Cash for clunkers

Did cash for clunkers ruin the used car market?

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youtube.com/watch?v=dzz4DjUnPJk
jalopnik.com/5365954/ten-most-exotic-cars-destroyed-by-cash-for-clunkers/
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no, safety and emissions regulations did

yes

cash and clunkers did you libtard dipshit.

Not anymore it was 10 years ago scraping 15 years old cars back then.

Yes. And it sent your moms Olds Cutlass to the shredder. I never got to clean my used rubbers from the back seat.

why do you think "clunkers" became a thing? if they were worth fixing people would fix them, not scrap them

We're not getting back those 90s cars, dummy.

700,000 cars is a drop in the bucket. The US scraps around 12 million annually so C4C didn't do shit.

I remember seeing a list on here 2 years ago or so of the cars scraped
I remember seeing a bunch of ek hatches,a few 95 supras, and a couple of 300z tt, any one have the list?

Further, everybody should be pissed that we spent an average of $3500 per scrapped car. Basically the US taxpayer paid about $1500/ton for scrap steel.

All I remember is that they killed a Syclone.

RIP

youtube.com/watch?v=dzz4DjUnPJk

Sure didn't help.
But thanks to the economy slowly crashing, the used car market will take a nose dive.
See heavy industrial machinery and sales; usually the leadingg signal to a crash and its been downhill for a while. Last thing to hit is generally consumer goods.
Enjoi

>if they were worth fixing people would fix them, not scrap them

We had a very similar scheme here in the UK called "the scrappage scheme". You trade in your car and you get a £5000 voucher for a new car.

People weren't scrapping shitboxes, they were scrapping cars in good, running condition because they were worth less than 5 grand. All kinds of fantastic cars, relatively new hatchbacks, high milage mercs, offroad trucks with bad bodywork but solid engines etc were all scrapped so their owners could get a new Ford Focus.

The used car market is only just starting to recover, for years it was nearly impossible to find a cheap used car that wasn't beat to shit or hideously overpriced

It's absolutely ridiculous.
Let's take perfectly good running cars out of the market (have fun finding something affordable poor people lmao) so people will buy a NEW car and """stimulate""" the economy.
Government intervention always fails.

oh i was confused. i thought this was some cash incentive for new car buyers to trade in whatever they had. not some federally subsidized scrapping thing
i'm not from usa or uk

The (((Big Three))) sure liked it.

Yes.

Please dont post the videos.

I don't really even like old Caprices but FUCK that pisses me off.

>DELET

It eliminated good cars for younger/poorer buyers. It did not increase sales of new cars, it just got people who were going to buy anyway to do so slightly sooner. Then new car sales "slumped" later in the year because nobody wanted to buy.

All in all, it did more bad than good since nothing was gained.

...

Exactly.
Good way to make the poor poorer and to encourage people to make bad economic decisions in order to prop up the economy and stimulate it.
All at the tax payers expense since it's from the fed. So you're paying for it anyways :^)
Central planning, every body.

In the US, if you had a car that didn't meet some random fuel economy figure, you could trade it in at any dealership for $4500 towards a new car. Paid for the government and taxpayers.

It basically took a lot of the good used cars off the market and encouraged people to buy new cars even though they couldn't really afford it.

According to the wikipedia article the program as a whole was about the same as setting 1.4 billion dollars on fire. I'm fairly liberal but god dammit that was so fucking retarded.

i get it now. very short sighted and hyper consumerist. not eco or socially friendly at all.
i was thinking this was just a dealer incentive where they give you way more than your car is worth in trade in value and then just do whatever they want with it, usually sell it at auction.
that's what they do where i live, except safety and emission standards are ridiculously high so a lot of old beaters still get scrapped because they're not worth bringing up to code

It got a lot of garbage off the road and out of the market. The days of the 300 dollar car were great but also pretty fucked. Used priced were lower overall but anything that wasn't a dogshit plymouth was selling at a premium.

Bullshit. It got rid of perfectly fine cars instead of the usual wrecked or non-running ones that get scrapped.

