Determinism states that our environment determines the way we think and behave

Determinism states that our environment determines the way we think and behave.
Our environment automatically activates both conscious and unconscious goals.
Thus, we are not ultimately responsible for our actions, and we merely live with the illusion of free will.

Inversely,
Free Will presents that it is possible to understand automatic behaviors in a non-deterministic way.
We are not passively shaped by stimuli from our environment.
Individuals ultimately direct their own goals by actively bestowing meaning upon our experiences.

Which is it?

>Which is it?
Deterministic Free Will is the only right answer.

I don't get people who are "absolute" determinist. There are species on our planet that base their actually base their decisions solely on external stimuli. Humans aren't that.

> Humans aren't that.
Humans are that. The different here is that they didn't base their decisions on stimuluses from here and now only, but have a pretty long time memories and such. One way or another, their mind is shaped by external factors.

How do you know this?
Your notion of free will might very well be an illusion.

>compatibilism

Hey my friend I like where your thought process is going. Which is why I want to help you continue on forward not give the answer. Hopefully this doesn't sound arrogant.
One thing I suggest looking into. Are you sure you 'understand' what free will is YET?

I'm don't have my mind wrapped around either concept fully, which is why I came here.

There is no free will you tards, everything you do is because of subconsious reptillian instincts. If yo u think free will is real smash your frontal lobe and watch as you turn into a wild animal.

the basic reasoning is

everything that happens, happens because a set of factors are responsible for it

nothing is purely chaotic, hence everything is the result of other factors

why should "free will" be different simply because it applies to man?
after all man is just another factor in the grand scheme of things
our "free will" is an illusion granted to us because we are self aware, but being self aware doesn't help us escape the deterministic aspect of the universe

the only way out is if you consider a factor that goes agaisnt traditional reasoning, such as a god who grants us free will

Determinist view makes math useless, why calculate decisions if your enviourment is a big calculator?
We base our decisions on calculated facts/possibilitites, free will?
Or is this some high end academic philosophy buushiiiee

> Why calculate decisions if your environment is a big calculator?
Because it is way easier to just run a some numbers than staging full scale experiments.

But is it really a experiment if you know the outcome?
I know that sticking a fork in my eye will make me bleed and go blind, therefore I have this will to not do it...

> If you know the outcome?
You didn't really know the outcome just sure about it, but you can always be mistaken like that guy in France who was made from glass.

you're assuming we already know the outcome of everything

determinism states that for everything there is only ever 1 possible outcome

the reason for maths is to find out what it is, after all just because something will happen doesn't mean we know it'll be that

What about automaticity? The idea that our brain automatically responds to outside stimuli based on our perception of the world and ourselves?

seeing as how our perception of the world and ourselves also came from outside stimuli the idea still fits into determinism, and in fact works well with it

It seems to be a large portion of the determinist mindset. I'm just curious as to how influential this idea is in our daily lives. Is every single decision made automatically - without any real control whatsoever?

well the gist of it is it's all a maths formula if you break it down

certain factors+certain individuals influenced by previous factors=new results and new factors to influence other things

obviously from our perspective we can't know what will happen
for example, the movements of planets and stars in the universe is already determined, they will take one single route
we don't know what it is though because we're not omniscient, but that doesn't change the fact only one outcome is possible

the same is true for everything, just on smaller and perhaps more complex scales


if anything, our ignorance of the future allows us to be free because it gives us the illusion of being in control

Care to explain why?

It comes down to how the laws of physics work

Doesn't the chaos theory says that chaos ends up creating similar patterns?

Would infinity be 1 or -1 to infinity or infinity as the space in between 1 and 2 , beginning and end

If its the later, does would the answer matter?

Minds are deterministic, but they still control things. You can't make a decision you wouldn't make, but you still decide things.
Knowledge of the future just extends the kind of decisions we can make. I think if we had knowledge of the entire future it would just mean we where deciding between different entire futures. If we had perfect knowledge of our own minds we could decide to affect them.

Heard of improper integrals? I think we may be wily enough to find our way out of finity.

Go on count to infinity

Determinism is bullshit. Life is chaotic. Sure there are rules and influences, but in the end every small factor, every little change, every tiny air breeze will completely change things so that nothing is really set and predictable.

As to your question: the truth is of course both. You are shaped by your environment. Your will is shaped by your environment. Yet you still choose what you like and what you want. Sometimes it's harder, sometimes it's easier. Sometimes you have to rebel, sometimes you conform.