Saving or investing in yurop - 2017

RavySnake
RavySnake

Sup,

I live in Southern Europe (Iberia) and given that in a few months LePen might win the elections and make France leave the Euro and thus crumble the value of €.

I'm really uncertain about the best way for me to invest my money, given the impending doom. I was about to start investing in a traditional way (i.e. Savings account and Index Funds/ETFs), but this might not be the best time for this. This also complicates my aspirations towards living only from my savings.

Wat do?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_currency_area

JunkTop
JunkTop

Put at least half of your savings to BTC and Silver. That way, when the euro crashes you won't lose anything.

Make sure to transfer your BTC to a safe and secure wallet that is not dependent on the organization or the internet as the organization may go bankrupt and the Internet might not be available during such a crisis.

Also, if you're wondering why Silver rather than Gold, well it's because Silver is less likely going to get you shot and the government is less likely going to confiscate it (Refer to the Executive Order 6102 in USA)

Lunatick
Lunatick

US bonds, hedge against Euro and stock market risk

5mileys
5mileys

LePen might win the elections
that's a good joke you got there but i guess after trump everything is possible all the retards are lose.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I personally know shit about finances but seeing the situation in europe and how france has been fucked over and over and over with terrorist attacks,riots in Paris, but he traditional burning of cars etc etc I bought some gold
(tpyou re right andnas i said i know jack shit but in europe gold is tax free so he gets in my case a 21%discount to begin with)
I wish le pen wins,and specially Merkel gets fucked over,the damage they done, the feeding and giving away of their money by the trillions to refugees etc etc...

Playboyize
Playboyize

I wish le pen wins
Enjoy the most bloated and highest taxed shit state in Europe going solo. At least the refugees are industrious. Can not say that much for the fkn French. Can't even be arsed to learn English.

Firespawn
Firespawn

I ain't french,but it will do good for them on the long run,I'm still wating to see any of the refugees working in something that ain't the equivalente of a government hand out (see working for the government)to keep them busy,and mind you there are hundreds of millions of basically unemployed leaching the system in germany and sweden and France.
Anyways my what I did is buy some gold and this year you have 2 excellent chances to dump it,german and french elections.I recomend you buy some for safekeeping and some for short dumping at election time.
In case you're really paranoid in the fall of the system buy also silver coins,they are more usable in a day to day situation,I sugestión wien philarmonics or any local central bank availeable currency although some old ugly coins will do too since you'll be using them for the silver not the face value

RavySnake
RavySnake

I wish le pen wins,and specially Merkel gets fucked over,the damage they done, the feeding and giving away of their money by the trillions to refugees etc etc...
you have no place on this board if you can't even see the picture from an economic point.
demographics in europe are fucked either migration or deflation and general dead economy that investors flee from.

RumChicken
RumChicken

t. borderline neonazi metal cuck

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

(Refer to the Executive Order 6102 in USA)

Which was repealed under Ford

It was a dumb move to begin with, a panicked reaction from someone who didn't understand the markets. It's unlikely to happen nowadays seeing how there's other means of storing value without the costs associated with metals.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Where did I not see it from a economic point of view?I gave the user what I thought was good advise and told him to check on gold instead of silver for gold is tax free.

You just said I wish le pen wins fucking retards I don't see your contribution significantly better than mine.

Illusionz
Illusionz

Split your stock/bond allocation based on age. 80/20 if you're young, for example.

Then weight your stock allocation by US/non-US. 50/50 is the roughly the most accurate split, going by pure market cap.

Currency fluctuations will be minor & cancel out because your equities are globally diversified. You also won't have to play the game of timing and guessing various markets, which you'll inevitably lose (hint: Le Pen isn't going to win).

Bidwell
Bidwell

thinking short term, betting against the euro might not be a bad idea

Inmate
Inmate

I don't see your contribution significantly better than mine.
yeah well i have no idea how it will play out. my country refuses immigrants flat out on all levels. i think we will be left on the roadside while countries that took them in in numbers will be much better off in 30 years or so. but who knows.

i can't relate to ops fear of eu falling apart. i think it has about as much chance as a meteorite hitting earth and causing ruckus and about as much we can do about it if it happens.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Just remember rule #1 when it comes to finance

Diversify, never put all of your money in one place, protect yo damn neck

for example the Jewish religion (either the torah or old testament, idk im lutheran) recomends 1/3 of your wealth in realestate, 1/3 in liquid assets (cash) and 1/3 in durable goods, so make of that what you will

TechHater
TechHater

I personally disagree on that aspect,about migrants being an asset.for reasons too off topic ranging from education(you have to school a 15 year old kid that doesn't speak the language so he will pull back the level of the class to kindergarten) to cultural issues and so on but that is personal opinion wich i only shared as an answer.

