Nihilism is the new face of God. The reaction to the groundlessness of human constructs is in itself a transcendental disposition, whereby the fixed point of God is replaced by a lacuna. The silence's yearning for God IS God.
Nihilism is the birth pang of a higher spirituality.
nah
I disagree user. I also disagree with your flamboyant use of the word lacuna.
I would say that nihilism means that something new is coming, but "birth pang" is a bit much...
>Nihilism is the birth pang of a higher spirituality.
I agree. When trying to build in a void, you wouldn't use the same techniques one would use to build on solid ground. From nihilism, we acknowledge the truly baseless nature of our values, and can build value systems meant to withstand the void of nihilism.
Exactly, user. The only true God (or in other words, the only God worth being called God) is found in the absence of God.
Have fun with the theme for your new emo-core metal band
>from nihilism we acknowledge the truly baseless nature of values
Where? How? What evidence is there for this? Can you just say anything on the internet and if it sounds good post it now it sounds like true?
Tell that to all the athiest, that'll really teach them
> Nihilism is the new face of God.
Nihilism was a face of God since Credo Quia Absurdum.
By baseless we mean the arbitrariness of subjective constructs. Consider: I did not will my particular way of processing the world before I was born, I was born and the rest happened by itself, the same for you. Since I did not will it, I can't actually say the particular "flavor" of my consciousness is my self, it was only "given" to me.
All constructs then are the products of unique, arbitrary individualities with no absolute reality beyond these subjectivities in question.
Seeing conditioning for what it is is, by definition, to go beyond it. The inexplicable fact of subjectivity itself, then, becomes the final support. The idea of God in the void IS God. He that mourns the death of meaning becomes that meaning.
Oh, of course, all of this is nothing new. The Taoists figured this all out thousands of years ago. It's the West that's playing catch-up.
Thought this was an xx thread.
>What evidence is there for this?
The complete absence of evidence for any of our values possessing any solid base. The fact any value system can be methodically picked apart to demonstrate that at the core, it boils down to "because I wish it to be true."
Simultaneously void is form. The nihilistic aspect would leave room for Personality of Godhead.
What is all of this talk of "no evidence on solid ground?".
Yes, the Godhead is both an emptiness and a fullness, a void that knows itself as void and in that recognition, paradoxically, the void transcends itself.
correct
anyone ITT have thought's on derrida's diferrance and its effects on identity?
From what I understand of Derrida, my take is: all individuation, all dualities, are a negation of this primordial fullness into beings that are either this-or-that.
For Being to be, there must be that which is (Schelling's dark, unconscious principle, the woman in the dichotomy of man vs. woman), and that which apprehends this "being-ness" as such (the light, conscious principle, the male).
This is the root of Derrida's concept of the trace: all dualities condition each other, in the light there is an intimation, suggestion, "trace" of that which is not-light, and in the same terms, the conscious always bears a trace of the passive and unconscious.
How would you know if the void is knowing itself as void?
ty mate. this is more or less what I grasped from reading as well. honestly found it rather easy, too, despite so many asserting his complexity
The void is just another name for reality. I am a part of reality. Therefore, I am this emptiness that is conscious of itself AS an emptiness. I am both the emptiness and its self-transcending, because in knowing myself as an emptiness I reject what in emptiness is darkness, non-being (such as the significance I attach to my body, my views, the opinions of others, etc. everything that I allow to have power over me)
No problem. I never got into Derrida hardcore but even for being the posterboy for "obscurantist twaddle" his ideas are remarkably sane and insightful.
Then it isn't nihilism, and sounds a lot like what buddhas and prophets teach, how there is world illusion and true form, a void / spirit vehicle that connects to a higher reality.
We can't define God or nirvana, and by denial of temporal reality is in no way nihilistic.
What I'm describing is what develops out of the original realization of nihilism. I'm saying it doesn't stop at the apprehension of the void, there must be an apprehension of the apprehension itself and all that implies...
Even with a nihilistic realization, there are realizations that come after that defeat all the nihilistic concepts.
Accepting God with some and any religious doctrine with optimism is contrary to nihilistic implications.
Right, nihilism is self-negating. The nothing "nothings" itself.
