Gommie libruls:

Arabs taking credit for Persian achievements, really they should call it the Persian Golden Age.

Andalusia was based tho

>The word nation itself stems from Old French and I doubt they spoke that in Antiquity,
>The modern translations talk about gentiles in that passge, not nations which is far more accurate: biblehub.com/dbt/romans/11.htm
Then call it ethnic groups, you're just being pedantic.

>You should read up on what cultural capital means.
How do you call the sum of knowledge and know-how accumulated by a given population that facilitate technological and cultural advancement?

Charlemagne makes every cathedral have school with a library to make sure the clergy and noblemen have proper education.

Arabs gather all the books in Baghdad, so the Caliph can show off how educated he is. All the books are lost from a single night of Mongol carnage.

Cathedrals are looted in Europe, but never all at once, so knowledge is maintained and spread in all corners of European Christendom and the quality of clergy maintained. Universities are later developed from cathedral schools (Paris), or as continuation of cathedral school education.

No, I am not. I don't transpose 19th century context to 9th century Mediterranean. Also gentiles does not simply mean ethnic group.
>How do you call the sum of knowledge and know-how accumulated by a given population that facilitate technological and cultural advancement?
I don't know but cultural capital is a social figure and can't be gathered by merely acquiring artifacts.
>You can take libraries, and subjugate cities, which include the intellectuals living in them, can't you?
This won't make the "intellectuals" (which once again is a very modern concept) Muslim i.e. contributing to the Golden Age.

Let's stick to the concept of cultural capital that you introduced. Capital for Bourdieu is gathered through work i.e. the people coming to the cities, meeting those smart people and conquering the libraries would need to put in some work too. They needed to read the books, translate them, hire the intellectuals as teachers for their children etc. It's a complicated social process which is not finished by subjugating cities. Did they do this? I can't really tell apart form the fact that they sure as hell put a lot of work in gathering and translating antique texts to an extend that the Greek originals are lost forever.

Muslims had universities in Europe before Christians. Also a shit ton of Greco-Roman knowledge was saved by Muslims which is common fucking knowledge: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics#Arab_translations_and_commentary
>Charlemagne makes every cathedral have school with a library to make sure the clergy and noblemen have proper education.
Sort of but not because he was a humanist but because he wanted to unify his realm and fortify his positions through proto-bureucrates.

The gommie libruls are right, during the Islamic Golden Age reason and intellect were indeed highly valued.

The nationalist LARPers are right: rapid conquest of various established civilizations leads to a lot of intellectual traditions being contained in one empire. This is pure fact.

Le black science man is right too. Islam had a golden age in part of the above, but in part to also being open to things. Then Al-Ghazali came and rejected everything Greek. Do you understand what happens to science when you deny the existence of causality? Of course there were dissenters like Ibn Rushd, but he was more popular among Christians than Muslims ironically enough.

Not everyone you disagree with has a "meme opinion", it's about seeing the bigger picture.

>This won't make the "intellectuals" (which once again is a very modern concept)
How do you call someone like Al-Khwarizmi?

>No, I am not. I don't transpose 19th century context to 9th century Mediterranean.
Are you implying definite ethnic groups didn't exist and weren't recognized before the 19th century?

Universities were a special legal institution independent of local power and patronage. The development of universities were unique in world history. The private libraries in the Muslim world or the ancient Greco-Roman world were far off from being such stable and independent institutions for the transmission and preservation of knowledge, or the education of lettered men.

Of course Muslims had rare works that the small cathedral schools hadn't the resources in the beginning to keep, and we should be grateful for them. However it was not the case that everything disappeared from Europe, a vast amount of works, especially latin works, were saved by the cathedral schools. While Muslims that took over the Greek east had a lot of Greek works.

Not him, but are you implying nations existed in thr 9th century?
They did exist prior to the 19th century, but a nation is a modern invention. It isn't just an ethnic group.

>Arabs taking credit for Persian mathematicians
And scientists. And poets. And cartographers. And medicinal sciences. Also see this: Andalusia and the Moors were pretty great but largely regular.