Saddly I do agree with op on the economic fears,lepen was first on the pols ever since she offered to hold a referendum like brexit on france,I also know the situation on france to some degree and they have had lots of terrorism and most people are kind of fed up with the situation.
It is farfetched but it might happen,since she is further ahead on the polls than trump ever was.if she wins and the referendum passes,then the euro without france makes no sense.regardless of the election the fact the pat this year we have holland, french and germany elections mean the euro will probably be jumpie at best and will drop before each of this elections.
I went for gold as a personal choice since im otherwise mostly iliterate on financial matters but will gladly dump it when the euro drops and the gold rises every time this year.
Also I'll keep some off in case the unthinkable happens and she wins (wich i wish out of pure love for france and my fellow europeans and personal preference,not from the financial stability point of view)
Ps nobody knows how will it play out that's why I was so happy to check I wasn't the only one with the same concerns

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Invest in big companies with international sales and dividends. The FTSE 100 index is filled with great companies like this (companies like Diagio, selling alcoholic drinks worldwide). These companies are protected from currency swings because their profits come from so many different territories. Try looking for ETF's in indexes like this.

whereismyname
whereismyname

No need to be afraid Jorge, LePen will never be elected, I'm French, I can assure you that

Nojokur
Nojokur

So uh... Just dump it all in a global ETF like iShares Core MSCI World?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

in 30 years you have a chance to build an entire generation from scratch with your own cultural norms and education deeply imprinted on them.

if you don't fuck it all up.

that is why i said in 30 years countries that can integrate them will have a definite advantage.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

that is why i said in 30 years countries that can integrate them will have a definite advantage.
you made no posts in this thread

in 30 years
why then

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Best joke ever . Lepen won't win . I live on France and Melanchon or hammon will . She is so damm stupid to win any election . Media are laughing at her because all she said is bullshit . She even said that what she said 2years ago was not what she said ahahah . I just pee on her .

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

t: Achmed

Techpill
Techpill

Melanchon or hammon will
lol no stop shilling

FastChef
FastChef

I agree that 30 years you CAN build a generation from scratch,on the same page I think in the last 15 years europe has idiotically been sowing the seeds of cultural discord and proof comes in all the bountiful harvest that they are reaping with crime rates skyrocketing,and educational levels dropping(kids used to be failed bow they simply pass through the system to avoid conflict.

I bet my money on gold for the election to drop or keep depending and i bet my future in asia if europe doesn't solve it's situation,I disagree with lepen but europe needs a Trump to kickstart it culturally,even those who opose him at least develop a sense of togetherness so muslims won't repeat Orlando when they have been marching together with lgbt etc etc I see it as a win win situation culturally and i wish the same for france.

Gold cuck as you called me but with today's rise in prices I payed for the investment,from now on till electoral peak high is probably all gonna be profits.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

France will have committed suicide if she doesn't win

MPmaster
MPmaster

Shillary supporter detected.
Go back to your cuckshed.

Methnerd
Methnerd

You are french and not voting for him?
Its like you hate your country user.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

bitcoin and icn

happy_sad
happy_sad

lol wtf, Le Pen wins and the internet is not available? Jesus Christ go to /pol/ freaks.Is this how you reacted on Brexit? Money to be made on the pound those days.

Why not look into Forex and short the Euro? You could make a lot of money that way.

what is the picture from an economic point all i see are tons of migrants coming in and ruining a way of life. some things money can't buy, for everything there's master card. you have no place on this earth.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

nah i fucking hate shillary and glad she lost. it's just that usa fags were doomed the moment the candidates lined up. election was a mere formality.

SniperGod
SniperGod

what is the picture from an economic point all i see are tons of migrants coming in and ruining a way of life.
well it's their children we want really. the declining population rate means my pensions are fucked. literally game over so i don't even pay taxes try to save as much as i can. but most people of my age can't save shit. and i feel sorry for them. they will have a demographic far smaller than their own sporting them as the pension funds were long ago raided empty. we need the migrants to turn this shit around, and the short term problems are not even that painful as people claim them to be (see germany). i think we go fucked in this game hard by booting the refugees.

basically countries that have high standards of living and high gdp but declining population can buy themselves an extra century of prosperity if they integrate a few million migrants from poor countries. second tier countries that scraped by till now will get the shaft.

Nojokur
Nojokur

btw what i would do:
-give migrants permanent visas (not citizenship)
-they can apply for citizenship if they pass cultural exam and had 5 years of employment
-try to stop them from forming ghettos which would conserve their culture and keep them useless uneducated poor-fags
-finance their welfare if they make sure their kids receive good education, especially higher education
-ban all religious practice and symbols from public display (aside from like buildings, decorations and statues already established beforehand)
-make gun ownership absolutely legal for citizens (cause rape memes) that should keep the bad eggs in line
-citizens that pass range exams well regularly receive coupons redeemable in ammo or guns
-create some honorary award for citizens that lawfully and effectively protect their fellow citizen from harm, coming with a few years commission

idontknow
idontknow

user you are evil

Illusionz
Illusionz

you like?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Gold and silver. Bitcoin is okay but I think it's to volatile for large amounts of savings. Any other currency is debt not money.