So there is no nihilism because nihilism disproves itself by its own negation
>tfw nihilism will never be a dominant ideology because they will always be bullied by people who actually have convictions
nihilism is only trendy in the west because our christian heritage is relatively tolerant
B-
> our christian heritage is relatively tolerant
In the east you have buddhism and other religions like tao that are nihilistic by default.
>the Tao
>nihilistic
Buddhism is not nihilistic. Nihilism is a stepping stone. To the nothingness of nihilism, the Buddhist says "this is not me, this is not I, this is not myself" which is what I've been saying this whole thread. It's the westerns inability to reach this understanding that makes him think Taoism of all religions is "nihilistic"
t. pop orientalist
but seriously, eastern religions have pretty complex cosmologies and ethics systems that are antithetical to nihilism. if you follow the eight fold path so you can reach nirvana or whatever then you aren't a nihilist because you obviously find those concepts meaningful
>inb4 but that meaning is just an illusion you create as a coping mechanism maaaaan dude everything is an illusion xD
To be fair, the moral precepts are not essential in and of themselves only a tool to cultivate a receptivity to the truth of emptiness, but again, emptiness =/= the eternal void.
either way you can't be a nihilist and believe that any sort of objective truth exists
I believe the goal of all eastern praxis is to attain a state where meaning, meaninglessness, fullness, void, death, birth, etc. just don't apply, a state that doesn't affirm existence nor denies it because neither can contain it. A purposelessness that is beyond every purpose.
Pretty sure you just used a bunch of fancy talk to say you believe in god...
Most of the reason nihilist aren't taken seriously is because they either claim their philosophy is nothing or that it is everything.
No one will reach any sort of higher plane trying to reform ancient concepts to your modern hipster search for meaning in life.
Sooo....
Everything's just a big cycle that is one.
Aren't you just doubling up your clauses to sound deep?
So if there is no nihilism what is this thread actually about?
dude i just heard the sound of one hand clapping
*rips bong*
I've made myself pretty clear. You do kind of need an experiential foundation for this stuff to make sense on any deep level. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
>Aren't you just doubling up your clauses to sound deep?
Not to sound deep but to root out the illusion of nihilism
>So if there is no nihilism what is this thread actually about?
Like most threads, not a whole lot
> So if there is no nihilism what is this thread actually about?
About people who think they can handle nihilism
"Nihilists" tend to believe that THIS life is all we will ever have, and death/oblivion is freedom. However, freedom from life means freedom from the things that make you "you", as well as the subjective joys of life.
If people actually understood the deep meaning of nihilism, it would completely destroy a person. Yet, humans for some reason have a sense of willpower to live
>Yet, humans for some reason have a sense of willpower to live
So badass
>If people actually understood the deep meaning of nihilism, it would completely destroy a person.
Those are some hot fucking opinions you have there. I've probably comprehended nihilism more deeply than you, and accepted the conclusion that "I" (and actually everything else) am just a metaphysical construct and that all the shit I enjoy is meaningless. It isn't a problem. Cunt.
OK, so if you don't have the willpower to live, go ahead and show us what's after death Rambo
> I've probably comprehended nihilism more deeply than you
But you haven't. No subjective meaning to life will be worth anything. Life a shitty life or a good life, you won't mind when you die. A good life is just an illusion, has the same power as a bad life, so just put yourself out of the misery of existential dread and end it all
Nihilism challenges the very core of the person. If you seriously think that you can be a nihilist as a cop-out from facing the inevitable future, and still be content with things, then you aren't a nihilist, you just are a hedonist, only with a better understanding of the universe than the average hedonist
> b-but everything is meaningless...
I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing that the idea of everything being meaningless shouldn't be something that most people can handle, seeing as how nihilists are just living a huge lie
>misery of existential dread
Why "should" someone do that?
>But you haven't.
Bullshit. I'd bet a nut I've spent longer thinking about the finality of my own existence and the meaninglessness associated, since it was something that came to me at an early age.
>so just put yourself out of the misery of existential dread and end it all
I don't experience existential dread. Not everyone is weak like yourself.
>Nihilism challenges the very core of the person.
Indeed, and I overcame it.
>If you seriously think that you can be a nihilist as a cop-out from facing the inevitable future,
I'm a "nihilist" (actually an existential, moral, and mereological nihilist) because I don't believe these things to possess external validity, you projecting idiot.
