Mercury Grand Marquis

you can only tout subjectivity to a certain point. Past that, it's objectively bad. Compared to even other 2011 Fords, the Crown vic/MGM had a pretty bad interior. Cheap and crappy materials, no features/removed features.

the early 2000s models were actually better equipped than the last few years of the vic.

Not to mention that you can get a way better rwd v8 sedan from dodge today (and I only mean the last few years). dodge finally has their shit together

The only thing objective about interior design is the utility that it lends you. If you claim objectivity on anything else you're just talking out of your ass.

Also
>dodge finally has their shit together
>FCA
Ha.

>hurr stop criticizing my PERFECT car

I've had three crown vics. 88, 04, 07.

the 88 actually had the best interior because it was the nicest. had super comfy seats, cool features for 1987, etc

I'm not an interior fag but also consider that you spend 100% of your time INSIDE the car when you're using it, so it is something to think about

The intake manifold problems were mainly pre 2001 cars I believe. They used to use plastic intake manifolds which were prone to cracking.

The only problem I experienced with my Grand Ma is the HVAC blend door in the dash. Which is a bit of a pain in the ass to replace. I nigger rigged mine so it either blows only A/C or heat. I just have to pull the passenger airbag out to move the flap during season change. To replace the part you have to pull the dash out.

Fuel mileage is shit if you do a lot of city driving.

I love my boat though. Pic related.

>"My point of view is the only one that matters."
I guess they do say that autistic people have difficulty understanding how other people feel.

That being said, I personally like malaise era comfiness over modern interiors as well.

I specifically said they haven't aged well, and that term refers to other options you could get today.

I wasn't talking out of my ass, because I'm right. Compared to what you could get just 6 years later, they haven't aged well. If you could get pretty much the same thing today, they would be a better option.

god crown vic fags are seriously the most autistic crowd out there

I had an 07 P71. The interiors are fine.

>infers that I think only my view matters
>calls me autistic

Fine, it has a super utilitarian interior that's awesome and great. you're gonna love the car and there's nothing wrong with it at all.

why did you ask for people's opinions in the goddman OP if you don't want to hear them?

Same fag, here. If you can, try to find the LS Premium. It has steering wheel mounted audio controls. Reaching a half mile to the radio is pain in the ass.

I'm not OP, fag.
>crown vic fags are seriously the most autistic crowd out there
Too bad I've never owned one, dummy.

Pre 2003. The big issue is that on Panther bodies, the alternator bracket mounts directly onto the front of the intake manifold, which is made of crappy plastic. Over time temperature change and constant flexing from the alternator being attached causes a nice big crack to split open at the front of the intake, which just so happens to be exactly where the main coolant passage is so it spews everywhere and you probably overheat and require a tow.

For 2003 onwards, they replaced the coolant passage with a mostly metal assembly- you can easily identify it by just popping the hood and looking at where the alternator is mounted to. If it's shiny, it's the new style; if it's matte black it's the old style. 2001+ Panthers can take 2003+ intake manifolds no problem if you want to prevent failure ahead of time; earlier Panthers will have issues due to the heads being different. 01 is the year the 4.6 got 'Performance Improved' (PI, not to be confused with Police Interceptor) heads, which are identifiable by the square intake port; earlier cars have a smaller round port so a new-style intake won't line up properly unless you also swap the cylinder heads.

beat up and torn cloth seats and rubber mats for floors with an AM/FM only radio, no steering controls, and very basic HVAC isn't very nice. you'd be way better off getting a normal LX or even an LX sport. sometimes they have leather at least.

but that's just my opinion, which isn't allowed even though the OP asked for it.

you were defending them as if you owned one, fuckstick
also:
>drives a shitty cadillac with a terrible engine
you're even stupider than the OP. At least the Vics have always had amazing engines that last forever.

>you were defending them as if you owned one
I make it my initiative to point out when people are spewing drivel. You seem to have some sort of personality disorder, so I'm probably just spinning my wheels on you.

I'm not spewing drivel by pointing out the fact that vics have subpar interiors.
(you)

Spark plugs in the 4.6 don't screw into the manifold, they go into a hole and then thread into the heads. The coil packs go on top of the plugs and are then held to the manifold with a single screw that's easy to reach on everything except cylinder 4 which can be a little tricky.

>subpar
In whose eyes?

I replaced the seats in mine with a less used cop car. The result was heavy duty seats designed to sit in for hours. Rubber mats is easier to clean. You can/should change the stock head unit anyway. The HVAC is the same as any other car.

>Muh steering controls
Seriously? This is grasping at straws.

Comfy

a lot of people's, certainly not just mine.
>someone disagrees with me, nooo!
get over it, kiddo

You also seem to have not read the OP. sorry for triggering your autism.

God damn guys. Thanks for those that have contributed good information.