Methshot
Methshot

Le pen will win. I thought that was obvious. Trump brexit. People are sick of the corrupt globalist agenda. Don't worry merkel is next

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Le pen will win.
i don't know much about her but she seemed like a generic low intelligence /pol/ poster so far.

if she wins france gets fucked too. opposing the globalist jew is one thing, embracing retardation and falling of the other side of the horse is an other.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

also it's just a general observation that people who oppose immigration haven't learned a fucking thing from history. two things are evident to me one you can't actually stop migrations. it's not gonna happen. two, immigrants can make a nation great a hundred thousand times greater than it was before. like the usa.

but these populist retards just want to build their power base on the basest human instincts and they don't fucking care about the damage they cause so long they can rob the country blind and build a new aristocracy from their family and close supporters. that's what happening in my country at least.

Nojokur
Nojokur

Silver is a horrible investment. Price moves with the economy since it's mostly a raw material, so it's useless as a hedge. Also, you'd have to stockpile two orders of magnitude more weight compared to gold. It's impractical and in case of the sort of crisis you describe with governments deciding to shoot people, I don't think folks will rely on a shitty thrid-rate material like silver.

Plus, a lot of European countries levy VAT. According to Google Spain has 21% VAT on silver. Brilliant investment right there, stuffing a sixth of your investment down the state's greedy throat. That'll show the government!

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

yeah vat is bad, if you try to sell to private buyers that must pay vat to buy from a shop you will not lose that much, if you sell at gram price you are fucked.

Playboyize
Playboyize

people who oppose immigration haven't learned a fucking thing from history
you can't actually stop migration
tell it to the soviet union and the eastern block countries, retard

immigrants can make a nation great a hundred thousand times greater than it was before. like the usa.
or make it a hundred thousand times worse like liberia, tibet, Brazil

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

these populist retards just want to build their power base on the basest human instincts and they don't fucking care about the damage they cause so long they can rob the country blind and build a new aristocracy from their family and close supporters

apart from the obvious projection of your power fantasies, it's amazing that you think to yourself you are making a smart argument while at the same time not realising that your conception of borders and free movement of people globally is an invention so fucking recent that 99% of people on Veeky Forums are older than it. You are literally a trend-following brainwashed moron.

eGremlin
eGremlin

tell it to the soviet union and the eastern block countries, retard

What? Are you serious? They had fences, walls, sniper towers and literal mine fields, and it didn't keep people from fleeing through the iron curtain by the dozen. At some particularly tumultous times tens of thousands illegally crossed borders, like during the Hungarian Uprisings (1956) or the Prague Spring (1968).

If the situation for the people is bad enough, you literally can't stop them from migrating, even when you shoot at them.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

eastern block countries
gee i live in one you mong, that's my problem. it's pure undiluted crap and only gonna get worse due to these policies. which would never ever in a thousand years work if we wouldn't had to force refugees at gunpoint to stay. none of them would otherwise. if they came this far they can get to sweden or germany in a heartbeat out of this craphole. but keep spouting uninformed bullshit!

You are literally a trend-following brainwashed moron.
nah, i just think outside the cuck box these newfag alt-right morons are stuck in.

i like to stay away from left and right and look at things form the perspective of workable or populist bullshit. both sides offer mostly populist bullshit btw. neo liberals are pretty bad and utterly deluded, but at least they try to pretend to be decent human beings.

small state smallest fucking state possible free migration free commerce free market. all the way! i don't want handouts redistribution meddling taxing the fucking state should stick to the bare necessitates. which are basically maintaining legal framework law enforcement roads bridges and military. even a good chunk of law enforcement could and should be localized. kinda like an elected sheriff system that gets commission from the town.

whereismyname
whereismyname

and it didn't keep people from fleeing through the iron curtain by the dozen.
I am sure everyone will be ok with it if they have an immigration of a dozen people a year. Not a good reason to accept millions of them every year.
Either way you are confusing keeping people in with keeping people out, you humongous retard. Some people escaped from the Soviet Union, but you can be damn sure almost nobody managed to get in it without authorization.

If the situation for the people is bad enough, you literally can't stop them from migrating, even when you shoot at them.
If you shoot them you can be sure the won't be immigrating any time soon. When the australians started shooting the boats that were coming by the thousands, magically no more migrants started trying to reach australian shores by boat. I guess their life conditions became magically amazing in their home country at the same time.