>then you aren't a nihilist, you just are a hedonist, only with a better understanding of the universe than the average hedonist
Hedonism is a fundamental component of the human neurology, since we work on a basic carrot/stick arrangement. But I am not a philosophical hedonist, as I don't think pleasure has an inherent moral good, nor pain an inherent evil (this is actually a lesson I take from the stoics).
>I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing that the idea of everything being meaningless shouldn't be something that most people can handle, seeing as how nihilists are just living a huge lie
Well you're an idiot, and evaluating others by your own limitations. This is the kind of stupid shit that leads people to claiming the pyramids were built by aliens because they themselves can't build a pyramid.
Should do what? Experience the dread? Avoid it?
Experience dread, act upon it specifically through suicide.
> Bullshit. I'd bet a nut I've spent longer thinking about the finality of my own existence and the meaninglessness associated, since it was something that came to me at an early age.
And whose to say I haven't done the same?
> I don't experience existential dread. Not everyone is weak like yourself.
Sure you have, the very challenge to your "self" hasn't kept you awake for at least a single night, wow soooo brave and so not fake
> Indeed, and I overcame it.
You aren't supposed to. Not because >I< say so, but because such a challenge to the ego would crush you, letting your ego know that you mean jackshit and nothing will ever make you happy because at the end, it's lights out for good, and its as much as a bad experience as a good one
> I'm a "nihilist" (actually an existential, moral, and mereological nihilist) because I don't believe these things to possess external validity, you projecting idiot.
No shit you're a "nihilist", and probably an "existentialist" and "moralist" too, since you keep acting like you serious are ready to look oblivion in the eye, disregarding the challenges brought by nihilism
> Hedonism is a fundamental component of the human neurology, since we work on a basic carrot/stick arrangement. But I am not a philosophical hedonist, as I don't think pleasure has an inherent moral good, nor pain an inherent evil (this is actually a lesson I take from the stoics).
That's the only point we seem to agree on it seems
> Well you're an idiot, and evaluating others by your own limitations. This is the kind of stupid shit that leads people to claiming the pyramids were built by aliens because they themselves can't build a pyramid.
Thanks for it look like you don't take yourself serious if you think I'm evaluating others on a subjective basis instead of something that edges on ego death, then going on a weird mini-rant on ancient aliens.
>Sure you have, the very challenge to your "self" hasn't kept you awake for at least a single night, wow soooo brave and so not fake
I said I don't. Not that I never did. Been there, done that overcame it.
>You aren't supposed to. Not because >I< say so, but because such a challenge to the ego would crush you, letting your ego know that you mean jackshit and nothing will ever make you happy because at the end, it's lights out for good, and its as much as a bad experience as a good one
Yet here I stand.
>No shit you're a "nihilist", and probably an "existentialist" and "moralist" too, since you keep acting like you serious are ready to look oblivion in the eye, disregarding the challenges brought by nihilism
Only the first thing. I think existentialism is pointless, and as I said, I'm a moral nihilist. What challenges are being disregarded?
>Thanks for it look like you don't take yourself serious if you think I'm evaluating others on a subjective basis instead of something that edges on ego death, then going on a weird mini-rant on ancient aliens.
Are you autistic? I'm saying that you're assuming that because you can't handle something, no one else can't handle it. Which is exactly the kind of shit that keeps the ancient aliens people ticking. You're the same brand of idiot.
> Thanks for it look like
Meant to write "thanks for making it look like", my bad
Because humans are by nature a curious species, and a species that tends to like picking easy solutions. The best way to figure out what's after death is death itself. Why not just get over it, get off the ride, because either way whether you enjoy it or not, it's going to be as if you weren't on the ride or if it never even existed
But we won't. Nobody (at least, that I know of) has killed themselves because they followed their nature and tried to find an answer, and they shouldn't.
Nobody should kill themselves, because maybe nihilists are right and this is it. I don't agree with nihilism because it seems flawed, but hey, live your life by your own rules. I personally believe that there's something after death, but I'd like to live long enough to know who I'll marry, what I'll do, etc. instead of faking it in some cosmic dream or whatever.
