/utg/ - Undertale General

>On top of the above it also makes no fucking sense that all seven of the humans that fell into the underground just happen to end up the most determined beings in all of existence which they would have to be since we know for a fact that you can reset outside of the underground since its possible to do it post TP
The easiest way to get past this would be to just say that to acquire the reset ability in the first place, a determined human must fall into the underground, or through the barrier, or be struck by sufficient amount of magic via any of these, otherwise the entire universe doesn't make a lick of sense.

>and there is even special content for doing so in Sans' lab.
AFAIK, the photo is bugged up the ass, as from a coding standpoint it appears in Sans' workshop immediately after the Asriel fight, without any resets.

Why are you capitalizing "reset" and "quit"?

But Chara is with Frisk. Their corpse is "left behind". Chara's essence, consciousness, whatever, is within Frisk now.

>I like to think their final deaths to Asgore looked less like a fight and more like assisted suicide.
That sounds kinda miserable, why would you like that?

Because they're autistic. I'm trying to mean this in the nicest way possible, but there's this one guy around here who Highlights many of the CONCEPTS of the Game, like they'RE writing COMIC Book dialogue all the goddamn TIME.

>AFAIK, the photo is bugged up the ass, as from a coding standpoint it appears in Sans' workshop immediately after the Asriel fight, without any resets.
Its still clear that the intent for it was to only be gotten after you reset and that its suppose to be the photo you see if you don't stay with Toriel. The work around is most likely just because Toby didn't want the game to save during the ending in case you turned it off or something

Chara a shit

Everyone except Frisk a shit.

That's right.
Asriel's shit.

>We know its not since there is actually content that you can only see by doing so. Aka how the photo in Sans lab changes.
I get the rest of your post (my personal headcanon is that toby is a hack), but how does this change anything? The photo changes because the game is reset after Sans leaves the underground. Why would it make a difference whether Frisk or Chara resets?

See the issue here is that you're making up more and more shit to justify your theory when the much simpler and likely explanation is that not all of the fallen humans could reset

occam's razor

Yeah, but from that standpoint, if you stay with Toriel, there's essentially a photo in Sans' workshop that depicts a future that may not have even happened the way depicted, since you'd think that photo would be different as well if you might be running Soulless Pacifist.

I'm also pretty sure Clamgirl overrides that photo with the "don't forget" one whenever it occurs, so that may be Toby patching holes. I dunno, Dog has weird ways.

Frisk a cute

Chara's a human though
No, they're characters in Undertale
No vore

It doesn't but TP makes it clear that Frisk is the determined one since they do all that can't actually kill me shit

If you're going to invoke Occam's Razor, you do realize that even trying to explain why individual fallen could or couldn't reset falls in line with it, right? The justification behind 'all of them' vs 'some of them' is essentially the exact same amount of headcanon.

Post-genocide, Chara says that they had "your" determination. It's not exactly clear whether "you" is supposed to be Frisk or you, the player, but it seems like Chara has access to it either way.

Hugs

Theres nothing saying the photo doesn't get taken either way just that you don't see it when you stay with Toriel
Not really because i'd agure that it makes much more sense if only a few of them could reset since its a giant logical stretch to say all six could and that it in fact breaks suspension of disbelief

That's as headcanon as Charrator.

Because it's a great twist. Monsters like Undyne believe Asgore's fights with humans were these grand battles. Toriel probably imagines that these kids trying to run away only to be horribly slaughtered. The truth is that these fights in the final timeline are completely anti-climatic. The human is the one that walks straight into Asgore's path, and they do nothing but nod quietly to Asgore's questions. Asgore feels like he known, fought, and killed them several times, and yet now they come and die without putting up any shred of resistance. It really drills in why he's so broken and why his diary is the way it is.

>hey user, its time for some real worship!

Just thinking about some stuff. Typing this as I think.

Patience reset an uncountable amount of times. Being a "Patient" soul, they were willing to wait who knows how many tries to found a way to actually survive Level 1 to find a way to make it through alive and stuff. But eventually, after exhausting all possible routes they could have taken, they QUIT, seeing it impossible.

Bravery just sped through without much thought, and once they came to an obstacle they couldn't pass (i.e. Light Blue Attacks), they kept rushing at it fists first with no success until they Rage QUIT.

