Who else likes electric cars and plug-in hybrids?

The Model 3 is cheaper in terms of range per dollar.

also the OTA updates, and supercharging access, and most importantly it doesn't look like ass

they've all been snatched up by similarly thinking people. Wait until the 2018 one comes out; then there might be more

I like the BMW i8 but not the front tires or supercar aesthetic . If bmw woud do a performance hybrid in an M2 style car and price point is be interested but I'm not payng over $139k for M2 level performance

>200 miles

plenty enough for me. The 3 is really cheap for it's range, too.

...

Almost 3 times farther than 90 percent of the daily driving done by 99 percent of Americans. Americans drive more than almost anyone else

You mean OTA Hacking, because we're going to find out just how shitty the security of those Teslas are.

Electrics are a huge opportunity for real hot rodding. Something that hasn't happened in 50+ years. Make things happen while the manufacturers and regulators are still standing around with their dicks in their hands.

I couldn't care less about them, but my wife drives one.

Such as?

[citation needed]

No but you see I will totally take a spontaneous unplanned roadtrip across America.

most plug in hybrids are a meme due to extremely limited range on the battery alone. pretty much a "why though" technology.

electric cars are neat if you have a charger at work and have an alternative vehicle w/ gas/diesel engine for longer trips without extended stops for recharging.

>literally the only automobile company that can (and does) send out fleetwide security updates OTA
>muh security
Any modern gas car (or any other electric car for that matter) is more vulnerable.

Good thing you can just regurgitate what you hear on the internet because forming an opinion is really hard.

BEVs are a scam. When SHTF, there is no way anyone will be able to provide their BEVs with new batteries. Using the simpler lead acid batteries won't work, because the regeneration mechanism was designed for Lithium-ion.

>SHTF
>gas stations
Good luck retard.
Electric cars were the first moving after the tsunami in japan.
There are of ways to make electricity, you're not going to run a refinery in your back yard.

>SHTF
It will never happen and you are delusional if you think it will.

dude, i researched it, I bought a gas fusion instead of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid for a reason.

200+ miles is not "extremely limited" at all.

okay, let's talk about distance and range. we first have to split it into two categories: whether I go with something that partially consumes gas (plug in hybrid or electric hybrid) or electric.

electric, the fusion is not offered in a pure electric. but competitors offer sedans that do.

my electric costs about 17 cents a kilowatt hour by now, which means I could charge the car for about $4 to full if the car has a 24 kwhr battery (4.08, but who is counting). If work offers EV chargers then I might be able to do it for free. fucking score.

well, now I need an EV charger wherever I go. if work has them, great (working remote now doesn't apply). airport doesn't have EV chargers (they have them onsite which costs $40+ day for parking and the EV chargers are always taken). slow charging from the wall just sucks. getting a charger installed is a multi thousand dollar commitment per location.

but hey, let's say I get a model 3 with a $44,000 pricetag (missing a LOT of features from my much cheaper fusion). supercharging ain't free, 310 mile range max. heat is really punishing to range as a driver in the northeast (byproduct of engine for ICE, versus a very expensive drain without).

tesla doesn't warranty the battery in any meaningful capacity. they basically warranty that the battery has the ability to propel the car for 8 years/100K miles. it could lose half or more of its capacity within that time (halving the range) and too bad fuckface. nissan even warrantied the fucking leaf initially for a guarantee of 5 years/80,000 miles to be at 60% capacity (replacing if it fell below that within those periods), which they ended up having to do many warranty replacements on. basically your gas tank isn't going to get smaller, but your expensive as fuck battery is going to lose capacity.

here, continued
so beyond the battery wear (lets ignore the environmental impact of making lithium ion batteries) and the cost of replacement, you have the range, 200+ mile range is decent. I drive regularly 180 miles each way. every day? no. once every one to two months? yeah. more during the summer, less at other times. the model 3's impressive quoted 300 mile range (far less with heat, plus wear on the battery) is not what most of them have, and eventually those factors play in.

if you have EXCEEDINGLY short commutes or never drive long distances, that's okay. If you do, it's a pain. superchargers are 30 minutes IF one is available. tesla owners have lined up for over two hours for superchargers. for the model 3 they won't even be free for charging.

in short, if the circumstances are right, then an electric car can make sense. but if your commute is long, you regularly make long trips, you keep cars for long periods or buy used... the economics disfavor pure electric. getting similar features other than the method to propel the car in a gas engine is far, far cheaper.

here
so then let's move on to hybrid/plug-in hybrid. these actually make more sense for many drivers, although i would particularly debate the utility/point of plug-in hybrids.

so let's start with hybrids in general. hybrids in general can make sense. if we ignore the environmental impact of making lithium ion batteries, they make a lot of sense. they depend on the battery, but less so than the electric cars, which depend on them entirely. in that sense, they wear less, they benefit in other areas (e.g. cold weather, heat as a byproduct of the combustion engine). the battery can wear out but as it isn't always the source of propulsion the wear is less. (battery failure can and does happen in hybrids and then it costs money).