>The HVAC is the same as any other car.
He might be confusing it with the digital HVAC unit you could get in earlier cars. I've got one and it's the same shit as dials, only difference is you can push the "MAX AC" button if you want air conditioning NOW instead of taking the third of a second to twist two knobs instead. You've still gotta roll the intensity wheel thingie up anyway because auto-temp never puts it on max airflow.

>Chrysler invented the K platform, which meant most cars of theirs were front wheel drive and used foreign components and/or design cues to ease the pain of the oil crisis
>GM followed suit shortly after
>jap automakers realized there was more profit in making fwd econoboxes than rwd cars
>Ford, as a giant fuck you to the compact FWD meme all automakers were pushing, makes a large sedan platform with a V8 and RWD

>these rwd barges outlived the fwd econoboxes that GM and Chrysler made

That was a truly absolute madman move on Ford's part.

they still eventually pussied out instead of updating the platform

If you make the statement that something objectively has poor aesthetics you dig yourself a grave. Not everybody has as shallow of a perspective as you, pal.

The panther only survived because it was the best selling fleet car for police and taxis.

With the increasing grip of the EPA, it was only a matter of time.

>mmmuh subjectivity! you aren't right!

sorry honey for hurting your precious feefees

To be fair, that's more a matter of supply and demand. I'd imagine they could have updated it if necessary (IIRC it was something to do with electronic stability control being necessary on new cars, while Panthers only had optional electronic traction control), but aside from fleet sales which were on the decline, no one was buying V8, RWD road-boats anymore when the new hotness by 2011 was crossovers and hatchbacks.

I honestly like minimalist design, and the bullshit extras in the LS do not mean much to me. I would rather have a grey or blue car before red, but the merc near me is local and cheap.

>the wild user retreats into its shell, feigning remorse and superiority, hoping its pride will remain intact

its a panther body
parts are everywhere, simple to fix, and is unkillable

400k of abusive miles is nothing on these cars

if you go look at a newer Taurus for instance, you'll think the LS is barebones.

they come with rear view cameras standard, heated seats, BLIS, automatic sunroofs, you name it.

If it makes you feel better the LS electronics are actually cheaper to fix, if they even break in the first place, which is pretty rare

>keeps replying saying retarded shit because he got BTFO

I'll keep it going sweety, that way it doesn't feel as bad to admit defeat.

Wasn't just that. Upcoming safety standards played a role too. The platform had one reprieve already for 2008 when side curtain airbags were required and somebody at the last minute found that placing the air bag in the seat body would work. The thing just wasn't going to be able to meet 2012 or 2013 standards without so much updating that it would be easier to start over so they killed it.

>"If I try to be condescending, maybe he'll go away. That means I win an argument on an anonymous anime website."

>irony: the post

how's it feel to get BTFO all the time, loser?

100,000 miles aren't much if the car's been taken care of. Remember, this is the same powertrain that brings cop cars and taxis to 300,000 plus- a civvie model doesn't have the external fluid coolers of an Interceptor, but it's also not idling for six hours on end and then being run at redline for fifteen minutes straight. They all drive like boats, but they're comfy and almost fun boats; 03 onwards handle noticeably better.

Parts are easy as hell to find, unless that part is a cup holder. Most everything can be done in your driveway (except the fuel pump, as it turns out, which requires either a lift or cutting into your trunk) with basic tools, maybe some really big and long sockets for odd stuff like the nuts holding the back seat in place. Crown Vics and Grand Marquis are identical other than the badge and the headlights/taillights; Town Cars have unique body panels, interiors, and some underbody stuff as a stock TC has a two inch (or was it 4 inch?) longer wheelbase than the other two.

is right that the interiors are old, but I wouldn't call it shit- you don't have weird controls you'll never get used to or anything, there just isn't a lot of extra features on most models beyond switches for the windows, a radio with either tape deck, a CD changer, both, or a tape deck and a 6-disc changer in the trunk, some cup holders and a cigarette lighter, sun visors, a rearview mirror, heat and air conditioning (which both work fantastic, by the way- the A/C better, the heat isn't quite a Volvo but it's damn good) etc. It's a car, no more and no less, and I'm okay with that because I grew up in boring family sedans and so I'm used to road tripping in a box-on-wheels with nothing much to entertain yourself other than a spotty FM radio and a Game Boy, but if you're used to built-in Bluetooth connectivity and GPS and things like that you'll be left lacking.

Figured safety was an issue too, but wasn't sure exactly what the changes regarding that were. Either way, fuck the government, fuck the EPA and fuck the commies, let us have our two-ton deathtraps and to hell with everyone else.

>sweety
>honey
what a fag

>literally "I know you are but what am I."'
We should cease replying to each other. I know you'll message again just so you can get the last response, but hey, whatever helps you sleep better.

In your opinion why would a civic be better than a marquis?