This

Whenever the government practices price fixing it's a symptom of socialism creeping over the country... and that doesn't work. If your car is worth $2000 but the government is willing to give you $5000 of someone else's money for it, of course you'd take the 5k. But if more and more people did this it would essentially destroy the economy

next time you can't find a nice cheap shitbox you can thank king nigger. it's literally one of the first the retard did.

Yep. Getting the crap people went crazy for getting $4500 for 10 years ago when it was essentially scrap already doesn't affect us now,

That 99 Blazer with the failing transmission and leaky head gasket was going to be in the scrap yard soon anyway. The effect today is nil.

It got rid of the barely running ones that people limped in. If the cars were worth more, then the dealers would have purchased them outside of C4C and resold for profit. If it wasn't worth $4500 10 years ago, It would have been scrap today anyway.

Used cars were so good, plentiful, and cheap. Nobody was buying new cars. You could buy good condition V8 muscle cars for $3k back then. Decent first car for under $2k.

Yes

The grand irony being the architects behind it had hopped it would boost the sale of US domestic vehicles (The Big 3), meanwhile Honda, Toyota, Kia/Hyundai, and Nissan saw the greatest boost. In fact Toyota took in more "clunkers" than any other automaker

Exactly. It didn't get everyone to go down and buy a new car because even after the $4,500, not everyone could still afford to buy a new car. Most people rolling in used cars can't afford to finance >$10K.

States with inspections do far more to hurt the used car market than anything else. I literally got a truck for free when my old man couldn't get it to pass inspection where he lives. Where he is, used cars sell 3-4 times what they go for here. My bro bought a truck for a few thousand. Here, that same truck would sell for about $500.

it did at the time, but 9 years later the market has rebounded. you can now once again buy a car that runs fine for 500 bucks.

it's rebounded in some places, but not all.

The lasting legacy is that C4C combined with the recession opened the floodgates for Buy Here, Pay Here dealerships to just be fucking everywhere now

I get it man. like I said in the other thread, I work in refi.

you know all those boges that where tier 3 and 4 and just genuinely stupid? it's long enough in that they realized they can't afford those cars and come to us to refi. I had a guy two days ago who's payoff 4 months later from the date of purchase is actually higher than the line 5 he left the dealership with, purely because of his retarded decisions and credit.

It is amazing working in basically what is an F&I office, I am learning so much about how stupid some people are, and how much of a PITA it is to get product into the hands of someone who has good credit and decision making.

>dat sub-prime car loan bubble thats lurking in the shadows

I see it coming.

what absolutely floors me is how some ultra sub prime individuals with like low 400 ficos still manage to get loans.

BTW what are you doing nowadays?

And destroying the shitbox market

well it was intended to stoke new car sales, which it did, but it had catastrophic effects on those hit hardest by the recession as they could neither afford a new car, and all of the shitboxes that they would have bought for dirt cheap ended up getting crushed or being sold for the price that they would be traded in for at cash for clunkers.

overnight, your 93 civic hatch with a few simple mods went from being worth 500 dollars to 4500 dollars. That doesn't help when the people that rely on 500 dollar cars are now living by the skin of their teeth.

Craigslist shitboxes 4ever.
I have had 3 cars in 2 years and have paid less than 2000 in total

>what absolutely floors me is how some ultra sub prime individuals with like low 400 ficos still manage to get loans.
Lol, I used to be the guy getting those people loans, so in that regard, can't say I am surprised at all, pic very related

>BTW what are you doing nowadays?
Finished my masters, got a nice Managment gig at an IT company here in NC.

Why do humans have to be greedy fucks

It's pure and simple animal nature. Why do you think squirrels hoard nuts and dogs eat all that they can?

>Lol, I used to be the guy getting those people loans, so in that regard, can't say I am surprised at all, pic very related
I do that now, just over the phone.

lowest I have seen so far being a 346. she had 9 trade lines and all of them were derog immediately, and all where maxed out consistently.

on the other hand, I just an 899 fico. That was impressive. congrats on the degree.