Supergrass
Supergrass

Not a good reason to accept millions of them every year.
the good reason is to stop population decline which is a fucking killer as far as economies go. you want to be a zombie economy like japan? go ahead keep the migrants out!
australians started shooting the boats
things that never happened

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

gee i live in one you mong, that's my problem
oh so you are speaking about the problems that don't affect you, typical leftist cuck
it's pure undiluted crap and only gonna get worse due to these policies. which would never ever in a thousand years work if we wouldn't had to force refugees at gunpoint to stay. none of them would otherwise. if they came this far they can get to sweden or germany in a heartbeat out of this craphole. but keep spouting uninformed bullshit!
Holy shit you are unironically retarded. I was clearly speaking about the 20th century, not the current year. The eastern block countries don't try to stop illegals from entering their borders now, but they successfully did it during the cold war. Learn to read faggot

nah, i just think outside the cuck box these newfag alt-right morons are stuck in.
You just called me alt-right even though I am none, you basically refuted yourself by thinking exactly inside a box and calling me the way pre-packaged thought wants you to think. Congratulations retard.

i like to stay away from left and right and look at things form the perspective of workable or populist bullshit. both sides offer mostly populist bullshit btw. neo liberals are pretty bad and utterly deluded, but at least they try to pretend to be decent human beings.
so you are a 15-year-old who thinks he's got the world figured out and everyone but him is a retard. People like you never amount to anything in life.

The rest of your post has nothing to do with the topic discussed so whatever

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

the good reason is to stop population decline which is a fucking killer as far as economies go
You are an absolute retard if you think mass immigration from third world countries is a good way to stop population decline. Wake up faggot, population decline is exactly what the elite wanted and have achieved, mass immigration is just the next step in their masterplan. Stop parroting the retarded bullshit you hear on tv by politicians ffs.
you want to be a zombie economy like japan? go ahead keep the migrants out!
If you think Japan's economy is bad due to bad replacement rates you are a retard. That is a future problem, their current problems have different origins, but how would an ignorant like you know that?
things that never happened
inform yourself

farquit
farquit

oh so you are speaking about the problems that don't affect you
it affects me, my country is going down the crapper exactly along the same lines le pen and trump represents. you have serious blindfolds on dude.
but they successfully did it during the cold war
that's not true tho the only way to keep people in was to threaten them with their families they had to leave behind. you never lived in that crap system but you are not afraid to praise it you fucking little peehole.
You just called me alt-right
no, i actually did not, but i'm not expecting much from you at this point.
you basically refuted yourself
in your fucking dreams maybe
so you are a 15-year-old
i wish i was 15 years old when you were born tho.
The rest of your post
is just an example how you won't find a popular political mold you could try to stuff me in to be happy about yourself. it doesn't really exist anymore.

iluvmen
iluvmen

you humongous retard. Some people escaped from the Soviet Union, but you can be damn sure almost nobody managed to get in it without authorization.
I'm sorry, could Mr. Smartass explain to this "humongous retard" why people would be fleeing *towards* the SU in the first place? That's like saying, "Gosh, the Syrian borders are top notch! Well, millions flee the country, but sure as hell almost nobody enters it without authorization!" Guess it's time to hire Assad as a consultant, he truly has a grip on the whole closed border situation.

I guess their life conditions became magically amazing in their home country at the same time.
Strange how this doesn't happen in Africa, despite hundreds of refugees dying at sea in the Mediterranean every year. It's almost as if the danger of dying becomes irrelevant once you don't have a perspective in life anymore. Oh well, and let's not talk about the dozens of boats that still keep coming every year, despite the Australians turning them back (by my account) or shooting them (by your account) either.

Yup, borders definitely work 100% if you just wish it hard enough.

Inmate
Inmate

it affects me, my country is going down the crapper exactly along the same lines le pen and trump represents. you have serious blindfolds on dude.
you are a complete retard if you think your economic and social problems come from stopping hordes of third worlders from wandering in your streets.
that's not true tho the only way to keep people in was to threaten them with their families they had to leave behind. you never lived in that crap system but you are not afraid to praise it you fucking little peehole.
Again, confusing keeping people in with keeping people out. Trump doesn't want to stop americans from travelling, he doesn't want to stop people from leaving the country, in fact he wants to kick people out of it. He simply doesn't want illegal people coming in. That is absolutely doable as history shows, which refutes the arguments "hurr durr muh free movement of people is impossible to stop hurr durr". Everything else on your part is just damage control.
no, i actually did not, but i'm not expecting much from you at this point.
you pretty much did but whatever, if you say you didn't I'll take your word for it
in your fucking dreams maybe
Nope, I even explained how you refuted yourself. Sorry if you are too dumb to understand things even when they're spelled clearly to you
i wish i was 15 years old when you were born tho.
wtf is that even supposed to mean?
is just an example how you won't find a popular political mold you could try to stuff me in to be happy about yourself. it doesn't really exist anymore.
More like you think you try not to be in a political mold because if you did you would have to be accountable for your shit opinion instead of saying "hurr durr everyone is retarded but me". Too bad your opinions are so dumb and shallow that you pretty much end up unawaringly becoming part of the most banal and normie political mold of the time. Your opinions are parroting of stuff not even kindergarten kids find deep or illuminating.

