Crown Vic Grand Marquis Town Car P71 Ford

Good to know. I was seeing lots of mint looking Town Cars for sale with 500k+ miles on them. I'd like a Marquis most with leather interior but they aren't as common as the other three. A nib pa

That's whet I'm hoping to hear. I just need a fairly new car. Nothing fast or terrible fancy just easy to maintain and inexpensive. My 99 ES300 has 270k and everything works perfect and looks new. Pretty incredible. Never a major repair needed. My 02 Mercedes E320 wagon is at 285k and is cool but the interior has not aged that well. Also had to repair/replace a fair amount of wear and tear parts but nothing crazy. Parts are just pricey. Great car though.

right? older than I would buy but so badass.

I have a '96 town car, 160k~ miles, none of the windows work right, the radio is fucked, there's a door actuator in the dash that clicks, but it is the most reliable fucking car ever. I leave it sitting for literally months at a time, and it never fails to start, ever.

I would 100% recommend a panther-body, but I'd stick to a crown vic, as they aren't loaded with the extra luxury bullshit the lincoln's and mercury's are. Would especially recommend the newest one you can get because more powerful engine and much better suspension setup. (in the police interceptors at least. no sure about civ shit.)

Unless you do 75% highway driving or more, I would stay away from the "granny geared" ones, like the Crown Vic LX, or the Grand Marquis without the "performance" options. My car has 2.73 gearing and it is downright lethargic in city traffic. It is perfect for highway cruising though. Gives you great gas mileage.

They are one of the best bang for buck vehicles out there, so it's hard to go wrong if you buy with common sense. Parts are cheap and easy to work on. Replace the shocks. Ford shocks are garbage; get new police spec KYB shocks off Amazon and it will make a huge difference an handling.

Good luck, OP.

The slight gains that police vehicles had were pretty much moot compared to the billion hours of idling the car in place and the general thrashing and lack of care they got.

Agreed. A High Performance Package Grand Marquis or higher model Town Car are the best. They are not quiet as cheap, but they are still cheap. Fleet vehicles are beat to hell. Especially Crown Vics, because they know that they can take it. There is virtually no performance gain between the two, and if you want you can just swap some police version upgraded parts on to yours.

I have a 98 Town Car, stock except for rear bags replaced with springs.
I bought it for $1500 two years ago with 170k and have put 50k miles on it, including a 4k cross-country trip last month.
Uses quite a lot of fuel and gets engine knocking if you don't use premium fuel. Otherwise, totally awesome and comfy as hell with only oil changes, serpentine belt, etc. Everything works except one back window. Cosmetically it is shit but inside breddy gud. Astonished it hasn't blown up yet considering how much I've beat on it.

>I'd stick to a crown vic, as they aren't loaded with the extra luxury bullshit the lincoln's and mercury's are.
Nah, it's the Town Cars that have all the weird stuff. Crown Vics and Grand Marquis are 100% rebadges of each other, the only differences being the lights, the badge, and maybe the leather quality. They've got all the same options available (as the P71 is a separate car under Ford's own classification, not just a Crown Vic trim level) and the same two 'levels of luxury'- on the CV that's base and LX (or LX and whatever the other thing is in the mid-2000's when Ford decided no more base model cars), and on the Marq that's GS and LS. CV and GMQ also share lots of body panels, moreso for 1998 onwards, and then again from 2003 on (the year the GMQ got CV fenders and quarter panels instead of the sloped headlights it had since '92).

>Would especially recommend the newest one you can get because more powerful engine and much better suspension setup. (in the police interceptors at least. no sure about civ shit.)
The last of the Interceptors have a marginally more powerful engine due to a new airbox taken from the Mercury Marauder, but really any 2001+ Panther will perform about the same, as that's the big year they got the performance-improved heads from the Mustang GT. The biggest difference for Interceptors is the rear end gears, they've got 3.27s standard compared to the normal 2.73s that mentions. He's kind of overstating it though, I wouldn't say they're lethargic in city traffic, just lazy. Plus, who's gonna cut you off? You've got seventeen feet and four thousand pounds of steel and pig-iron, and even if you'll die in the resulting fireball, people still have the "They don't make 'em like they used to" thought and so assume it's so solid they'll just bounce off if they try something.

This too. P71s have external oil/tranny/etc fluid coolers, dual exhaust from the factory, the shorter rear gears, a 17mm rear swaybar, etc., but they also spent their lives idling for five hours at once before being driven at redline for ten minutes at a time. Not great conditions for a car.