They also killed a DB7

At one point in time I had a damn near full list of everything they "officially" killed in C4C. It was so damn depressing

Pls gib special stories bundle

jalopnik.com/5365954/ten-most-exotic-cars-destroyed-by-cash-for-clunkers/

Never fucking heard of a LaForza until now.

RIP Bentley Conti R and Aston DB7 Volante

Explain this clash for clunkers shit for a non-american

Pretty much the same thing. $4Clunk got rid of most exempt vehicles Cia (now) 1992 and older in most states.

Old shitty cars of no value and that were dangerous were offered to be scrapped for $4500

Except this literally killed most of the cheap used car market. Plus some dipnut traded in a DB7 volante and some other exotics. It was dumb and pointless really.

A little over 8 years ago the economy was in a glut, the Obama administration came up with an idea to both stimulate the New Car market as well as get rid of a lot cars with poor MPG and high polluters.

The jest of it was that you would bring your old car in (had to before a certain year and under a certain mpg threshold) and would get a rebate towards a newer car with better MPG's, the deal was that the dealer had to destroy the engines in the cars turned in and then sold for scrap.

What happened was, it turned into a shit show with a lot of good decent working cars (and even quite a few that got decent MPGs) that would've been better off resold to poorer consumers were destroyed and the market prices on used cars shot up significantly for the next 3 or 4 years because of a perceived shortage.

Then on top of that a few Dealerships got wise and were taking in good cars they could make money off of, shuffling them around and not destroying them and defeating the purpose of the whole program in the first place.

Nobody was buying new cars, used cars were so plenty and good for under $3k the auto makers started crying about it. So the government said they'll pay $4500 for any car you brought in for trade on a new car. That traded in car MUST have it's engine froze and the car completely destroyed.

Except people are idiots

>Blazer

deserved it, the world is better without them

now its a bummer that a lot of the Broncos were lost to it

Liberals need to learn humility. They're fucking retarded, not only are their ends always fucking wrong, their means aren't even an effective way of achieving them.

I don't know what needs to be done to solve the liberal problem, but somebody needs to stop this madness.

>car completely destroyed.

Most were sent to scrap yards and were parted out.

If they had been flat destroyed then Scrap yards would've been up in arms about that shit becuase that would've jacked up prices on scrap, destroying their business.

>hurr muh liberals

Take your ass back to /pol/ we don't want you tracking that shit on your shoes in here.

They got a GNX too. Yep a fucking GNX, not even a T type or GN but a fucking GNX

maybe if you didn't aggressively try to ruin anything fun, you wouldn't be hated by the rest of the male population

So are they just pouring water into the engine then running it until it dies? Isn't scrapping going to make the engine FUBAR anyway?

>we
take your candy ass back to tumblr, you leftist parasite. your kind isn't welcome here.

Its silica mix called liquid glass, when put into an engine it chews up the bearings.

>Assuming I'm a bus riding liberal

I probably own more cars than you do, and probably pollute more too. Try again.

Here's the full list of trade ins. It'll break your heart.

1987 Buick ASC GNX
1997 Aston Martin DB7 Volante
1997 Bentley Continental R
1989 20th Anniversary Pontiac Trans Am
1992 GMC Typhoon (no!)
1985 Audi Quattro
1992 BMW 850i
2006 Audi A4 Convertible
2006 Cadillac STS
2008 Foose F-150 (2)
2007 GMC Acadias (3)
2008 Hyundai Accent (see above)
2006 Nissan 350Z Roadster
2006 Roush Stage 3 F-150 (2)
2006 Toyota Corolla
2005 Mazda RX-8
2002 Kia Spectra
1988 Aurora Cobra kit car
1996 Buick Funeral Coaches/Hearses
1987 Duntov GT
1987 Excalibur Autos Phaeton
1990 Honda CRX (Less than 18 mpg?)
1985 Maserati Quattroporte
1999 Mercedes C43 AMG
1985 TVR 280i convertible