TreeEater
TreeEater

I'm sorry, could Mr. Smartass explain to this "humongous retard" why people would be fleeing *towards* the SU in the first place?
You are obviously a retard. I am not going to lecture you on the fucking history you should have learnt in school instead of spending your time smoking weed with your lazy friends. For one, the Soviet Union had an economic collapse later on, but in those times it wasn't nearly as bad, although clearly behind the West in terms of living standards. So yes, lots of people could have wanted to migrate there. In any case, the discussion here isn't "if" or "why" people should migrate, but if it's possible to stop waves of immigration into one's country. And the answer is: YES! Period.

Strange how this doesn't happen in Africa, despite hundreds of refugees dying at sea in the Mediterranean every year.
Nigger, there's a fucking fleet of european navies that literally go and pick up migrants 200 metres away from the Lybian coast. This is how it works: migrants buy a shitty boat. Before even starting they call the emergency number of european navies. Those navies arrive and pick them up near the lybian coast. As soon as they see them arrive, the migrants make holes in the boat so that they can be saved. The only times those retard drown is when the boat they spot is not from the navy but is some fishing boat, and therefore nobody saves them.
Video related
youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw
It's almost as if the danger of dying becomes irrelevant once you don't have a perspective in life anymore
That must be why the number of migrants went up by 100x when Merkel said "refugees welcome" and nobody gave a shit about leaving their countries before that.

StonedTime
StonedTime

you are a complete retard if you think your economic and social problems come from stopping hordes of third worlders from wandering in your streets.
no, it comes from an aging society with serious problems about the workforce learning new trades and huge huge structural unemployment and pensioner heavy demographics that is simply unsupportable as of now and getting worse.
hurr durr muh rape monkeys
pfffht
Again, confusing keeping people in with keeping people out.
in the cold war the eastern block tried to keep refugees in not out. i'm not confusing shit. everybody wanted to leave this craphole. a lot of people did.
Nope, I even explained how you refuted yourself.
you did no such thing you just try to give words in my mouth but they don't fit.
wtf is that even supposed to mean?
it means i'm probably older than you by 15 years.
More like you think you try not to be in a political mold
nah classic libertariansim is not a thing anymore sadly. it was almost a comfy fit.

Nojokur
Nojokur

Merkel said "refugees welcome"
she said that for a very good reason, germany has the economical muscle to accept a lot of migrants and integrate them counterbalancing the demographic decline typical of developed countries. demographic decline -> economic decline. that simple. at best if you advance in technology and make production more efficient you can stay afloat but will not grow.

you will see 30 years from now countries accepting refugees will again outperform those that did not.

the short term shitstorm is overblown but i must admit even i don't want shitskins on my streets causing ruckus. people will adapt imo on both side. a few decades from now you will not see what the big fuss was about.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

no, it comes from an aging society with serious problems about the workforce learning new trades and huge huge structural unemployment and pensioner heavy demographics that is simply unsupportable as of now and getting worse.
I am not going to discuss the problems your country has, especially when I don't even know which country it is. At any rate most of those problems you listed are common in developed countries riddled with immigration in Western Europe, so clearly immigration isn't a solution to them.
hurr durr muh rape monkeys
the fact that you have to make up such retarded strawmen that in no way reflect my words identifies you as a puerile, dishonest loser.
in the cold war the eastern block tried to keep refugees in not out. i'm not confusing shit. everybody wanted to leave this craphole. a lot of people did.
Again trying to damage control out of the point we are discussing. Did they manage to keep people out? Yes or no? The answer, as you yourself admit by claiming "hurr durr there's no immigrants here we're all so sad" is YES. Your point was that it's impossible to keep people out, but literally your own fucking country did it. You are so brainwashed and shallow you disregard what's literally in front of your eyes to parrot talking points by tv politicians and kosher intellectuals instead who don't give a shit about giving straight facts without twisting them to serve their own agenda. Pathetic 2bh.
it means i'm probably older than you by 15 years.
Or maybe you can't even write properly and make yourself understandable...exactly like a 15-year-old
you did no such thing you just try to give words in my mouth but they don't fit.
I explained it very clearly. You said you think outside the box but then you literally parroted the box's most common talking points. You're a retard.
nah classic libertariansim is not a thing anymore sadly. it was almost a comfy fit.
It stops being a thing when you hit puberty

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

I am not going to lecture you on the fucking history
So if you don't want to debate facts... what exactly is the point of engaging you in this conversation? Just listening to your "witty" barrage of insults? Your performance is honestly quite sad and disappointing so far.

