Where did Scion go wrong?

Question

Where did Scion go wrong?

Alexander James

July 29, 2017 - 14:02

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Isaac Young

>being a brand intended for "young people"

July 29, 2017 - 14:05

Justin Hernandez

They tried to cater to the young market, but it was mostly elderly people that bought their shit.

Ex: Scion xB

July 29, 2017 - 14:06

Juan Taylor

if they'd painted it flat black, made it a droptop, made the hood a lil' longer, slammed it so fucking hard like pic related, and put some bosozuku exhausts on, everyone would have creamed

July 29, 2017 - 14:07

Lucas Sanchez

well you see Satan, their prices weren't low enough.

if i could get barebones toyota reliability for nissan prices i'd jump on it.

July 29, 2017 - 14:07

Anthony Hernandez

By not releasing that marvelous machine for consumers

July 29, 2017 - 14:09

Caleb Baker

Satan is exactly correct

In addition, Toyota went the wrong way. If a car company goes upward and forms a luxury marque it works very well (eg Lexus). But going downwards and forming a cheap marque is Toyota saying "these cars are lower brand quality than a Yaris"

July 29, 2017 - 14:11

Brayden Green

>TWO SCOOPS

July 29, 2017 - 14:18

Josiah Lee

it looks like one of those nip gangsters with hair that sticks forwards

July 29, 2017 - 14:24

Liam Martin

>cars for young people
>slow as shit

July 29, 2017 - 14:26

Camden Clark

Damn... that "really makes you think" meme is getting hot...

July 29, 2017 - 14:28

Carson Gomez

young people even back then didn't really car about performance. And for the ones that did, they weren't looking at toyotas

July 29, 2017 - 14:31

Dominic King

when they were first released they actually held true to the "pure pricing" and were relatively cheap for new vehicles.

this appealed to a few different crowds, but in the end mostly people who couldn't or didn't want to spend a lot of money on a car. then they raised their prices, but provided no better vehicle.

scion was a mistake.

July 29, 2017 - 15:23

Isaac Williams

>cars marketed at people who can't afford new cars

July 29, 2017 - 15:26

Asher Hall

I thought this was one of those meme shops

Holy fuck

July 29, 2017 - 15:27

Parker Gomez

dat pompadour

July 29, 2017 - 15:30

Carson Bennett

Copy pasta from previous thread.
To understand Scion, first you need to understand how Scion came to be In 1999, Toyota decided they needed to capture the hearts, minds, and wallets, of the youth generation. It all started with a cooperation of many Japanese companies, They came together for a brand of things specific to Japan that were to be marketed relentlessly to the youth under a brand called WiLL. There were WiLL refrigerators , laptop and desktop computers (made by Sony. IIRC, the US market equivalent was the Sony Vaio), cell phones, and of course, cars. Toyota made 3 cars for the WiLL brand (pic related), 2 were based on the Yaris (US market Echo), and the last was based on the Voltz (US market Pontiac Vibe). Pic related is the WiLL VS, based on the Voltz.

The WiLL project got Toyota inspired though. If this could work in Japan, there was a chance it could work more lucratively in the United States, their largest market. but first they had to find out what young Americans wanted.
This led to the start of Project Genesis. Genesis took 3 US market cars and advertised them different from the rest of the line up to find what clicked. While most of Toyota's line up were advertised for their practicality and reliability, these 3 cars were marketed as fun, and fast. The 3 cars were the Toyota Echo, the Toyota Celica, and the Toyota MR2 Spyder.
>continued next post

July 29, 2017 - 15:31

Jacob Rodriguez

People with marketing degrees are hacks who know nothing about what people actually want to buy. Scion was a product of marketers only, not even the slightest input from engineers and enthusiasts.

July 29, 2017 - 15:32

Jason Lee

Project Genesis ended in 2001 and was branded a huge failure, but one they learned from.
The Echo wasn't quirky or unique enough to capture their imaginations.
The MR2, though desired by many young Americans, failed because dealer markups (because sports car) pushed the price of them out of the range of the intended market.
The Celica caught on though. It was unique enough to capture imaginations. It was sporty enough to not be a complete poser, and as a hatchback, it was practical enough for youth to use as a DD.
Project Genesis then led into Project Exodus, later renamed Scion. Exodus built on the lessons learned from Genesis, to great success. From the MR2, they learned they would need to employ the technique of no-haggle-pricing borrowed from GM's Saturn division (which had had success in the youth market). This kept the cars at sticker price. Dealers were not allowed to mark up or they'd lose the right to sell any Toyota products, period.
From the Celica, they realized hatchbacks made everything more practical for the youth and made cars usable for everyday driving. A Celica replacement was quickly developed for Exodus (The Scion tC).
From the Echo, they learned the cars needed to be interesting and quirky, with often controversial styling. They also learned they needed a new brand. Young buyers didn't want to own a car from the same brand with dull and lifeless products like the Camry and Corolla. A California ad firm was contracted to develop the brand, logo, and advertising. Scion was the result.
>continued next post.

