda or other shit laden with sugar and caffeine.
Find a course that will allow you to re-do your highschool.
Do it well.
Get into college or a trade (trade perferable as college is a meme)

???

Profit

Forget about sex and women for now. It'll come when you've got bux. If it bothers you that much, go fuck a hooker.

Im curious, how do you know youre low test?
Have you had your test tested?

nvmd i saw this has already been discussed

>tfw you realize most of Veeky Forums posters who have their life in check are also Veeky Forums posters

who would have thought that the insane discipline, motivation and solid work ethic needed to achieve a shredded body would translate well into the business world ?

>ITT: OP is a massive faggot

E2 a little high but in range, shbg idk

Either way I'm buying testosterone enanthate on the internet. Let's see if it makes a difference.

OP YOURE A FAGGOT

JUST IGNORE EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE DOCTORS, AND TAKE STEROIDS UNTIL YOURE INFERTILE AND HAVE A HEAT ATTACK

also
FUCK OFF TO

pretty sure taking a year off-time on heroin is less harmful then what you are planning to do but go ahead.
what makes me pretty mad is that people like you get on the same transplantation waiting list that orderly people get on.
you should be banned life-time from certain procedures just so people like you one time understand there are consequences of your behaviour.

>Let's see if it makes a difference.

you know there is this thing in biochemistry called FEEDBACK

if u permanently supply your body with chemical X that he usually produces in the rate Y ng/day -> that rate Y will decrease over time.
now think about what Y is in your equation.

Why is it less harmful? Why do you think so?

>transplantation
KEK
Transplant for what? Are you fucking retarded?

You are so dumb and don't know what you're talking about.

Do androgen receptors down-regulate?

No.In fact, supraphysiological levels of androgens has actually been shown to up-regulate the number of receptors.

thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation

Also lol @ banning people from medical procedures for wanting optimal testosterone levels.

So I can go to a convenience store RIGHT NOW, buy cigarettes and alcohol and have a jolly old time destroying my health and still be fine according to you, but wanting to feel like a man and maybe even build some muscle is too wrong and awful?

You faggots are a joke.

KYS WITH YOUR STEROIDS FAGGOT

JUST DO IT

>shown to up-regulate the number of receptors.
honestly are you stupid? what do you think happens when your body produces a substance and you now have MORE receptors to be filled by the same amount of substance. You see where this is goin?
>Why is it less harmful? Why do you think so?
because clean synthetic opioids aren't toxic for your organs and have relatively low halflife time
also there exists antagonists like naloxon.
>buy cigarettes and alcohol and have a jolly old time destroying my health and still be fine according to you
nope - should be on the same list as you should be on
> but wanting to feel like a man and maybe even build some muscle is too wrong and awful?
you haven't done one goddamn thing in your life that shows you have dedication (protip you need that shit) to ANY of your goals. Instead you try to blame it on 1 fucking parameter (out of 3784984568345697834568)
enjoy your livertumors

>livertumors

Ah yes, good meme

Because that totally happens from brief use and because I OBVIOUSLY won't be getting blood work done before, during and after this 16 week testosterone enanthate cycle I am going to be taking on.

Lmfao kys

This board is retarded and pathetic. Shouldn't you tell me like the guy above? - his "family member" tried one steroid then had 3 consecutive strokes and heart attacks. Lol

You sound like reefer madness

LOWTEST FAGGOT

WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE

YOU HAVE STEROIDS TO GO BUY

While youre at it, go ask what they think of your plan. Youll fit right in there

>Because that totally happens from brief use and

[...]More importantly, therapy with anabolic steroids is linked to a distinctive form of acute cholestasis. The liver injury generally arises within 1 to 4 months of starting therapy [...]
Tumors are typically found after 5 to 15 years of use, but onset within 2 years of starting therapy with testerosterone esters has been described

>The androgens act by engagement of intracellular androgenic steroid receptors which are translocated to the nucleus and attach to androgen response elements on DNA inducing a cassette of androgen stimulated genes that are important in cell growth and development. An unregulated growth stimulus to hepatocytes is the likely cause of nodular regeneration and hepatic tumors related to anabolic steroid use.

>blood work
ihavenowordsforthis.jpg
good luck - you will need it

Ye sorry

Maybe if my thread was pertaining to day trading like an idiot or buying shitcoind it'd be more relevant

That's for oral steroids, which I will never be using.

