Anyone have any recommended books on the Yugoslav Wars?

Anyone have any recommended books on the Yugoslav Wars?

The Balkans: Nationalism, War & the Great Powers, 1804-1999
and
The Fall of Yugoslavia: The Third Balkan War
Both by Misha Glenny
Amanda Brook Celar's Of a not so civil war

To understand why and how the violent breakup happened you must first know about the entire history of Yugoslavia, from it's creation at the end of WW1, interwar tensions, WW2 debacle and communist power balancing acts that set it up to fail for the 2nd time.

Are you implying that there was no external meddling whatsoever?

Not him, but for the most part there was no external meddling. It was entirely within Serbia's power to avoid the war.

Men like Izetbegovic, Tudjman and Milosevic were great orators, but they didn't command a notable diplomatic standing and achievements, they've lacked the full support of their people and the actual bravery to start such a conflict all by themselves.

>It was entirely within Serbia's power to avoid the war

The problem with the referendums was that they were illegal, even according to the liberal constitution of 1974, they were organised on levels of individual federate republics, they weren't nationwide.

>was that they were illegal

Many things are "illegal". Smart people find a way to avoid war and maximize gain. Stupid people start a war that drags on forever and achieves nothing.

>entirely within Serbia's power to avoid the war.
No it wasn't.
To quote Tudjman:
"There would not have been a war hadn't Croatia wanted it."
It's me.
There was, i'm talking about internal factors such as the 1974 constitution. Power balancing through the creation of AVNOJ the borders.

>"There would not have been a war hadn't Croatia wanted it."

Croatia could have chosen not to secede, that is all. But both secede and not go to war, Croatia couldn't have done that, only Serbia.

>But both secede and not go to war, Croatia couldn't have done that, only Serbia.
I don't quite understand what you want to say? That Serbia could have seceded from Yugoslavia?
Had Croatia waited more it would have seceded eventually, and the war would have been avoided.

I am saying that Serbia should have allowed Croatia to secede.

>Had Croatia waited more it would have seceded eventually

Not it wouldn't. Since Slovenia left, Serbia had a 3 (4) to 2 (3) Majority in the Supreme council. Montenegro, Macedonia and Serbia could always outvote Croatia and Bosnia, which in time would have made a secession more and more difficult.

Don't even try to argue it, it was the Serbs (Milosevic's) fault 100%. And I say this as a Montenegrin.

they weren't smart, the declaration was brash and completely ignorant of the constitution.Had they waited a few years, all of this would've been avoided.

They've basically started the war.

see

Croatia would have been allowed to secede once the status of it's Serbian minority had been settled. Milosevic was not that stupid. That's why he let Slovenia secede and never authorized an offensive to Zagreb. It's not a smart move to keep people that want out in your country, as was example with interwar Yugoslavia.
The only place where i think would be difficult to avoid war is Bosnia. But if delayed peaceful secession of Croatia happened it wouldn't have been nearly as bloody.

So they've should've allowed them to completely ignore the constitution and do as they see fit?

If the South decides to secede, will the rest of the United States of America be forced to simply accept it?

>Anyone have any recommended books on the Yugoslav Wars?

Croatia did nothing wrong. There was nothing to settle about the Serbian minority, Milosevic wanted them to have the right to veto the secession, but that is complete nonsense.

>The only place where i think would be difficult to avoid war is Bosnia.

If there was no war in Croatia, there would not have been a war in Bosnia. The (few) separatists never had the means to take on the JNA.

>So they've should've allowed them to completely ignore the constitution and do as they see fit?

Yes, that is democracy.

>If the South decides to secede, will the rest of the United States of America be forced to simply accept it?

Yes, they should have, if they valued democracy. But the US is a rogue nation.

>There was nothing to settle about the Serbian minority
Are you kidding?

Firstly, the country wasn't completely democratic and secondly, they've had the option of organizing a referendum with other like-minded contemporaries on a nationwide level, but they knew they'd lose, so they've decided to go against the constitution.If they won't respect something on which they themselves have agreed upon in 1974, why should the Serbs respect their decision to secede?

Look, you can insist as much as you like, I still will value national self determination more, and if I had been a Croat, I would also have fought for independence.

Croatia was 80% Croat. Instead of keeping Bosnia, Kosovo and Peace, Milosevic decided to be extra greedy and go for Krajina too - then he lost everything. This was stupid, and no amount of arguing will undo it.

And the Serbs in Croatia don't have the right to self determination?

No, because Krajina wasn't a constituent republic of Yugoslavia.

"My insisting" is a fact, their secession was illegal, they've had an option to call for a nationwide referendum and do it jointly with other secessionists in Slovenia and Bosnia, but they didn't.

While we're at it, where are you from?

You're contradicting yourself.
Self determination vs National sovereignty and territorial integrity.
The Croatian declaration of independence infringes on the territorial integrity of Yugoslavia, and the declaration of independence of Serbs in Croatia infringes on Croatian territorial integrity. Both are exercises of the right to Self determination.

>nationwide referendum and do it jointly with other secessionists in Slovenia and Bosnia

And achieve what? Other countries can't tell if you should secede or not.

I am not contradicting myself. Every human would have the right to declare independence if you exercised the right of self-determination to the utmost - but that is an absolutely retarded point.

The borders of the Yugoslav republics were the most natural way to split up, since they were the level right below the national borders. Any further secession should be decided within them.

We are just talking past each other. No point arguing with Serbs, I'm out.

The right to self determination applies to ethnic groups, not countries. Read a book.

now you went full retard

They weren't countries, but federate republics and as such, could only secede from Yugoslavia if they garnered enough votes.

>Any further secession should be decided within them

In other words, self-determination and law should be respected only when it suits me?

>We are just talking past each other. No point arguing with Serbs, I'm out

Convenient and one more thing, I've asked you where you from, care to answer on that simple question?