EU and ambientalist hate thread

well you learn something new everyday. honestly thought it was rich as hell

is anecdotal evidence made up of one anonymous post and one image really enough for you to form or reform an opinion?`

fuck your generation.

The Dutch are, Belgiums are an inept in every sense of the word. If they have money it's pissed away at doings things poorly, half-assed or comically retarded. They are fucking awful to work with.

Don't get me wrong, not bad people, just merely bad at everything they do.

You don't even know what generation I from you dickhead.
It's not like I'm going to go tell all my friends about how poor belgium is. couldn't give a flying honestly

Mark my words. This hunt for renewable energy will just lead us back to the horse and buggy days. There is no way fossil fuels will last forever, there is no way solar or wind can provide power for even just normal appliances. We cannot grow enough corn, let alone fast enough, to produce ethanol as a replacement for gasoline, however we have tons of wasted cooking oil that can be repurposed into biodiesel. People are afraid of nuclear power because of the slight chance of malfunction, rendering a massive area uninhabitable for centuries. Unless we decide to use tons of hamsters and guinea pigs and make them run in little generators, and we use tons of humans pedalling generators.

Probably he's ironic, as many are on Veeky Forums.

>You don't even know what generation I from you dickhead.
i really, REALLY hope you're under 20. i shudder at the thought you might be older yet so undercooked mentally

Biodiesel from algae was an interesting concept, wonder how much off we're before mass production.
However I don't think there's enough cooking oil around to supply such demand for fuel

I just hope we'll be able to make synthetic fuels through photosynthesizer cells which run on sunlight and convert preferably co2 and h2o into a standard size hydrocarbon chain

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process

I refuse to believe that "big oil" isn't secretly already researching ways to do it in an economically viable manner

Agree. They know oil won't come out forever, they must have some kind of insurance policy to avoid bankruptcy

Audi of all people have been pushing real hard trying to make synthetic diesel a viable solution.

i fully welcome our electrical overlords. as fun as combustion engine nerd shit is, you kinda need a planet to drive on

Electric cars are not as clean as people think... especially in the U.S. They have to manufacture them right? Using energy that most likely comes from fossil fuels.

nationalreview.com/article/438642/electric-cars-environmental-impact-worse-advertised

hey look it's a long tailpipe hypothesis thread
reminder;

>power plants are way more carbon efficient than gas engines, the co2 per mile is far less.
>over time the grid will get cleaner which makes the co2 per mile drop
>you're parroting one of the oldest lines in the book

Cars have a finite lifespan, new cars will need to be built regardless.

each time you go through a conversion from energy form to another you're going to have losses, no system ever will be able to run 100% efficiency.

Earth > coal and oil extraction > refinery > distribution > fuel tank

with the additional step of burning the prime material to generate energy you'll have

Earth > coal and oil extraction > refinery > distribution to power plants > electricity generation > power grid > AA batteries in you Tesla™

you see the problem? We've added 3 more conversion steps to the whole, assuming the law of thermodynamics holds while all this, not only you've successfully displaced emissions but also created more because of all the losses that needs to be compensated.

>Yes American please give more gas monies to the friendly Saudis, your number one ally

>We've added 3 more conversion steps to the whole
And they're all more efficient than the dinosaur that is the ICE, resulting in higher overall efficiency.
Truly a testament to how outdated and terrible the ICE really is.

That's fair. As of right now the the U.S. people have put these car (electric. diesle is a different story especially after the whole VW/Audi thing) on this untouchable pedestal when in fact the have a reality too that should be looked at. Not saying we shouldn't still make them by any means. I had a diesel for a while and absolutely loves that insane gas mileage.

all true, but electric motors are incredibly efficient and gas engines are incredibly inefficient. There's literally multiple studies on this.
the math works out that the "breakeven point" where a gas car is more carbon efficient than an EV is when you compare something with 40 combined mpg to an EV and the EV charges entirely in an area where 90% of it's electricity comes from coal, which is a small and shrinking portion of the US.

>Earth > coal and oil extraction > refinery > distribution > fuel tank
lying piece of shit, how about not casually omitting steps like transport for the convenience of your shitty ass argument

too long of a chain then, however adding transportation only worsen the problem at the end

They do?

consumerism drive the need of constantly throw away old cars for the latest model. Nothing can last forever (neither EV) however if properly maintained a car can last a lifespan.

It's not like you can't buy a used electric car for a good price because some rich fuck sold to get the latest model

That reasoning is good with ICEs, as it will just go fine even with high milage, assuming maintenance. And since almost everything is made from metal, old scrapped parts can be recycled as well.

Old EVs however has the battery lifespan problem, which even with the best preventive maintenance possible is still going to fail at some point. Batteries are a huge pain in the ass to recycle however, adding to the problem. New cars will be always needed as they have a limited lifespan once they get out of the factory.

what is the agenda of petrol sniffing shills

making money, no matter the cost

Full tech inspection of Tesla P85 after 271.000 km (168k miles)

youtu.be/qNd3miNU85k

would they even go as far as paying trolls on Veeky Forums to dictate the discourse? sure looks like it

It's not hard to get the car to show you the state of it's battery pack.