So yes, lots of people could have wanted to migrate there.
So we're down to pure speculation? A lot of people *could* want to migrate to Syria. It's obviously not true, but it's conceivable.

the discussion here is if it's possible to stop waves of immigration into one's country. And the answer is: YES! Period.
Repeat it often enough and it may come true. Certainly don't try to make a case for the notion or anything...

migrants buy a shitty boat
I honestly should have stopped reading the paragraph there. I don't know where you get your information, but it obviously has no connection to reality. Human traffickers buy the boats (you know, the ones in the title of the very video you linked), stuff them with migrants and then drive them out before abanoning them. Plenty of accounts show that the migrants don't even know how to operate the most basic equipment on a boat. I mean, how should they - they're jungle niggers. But sure, they buy boats and signal from the shore, showing their intimate knowledge of marine equipment and breaking the laws of physics in terms of radio range in the process. Crafty niggers! And all those fishermen ignoring emergencies, distress calls and international law are nasty devils.
Nothing in your paragraph apart from complete fiction and pure speculation even starts to contradict my argument that hundreds of them provably die every year. If anything, you make a point why none of them should die since they're all apparently geniuses, yet this clearly isn't the case.

nobody gave a shit about leaving their countries before that.
Right. Because before Merkel said "refugees welcome" everyone thought they were getting shot at the German border.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

germany has the economical muscle to accept a lot of migrants and integrate them
oh look another fucking meme with no grounds in reality. What's the point of arguing with retards like you that don't know what they are talking about? Keep believing what you hear on tv m8, I am sure you won't end up with a ten-foot pole in your ass, you will miraculously be the only one.
demographic decline -> economic decline
That's not true at all, for many reasons. But I would have to write for hours and literally teach you the basics of living to make you understand why. That's how retarded and behind in understanding you are. Btw demographic decline among natives is the exact wish and pursued result of the elite, it can be reversed in a single generations if they wanted to. But that's not in their plans, their plans have as next step mass immigration, hordes of it, and you keep swallowing their bullshit like the good unaware cuck you are.

the short term shitstorm is overblown but i must admit even i don't want shitskins on my streets causing ruckus. people will adapt imo on both side. a few decades from now you will not see what the big fuss was about.
lol this fucking goy. You have no idea how bad things will be 10 years from now. Literally half of kids in Germany between 0 and 5 years don't have German parents. Half. Let that sink in cuck. Add to that that you have no idea how catastrophic the next incoming economic and political crisis will be. When you find yourself surrounded by strangers who want to fucking rape and kill you it will be too late to change your mind.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

At any rate most of those problems you listed are common in developed countries riddled with immigration in Western Europe, so clearly immigration isn't a solution to them.
or maybe it is where is your proof immigration does not help countries? especially when the vat majority of economist say so? and they have some data to support their claim too.

hurr durr muh rape monkeys
hordes of third worlders from wandering in your streets.
yeah the implication was pretty clear to me.

Did they manage to keep people out?
i have no idea nobody wanted in. that was not ta thing. what you are saying is like "do prisons stop people from getting in? huh??" sure they would.
you literally parroted the box's most common talking points
no that's not exactly right tho is it? if you actually listened to arguments from both sides most of them ignore simple economics and demographics.
You're a retard.
what you are showing to be in this thread, i have no words for. i guess you win in this at least.
It stops being a thing when you hit puberty
when i hit puberty we still had communism.

Soft_member
Soft_member

oh look another fucking meme with no grounds in reality.
yeah sure germany is not the most powerful economy in the eu and eu is not the most powerful economy on the world... you totally got me there.
You have no idea how bad things will be 10 years from now.
i do, i can already see myself as a refugee shit will be so bad here.

w8t4u
w8t4u

So if you don't want to debate facts... what exactly is the point of engaging you in this conversation?
Except I have already given you facts, the ones needed in regards to the topic at hand. The URSS's living conditions were not as bad as you painted them. Sorry for being annoyed by your complete lack of basic education.
Just listening to your "witty" barrage of insults? Your performance is honestly quite sad and disappointing so far.
I like how you clearly avoid my arguments and focus on my wording, thus proving once again that you are faggot with no arguments that just likes to blow hot air out his stinky mouth.

So we're down to pure speculation? A lot of people *could* want to migrate to Syria. It's obviously not true, but it's conceivable.
No, many people definitely wanted to emigrate there, which is why they had police and secret services especially devoted to the problem. We are reaching levels of grasping at straws that shouldn't even be possible to be honest. Just admit your arguments were retarded and move on.