Integrity was on a Neutral-Genocide run. They reset only to try again at killing their victims. I like to think that they were very self-aware that they weren't doing it out of "self-defense", but because it was easy and it was FUN, and maybe even believed it was the "natural course of things", that humans were naturally supposed to kill the weaker monsters. Idk.

Perserverence persevered. They studied and used their ability to turn back time effectively, in order to take notes and study the Underground, as well as figure out a way through. Eventually, they calculated all possible options they had, and seeing that there was literally nothing they were able to do, they QUIT.

Kindness probaby said "Oh, Mr. Dreemurr, you monsters need my soul to get free? Okay, here, take it! :) " *Suicide* *QUIT*. Completely selflessly. Or maybe not exactly like that, more like they decided to QUIT because they felt it wasn't right for them to leave while everyone else can't.

Justice's mind was probably on justice (I know, it's hard to believe, but just bare with me...). Whether they felt the monsters deserved to "pay" for something at first, IDK, but in the end, they probably felt that THEY were the ones who needed to pay, on humanity's behalf, and so... they QUIT.
Sorry. I'm not autistic.

when will it be alphys

>Sorry. I'm not autistic.
But why do you capitalize them?

I've scheduled her in for next Thursday.

Not him but the game makes a thing out of capitalizing certain words and names

>Not really because i'd agure that it makes much more sense if only a few of them could reset since its a giant logical stretch to say all six could and that it in fact breaks suspension of disbelief
And I don't see why that would be a case. They tried, they failed, they reset, they failed, they died. Six tried and failed and the seventh succeeded, this magic number 7 is such an old concept of storytelling it's been in place for hundreds of years now. Trying to employ maximum realism inevitably results in asking why you have no option to just stay with Toriel the very first time you die and might end up resetting.

With that said, believe what you might.

That's a typographical thing, mostly, I don't think it should be transferred to regular written text. But even then, why capitalize "reset"? That word is used a lot by the game but it's never capitalized.

The best Ending will be achieved when Asriel/Flowey absorbed all souls in the universe, Humans, Monsters (Including Napstablook), Animals (if they have souls), and aliens (if they exist and have souls).

I can back this assertion with evidence.

NarraChara, and Chara's essence being within Frisk, is 100% canon. The narrator literally says "It's me, Chara." Chara, at the very end of Genocide, says that you're (Frisk's) power awakened them from death.

Frisk's SAVE File and Menu have Chara's name, Frisk has Chara's memories, etc.

People who refer to genocide frisk as chara are the actual worst.

>(Including Napstablook)
TOO FUCKING FAR
I WILL RIP THAT FLOWER TO SHREDS

Your use of quitting for essentially dying is actually more disturbing, but more importantly,

>and once they came to an obstacle they couldn't pass (i.e. Light Blue Attacks), they kept rushing at it fists first with no success until they Rage QUIT.
>Kindness probaby said "Oh, Mr. Dreemurr, you monsters need my soul to get free? Okay, here, take it! :) " *Suicide* *QUIT*. Completely selflessly.
>Eventually, they calculated all possible options they had, and seeing that there was literally nothing they were able to do, they QUIT.

Are you fucking shitting me? This way you described them makes all of the six sound like a bunch of dribbling retards, lambs to the slaughter who were too stupid to even realize they died and just took it as 'quitting'. Like holy shit.

>Trying to employ maximum realism inevitably results in asking why you have no option to just stay with Toriel the very first time you die and might end up resetting.
Because its a video game and you the player are bound but its rules. The other six humans are not unless you want to go with the theory that the undertales are actually in a video game, as in the setting takes part in a video game and some characters can become aware of it like Sans and Flowey, which makes the entire story fucking pointless and meaningless

>NarraChara, and Chara's essence being within Frisk, is 100% canon

The entire point of Sans fight is that hes trying to make you rage quit

Rude.
Please post politely to have a nice discussion, my dear user.

Even nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/134759853195/the-narrachara-theory-proof says that NarraChara in other routes is not canon, just plausible.

user, I like Charrator, but it's a fucking headcanon.