Battery wear is mostly a meme anyway, Prius can do a million km on its original battery without major degradation

1. why do these germans sound like they have potatoes in their mouths
2. what is the point of this video? cars with 270,000 kilometers on the clock having wear?

...

anything to keep humanity at their mercy

Series that checks how different cars deal with clocking up high mileages.

One famed example was a mint 1 million km civic ek on lpg. Strong as ever.

prius's are in a constant state of charging or discharging nd even though it sounds similar to the stuff that an EV battery would be subject to it has a lot less toll on the batteries life span

He's pretty right.
Belgitards blame all their failures at the French/Dutch-speaking civil war, a lack of natural resources and foreigners. It's like they don't want to succeed.
France (member of EU) and Great Britain (NOT-EU). Announced they want to stop the _introduction_ of internal combustion engines on their soil in 2040. (that is 23 years from now). Any car any normalfag like you would buy now will be scrapped by then. And even if you buy a long lasting unicorn, fitting your personality, you can still drive it in 2041.
A lot of cities will decide to ban ICE in their centers by then though. But those decisions are made at the very lowest level of democracy. At municipal level. Not by the EU.
Your hate is towards a changing world. Towards democracy and towards the realization that everybody, including you, needs to limit (limit, not stop) their emissions in order to preserve the planet.
Don't buy the populist bullshit that everything that is wrong with ...industry is because of the EU.
Sure there is a lot wrong with the EU but that means it should improve, not stop to exist. It's like saying your country should stop to exist and government should be done by provinces/municipalities.
It. Makes. No. Sense.

haha shit my nigga are you trying to talk to these people like they're capable of rational thought and critical thinking
lol good luck my man

let's not go full political, however the EU has grown very unpopular because of how it destroyed southern countries for the benefit of Germany. It's not theories, Germany was doing really bad before EU and magically become a economical hub after €€€ become the standard currency.

Only EU is going toward that goal: China, India and all fast growing countries doesn't poo in loo a damn about the planet.

A car will easily burn 20,000 liter of fuel in its lifetime.
An extremely efficient ICE will have an efficiency of 30%.
A modern generator already has around 50% efficiency. Transportation, transformation and storage of electricity is much, much more efficient than that of fuel.
So the energy consumption during operational life is much better for the planet for an electric vehicle than that of a ICE vehicle.
The slightly higher production energy is EASILY negligible over the difference in energy consumption during the lifetime of a car.
Now, working towards a future with a lot more durable energy generation instead of fossil generation, it becomes quite evident electric vehicles are a LOT better for the planet than ICE.
And that is not bad. Even for a petrolhead. The whole world using fossil fuels is impossible. Better to save the fuel for the petrolheads.

pay debts

>India’s Road Minister also recently announced an ambition for the country to become a “100 percent electric nation” by 2030.

>EU [...] destroyed southern countries for the benefit of Germany.
> It's not theories
>Germany was doing really bad before EU and magically become a economical hub after €€€ become the standard currency.
Good thing you said:
>let's not go full political
Because, boy, do i disagree!
Also: India (poo in loo) actually cares about the planet. They care for wealth more though.

30%? New Mazda's are speculated to have a thermal efficiency of over 50%

HCCI is here

Is this really what passes for course work at Stanford:

large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph240/lambilliotte2/

? I see why the US education system is a laughing stock for the rest of the world.

So why do hippies insist on solar panels and wind farms when those will never meet rising energy demands but shun nuclear plants that will?

Nuclear plants in Canada are clean as shit and have had 0 accidents thanks to proper safety measures and training

why does the main driver sound like hes speaking arabic and everyone else german?

>Nuclear plants in Canada are clean as shit and have had 0 accidents thanks to proper safety measures and training
what is nuclear waste

>in europe within 20 years all internal combustion engines will be banned because muh pollution.
WRONG

Cheap natural gas did more to kill nuclear then the hippies ever did

a better and cleaner alternative to pumping coal and oil waste into the atmosfere.

Why do people want to preserve as much fossil-based energy business while we can all agree that that is the dumbest thing to do.
And I'll agree, nuclear would be better. And i'm pretty sure it'll end on top anyway. But why not ease into it by first doing solar and wind? nothing wrong with gathering free energy.

>nuclear waste
>a clean alternative to anything
get the fuck out you paid shill

coal plants produce more radioactive waste than nuclear plants
scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

you breathe the air with pollutant, think for example of the great london fog, which killed lots and lots of people because of all the pollution made from burning coal

once the nuclear waste are sealed and buried you'll never think of them again.

>where do you think electricity comes from

Renewables ane nuclear you dumb faggot

...