Also, they're still fucking slow by pretty much anyone's standards. They've got enough torque to put your head back when climbing hills or passing someone, but you're not gonna be winning any quarter-mile races against anything but a Yugo. P71s in particular- even with the shorter gears they're slower than the B-body Caprice 9C1s that they replaced in most areas nearly two decades ago.

They're not really supposed to go fast, though. The 4.6 2-valve just isn't meant for speed, which is why the Mustang got 3-valve versions in short order while the Panthers kept the ol' 2v all the way to the end of production. You could try throwing speed parts at it but you've still got two tons of weight to haul around on a platform dating to the late 70's. Mostly they're just durable boats that get you there regardless of how many curbs or minorities are in your way, and you can fix 'em with a folding toolkit from your trunk and some electrical tape. Speaking of tape though beware of fucky wiring on used Interceptors; P71s come with extra wiring and always-on power points for police equipment and lights but there's no guarantee it'll all still be intact and not a horrible mess of shorted wires once it goes into civilian hands.

If you can find a Handling/Performance Package Crown Vic or Grand Marquis, fucking jump on that shit. They've got most of the goodies from an Interceptor including the dual exhaust, power steering fluid cooler, etc. and have an even bigger rear sway bar. For any standard Panther a rear bar alone is a big improvement, as normally they come with NOTHING- hit up your local junkyard and find even a measly 17mm bar from a P71 and it'll bolt right on.

>Uses quite a lot of fuel and gets engine knocking if you don't use premium fuel.
Never heard of this and I did some quick Googling and apparently late-90's Town Cars got knock sensors earlier than the other cars and some of them were actually intended to be run on 91/93? That's pretty interesting, it seems there's some shenanigans going on with Town Cars having sometimes slightly higher compression ratios and a manual that says use regular but a sticker in the car that says use premium. Weird to say the least; the manual for my '01 GMQ pretty much says in as few words that it was designed to use 87, run it on 87, and if you put any higher in you're wasting money.

I just bought an 05 w/ 70ish on the od,
>Tfw comfy af

>posting the abomination that is the 06+ Grand Marq.

It's kind of interesting how the whale-body facelift followed the aero body's similar facelift, I only just noticed. Early Aeros had the grille in line with the headlights, late aeros put a body colored strip there. 98'-'02 the Marquis went back to the old slatted grille from the 80's and earlier Mercs, '03 it got the Crown Vic front end with the lights touching the grille, and then in '06 they gave it the same update as they did with the aeros (square off the grille and add a body-color strip next to the headlights).

Because I'm bad at describing things hopefully this shows what I mean.

You are better off with a Grand Marquis if you want reliability. Town Cars have air bladders, Crown Vics are often owned by irresponsible cop wannabes, P71s are abused to fuck by actual cops.

Marquis sometimes have air ride as well, it was a separate option from the GS/LS option packages (similar to the Handling/Performance Pack). Easiest way to check is just pop the trunk and look for the switch to disable the air suspension on the left side, near the fuel pump reset button. You'll notice it if it's there, and if it's not it'll be twice as obvious- mine doesn't have air ride, but the trunk liner still has the pre-cut square for the switch perforated with nothing behind it (good ol' FoMoCo penny-saving).

OP here. Great info dudes. I'm liking this conversation right now. Keep it coming.

...

To add to this, civilian Crown Victorias sometimes have air ride as well (it was an option on those too, obviously), but you'll see that less often just as a matter of seeing less civvie CVs than P71s period. For a number of years throughout the 2000's, Marquis out-sold non-fleet Crown Vics by ten to one or more, and numbers are similar for most of the two cars' runs since the 90's.

>how do we make the 06+ Marquis look even worse?
>make it an imitation Marauder
Fucking incredible.

Ha! Apologies! I do not really have a sense of what's cool for the Crown Victoria crowd. I just like the picture and never saw a black Mercury like that. Plus a photo bump works.

>I do not really have a sense of what's cool for the Crown Victoria crowd.
High-waist pants, senior discounts, Hogan's Heroes reruns, and required literacy for voting rights.

ignore him.

Lol your blend door actuator is fucking up too huh?

It's nice to see fellow Panther bros on Veeky Forums. I don't think we're ALL autistic redditors

Pre face-lift aeros were so sex

I've got a '98 grand marquis that was owned by a grandpa and has only 70k on it and if your coasting down the road and goose the throttle it makes this god awful clattering sound but if I drive with premium non ethanol it doesn't make that sound.seems like some need premium and some don't.

Yep. Started one day, haven't fucked with fixing it because the car never gets driven. It is the most annoying thing ever thought

Some of us are autistic 4channers!