But it sort of IS Chara at that point. Their reflection shows Chara's face, as the Narrator (Chara) points out, Chara actually controls the body directly at certain points, and overall the behavior and personality exemplified is the exact opposite of the behavior shown in True Pacifist or at least Neutral.
What I was trying to say was, they got to the point where they decided to let themselves stay dead. Bravery, though... they were just the type to not think things through, and never once considered "You know, those light blue attacks might not hurt if I stay still...".

But anyways, it's not like they came to Mount Ebott for happy reasons anyway. That's the place you go when you want to disappear.

Something I find myself wondering is how is it that the ones who go to mount ebott to possibly kill themselves are also the ones with high levels of DT? ... although, to be fair, Flowey did kill himself too, at first...

Nah.
>It's me, Chara
On geno. No evidence for other routes.
>Your power awakened me from death.
"Power" is ambiguous here. For all we know, power = LOVE. If anything it makes more sense that way because Chara defines themself as the feeling you get when your stats increase.
>Memories
Do not require Chara to be conscious. If anything, makes less sense if Chara is conscious. If Chara is deliberately trying to help, why show these memories with no real context or explanation? If Chara is passive and just observing, why show these memories at all?
>SAVE file and menu.
Could be deliberate misdirection on part of the game. Prior to TP, you shouldn't be able to know you're playing as Frisk at all if you aren't spoiled.

I meant disturbing in the context and explanations of that post.

Fine. I get that assigning a personality to characters we know nothing about is a difficult thing and at best will only every be single-digit percentages correct, but slapping the virtue they're associated with on them and then considering that the singular thought of their entire existence, is a rather boneheaded approach that will make all of them appear like idiots.

Better?

>Bravery, though... they were just the type to not think things through, and never once considered "You know, those light blue attacks might not hurt if I stay still...".
That makes them sound functionally retarded, not brave.

There are multiple reasons why people would go to Ebott, ranging from exploration, to bravery tests, to running from someone, to wanting to die, to trying to discover legends etc. The idea that people who go there inevitably want to kill themselves is based on a sample size of Chara, and even they are depicted falling, not jumping into Ebott right in the intro.

Summarize the last thread in 5 words.

The kids that fell into the underground didn't need high levels of DT, only higher than monsters. Since monsters don't generate DT according to Alphys, any human that fell into the underground had bullshit time control powers by merely existing. Chara never reset either because they never learned about it due to intentionally offing themselves or the resets only became possible after Gaster's blew himself outside of time and space.

just another undertale general thread.

TL;DR

Sorry this is so half assed
>Asgore
pbs.twimg.com/media/C_hkDMiUMAA1iZd.jpg:orig
>Asriel
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbxzGcWsAA4vjq.jpg:orig
>Toriel
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbsX4AXgAIsTpa.jpg:orig
>Flowey
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAb1oqqXoAQU0yR.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcTQowXgAAzDqS.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcLOzeWAAEr8ii.jpg:orig
>Sans
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbv2VNXYAIZlbz.jpg:orig
>Papyrus
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAX4SUZVwAEDpGY.png:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAL6KllV0AArG9H.png:orig
>Mettaton
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAdPK6NWsAAFnv7.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/CjN7sTUUgAMiuOX.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcMC30WAAAj6oo.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbwpSGWAAA4kZR.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbkDhRXsAA_u6s.jpg:orig
>Skeletons
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcEMZ3XkAA8pOP.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcZIuUW0AA3mT6.png:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAb95YNXoAA3KyL.jpg:orig
>kingdings
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcn8JQXYAARnaD.jpg:orig
>Chara x Papyrus
pbs.twimg.com/media/C_zEueWU0AAHINn.jpg:orig
>Frisk x Flowey
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcMzkzXsAA2mVI.jpg:orig
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcaVgmXoAAsVNx.jpg:orig
>Flowey x Frisk x Sans
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcKjgoXYAICVn6.jpg:orig
>Mettaton x Napstablook
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAa4uTgW0AAfdd1.jpg:orig
>Gaster plotting the murder of Grillby
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAas9hsVwAE6X59.jpg:orig
>Underfell Mettaton
pbs.twimg.com/media/CiGK5vpVEAEWhoY.jpg:orig
>underfell Grillby x Underfell Muffet
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAXRU8uU0AAgAKM.jpg:orig
>Female Asriel (maybe?)
pbs.twimg.com/media/DAbvd2RXcAEybXf.jpg:orig
>the many faces of Azzy also Frisk is there
pbs.twimg.com/media/C_uS5e0V0AAOg47.jpg:orig

shit shit shit shit shit

Hey it makes no difference how Chara's soul was actually delivered to Asriel, right?