But sure, they buy boats and signal from the shore, showing their intimate knowledge of marine equipment and breaking the laws of physics in terms of radio range in the process
You are a fucking ignorant idiot. They simply call a fucking phone number and tell them "come save us". They all leave pretty much at the same time and the navy has instruments capable of finding boats in the distance. The migrants don't have to do shit you fucking retard.
Human traffickers buy the boats (you know, the ones in the title of the very video you linked), stuff them with migrants and then drive them out before abanoning them
Human traffickers sell the boats, that's how they make money you fucking retard. What's even your point here? What does that even change in regard to my arguments?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Nothing in your paragraph apart from complete fiction and pure speculation even starts to contradict my argument that hundreds of them provably die every year. If anything, you make a point why none of them should die since they're all apparently geniuses, yet this clearly isn't the case.
Holy shit how can one person be so delusional and grasping at straws? Are you being purposedly retarded? I have already explained you how some of them die. You can literally google a video of fishermen who were approached by a migrant boat that mistook them for an NGO boat and therefore the migrants drowned because the fishermen didn't have the means to save them.
I fucking showed you a video that tracked the boat and showed that they LITERALLY TAKE PEOPLE RIGHT OUT OF THE COAST, WHERE THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DANGER OF DROWNING BECAUSE YOU ARE AT FUCKING 200 METRES FROM LAND.
And yet here you are denying what's proved and fucking obvious and saying "hurr durr only speculation":
You retards won't even see truth if it fucking punches you in the face and knocks your teeth out

Right. Because before Merkel said "refugees welcome" everyone thought they were getting shot at the German border.
They didn't think Europe would be so retarded to just let everyone in. In the rest of the world politicians are not brainwashing people into thinking borders and law are just an illusion of "le ebil racist white man". In fact, try to cross illegally in any of the countries those "poor refugees" come from and see what happens to you, I fucking dare you cuck.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

I like how you clearly avoid my arguments and focus on my wording, thus proving once again that you are faggot with no arguments that just likes to blow hot air out his stinky mouth.

Right back at you. I have to take your word for me missing/avoiding your arguments, because you certainly do the same with mine. We're not getting anywhere with this /pol/-tier conversation.

TreeEater
TreeEater

And how would bringing hundreds of thousands of iliterate and giving them the pensioners money without any return for that investment help?
I understand your point of migrants wanting to live a better life,probably you had family members trying to go out of Soviet bloc in pursuit of a better life...but that ain't the case with those migrants,back in the day you talk about you would arrive to whatever more advance country alone with no help and bust your ass working a shitty job for peanuts learning the language and scared to shit to go back...compare That with getting free housing,an allowance,free language courses,government jobs...how is that compared to what is been done WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE PEOPLE (that's another reason they need to be booted,I understand if they held a referendum and asked for it but it was unilaterally decided and people resent that)
still most of them don't even bother to go with that and basically go on fucking the country they go to.its a mentality thing,you and i wouldn't go to another country and behave that way,i have lived out of my country for many years in different countries and cultures,I bothered to learn the language,bothered to respect the culture,I always considered myself a guest,I went the extra mile always and gave my seat for people in need etc etc,I never ever expected them to change their culture because of my decision to go to their country...that's not how they think...if you think so it's only because you have no idea of what you're talking.(i know you don't because you haven't dealt enough with them but any police officer that works the streets in those countries can't be a racist piece of shit simply by statistics,and they somehow got a profile...

In my case what I argued is that natives shouldn't be taken for granted,the government's focus should be on their citizens for governments are playing a competition on who is more tolerant without the consecuences and without using their own money

Snarelure
Snarelure

where is your proof immigration does not help countries?
What kind of retarded comeback is that? Are you trolling me m8? I wouldn't even know where to start. From social cohesion to crime, from islamic terrorism to fucking ghettos, from welfare to politicians pandering to special interests because they are compacted. I could go on forever, nigger just open your eyes.
especially when the vat majority of economist say so? and they have some data to support their claim too.
Economists don't say that immigration is inherently good, study more
yeah the implication was pretty clear to me.
The implication is that you project your pre-packaged opinions and bias onto others.
i have no idea nobody wanted in. that was not ta thing.
That was literally a thing. In fact a lot of people got into trouble because they were arrested for being "spies", which back then was a codeword for "illegal immigrant". It was pretty well known in the West.
no that's not exactly right tho is it? if you actually listened to arguments from both sides most of them ignore simple economics and demographics.
Judging from our conversation you are absolutely ignorant of both so I don't see why I should take your opinion about this into consideration
what you are showing to be in this thread, i have no words for. i guess you win in this at least.
nice passive aggressive attitude, cuck
when i hit puberty we still had communism.
sure thing kiddo

yeah sure germany is not the most powerful economy in the eu
It is the most powerful bankrupt nation among bankrupt nations. You will see what I mean when politicians and media stop hiding the truth from you. I would have to explain to much honestly, you are literally oblivious of the reality of the eu
i do, i can already see myself as a refugee shit will be so bad here.
not what I was referring to