July 29, 2017 - 15:32

Luke Turner

Something else unexpected they learned from Genesis, from the Success of the Celica, was the importance of personalization. They noticed most of the Celica's had been modified and personalized. Ka-ching! Big opportunity there! This led to the Optomize Scion program. With the program, Toyota would foot the bill for other companies to develop bolt on aftermarket parts for Scion vehicles. These parts would then be made available at dealerships through TRD and wouldn't void the warranty. This would be a huge selling point for many buyers.
Scion got their own headquarters in California separate from Toyota and announced themselves to the world in 2002 with a few concept cars (the BBX and CCX) which previewed what their production cars would look like (the xB and tC respectively). Scion released the xA and xB to the public in 2003 in California only initially to troubleshoot any problems before rolling out the brand to the rest of the country. The xA and xB were both based on the failed Echo, but were much more interesting. Scion wasn't keen on the original xB, feeling the styling too radical, and predicted the more conventional looking xA would outsell the xB 2 to 1. They were wrong. The xB's love it or hate it styling caught on in a major way, quickly developing a cult following. The were well-built, practical, attention-grabbing, and infinitely customizable. Advertising often touted the cars as a blank canvas

July 29, 2017 - 15:33

Parker Powell

mentioned advertising.
Genesis:
Echo-
youtube.com/watch?v=SFoJ_MWQb1Q
youtube.com/watch?v=zB8huyJTFZo
youtube.com/watch?v=nWFYtJiGryA
Celica-
youtube.com/watch?v=ENgz5QbUROE
youtube.com/watch?v=8a2lcFMqHxw
youtube.com/watch?v=12CDQ5UlLGU

July 29, 2017 - 15:35

Cameron Bell

Scion is a brand known for releasing cars made by gamers, for gamers

July 29, 2017 - 15:35

Tyler Wright

Thank you for such an extensive and well thought out rundown (almost spelled rubdown on accident) I like reading about automotive history. Are you the guy who posted the history of Saturn and Pontiac?

July 29, 2017 - 15:40

Robert Sullivan

>old people thinking they know what young people want

well, i guess they got it right for mexican kids. they eat shit like scion up because their race is tacky as shit.

July 29, 2017 - 15:43

Jaxson Roberts

something interesting to note about Scions is that they were actually super popular with old people too. xBs especially are pretty easy cars to get in and out of and their low price and good accessability made them popular choices for older people.

The average age of a Scion buyer was 49. Part of this can be accounted for by parents buying scions for their kids (I see a lot of college kids in tCs) but there is still a notable amount of older drivers who bought scions (most notably xBs).

July 29, 2017 - 15:45

Ethan Sanders

My ex drove an xb so I get pissed whenever I see one of those autistic cars

July 29, 2017 - 15:52

William Cox

most mexicans I know think that scion is poser honda.

July 29, 2017 - 15:56

Chase Cruz

Guess those gamers don't know shit about cars.

July 29, 2017 - 16:01

Luke Harris

13 year old me really wanted this car.
>playing video games IN A FUCKING CAR

July 29, 2017 - 16:08

Nicholas Gray

Can you stop spamming this marketing bullshit? People stopped buying them and that's why they went bust.

July 29, 2017 - 16:13

Noah Flores

People stopped buying for a reason. That reason can be pinpointed to the redesign of the second gen xB.
The second gen xB is shit for a few reasons. The biggest is that they listened to the customers when designing it. This would normally be a good thing depending on who you listen to.
Scion listened to the wrong half, the people who bought the first xB and hated it. I see the reasoning for this. Scion themselves weren't sure of the original xB and thought it too controversial to properly catch on. So they took a cautious approach to the second gen listening to all the complaints instead of all the praise.

They complained the styling was too edgy. So all the sharp edges were rounded off.
They complained it was too small, so while the first gen is based on the small Toyota Echo, the second gen is based on the Toyota Corolla, which was much larger. Ironically, the second gen is smaller inside despite being larger in most directions. This is because, although longer and wider, the second gen is shorter with a sharper raked windshield. This led to much smaller openings that makes putting large items in it a pita compared to the first gen car.
They complained it was too slow, so they gave it the same engine as the Scion tC, a 2.4L 2AZ-FE borrowed from the Camry. This would be fine if the engine didn't have a penchant for chugging oil. According to Toyota, 1 quart every 1900 miles is perfectly normal.

By these changes combined, the car completely lost the identity that made the original an icon in the first place. The first model was popular among the youth market Scion aimed at. The second gen was more often bought by geriatrics than anyone else because the redesign had made it easy for them to get in and out while attempting to seem "cool" to their grandchildren.

With the second gen xB so popular with old people, it DESTROYED Scion's reputation among young people. the problem with a brand that relies on coolness is you have to keep it.

July 29, 2017 - 16:19

Brandon Price

And right as the xB, which was holding Scion together, was starting to drop off in the latter half of the decade, in comes the Kia Soul to completely devour it's market segment.

July 29, 2017 - 16:31

Jayden Green

right. My only real problem with the Soul is the lack of aftermarket support. Beyond that, it's a decent car

July 29, 2017 - 16:34

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