Rev matching

>do you not into fasts?

>so much this
I am imagining some eurocuck lugging the engine to death trying to accelerate from 20kph in 6th gear
>and according to this thread they would think it's better for the engine to do that

Change up gears until your revs are sitting around 1000-1200 RPM Then put your foot down. That's lugging it.

Actually don't do this, just remember back to a time you did this by accident. It rattles and rumbles horribly and lugs the engine. Can damage stuff.

It's like shifting into too high gear on your push bike, its really really hard to push the pedals down. Now imagine that but with massive firey explosions pushing against the slow moving immobile cylinders and putting loads of stress on all the components and valves. Normally in a lower gear at full power the cylinder is moving faster so the explosion has room to expand into by pushing the cylinder away. But when its moving slower its harder to move and the whole car shakes instead.

>My WRX is downright unhappy at

You can keep it at low RPM without damaging the engine. It's when you try and go WOT from that you can cause damage. Just be easy on the gas.

If I'm commuting to work I don't downshift

>Just be easy on the gas
Get the fuck out

That's why I said

>Then put your foot down. That's lugging it.

As said it probably depends on the car. My old Lancer (RIP in pieces) drove like shit with the rpm below 1500 while my current 1.4tsi vag shitbox drives nice in fifth gear at ~1000rpm doing 50km/h.

Rev matching is a thing for "sportier" driving which most people won't do. With a stock car you drive calmly there's no reason to do it I guess. I only do it because it makes the ride slightly smoother and it's a nice feeling to get that perfect rev match when downshifting.

Ok, I got you.
I only ever do that by accident, but I'm guessing it's due to thinking the revs are high enough to support the higher gear, combined with not wanting to shift down and back up again.
So your take is that the damage/risk of damage by lugging is far worse than any incidental wear put on the clutch by the extra shifting?

>Change up gears until your revs are sitting around 1000-1200 RPM Then put your foot down. That's lugging it.
I know what you're saying, but don't think we all drive gutless 4 cylinders that lug at 1000 RPM.

Rev matching is only necessary if you are driving in high rpm and want change gear while you are in high rpm.

No, you should always rev match just to save wear on your clutch. For fuck's sake it's free money by not wearing out your clutch.

I DD a 1.8 litre I4 manual car and when just commuting I virtually never go above 4k RPM. 90% of the time I cruise around at about 1600-2500 RPM in cities and on the back roads. When approaching corners or intersections I do always try to rev-match though. Anyway if you generally keep your engine above 1500 RPM you never lug them. This definitely applies to gasoline l4 engines, dunno about other configurations.

Also the only times when I'll be above 4k RPM is passing, passing on the highway, downshifting before a very tight corner, for shits and giggles and... That's just about it.

Revving the fuck out of your engine while it's cold on the other hand... No, just do not ever do that. It's better to even lug a cold engine then it is to redline a cold engine. By the same logic, lugging a hot engine is very damaging and revving a hot engine is fine. Those are some very handy guidelines for manual transmissions imo.

It's okay when off the throttle and when just idling but yeah it lugs hard in the

OP here, I just still don't even know how you guys drive. Maybe it's because I've never driven a manual car that wasn't high performance, but say you are going around 40mph in 5th gear and you have to go around a 90 degree bend. Do you just shift into neutral, slow down for the corner, then shift into 2nd and either lug the engine or jerk it forward to match rpms?
I just really dont understand how you can drive a manual smoothly without rev matching or riding the fuck out of your clutch, regardless of your driving style or car.

>I just really dont understand how you can drive a manual smoothly without rev matching or riding the fuck out of your clutch, regardless of your driving style or car

You just... Let go of the clutch pedal slowly. And don't skip gears unless you rev-match.

>say you are going around 40mph in 5th gear and you have to go around a 90 degree bend

See the corner in advance, use the brakes to slow down WHILE pushing in the clutch pedal and downshifting to second. Then, keep braking and slowly release the clutch pedal when you have slowed down to about 15mph, all before you actually get to the corner. Then when you're at an optimal speed and in second gear, just take the corner.

If you feel like that's too slow for you then the only other way is to heel-toe and rev-match from 5th to second gear while braking to the optimal speed.

>approaching corner at 40 (4th gear in my car)
>~100 yards out: downshift to 3rd and let off throttle
>~20 yards out: downshift to 2nd
>take corner

No it's not the fastest way around the corner but it keeps me in gear without having to heel-toe (which only really works for me when I'm braking HARD)

>40mph in 5th gear and you have to go around a 90 degree bend.

Change to 4th preemptively. Or 3rd if it's sharp enough that you'll have to brake.

I typically change to 4th if I have to slow down for anything
3rd if its a sharp corner or open roundabout / junction where I may be able to continue on at speed
2nd if its a sharp corner or roundabout I'm going to have to slow to 10-20 mph to see if its clear

6th if the road is straight and clear and 40+

I ride a Honda shadow, and if I downshift without rev matching the bike will accelerate violently. I'm assuming it's different in cars?