SniperGod
SniperGod

Right back at you. I have to take your word for me missing/avoiding your arguments
What arguments? I have literally answered everything, while you keep accusing me of specularion even when I give you fucking hard facts and statistics. Stop humiliating yourself man, it's pretty pathetic at this point

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

From social cohesion to crime, from islamic terrorism to fucking ghettos, from welfare to politicians pandering to special interests because they are compacted. I could go on forever, nigger just open your eyes.
i love you ignoring the world at large as a positive example. the usa as a whole for example is literally made up of migrants. almost any nation if you go back long enough in history will turn out to be migrants.
Economists don't say that immigration is inherently good
they say it's good for the economy period. it's beneficial to a country from economic standpoint. there are ways to do it right and fuck it up. there are examples for both. migration in itself is net good for everyone.
implication is that you project your pre-packaged opinions and bias onto others.
if it was anyone else but _you_ who said that...
In fact a lot of people
again things that never happened except in your weird alternate history.
sure thing kiddo
again trying to pretend you are not half a generation younger than me...
It is the most powerful bankrupt nation among bankrupt nations.
oh jesus just shut the fuck up already. some things are subjective but how can you say retarded shit like that with a straight face?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

the usa as a whole for example is literally made up of migrants.
Migrants who worked for their pay

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

i love you ignoring the world at large as a positive example. the usa as a whole for example is literally made up of migrants. almost any nation if you go back long enough in history will turn out to be migrants.
Contrary to what your politcians tell you, the success of the US wasn't based on human capital. Also the US was never multicultural until relatively recently, it was always culturally anglo-saxon, and the immigrants were assimilated into that homogenous culture.
Also the US in the past never accepted illegal migrants, everyone who reached their shores was literally requested by the US and authorized before they even left. Illegal migrants were sent back.
they say it's good for the economy period. it's beneficial to a country from economic standpoint.
It imports consumers. That's literally all the advantages it has and nothing else. Those economists just tell you one side of the story because they are brainwashing you with propaganda.
if it was anyone else but _you_ who said that...
Again, you just accuse, but none of my opinions are pre-packaged like yours. Stop projecting user.
again things that never happened except in your weird alternate history.
Wrong. You probably don't know about it because your government didn't go around telling about it, but it was common knowledge in the West. There were plenty of communist cucks who just decided to cross the border, believe me.
again trying to pretend you are not half a generation younger than me...
I am 26, but you could be 80 for all I care, your opinions are still only worth the intellectual capabilities and reach of a 15-year-old, and on those standards I judge you
oh jesus just shut the fuck up already. some things are subjective but how can you say retarded shit like that with a straight face?
Oh user, if only you knew....start from this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_currency_area

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

silver
taxed in europe but:

germans have been fiddling the silver tax and reselling it, vat free for years. you can buy it with slightly more than gold markup in some cases.

i collect silver coins as a hobby, germany has been a main supplier next to my private contacts

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

I don't think you're getting it... When an economic crisis happens, Silver and Gold go to the moon. Think about 10-15x returns. Yes, they move with the economy but since the economy is screwed sideways they'll be sky high while fiat, stocks and bonds will drop by 70-90%. So even if it does have a 21% tax rate in some countries, it's worth it in comparison to just staying with fiat.

No one has been talking about the government shooting people, really anyone average joe on the street who finds out you have gold during an economic crisis could shoot you.

But really, if you can manage to keep it quiet then Gold isn't a bad idea at all either. The only thing that does worry me is if they will increase the tax rate on Gold and Silver so much that it becomes useless to sell it, even during an economic crisis. But for those kinds of cases, it's good to have some Bitcoin I guess because if you trade it locally you don't even have to worry about taxation, and that too is certainly going to go sky high once the general population will see the shitty condition of the economy.

Inmate
Inmate

Migrants who worked for their pay
because they let them is my entire point.

i don't think the people that migrated to the usa at whole were more intelligent skilled and moral than the migrants coming to europe now. and apparently based on usafags opinion it turned out all right.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

your opinions are still only worth the intellectual capabilities and reach of a 15-year-old
thankfully coming from _you_ that's not an insult at all.

Oh user, if only you knew...
i know exactly why germany is an economic powerhouse in the eu. i know they are the greatest beneficiaries off the market protectionism the eu bureaucracy provides. that hardly changes the facts that they could almost single handedly finance the rest of eu beside the big 4. i'm not saying it's fair or even good the french leaving the eu would be the perfect shot in their own leg btw. they are one of the great beneficiaries of eu even tho they net "finance" it on paper. same as my country that receives like 9 times more from eu handouts than it pays back is a gross loser of the eu as a system. our economy is pretty much dead ever since we joined. agriculture got killed by western state subsidized ones and we never really had much more to go on.

this all doesn't change the fact that germany is probably the full on winner of the last decades economically speaking.

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