Musleleems did a lot of good work, greeks are overrated, our pop knowledge is much too enthreaded with victorian memes, which isn't even that surprising, seeing as how public schooling really took off at that time.

The majority of the scholars that came during the "Islamic Golden Age" were from Greater Khorasan area of Greater Iran during periods such as the Samanid Empire. They were the ancestors of Iranians called "Tajiks".

This land has also been called "Land of Tur". People who inhabit Greater Khorasan were typically called "Turanians", especially in the Shahnmameh, so Turks can shut up about that...

Scholars such as Avicenna, Al-Khwarizmi, Al-Biruni, Khayyam, Al-Farabi, Rhazes (actually from Pars region), and etc. were all Iranians, but they were heavily influenced by Buddhist, Greek, and Zoroastrian thought. Islam was not really important to their overall worldview, and in fact, they would secretly drink wine and do much more considered haram discreetly.

The number of Iranian scientists outranked the Arabic scientists:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Persian_scientists_and_scholars

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_scientists_and_scholars

In the Samanid Empire, Buddhist-Zoroastrian hybrids were very popular:
transoxiana.org/11/kamoliddin-samanids.html

In general, I'd say the Tajiks, who are an Iranian peoples that speak Persian and practice similar holidays (such as Nowruz), can be considered descendants of many of these scholars during the Islamic Golden Age. They also possess ancient Soghdian ancestry. All Iranian peoples share a common ancestry and their ethno-cultural roots are very strong. Tajiks and Persians got culturally separated later on due to things like politics and religion, but 2000 years ago it seems that they had more in common than they did different and probably would have regarded each other as the same kind of people. In ancient times if you look at the archeological findings and see the cultural and trade elements, you find a common culture shared spread out across a large region.

Soghdians had close relationship with East Asia, and this could explain the popularity of Buddhism during the Islamic Golden Age.

My friend took a trip to Panjakent in Tajikistan and took a tour of the museum. They talked a lot about the Sogdian ruins in the city, and how in ancient times if you look at the archeological findings and see the cultural and trade elements, you find a common culture shared spread out across a large region.

Samanids simply identified themselves as Persian.

all of those are right OP

Once Germany, France, and Sweden are islamicized western learning will inform Muslim thought in the 22nd century and beyond and Islam will be made great again.

as being Iranian*

Persian is just one Iranian ethnic group.

There are a lot of Iranian ethnic groups.

The majority of the Islamic Golden Age came from those descended from Eastern Iranians like Sogdians. Give credit where it's due, man.

Samanids were Persian, the language they spoke was Persian, the coins and issues they left were deliberate and intentionally following those of the Sassanids. Are all Persians ethnically Iranian? Yes. Are all Iranians Persian? No.

The majority of the "Islamic" Golden Age came from Iranians but trying to wrestle that credit to specifically the Khorasan region or specifically to the Tajiks is not right.

>One of al-Kashgari's most historically significant poems, tells of the Turko-Islamic conquest of the last of the renowned Central Asian Buddhist kingdoms, the Kingdom of Khotan of the Iranian Sakas:

>We came down on them like a flood!
>We went out among their cities!
>We tore down the idol-temples,
>We shat on the Buddha's head!

The golden age was basically arabs keeping Greek information moving. Hermetiscism was preserved in Lebanon.

Tajiks are literally just country-bumpkin versions of regular Persians anyway.
Nope.

>IT WAS ALL JUST PERSIANS

It's not called the Arab Golden Age.

>Iran
So further nationalist crap?

All those Greeks/Romans/Visigoths/Egyptians did nothing? The Arabs are incapable of learning?

>Persian muslims weren't muslim

Bruh I hate arabs too, but don't drag my religion into this

Islam brought nothing but death and destruction to the black civilizations of the past. It is a slave religion.

Arabs are incapable of learning.

Pretty much everything they knew was stolen from those ancient black civilizations you just mentioned.

>Be Stronk black African kangdom
>get cucked and sold into slavery by camelfucking dunecoons

We only fell when the whole world was against us. Arabs were not superior in the slightest.