>the many faces of Azzy also Frisk is there
Best kind of pic.

Thanks Twitteranon.

This works on the assumption that you can only reset underground within the barrier which we know is false

By "Power", Chara was referring to Frisk's human soul and determination.
>I am Chara.
>Thank you.
>Your power awakened me from death.
>My "human soul"...
>My "determination"...
>They were not mine, but YOURS.
>At first, I was so confused.
>Our plan had failed, hadn't it?
>Why was I brought back to life?
>...
>You.
>With your guidance.
>I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.
>Power.
>Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.
>HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV.
>Every time a number increases, that feeling...
>That's me.

The first time they referred to "power", they were referring to Frisk's human soul and determination. The second time, they were referring to the raising of stats.

>Do not require Chara to be conscious. If anything, makes less sense if Chara is conscious. If Chara is deliberately trying to help, why show these memories with no real context or explanation? If Chara is passive and just observing, why show these memories at all?
That's mostly a point to show that they are indeed connected. So connected that they are practically one individual before the end of TP and Geno reveal the truth of the split.

>Could be deliberate misdirection on part of the game. Prior to TP, you shouldn't be able to know you're playing as Frisk at all if you aren't spoiled.
I think it's more like, at that time, both Frisk and Chara were sort of.... "disoriented", and just as their subconcsiouses sort of merged, so did other things, such as Chara's name bleeding over and becoming the 'name' of the Human in general. But that's just a theory. It could also be, the act of Saving, Loading, and Resetting is a mutual thing shared between them, they are both sharing Frisk's determination and Chara's memories act to fuel it and strengthen it. Or... something, IDK.

The point is, Frisk and Chara are bonded together. Chara was awake the moment Frisk was. They don't "wake up" through the raising of LV. They are conscious the entire time.

It works on the assumption that you can only reset underground and Chara is still stuck down there. Like a proximity effect to their corpse.

>and Chara is still stuck down there. Like a proximity effect to their corpse.
which we know is false since you can reset post genocide TP

The reset seems to happen in the underground, whoever is doing it. Flowey stays behind and Flowey pleads you not to reset.

At certain points but it's not like I can go get a drink while chara does genocide for me.
At the throne room I agree, 101% chara but until that room, and that includes the sans fight, frisk still has control with the exception being those few moments chara actually does something.
>inb4 "Since when were you the one in control?"
I can reset, I can go run around in circles in snowdin, I can constantly ride the conveyor belts in hotland, and there isn't a thing anyone can do about it.

Part of the reason this bothers me so much is because for some reason people get the idea that frisk is some holy being who is perfectly nice at all time, even pacifrisk isn't perfectly kind all the time.
Especially considering they do ALL the leg work in genocide, not chara, not anyone else.
The entire time it's the player pressing the fight button.
The same exact way the player presses the mercy button in pacifist
With the possible exception of that last attack on sans, one single attack compared to the hundreds that frisk did.

Monsters do generate DT. Monsters just generate lower levels of it, unless they are Undyne. Stuff like DT and Magic and stuff would have to be a factor in all Souls, and each soul would vary. But a certain type of Soul would produce a certain level of something by nature, and then the actual individual soul itself and it's personality would affect it. Like, monsters aren't really that determined. But Undyne is UNDYNE, NGAHHH, EATING ROCKS, SUPLEXING BOULDERS, PASSION, ANIME, FOR EVERYONE'S HOPES AND DREAMINGS, HEARTS BEATING AS ONE, THE HEROINE, etc, so she as a monster is different, and produces extremely high levels of DT because Determination is pretty much her personality.

See this entire thread so far is why I was saying that people shouldn't just assume that their headcanon is true and state it as such since its very clear that people here have a lot of different ideas and theories.