>I have no word for this
Why? Because you're a fucking idiot?

You can tell health problems through blood work. If my levels are out of range I'll know I need to dial it back.

Are you so stupid you think all of a sudden your liver explodes and you get multiple heart attacks and then die?

You have blood markers. Blood work shows damage before the symptoms come up.

Dumb faggot

Literally everyone has told you that youre wrong (including your actual fucking doctors) and WHY your wrong, fucking Dumbass.

You better come back here and tell us how much you fucked up later Faggot, unless you literally kys

You make shitcoiners look smart

>That's for oral steroids, which I will never be using.

I'll have that written on your grave stone if you don't mind. Hell, i'd even pay every cent of it.

>Why? Because you're a fucking idiot?
yet 1 row later
"If my levels are out of range I'll know I need to dial it back."
That's the way you go with cancer. LIKE LITERALLY ARE YOU THINKING:
"You can get exposed to cancerogen stuff but in the end it's no problem as long as you reduce the exposition in time"

i dunno - i learned concepts in school in 12th grade biology/chemistry that would show you how wrong you are. But instead of relying on those concepts made for 12 year olds you get handed out one paper after another saying basicly you are fucking retarded.
all you then do is post another "steroidblog" and think this is science.

honestly i shouldn't reply anymore as i'm hindering natural selection at this point.

Except they haven't and you're retarded

>dude ur gonna, like, totally get 10 heart attacks and die! I know because my friend's friend's friend took a steroid with a marijuana and he died! Idk what compounds, dosage or anything else tho

Liver damage is from long term abuse of oral steroids, considering that's where they need to pass through you fucking idiot

I KBIW I'm arguing with an idiot, but I can't stop replying. I am astonished that Veeky Forums is this stupid. You are a fucking imbecile

>like u r thinking
NO FUCKING RETARD

IF I USE THEM AND GET BLOOD WORK DONE AND SEE LEVELS OUT OF RANGE

I SEE MY HEAD ANX CONSIDER THAT MAYBE THIS IS A PRECURSOR FOR PROBLEMS. SO I FIX IT

YOU FUXKUNG SHITSTAIN

You stupid fuck

I don't even have words for how retarded you are.

>it's not science

THERE'S NO RESEARCH TO SUPPORT ANY OF YOUR CLAIMS

You fucking moron

ask yourself. what possible intention could EVERYONE share so everyone has the same answer for your question? Like

a) The-Great-Steroid-Conspiracy (incl. every doc, pubmed and your friendly Veeky Forumsnessman)
b) People caring about each others health

now if u think a) then you should really see a doctor but not about your t-levels

you can fix half of those things on your list within a month

It's not everyone, it's uneducated people. People are shown how bad it is in media (read: ANY steroid usage is shown as making you a homicidal maniac. Irregardless of whether it be therapeutic doses or professional bodybuilder doses)

When you actually look at the research you cannot find significant risks if you don't have pre-existing conditions and live an otherwise healthy lifesttle.
And by healthy lifestyle I mean regularly exercise (duh), eat well and track your food, be at a healthy bodyfat %, monitor regular blood work, do cardio etc.

It's just not shown to cause any serious problems.

It hasn't been proven. You'll have tremendous difficulty finding that it has. In fact I welcome you to start posting studies you find so I laugh at you by pointing out the tremendously low population size, issues in methodology or inconclusive findings.

First of all Faggot, Im not the "friend" guy. Im the guy that isnt coddling you and saying that if you want to kys, just fucking do it. Its not going to negatively impact anyone since youre a worthless, insignificant, low test Faggot.

Second, this is you in this thread:
>Could I be wrong?
>No! EVERYONE ELSE must be wrong!

>Appeal to majority

Ah yes. If a bunch of retards say it must be true

>if you want to kys
I don't and have never felt a desire for suicide before, never will either

Then go ahead and do it Faggot.

Just come back and post results so we all can laugh at how much you fuck up

Why would I fuck up?

There's countless stories or how much it turned peoples lives around.

When I get started I won't even come to Veeky Forums anymore. No point talking to losers, not too interested in penny stocks or why everyone who isn't YouTube celebrity is a cuckold.