The last thing this shitty board needs is another Ironic tripfag. It wasn't funny when Constantine started shilling for Orthocuckism, it wasn't funny when Saladin started shilling for Islam. It wasn't funny when that turk faggot and that jew faggot started doing the exact same gimmick, and it's even less funny now. What the fuck made you think that anyone would find this tired, played out gimmick funny?

Fucking tripfags.

Islam and Christianity are slave religions. Judaism was actually founded by us but the modern Jews tried to cover it up.

I'm not trying to be funny at all. I'm simply trying to spread the truth.

>Judaism was actually founded by us but the modern Jews tried to cover it up

WE

There isn't one Greco-Roman text or manuscript that exists that has survived thanks from Muslims preserving it or ending up in circulation in their hands. Your wikipedia article says so. You're posting a Latin Europe meme that is ignorant that the Byzantines existed and had those texts, and confusing that the Andusians making Latin translations and commentary for a few Arab-translated of the Greco-Roman classics for the Latin speaking West was them literally bringing back Greco-Roman classics to European Christendom.

MW actually isn't ironic and was spouting this same bullshit a few days ago. I'm really scared for his mental health. I don't think he even comes from Veeky Forums, he talks exactly like those people on Afrocentrist forums like Egyptsearch.

You don't speak the truth though. Sure you can make the argument that white historians have fabricated everything but they have a hell of a lot more credibility than that BS website you keep linking to.

>What's the non-meme opinion about the golden age of Islam?
people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

Will answer most of your question and more in a very general kinda sense.

What's with this strawman?

>Before this potentially interesting thread devolves into tripcode faggotry and memeing

The Islamic Golden Age was a thing, yes Persians or khurasanis or whatever iranians contributed to it, but it's called "Islamic" and not "Arab" for a reason. Iraqis, Maghrebis, and Andalusians contributed a good amount as well, and they were in fact Arab-speaking people. But let's start at the beginning.

The Islamic conquests brought many civilizations under Muslim rule, along with their different cultures and languages such as the Egyptians, (referred to as Copts by the Muslim sources regardless of their church affiliation) Persians, Berbers, Roman Africans, (Vulgar Latin and African Romance were still spoken at the time of the conquests) Spaniards previously living under visigothic rule, and the Indians from the Sindh. For the most part, these people converted to Islam and participated in the Muslim community and the Golden Age.

This was the setting when the Abbasid Harun al-Rashid became caliph in 786. The Golden Age is attributed to have started under his rule. He and his son Al-Ma'mun developed the legendary library, the Bayt al-Hikma or "House of Wisdom", the epicenter of the Muslim scholarly pursuits until its destruction by the Mongols in 1258.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom

The compilation of books began under the supervision of Al-Ma'mun. The works of the Greeks and the Indians were translated into Arabic, where Muslim philosophers such as Al-Farabi,Al-Kindi, and Ibn Rushd studied the Greek works and wrote extensive commentaries on them. Al-Khwarizmi wrote treatises on algebra and the Indian numerical system, and influence Abu Kamil, who contributed extensively to algebra and geometry.

Muslims weren't the only contributors to the Golden Age. Moses Maimonides, a Sephardic Jew born in Andalusia, was one of the most influential philosophers of the period.

It's a large empire that spread knowledge from distant longitudes at a time when Western Europe had become mostly illiterate and with little regard for knowledge.

They come from a largely nomadic background, and like all Nomadic empires that settle down, they ended up absorbing from the more refined cultures they conquered.

>Judaism was actually founded by us but the modern Jews tried to cover it up.
[muffled DAS RIIIIIIIGHT in the distance]

realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Canaan_1.htm
realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm

Stop giving him attention.

>What's the non-meme opinion about the golden age of Islam?
Overrated and barely real. It was just a relatively less shitty period of Islamic history, but still a shitty period of Islamic history since all Islamic history is shitty. They didn't actually do anything relevant for the rest of the world.

What's a good, relatively unbiased book on the period? I want to learn more.

...