If I am coming up to a sharp turn then Im most likely not in 5th gear since sharp turns are in the city and not in the highway. If I am in the city then I am driving in 3rd most of the time.

A car will violently slow down and knacker the clutch
>what are B roads

I can be going 55 mph on 3rd and still be under 4000 rpm.
Why the hell would you be on 5th doing 40 mph? your car would be all shaky and shit.

in addition to this, lugging the engine can cause engine knock / premature fuel detonation.

Forgot about the 40mph bit
my car has a close-ratio gearbox so it is at 1500rpm in 5th at 40, but yeah, on some country lanes you will be doing 50 or 60 before coming up to a stupidly tight hairpin

I do 40mph in 5th all the time, comfortably. Infact 6th since my car has 6 gears.

Even 30mph on a dead straight is fine in 5th once up to speed. That's optimum fuel efficiency right there, like 1100 rpm at 30mph in 5th

Like I said if I have to slow down or accelerate for any reason I drop it into 4th or 3rd first

>1100 rpm at 30mph in 5th
Diesel?

No, standard 2 litre 4 cyl petrol.

I drive a straight level 30mph road to work everyday in 5th. You can even gently accelerate from 28 to 32 mph as long as you're patient.

I also drive a twisty windy 30mph road with steep uphill section, speed bumps, and irregular traffic flow. That road I take in 4th, dropping down to 3rd for the steep uphill section and any part where someone infront brakes down to 25-20mph for a simple speedbump.

Your car should be able to cruise comfortably in 5th around 30 on the straight and flat. Just pop down a gear or two whenever any corners or gradients arise. Maybe my gears are a little shorter because its a 6 speed, but I remember doing this in my previous 5 speed, and that was only a 1.6.

Rev matching and synchros have nothing to do with eachother

That's double declutching.

Once it's in gear the synchros have done their work a long time ago. The revmatching is what prevents the clutch from having to bring the engine up or down to speed in relation to the trans input

I drive a fairly high-revving 1.6 5spd, it'll do 35-40 in 5th but any lower and I feel the engine start to growl at me a bit through the accelerator. I don't like keeping the engine below 1500rpm because it feels and sounds a lot happier being driven in the 2-3k range, even if it means I use a bit more petrol.

You're supposed to rev match while shifting.
double clutching in for old people
You don't need to drop the clutch on neutral to rev, you can just rev.
If you master the rev matching in a syncro box you don't even need to press the clutch to shift.
Which is proof of how much you save your syncros by rev matching.

The best rev range is the one with the highest torque.
Unless it's an high revving engine.

Makes sense.

It definitely does feel good being over that 2k band and being able to punch it at any moment. Never gets old.

youtube.com/watch?v=soJea7xEt-8

in my piece of shit ford, there's no way I put the gear selector into 3rd while going 60mph. the gear box would just scream at me. even if I could hypothetically do so, the second I released clutch the crankshaft would probably explode.

I once got in a Manuel uber where the driver didn't receive match. He was literally using his clutch as a brake.

>you have to go around a 90 degree bend.
you have slowed down to about 15mph

>not taking a corner 90 degree corner at 40mph

>driving with mom
>5th gear going 45 km/h
>wants to overtake
>ratATATATTATATATA

>not driving a low powered shitbox on hilly terrain over 10mph

I have never driven with someone who rev matches properly on downshifts. Every single one of them just let's the clutch raise the revs. I don't think it's very common.

enjoy that preignition and changing engine mounts once a year

This thread has crushed my faith in the intelligence of anyone around me and made me seriously reconsider ever buying another used manual car.
The clutch is not a god damn brake pad you vile numb skulls. If you just "let the clutch out slowly" instead of at least trying to match your engine's revs when changing gears seriously neck yourself.
tl;dr: Buy an automatic if you can't handle simple physics.

ha doy doy the drive train is built to be abused hahahahh

this better be fucking bait

Youre not doing shit for your syncros if you arent double clutching. The purpose of the syncros is to match the speeds of the input shaft and output shaft in the transmission. Simply rev-matching does not do this. It only matches the speeds of the engine and clutch.

What's with the sudden influx of shitposters on this board?

itt: people flipping their shit because a wear item gets used differently by different drivers

Like I give a fuck , my last clutch lasted to 180k and yes when I downshift I just let the clutch out slowly , about a second of duration for smooth.

When I auto x or go down the I rev match.

Wow the clutch may have lasted maybe 5k miles more wew lad

It's not his fault you don't understand how a transmission works. He's correct, you know.

>To that end they keep the car in gear until they have slowed down to an appropriate speed for the lower gear, and lug the shit out of the engine doing so.

uhm, i was taught to do this but to put the clutch in to avoid the 'lugging', this is only ever when coming to a complete stop, if i'm catching up to slower moving traffic i'll brake & down shift and not have a problem.