Groupings
(18) Audi S4 and S6
(31) AM General postal vehicles
(24) Alfa Romeo 164
(60) AMC Eagle
(53) Audi A8
(3,500+) BMWs including an M3, M5, Z3, 850i and (3) 740il Protection
(52) Cadillac Allante
(15) Cadillac Commercial Chassis/Limousines
(1,007) Chevy Camaro
(97) Chevy Corvette
(5) AWD Chrysler 300
(17) Chrysler Conquest
(39) Chrysler TC by Maserati
(3) Dodge Conquest
(6) Dodge Daytona
(210) Dodge Stealth
(16) Eagle Talon
(2) Federal Coach Lincoln Limo
(2) Ford Aspire (didn't these things get like 30 mpg?)
(855) Ford Crown Victoria CNG
(917) Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor
(14) USPS Ford Explorer
(24) Ford F-150 SVT Lightning
(1,611) Ford Mustang (so Mustang beats Camaro here)
(107) Ford Taurus SHO (don't tell Neff)
(15) Isuzu Vehicross
(1,047) Jaguars including (9) XJR, (2) XK8 and (96) XJS
(3) Laforza SUV
(6) Maseratis including a Biturbo and the 1985 Quattroporte
(373) Mazda RX-7
(5,000+) Mercedes-Benz including (142) SL, (3) S600, a 1994 E500, a 1992 500E, 1995 C36 and 1999 C43
(26) Merkur Scorpio and (21) XR4Ti
(187) Mitsubishi 3000GT
(3) Mitsubishi Eclipse and (4) Starion
(2) 1984 Nissan 200SX, (2) 1994 240SX and (381) 300ZX
(1,935) Oldsmobile Aurora
(22) Peugeot
(87) Pontiac Aztek (more please), (61) Fiero and (569) Firebird/Trans Am/Formula
(6) Porsche 928 including (2) S4
(6) Porsche 944
(597) Saab
(3) Saturn
(20) Sterling
(173) Subaru including (123) SVX
(327) Toyota Supra, including (4) final generation

>1985 Audi Quattro
are you fucking joking me

i said it'd break your heart

>(15) Isuzu Vehicross
Fucking cunts

What's more is that many of the rare ones were probably worth more in shitty shape than whatever rebates they could've gotten back.

>I remember seeing a bunch of ek hatches,a few 95 supras, and a couple of 300z tt, any one have the list?
so nothing of value then

(97) Chevy Corvette
I wonder what condition these were in. Either smashed but rolling or engine is fucked.
A mid 90s corvette with a completely fucked engine wouldn't be worth 4500 in 2009.

>Isuzu Vehicross
wow, these are awesome

Nah you're just a pussy that gets offended when people say mean things in your safe space, the thread is about a government program instituted by liberals.

Of course you're not gonna admit to being a lib on here, but you wouldn't get all huffy if you weren't one.

>(123) SVX

>(1,935) Oldsmobile Aurora
That is a lot of fucking Auroras, Jesus! Why the hell were so many of those traded in? My first thought was because of the Northstar but there's less than a hundred Cadillacs on the list!

>squeaky clean credit, 740 score
>because I only use one card for gas and groceries and pay it off immediately
>denied credit when I applied for a mortgage just to see what I could get out of pure interest
>"limited credit history" was the reason given

>brother has 500 score
>takes out payday/title loans
>misses payments on shit
>easily gets 180k loan for a house

Predatory bank Jews :/

>(373) Mazda RX-7

No, the shitty economy did. Americans would be paying way over the odds for 10, 15, 20 year old cars anyway, and then complaining about the manunfacturer when things wear out.

god, i really REALLY fucking hate jews.

>all of those expensive or rare cars worth 3-5x more than fucking 4500 even if they were burned to the ground in a riot
literally how fucking stupid are fucking people? this fucking makes me rage so fucking hard. more than the fucking greedy pieces of shit that raped the used car market with this so people would be forced to buy $30k cuckmobiles.