>By "Power", Chara was referring to Frisk's human soul and determination
No. Chara never specifies that power = soul and determination. All they say is that the human soul and the determination did not belong to them, but to Frisk/the player. If anything, when they refer to "power" again, in the same speech, they talk about it in terms of increasing stats, both the reason and the goal behind their reincarnation. It's all there in the speech.

It is pretty open to interpretation. But you'll have to accept that my interpretation is just as valid as yours.

>That's mostly a point to show that they are indeed connected...
Still does not prove consciousness or narration.

In any case, Charratoris far from canon.

HERE'S SOME ACTUAL CANON FOR YOU:
TOBY FOX IS A HACK WITH INCONSISTENT WRITING.

>and produces extremely high levels of DT because Determination is pretty much her personality.
With that said, even her DT is only high when put next to other monsters, it likely wouldn't ever reach that of a human, without some outside boost, especially because her body simply doesn't have the physical matter necessary.

Thanks user, you're really nice and sweet.

The fact of the matter is, we don't know Frisk unless we go True Pacifist, and we don't know Chara unless we go Genocide. Both entities are present in ALL routes and both pretty much share responsiblity for anything done up to at least Hotland, but it's the specific route that defines them and what we truly know about them for an absolute fact.

I don't know if demon Sans should or shouldn't die from the wave of power, so I thought about both outcomes, started making the sketch for both of them, and made a poll.
strawpoll.me/13023268

Please stop complaining about it in that way. If you think something someone says isn't canon, tell them it isn't canon. But don't talk about "stating their headcanon as true", because that gets horribly confusing when someone isn't aware that what they're saying isn't canon. When you do that you're accusing someone of deliberately doing something wrong when they might just be making a mistake.

I'm not, but do note when I go way over the line, compared to the lax standards of the site/general.

Blookstanaps was getting stuff at the spider bake sale!
Toby thought everything out!

someone take a pickaxe and please dig blade runner soundtrack out of my brain please it's been playing in there nonstop for days now
or I can just listen to genocide CORE and Another Medium too I guess

Undyne's DT in Neutral and Genocide routes appear to be affected by how heroic she is and just who and what she is fighting for, and doesn't "melt" until she's weakened enough.

>someone tells someone else something that isn't true
>point out that its not actually true
>person gets triggered and start bitches about me being mean to them
Get over it? Stop trying to pass off stuff as canon when its not? Don't be a little bitch when someone corrects you?

Pick one of the above

>>Female Asriel (maybe?)
Yeah I'm just gonna fap to this as trap Asriel.

...

It's okay, my dear user. If you ever get angry over something silly, calm down and relax.
Think of it like chilling with friends on your favorite place.

user, she would collapse in a puddle the moment she stopped fighting, because the fight is what keeps her together and supplies her power. It's not that she only melts if she's weakened, it's just basically a monster version of battle rage

The problem is the way you correct people. You don't say "actually, it isn't canon that all humans could reset", you say "stop pretending your headcanon is a fact" which immediately ruins the conversation because it contains an accusation.

Just correct people instead of screeching about headcanons.

What if someone came up to Alphys, brought up everything she is insecure about, and then concluded with "Mew Mew 2 is the best, and the only installment that isn't complete and utter trash", and then Alphys gets super mad, and ONEPUNCHes the person into oblivion and their soul shatters to nothingness.

How would Undyne react?

You're the least popular character for a reason, Alphys.

She'll scoop Alphys up and noogie her going "I knew you had it in you! That's my Alphy!"

Au where it turns out Alphys wrote the pacifist ending

What would actually happen is Alphys would vore the person who did that and Undyne would never know.

AU where Sans, Papyrus, and Undyne discover Alphys' secret stash of SansXAlphys and PapyrusXUndyne fanfiction.

...and respond to it by bringing Alphys' fantasy to life in the form of a foursome.

Just a matter of which timeline she's in

...

au where alphys

doesn't have low self-esteem

Why is it that every single floweypot comic picks at least one character to completely shit on?

...

Because popular Tumblr comic creators are hacks.

Except the creators of Charataker, and the ambassador.

What makes this even better is pic related, Papyrus naming Alphys 'lab rat' because he hates her so much.