but hybrids these days are largely for the "virtue" of the tech. hell, the plug-in hybrid is basically only a thing because the admin will subsidize it. basically if you make a plugin hybrid, you're allowed to count it twice. if you make a plugin hybrid with a range of 22 miles on battery and that has an epa rating of 90 mpge, and you sell one plug in hybrid and one monster truck at 8mpg, you're allowed to count the plug in hybrid vehicle twice. 90 + 90 + 8 = 188 / 3 vehicles (remember you counted the plugin hybrid twice under government rules ;-) ) = 62.66 corporate average fuel economy.

so basically plug in hybrids are a scam to beat CAFE targets. once the battery depletes almost all of them will fully deplete shortly, at which point the combustion engine engages. There's a very limited use case where the commute to work is so short (e.g. 6 miles one way) that it makes sense because even with the wear over time on the battery the vehicle will always or almost always remain in the all electric mode. plus you get the practicality of an ICE for long trips.

here
now for a regular hybrid, at low speeds we combine the ICE with the battery, high speeds are basically the gas engine. if you drive city you can do about 50-100% more MPG. highway the gains are more minimal. you're looking at about a 25% benefit at 55mph and less/no benefit at higher speeds for fuel efficiency. at high enough speeds you need the ICE and at higher speeds the fuel efficiency of the combustion engine falls downe.

then we have the fact that they cost thousands more (even with the relevant subsidies) AND the reliability issues. ignoring the environmental impact of making the batteries (not free) there are still economic issues. especially in sedans the size of the battery often massively reduces trunk space, a practical impact.

if you live in the right area under the right circumstances then pure EVs can make sense
>short commute
>willing to install charger at home or use free chargers at work
>willing to wait long times (30min+ if the charger is free for 80% charge plus potential fees depending on vehicle class if public charger is free, more if not, cost of electricity + install if charigng at home) versus four minutes to pump a tank of 400+ capacity in many solely gas powered sedans
>either be willing to wait for long drives or have an alternative vehicle for them

hybrids have more use cases since the engine falls back to the ICE if the charge is low or speed requires it, you can get the range
>benefits are only truly realized in stop-and-go city driving- minimal highway benefit especially if exceeding 60mph
>additional cost/risk of failure for battery wear and tear (gas gets burned, doesn't wear)
>additional cost (even after incentives, tens of thousands of dollars)

especially in the states with most areas having gas prices well below $3 hybrids have a really tough use case for most drivers. a gas engine can last a long time and the consumable price is the price at the pump. batteries wear which is a massive problem.

So much autism ITT

wow I haven't read your posts at all but my compliments for the dedication

hope you read my posts, you might learn something.

it all comes down to use case. Even with everything you've said, I'd still be fine with the 3SR. But, someone like my brother wouldn't- that's why he has a Volt. Where do you live that electric is 17c/kwh? Can you pay by a flat rate or by current price? Cause if you can pay at night, when you're charging, it might be 8c or so

we don't have peak or on peak biilling here in New york as a general rule. thank god I'm not in NYC or the metro area, they charge (with generation/distribution/etc.) in excess of 30c/kwh on con edison

the problem is that you can choose either on peak or peak billing on my utility (NYSEG) . if you're in an apartment or home where everyone is out every day, you can save minimally by switching to time of use billing. if not, you get raped during the day far in excess of what you would save at night.

2018 leaf pics are out. doesn't look like a frog anymore. I like the older front better....

if the rumor of sub-180 mile range is true, it better be below 30k before incentives. Alternatively, they could advertise it as "get it *now* instead of a year+ with the TM3" and sell it around 35k.

> I like the older front better....
The c/d of "Fuck you" probably didn't do it any favors. Fine for a car that no one in their right mind takes on the highway for long stretches anyway, but not for a 200+ mile car (which I'm still hoping this will be)

It does look more boring though no doubt about that.

apparently the frog eye headlights was because there was too much wind noise; that design helped to divert the air, they claimed

i daily this,

>40km range
>17hp in boost mode

>officially a heavy quadricycle
wew. Does it have the speed limiter?

it does not need a limiter, it does not have enough power to break any speed limit. The suspension is so primitive and sketchy i almost never take it beyond 60kmh. I think it would flip if i swerved above 50kmh

Wanna see this tricked out with high performance motors and batteries, like this guy

youtube.com/watch?v=_o6igJGsBoM

put a p100d rear motor in it, then add some lifting surfaces

it would fly

I've been hearing that since the 90s. Everyone and their mythical road trip across the country

It still uses gas.

My 17yo shitbox can go 500 on a tank

lovely

>justin