I really like them myself, definitely up there with the 98-02 as my favorite Marquis. The 95-97s are alright but that grille is really off-putting, something's just weird about it, not to mention the obvious seam where the top piece of chromed outline meets the bottom piece instead of a one-piece grille like all the other Marquis have.

I do like the tail end of the post-facelift Aeros better, though, with the chrome going all the way around across the top of the taillights and the more subdued red to black gradient (pic related) compared to the high-contrast red and black stagger-stripes on the pre-facelifts. The 'sunrise' stripes in the rear of the 98-02 look much better because it's just different shades of red instead of going right to black.

Should probably make another image comparing the ass ends, too, huh. That'll be harder because apparently the number of images of the older ones from behind are few and far between.

I really appreciate that there were big variations in appearance between the years. Definitely a very old school practice on relatively modern cars, though not as extreme as way way back in the day with a different grille or different headlights or body trim or what have you from one year to the next year. Still something that was dying out by then and pretty cool if you ask me. I think it further reinforces the idea that it's the spirit of the old school American car living on in the modern age, as much as the market and regulations would allow at least.

There were some big changes, but other parts didn't change at all- i.e. pretty much everything between the front and rear wheels remained identical from 1992 all the way to 2011 on the Marquis, and the Crown Vic from 98 to 2011 when it lost the Caprice-style bubble roof and adopted the Marq's trapezoid C-pillar (which has since become an iconic feature of the Crown Vics- look at any fictional/name-removed-only cop car or taxicab sedan and it'll have it). Agree with the appearance changes, though- not quite as often as the yearly refreshes of the 70's and earlier, but follows the same spirit: change the front and rear clips, maybe update the engine a little bit, and leave the rest alone 'cause it sells.

Which of course isn't to say Panthers don't have year-by-year changes, because they absolutely do, ranging from easily noticeable stuff like the single-year rear quarter panel mounted antenna (2005) to the switch to Performance Improved heads (2001, midway through the 1998-2003 cycle and completely unadvertised) to the constant flip-flop between which rear gear ratios were available on the HPP cars and the P71, 3.27 or 3.55s.

When you do go to repair the Blend Door Actuator, have fun. It's not an easy job. I replaced mine when I did the heater core 2 years ago. It wasn't completely dead, but it was randomly clicking.

When you replace the BDA, replace it with a MOTORCRAFT one. Upon replacing the one in my car, I found that the old one was a Dorman (aftermarket), meaning that the original had already been replaced once, and the subsequent Dorman had failed. The best lifespan you will get will be Motorcraft. Given how hard they are to replace, it's foolish to get anything but the best.

Doing the heater core and the BDA took 14 hours. I remember at the shop we had christmas music playing and I nearly went insane from listening to 14 hours of christmas music straight.

Pic related.

nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1997-mercury-grand-marquis-gs/6266571564.html

Should the amount of new parts on this be concerning? I don't know if it's good because there is new parts, or bad since that many have needed replacement, gut is saying the latter.

All the things that can go wrong with a Panther has gone wrong with that car. I'll surprised he's only asking for $800. Would verify the workmanship of the repairs, though.

Is it concerning that all of those repairs were done at a relatively low mileage? Does some stuff just decide to go early on some panthers, or is that a sign that it's been driven hard to cause all of those issues to manifest prior to 100k?

20 yo NH car, I genuinely doubt it isn't affected by some rust.
Intake was notorious for blowing early. The thermostat, fuel rings, spark plugs could have been done when fixing the manifold. Ball joint is early, but not unheard of if rust related. Dunno about the diff stuff.
Honestly, just ask about it's condition and why it needed the repairs. The price is mildly suspicious, but it could be that the seller doesn't know that they've already fixed what goes wrong with Panthers. Assuming the repairs fixed their related issues, the only other things it could be expected to need are timing chains (100,000mi, per design, not expensive) and possibly the transmission. But since it probably wasn't abused like an interceptor, it'll likely be fine.
Keep us updated, I wanna know what's up with the car.

I see a bit of rust on the passenger side between the wheel well and rear door, and passenger side near the front wheel well. Not too bad though compared to what usually happens up here.

Do the post face life Aero's have plastic skirts covering the rockers? On my Taurus those skirts are what caused the vast vast majority of my rust issues. Trapped all the dirt,sand,moisture and salt over 17 years and killed that entire area of metal.

I sent a email a few hours ago so I'll report back with the awnsers I get.

Meant the driver side front wheel well

1999 Vic owner, here. My shocks are feeling like they're more than on the way out. Any links to specific parts from KYB?

I have this same issue with my 1999 Vic. I hate it.

This. What the fuck is this shit? Is there any way to fix that?