Sure some of the cars were barely running, but many were fine, shitboxes, but 2000 dollar mechanically sound shitboxes. For a while it did hurt the cheap used car market and did hurt the rural and suburban poor. The effects are now over.

The program was a gift to the UAW, and was psychological stimulus for the economy. It truth it was a disaster and a net negative for the environment.

The gnx, and cyclone I believe we're cases of fraud.

>The gnx, and cyclone I believe we're cases of fraud.

The entire program was full of fraud. Dealerships (especially high volume ones that were taking in hundreds of C4C cars) started offering the credit for basically ANY car that got even close to the requirements of the program, then just falsifying the paperwork on the back end.

Lots of them would kill the engine, then make ANOTHER ~500 or so selling the rest of the car off to pick and pull yards,.

Hell no. Cash for clunkers got rid of some of the most dangerous gas guzzling rides that there were out there.

>blaming obama for capitalism

>(60) AMC Eagle

>Dodge Stealth
>RX7
>Mitsubishi 3000GT
>SVX
>old and new generation supras
I HATE PEOPLE SO MUCH

>Peugeot
Wait, they sell those here in the US?

>Finished my masters, got a nice Managment gig at an IT company here in NC.

>from a blue collar wagecuck to a decent white collar wagie.
Good for you bud.

They did very briefly, in the early 90s I believe. But Renault ruined any good reputation French cars once had in America, so nobody bought them.

The thing that absolutely kills me about this whole catastrophe is that the people who traded their cars in got, what, $6k in credit toward a new car? Looking over this provided list I'm positive most of them are worth double, triple, even quadriple that number. Even in shit condition. Something just doesn't add up here

I worked in da used car biz during CFC, did towing, auctions and salvage.

The butthurt is misplaced. Most CFC vehicles were shit, not sexy statistical outliers. It was nice for spare parts for salvage yards because you only needed to silicate the engine and destroy the unibody or cab with the VIN. Everything else was rape bait and we sure raped.

Anything ten years old or older was and is crusher bait with a few exceptions so all the CFC vehicles would be long gone now anyway. Factors in the used market are inflated car prices, inflation, and long lived modern vehicles.

>Lots of them would kill the engine, then make ANOTHER ~500 or so selling the rest of the car off to pick and pull yards,.

Perfectly legal and legit! I read the fucking rules. The goal was to remove old polluting engines, not wipe out the salvage value. BTW what wiped out all the nice old salvage yard stocks was high scrap metal prices. China buys much of our scrap and before the Recession scrap was so high salvage yard owners gleefully called in portable crushers and made bank.

The pick and pull yards like everyone else had a deadline to crush the mandated components so they were an ideal way to sell off the good stuff quickly before crushing and shredding the hulks.

It did, but it's recovering.
The new car of today is the shitbox of today+15 years.

That list doesn't show condition. Of course some owners could afford to throw away shit they were bored with, and ugly crap like AMC Eagles weren't loved at the time.

I suspect the CV CNGs may have been a fleet disposal which makes sense if the value at CFC exceeds auction prices. Auction prices can be much lower at dealer auctions than mere mortals think. The used car biz is not a charity.

it must have taken a while to type all of this with all of the hand rubbing

>two turds, a meme engine and a goody looking subaru

Underrated post

some good cars were saved

Salvage yards part out, scrap yards break and separate into different metals. There is a specific difference. Take it from me, I live in Flint, MI, I have a dozen salvage yards, and half dozen scrap yards less than 10 miles of my home.

Now, by federal law under the program, the cars couldn't be sent to salvage yards to parted out. They had to be sent to scrap yards to be broken down. Engines were required to be destroyed, to ensure they couldn't be put into a different car. And yes, scrap prices did drop dramatically after this program. Still hasn't gone back up. We're talking over $200/ton before the program, to half that now.

Here's the pic of the last vehicle I scrapped. It was either take in one piece, get $300; or take it in pieces, and I fetched $611. I know scrapping.

Peugeots were sold here from 1958 to 1991.