>Why not just get over it
Because there's no point.
> I said I don't. Not that I never did. Been there, done that overcame it.
My point is that existential dread isn't something you can get over, it will always linger
> Yet here I stand.
Good, let it stay that way
> Only the first thing. I think existentialism is pointless, and as I said, I'm a moral nihilist. What challenges are being disregarded?
The challenge to your "self". Humans strive for survival for one purpose: life. To live, to exist, to continue on. The idea that this all stops may seem normal at first, but being the kind of species we are, able to analyze things by assigning meaning, the very idea that everything we are doing and everything we live for will end should impact humans in a negative way. Yet we continue to live on, in the face of mortality.
> Are you autistic? I'm saying that you're assuming that because you can't handle something, no one else can't handle it.
I'm not using myself as a control, I'm saying that nihilism promotes an idea that overrides our biological imperatives.
> Which is exactly the kind of shit that keeps the ancient aliens people ticking. You're the same brand of idiot.
Again, if you are just going to start rambling on about unrelated shit, don't cry when people say they can't take you serious
>Because humans are by nature a curious species
Specific humans exhibit specific types of curiosity within specific contexts. This cannot be accurately generalized into "humans are a curious species" any more than specific humans exhibiting specific types of caution within specific contexts. Yes, some people go out and see the world, while others are born, grow up and die in the same house.
>species that tends to like picking easy solutions
Again, cannot be generalized to the extent you are with any accuracy.
>Why not just get over it
Why just get over it? If there is no "meaningful" distinction between either, why choose one specifically? Likewise, why should finding out what is after death concern anyone to the extent of taking action?
>because they followed their nature
Assuming that such a thing as "human nature" exists and that people follow it seems like you're trying to impose some objective, external meaning.
This is correct. Absurdism is the inevitable conclusion of everything
Living is pointless and meaningless yet you live cause you are alive.
albeit anythining universal can be interpreted as god since it would have to be there before all
>My point is that existential dread isn't something you can get over, it will always linger
Prove it.
>The challenge to your "self".
There's no challenge to my self. Dying is part of my self, I've come to accept it.
>I'm saying that nihilism promotes an idea that overrides our biological imperatives.
No. It promotes an idea that overrides a deep seated cultural imperative.
>Again, if you are just going to start rambling on about unrelated shit, don't cry when people say they can't take you serious
It's not unrelated, unless you're an idiot. My point is they stem from the same fundamental incapability to put yourself in someone else's headspace, and instead assuming that your limitations are universal. It's pathetic.
>You do kind of need an experiential foundation for this stuff to make sense on any deep level. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
I fucking hate this argument, and most "nihilists" resort to it
>oh you just don't get it duuuuude
fuck off, we get it. nothing has any intrinsic value or meaning and its people that give things their own meaning. its just a pointless conclusion, what are you going to do with this "knowledge"?
you're still going to grow up, get a job, maybe settle down and start a family. you'll still buy consumer goods, watch movies, listen to music even though the enjoyment you feel from these things is completely artificial. preaching about how you're so enlightened because you're enough of a pretentious cunt to actually say that its all meaningless in the long term doesn't achieve anything.
the logical conclusion to nihilism is either absolute hedonism or suicide. pick one and just fuck off with your shitty philosophy. i recommend the second.
Everyone's going to forget all about this yearning for "values" once the next real war begins and we are forced to "wake up" and return to our dormant archaic values that thousands of generations had before us and sought to immortalize in the form of gods and goddesses. Strength, courage, beauty, fertility, skill in war and such.
I may add that those archaic values were what made the West great to begin with. Why did Rome conquer? Among one of the goddesses they worshipped was Victoria. The personification of victory in war, she crowned the victor with a wreath of laurels. All the senators were forced to sacrifice to Victoria before the senate convened. The symbolism of this is clear as day. This is just one example. I could mention Mars who personified war. He was worshipped as well. We get our the term "martial arts" from him, the arts of Mars, something the romans were very interested in.
stay triggered. go pray to your god he'll make sure everything's alright you fucking faggot. read a book that's not the bible
I spent half the thread telling you why nihilism refutes itself and you still think I'm arguing that nihilism is the one truth.
I remember why I stopped coming here
Darkseid please go