>radio is sound
I like this man.

POWERRRRRRR OF SOUND

I had no idea the older towncars shared the panther platform. How much parts commonality do the 1997 and prior panther towncars share with victorias and marquis?

Pretty much all of them. The Town Car, Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis have been platform-mates since the introduction of the Panther platform itself. TCs have unique body panels and interior bits, but under the hood they've always been the same as the other two- same lazy V8, same 4-speed auto, same suspension setup and exhaust routing, etc.

I had no idea, the different body panels made me think they were separate cars untill the 3rd gen ones. Thought the Towncar had a lot more heritage to it too, surprised that it only was introduced in late 1970's. I guess the Towncar and Continental gelled into one in my mind.

Yeah, the name changes can get kind of fuzzy at times, like how for the 80's you have to specify LTD Crown Victoria because at that point the regular LTD had been moved to the smaller Fox platform, or the overlaps between the Lincoln Continental and the Continental Mark series and the plain Lincoln Mark series and then you throw in the Town Car which at one point was the same as a Continental but remained fullsize, V8 and RWD when the Continental eventually became a Taurus rebadge and it's one giant fuckin' mess.

The only thing more parts-binned than the options sheet of a Panther body is its naming scheme.

The LTD Crown Victoria thing can absolutely drive a dimwitted parts guy insane. I have a 1990 LTD Crown Victoria and I have had no end of mentally impaired parts guys get confused when I call it an LTD Crown Vic. I'm a fan of the whole Panther platform though, never going to be a fast car, but it's comfortable and built with simple components so they last quite a while if maintained properly. Mine was garaged most of it's life and I plan on keeping it out of our shitass winters up North so it doesn't rust apart in a couple years, these old box body Victorias are getting really scarce anymore.

Front:
amazon.com/KYB-KG5458-Gas-a-Just-Gas-Shock/dp/B000C42S04/ref=pd_sbs_263_1

Rear
amazon.com/KYB-KG5521-Gas-a-Just-Gas-Shock/dp/B000C44DB6/ref=sr_1_5

I think that shocks are the absolute best bang for buck upgrade for our cars. The handling and ride quality difference was night and day. You want KYB Gas-a-Just Police spec shocks. The KYB civilian ones are too soft. No other brand comes close to the value of these shocks. They are a huge upgrade over the original Ford shocks too, people report that they last much longer and they definitely perform better from the start. Mine have nearly 50,000 miles on them and are like new.

The other thing to note is that on these cars the rear shocks are notoriously difficult to replace due to inaccessible and rusty bolts. I didn't even make an attempt and just had a shop do the rears. The fronts are easy and can be done in 30 minutes to an hour. Mine took more like an hour because the control arm stripped out where the shocks bolt to it. This is remedied by putting a bolt and washer on it. It is a little tricky, but if you don't have fat fingers you should be ok.

I have a 2001 Grand Marquis. 174k miles and running alright. I don't drive it a ton anymore since I bought a faster car.

Super reliable and nice and boaty.

2007 Gramma Key GS reporting in. Love it but probably getting a Lexus LS soon.

Used to have a 93 Townie that I enjoyed very much.

pic is of 93 TC, Teddy. I sold him a few years ago. I can still smell the whorehouse red leather.

I'm seeing some parts guides say that these are incompatible with the Vic. Any sources saying they'll fit?

It will fit on a 1999 Crown Vic. Amazon confirms that those are the exact listings that I purchased from. For some reason Amazon is saying that the front shocks (KYB KG5458) don't fit on a 1999 Crown Vic. This is wrong. If you search that part number, you'll find that another listing from a different seller that has the exact same part number fits on the vehicle according to Amazon. Again, those are the exact listings that I bought from, so I know they are correct. Plus if you look it up elsewhere you will find the same thing. Pic related.

You're right. I looked into it, and I think it's because they're made for the P71 instead of the Vic. Thanks for the tip, man!

Should I swap my head with a PI head? Is it worth it?

The suspension was redesigned in 2003 for the Panthers.

It's called Performance Improved for a reason.

2008 and newer will get you e85 capability.

I'm afraid I can't help you with that question. My experience is with the whale bodies.

Do it and yes. See if you can work in a tune, too.

Fuckin' noice. I always liked how the Town Cars kept their square asses and bodies all the way to '97. Shame about the melted-uterus look for 98 on, though.

If you can afford a Lex that hasn't been owned by a hood rat get it. There is no comparison.