Because it's a Honda

To expand on the identical part: the two have had the same drivetrain for decades, but the body varies depending on year. The two main generations past the old box-bodies are '92 through '97 ("aero" body style) and '98 through 2011 ("whale" body style). Up to 97, Crown Vics have a more sloping roofline almost like a GM B-body while GMQs have the thick C-pillar that the Crown Vic would also gain in '98; 98 to 02 the two share most of the body other than the front and rear fascias and the fenders, and from 03 onwards the Marquis also uses Crown Vic fenders and the headlights, trunk and taillights are much closer to the CV. Things to keep in mind if you need to do a junkyard run for parts.

03 is the big year for suspension and frame changes, prior to that the Panther platform had been unchanged pretty much since its inception. Other notable years: 2003 is the first year with rack and pinion steering (replacing recirculating ball), 2004 was the first year the cop cars got the larger airbox setup taken from the Marauder (civvie cars never got it), 2005 is the first year for drive by wire (replacing the manual throttle cable; drive by wire sucks on these cars). There used to be a site that had a whole list of year by year changes for the Crown Victoria- mostly accurate for the Marquis but it was off by a year or two or had slightly different options here and there from my reading; just google "crown vic yearly updates" or similar and look for the page hosted at 'pontiacperformance.net,' the actual site went down months ago but Google's cache of it should still work.

Not him, but it'll get way better gas mileage, parts may be easier/cheaper to find and easier to work on, easier to park, won't stand out in traffic, people won't think you're eighty years old, etc. On the flipside, no V8 torque, no bench seats, no fantastic visibility, no burnouts and no 22-cubic-foot trunk.

>Civic
>easier to work on than a Panther

Someone pls??

Some people like transverse inline-4s, I dunno. I like being able to almost literally sit in the engine bay of my Marquis while working on it, but my hood supports have also gone bad so I have to prop it up with a shovel or I'll get decapitated by about seventy pounds of steel hood.

thank you

No problemo. I like barges.

Just remember if you put stupid spotlights on it or install crappy HIDs we'll call you a faggot.

I do not really care about flares, and whistles. I just want a reliable car. I'm about to get the fuck out of my parents place again, I do not even know how long Ill keep a house, but at least ill have a car.

Worst case scenario, you can lay sideways and sleep across the bench seat pretty easily.

If you're not sure about your future living situation, get a fucking van. I'm not joking.

I'm still trying to decide what to buy really, but for some reason I really want a crown vic or a marquis.

That is also what I have always had in mind. I have had an early 2000's Dodge caravan before, and I fucking loved it. I wouldn't mind another one.

I'd personally recommend the 2005 model year. My dad's is up over 280k miles now. The gen after that is fucking dogshit though. Would also recommend any full-size van platform.

but i suppose we should stay on topic

Mine only seems to not want to stay up in the winter. I don't know why.

After I moved back into my folks place its as if Iost all my previous motivations, but I wouldn't mind another one.

Taking out the back seats were pretty nice

was*

but yeah grand marquis

To go with this, you don't even need a fullsize rape-van, most minivans will do just fine.

Caravans are good despite the memes. My family's had three- an old second gen boxy Caravan, a third gen Voyager, and a fourth gen Town & Country- and never had any issues even with all the glass-transmission issues. Hell, the Voyager had well over 300k miles when it finally had to be retired, and the engine was still purring like a top, there was just too much structural rust to keep it on the road (thanks, New York!). They act and drive like big cars and have loads of space- we've got a Sienna for the van now and despite being a big ol' box on the outside, the inside is way more cramped both in the front seats and in the middle and rear cargo areas due to the thick pillars, tall floor and roof that curves inwards. Can't speak for the newest and last generation of Caravan, though, no experience with that one. The seats in the older ones are easy to pull out if you want more space and if it doesn't have that fancy Stow-n-Go Seating shit.

If you do get one or even think about it at some point, definitely pop the hood and check which engine it's got. Both the Chrysler 3.3 and 3.8 engines are pretty good, no real issues I know of- the 3.3 has better fuel economy obviously but both of them will make a minivan haul more ass than you'd expect, probably because they intend for it to carry around a full nuclear family and half the softball team instead of one-two people and some groceries. The older ones with the inline-4 from the Neon are junk- not enough power there to move a PT Cruiser, nevermind an actual minivan- and the Mitsibushi 3.0 is a shitheap, stay away from that at all costs.

Think it's something to do with the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid inside the hood struts, mine is the same way- works okay (usually) in winter but in summer if I hold it just right I can watch the fluid bubble and leak out.

thanks man

I would also recommend the C1500 platform.

Shit, that means my hood works the opposite of yours, huh. Maybe it's just Ford black magic, like the mysterious gap between the halves of the front bench seat that leads literally nowhere but somehow acts as a wormhole to another fucking dimension the instant you drop some change or a pen into it.

Don't sweat it, Panther bodies and Chrysler minivans are apparently my life specialties and it's always worth helping someone out even if most people see them as disposable, forgettable shitboxes. If nothing else it's a nice break from the usual Veeky Forums benchracing and badge-war garbage.