>others
>fatties running on the treadmill

probably diesel generators

>once the nuclear waste are sealed and buried you'll never think of them again.
how can you be so naive

>In europe within 20 years all internal combustion engines will be banned because muh pollution.
literally impossible, as far as i know, only UK and France will ban SELLING NEW petrol/diesel cars in 23 years from now on
eastern europe coutries are too fucking poor to even consider making all cars electrical
do you know how many tesla stations there are in poland right now?
fucking 12, three of them are in 1 city

Obviously you're very informed on nuclear waste so tell us all about it.

Lmao, nah. A DD that you drive on salty roads in the winter and store outside will eventually rust irreversibly.

>free energy
Because it's not like those solar panels need rare earth elements or something

He can't. These are paid Tesla shills

t. ((((big oil))))

the whole point of the EU is to pull you up
and it worked pretty well for now
so i don't see why you wouldn't have the infrastructure to support electrics cars in twenty years
specially since you can charge them at home

maybe the country did pull up, but having tesla stations in 9 cities quite shows that its still behind
also its not only about infrastructure
most of people are too fucking poor to afford a tesla
i live in one of the richer cities - still havent seen a single tesla. 80% of cars are passats, golfs, old bmws and audis
in my whole life i've seen a lamborghini or ferrari three, maybe four times

There are other better and cheaper options available for those not falling for the brand bullshit.

I mean Elon Musk™ can brag all day about electric car being the future and shit, but their base model is around 80k up to 150k. In the US is culturally-instilled that is cool to buy more that you can afford but in Europe it isn't even remotely thought. Tesla™ are just fancy toys for executives.

I mean I'd have to drive for 500000 kilometers before the Model S goes down at the same running costs my cheap econobox does (without counting maintenance) it's ridiculous.

Tesla sales in Hong Kong fell to 0 after the government stopped handing out incentives

we're in the beginnnig stages. you'll remember this time in a couple of decades, when EVs are commonplace. this innovation cycle is as regular as it gets.

you also don't have to buy a tesla. while they're pioneering the field, and every field needs pioneers, you can feel free to wait until affordable mass-produced alternatives by other car makers crop up. heck, you can go with korean and japanese alternatives too, even today.

well if someone has basic knowledge about cars they know it, but most of people dont give a fuck and just buy whatever is the cheapest and most popular
unless there will be any NEW electric cars for less than ~9-10k $, I can't see them having any chance at being popular here
most people cant afford more expensive cars through all of their life

Even the 35k target for the model 3 is out-of-reach for the common family. Anything more than 20k for a vehicle (at least in Italy, where I do live) is considered too much.

Fiat Panda, Punto, 500 or the Ford Fiesta are considered ideals.
If I go tell my parents to throw away their cars for something above 35k, they'd say to me:
"why would you want to waste so much money where there's so much for far less"

"Where do you think the electricity comes from?"
Yes, it comes mostly from oil & coal. But power plants have 95-100% of efficiency, thermic engine have something like 35-40%. So by using electric cars you've cut emissions by two thirds.

because in 50 years oil will be expensive af

You do know the efficiency chain for a BEV results in a total efficacy of 35-40% by the time you actually move the car right? You have voltage transformer losses, distribution losses, charging and discharging losses and motor losses. Looking at only the power plant or motor makes BEVs look environmentally friendly, looking at the entire efficiency chain shows the true picture, they are on par with good petrol or average diesel cars.

i dont mind electric cars. Great for normies who just commute. And, i happen to live in a country where a lot, like 75% of all electricity isn't from coal or oil, so electric cars really are a case here

That said, i still dont want one, because i prefer ICE

there is the renault zoé and the nissan one too
and there is still 20 years to go you will probably have more choices then

Do you actually have some sources on this? I've heard this number and variations of it a lot of times but I've never actually seen a source. It sounds very believable and I'm in favor of ICE, but that doesn't make me instantly believe this figure.

>You do know the efficiency chain for a BEV results in a total efficacy of 35-40% by the time you actually move the car right?
>Looking at only the power plant or motor makes BEVs look environmentally friendly, looking at the entire efficiency chain shows the true picture, they are on par with good petrol or average diesel cars.
simply not true. you fell for propaganda you tool.

It is ridiculous how little everyone here understands electricity. Pro tip, renewable generation charging EVs is not an issue. The issue is if everyone plugs their EV in at the exact same time.

And in 50 years there will be cheap electric cars, just not now

It's a gradual shift you retards, people didn't get rid of their horse overnight

>EU
>implying all the countries in the EU

nah senpai

I want a damn podracer!

Don't we all.

An algorithm should be developed for charging devices. By just varying the charging rate from 50% till 100% of charging capability peaks can easily be negated.
Or cars that allow 10% of their battery to be used as a grid-buffer.
Long term: charging is DC.. solar panels are DC. seems like creating a secondary grid for DC power might be viable.
>there are already moments when you are paid to use power of the grid. (negative power price)
Imagine being paid to fill up your car.

There is one thing they do good though and that is beer.

It's a thing, but you have all of it. It's not in the atmosphere or water. Just dump it in death valley, or make a reactor than can run off of it.

And chocolate.
They do know how to enjoy life.