As for P bodies... It's Ford. Cheap shit errywhere. Cheap to wrench tho. Basically same as your Ranger.
>P71
Get one that was driven by a service officer or detective. Patrol cruisers get banged up and have fucktons of idle hours. Yes idle hours aren't as bad as actual mileage, but they add up too.
>Mercury
Generally safer bet but remember to steer clear of anything hood rat owned. If you can find an old granny cruiser you will have maximum comfy with usually good maintenance records, genuine low miles and it'll be dirt cheap.

boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/d/1988-ford-ltd-crown-victoria/6274323547.html
Okay, somethings gotta be up with this if it's still online. The other 80's vic that was clean I saw down in mass was sold once I saw the ad 4 days after it was posted.

Miami doesn't offer many of these cars, and I seriously want a crown vic as my first car (or Honda Cr-V).

More city than highway, how old is too old with crown vics?

Generally I want something to not break the bank and reliable. I'll have to put time into learning how to do repairs, but overall I'm seeing it's a decent choice. With grand Marquis being a better version of it?

nh user again, nothing back from the aero marquis guy yet, if I don't here anything back by this afternoon I'll try calling.

Spotted this, ugly and needs a windshield, but is a newer one at least.

nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/2006-mercury-grand-marquis/6291286761.html

Assuming I could source a windshield at a scrap yard or something, how much would it run to get it installed?

Depends on where you go, I guess. Most people use glass repair places that bring their own aftermarket windows, not sure how much it runs for a place that installs glass for you.

On the bright side, finding a used windshield should be easy as hell, front glass and rear quarter windows are identical for every Grand Marquis between 1992 and 2011 and every Crown Vic from 2003 to 2011. The harder part will be getting it out of the donor car without breaking it, which is why most people don't bother and just go aftermarket.

What is the peak of the panther platform in terms of performance, reliability, comfort and value?

Does anyone else have a lot of play in their steering wheels? I've had it since I got my Panther over 6 years ago. I've replaced almost all suspension components. Any ideas what it might be, or is the recirculating ball system just that loose?

If you're looking for a reliable cruiser, granny-driven MGMs are definitely the best choice. I personally would aim for 03+ because there were intake manifold issues with the engine up to 2001 and in 2003 they got a revised airbox that opened up a few horsepower.

03+ at a minimum. I prefer 06 for the updated gauge cluster.

I had my steering shaft replaced after I bought the car and it corrected almost all the play. I think I just need a wheel bearing, next, for that last bit of loosely I feel from one side.

What did you spend to have that done?

Are you sure it's play in the wheel and you're not actually just turning the wheels? The power steering in Panthers is massively overboosted so the elderly and infirm can drive them. When someone says one-finger steering, they aren't kidding.

It's play. I have to do about 20-30 degrees of turning in either direction before the wheels turn. It's almost like there's a dead spot, because every time it's been aligned, the dead spot has moved, if that makes sense.

$400. If you can easily move the steering wheel with the car off, it's the shaft.

I'll check that next time I drive. What if it doesn't move easily?

Dunno. Steering rack, maybe?

Even on the recirculating ball version?

Yeah I agree. Its such a stately, classy look.

Even when I see some rusted '91 clattering around with broken air suspension and the rear window obscured by a hoard of garbage I have to think "wow nice shape that car has"

You live in Florida its like a magic land of Mercurys and Buicks no?

Is it possible to put dual tail pipes on a '01 TC with the single?

Sure. Why tho?

Idk im just mostly curious.
Also anyone know the power output on the modulars in the '01 TC with the single exhaust. I try wiki and it only seems to have it for the dual exhaust and I can't find any online. I know it's not a lot of just like to know.

Don't know, likely 200ish. If you're looking to make a speed boat, look at other Panthers. The TC is harder to modify than the others with less parts to share.

be cool and get a Marauder

Sticker on my filler flap says "premium recommended".
Shenanigans indeed

Use premium gas. Also, check for EGR valve restriction. With enough vacuum manually applied to your EGR valve the engine should quit, if not it's not opening fully

>The TC is harder to modify than the others with less parts to share.
Most notably even normal TCs (not L's) have slightly longer wheelbases so the exhaust won't directly bolt in to the right spots.

OK nh user again. I've tried calling the Aero marquis guy but the line is dead, emailed him again today. It's down to $700 now, so if I can actually get a hold of him I'll take a look at it.

Swap in DOHC Modular to a non Marauder. Yea or nay? Pros and cons?

The only con I can think of is the cost

Say you do it yourself, what would be the cost of the engine alone?

Different user, 4k-ish for a Mark VIII or Marauder pullout. Possibly lower if you pull it at a junkyard. You could also look into just swapping the heads, since the block is the same and the internals are said to handle 400hp comfortably.