This board is a joke

If you have it all figured out, why are you asking a chinese anime forum for life advice?

>This board is a joke
>Says the Faggot that came to a business board for health advice

I forgot how retarded you idiots were

On Veeky Forums I got actually good advice, even about roids. You idiots are worthless, maybe if I had a new Pepecoin to shill you'd be of more value

This board is trash.
>make actual thread
>everyone ignores it

>make thread about the latest penny coin
>1000 replies interested in losing their Mommy's allowance

dude I thought you were a depressed NEET why you playing so armed & dangerous now?

take that fury and direct it toward solving your problems eh?

Getting into the right mindset

>Doesnt know how to weed out good info from shit
Might want to stay off there internet, period.

>Thinks making one of the daily "my life sucks because Im a pussy bitch, tell me all the answers" threads is an "actual thread"
>Thinks that youre going to get good HEALTH advice on /BIZ, but were the retards
>Openly rejects any friendly advice contradictary to pre-determined beliefs and becomes hostile
Yes, I was hostile too but I came in late and after reading the thread, you just need a swift kick in the ass

>good info

The good info here is don't waste time on this shithole

Keep thinking that, less competition. Youre right that every penny stock and crypto thread is part of the huge shit pile.

Competing for what exactly lol

Half this board is NEET or in college.

>This board is a joke

>TFW 22 years old loser
>TFW never graduated highschool
>TFW no drivers license
>TFW shitty, minimum wage part time job
>TFW fat dyel
>TFW low testosterone
>TFW kissless virgin
>TFW trying to lift but it's hardly working

Look, there isn't anything really we can do for you. This board is about business, you haven't even started being a functioning adult yet. That's not our concern. Get off your lazy ass and actually do something and when you come back as an actual functioning human being we can talk about careers, business and all that stuff that frankly, is way out of reach for you at this point.

Most importantly, change your attitude. I'm an employer and honestly I've never called anybody with an attitude like your's back.

>this board is about business

What business is it about? Do you honestly believe that?

This board was created as a containment board for cryptocurrencies.

>I'm an employer

Being an assistant manager at BurgerKing doesn't count as an employer.

Less people taking niche markets and services away. Obviously it wouldnt matter if a handful of more people knew what to look for, but itd be flooded if /biz wasnt so full of shit that its hard to find, pretty much impossible as a newfag.

Anything with the words investing or trading in it is a shit thread. The only thing worth the average mans time are long term index funds.

And you can even get good personal device if theres anyone decent online, but only if youre showing a willingness to change (as in, not a waste of time to give advice to), and you arent trying to scapegoat your problems (which is also where your thread went wrong)

Nope actual business owner who might just sit in front of you at some time in the future while you're sweating your balls off trying to explain why you dropped out of high school.

I've seen kids like you many times before, either they get a grip and turn their life upside-down or they will work minimum wage for the rest of their life.

Ye

How's that blog plastered in ads coming along?

Real niche market LOL

Drop shipping on eBay doesn't count as a business.

Minimum wage is more than you make.

Wrong and wrong, way to newfag it up

This is exactly why youre getting shit on.
Why would anyone give you advice?

Again, you're making assumptions, actual business with 180 employees. And I'm pretty sure I made more money in the last 2 weeks than you in your entire miserable life.

Why would I care to take advice from you?

>180 employees

You and Pajeet doesn't add up to 180.

how much do you make working that part time job and for how long did you work there?

No no no, you were never going to get advice from ME. You ruined that before I showed up by being a Faggot to everyone else. You clearly showed that you didnt want advice, you only want confirmation. Thats why I tried the swift kick in the ass approach. Now Im just here because Im bored at work and none of the good threads are moving.

Im saying why would ANYONE give you advice with the shitshow youre putting on in this thread?

this board is useless anyways

One of the worst sources of information. What can i get from here that I can't get from literally any other medium of information?

- youtube channels
- personal finance blogs
- books on finance/econ/accounting/whatever
- investopedia
- wikis for finance

what does this board even offer someone?

>How does talking to real people compare to doing self research?
The fuck? You really cant figure out the answer to that?

real retards more like

half this board is unemployed. what's the point of being here at all?

I'm actually a business person and I'm telling you, you're a failure and it's entirely your fault. But it seems like you don't wanne talk to me so yeah, what's the point of you being here at all?