>When I auto x or go down the I rev match.
>or go down the I rev match
>>or go down the(n) I rev match?
like when you go down gears? that's what everyone is talking about, nobody is saying you have to rev match while upshifting, physics makes that happen by itself for the most part

i never rev match and have never had lurching or lugging or any problems because i don't redline on public roads or drive like an incosiderate boy racer cunt, and i use that pedal in the middle if i'm down shifting to slow down because THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR

>So I just saw a thread online about rev matched downshifts where more than half the people there were saying it's unnecessary with modern synchros and transmissions unless you're on a race track

or a trucker (maybe?)

i've put 90k miles on my 14 year old car with no rev matching and my clutch is fine

let this meme die please

>im retarded
sweet dood

says the clutch cuck

Non-rev-matched downshifts a completely fine unless your racing. The main purpose of rev matching is for handling purposes. Without rev-matching, when you downshift, your car will suddenly jerk and slow-down as energy is taken from the car and transferred into the engine in order to bring it up quickly to the higher rpm demanded by the lower gear. This sudden jolt/deceleration can upset the chassis and cause a car to lose control/spin out. I'm not sure but there also may be durability issues, but I would assume race-car gearboxes are designed to handle a lot of stress.

Truckers with older gearboxes, yeah. Those are the reliable ones, too

i picked up a manual car and drove it 200 km home. In the first 10 km my brake lines started leaking and i soon lost all brake pressure. Drove the rest of the way using only the clutch to brake, good times

I always rev match Because it's fun, I wanna, and it makes a much smoother shift than dragging the engine up by the clutch (saving clutch wear), and on the occasion I'm slowing for a red light and it turns green I'm already in the proper gear rather than guessing from neutral and stressing the synchros to spin up the gear cluster and drag the engine up by the clutch.

>Non-rev-matched downshifts a completely fine unless your racing
>Without rev-matching, when you downshift, your car will suddenly jerk and slow-down
In what world is jerkiness on every downshift completely fine? Thank God I don't have to be a passenger in you guy's cars.

Why do people make a big deal about rev matching? Before I learned manual I thought all the autists on Veeky Forums were talking about something hard and impressive, I learned to rev match on my own without anyone telling me what it was or how to do it. It comes naturally if you're not a retard.

idiotic statement, i could lug a turbodiesel

Because hardly anyone on this board drives a manual, but those that do think it's something special. It fucking isn't.

>unless you're racing

>driving your gf to dinner
>JERK
>JERK
>CLUNK
>"user why"
>its okay honey we aren't racing so i don't have to do boyracer shit like rev matching and heel toe shifting.
>"user that's dumb just drive smoothly"
>I'M AN ADULT! MY CAR DOESN'T HAVE A SPOILER, MAN. WHAT KIND OF A HOON DO YOU TAKE ME FOR? GET OUT OF MY CAR SLUT. GO SUCK IMPORT RICER DICK. FUCK YOOOOOOUUUU!
>*slowly accelerates into the distance because going from 0 to 60 in third is fine if you're easy on the gas*

We get it, you drive a civic.

My car will unironically pull away just fine in third gear
>2017
>not driving a straight 5 diesel
It's like you care about the planet or something

>There's a reason all automatic transmissions change around 3000 RPM
In diesel autos yes lmao

>My car will unironically pull away just fine in third gear

Mine too. 06 Mini Cooper. I've taught half my friends to drive stick in it because it has the most forgiving clutch of all time.

you can drive smoothly without rev matching you stupid nigger

You can, but it's a very self-limiting way to drive. Need to be in 2nd to take a corner? Enjoy slowing right down to 15mph first, as opposed to just blipping up to 3000rpm during your downshift and taking the corner both more smoothly and more quickly

if i need to be in 2nd for a corner it'll be smoother to take it at a lower speed anyway, instead of throwing myself & passengers around

>hur guys look im a raceing dwiver!

You don't have to throw the car about to make progress round corners, especially in a FWD car.

you don't need to downshift violently in traffic. you just slowly reach your red light or whatever, then depress clutch when rpm goes too low, then drop to 1st gear. you can also slowly engage your clutch so you won't dive down violently and feel like shit, works on lower rpm range.

you can also downshift to always be on the gear you'd like with exact amount of engine breaking you'd want, that's also a good option. truth is, it doesn't matter whether you rev-match/heel-toe/whatever or not. it's certainly more fun to rev-match though, nothing gets your mood up than morning violent 5-4-3-2 heel-toe executed flawlessly right before speedbump

The input shaft is connected to the clutch and the output to the wheels,
If you rev match correctly the clutch will be spinning at the same speed as the output shaft and thus, not need syncros.

>It depends on the car
This so much

My mustang will gently accelerate from idle in any gear but my uncle's dart will start to run backwards if you let it idle too long

I sometimes rev match because there's some slack in the drivetrain and I'm yet to find it, but it's hard as fuck in the 90s I6 BMWs because to rev it you have to stomp the shit out of the gas pedal

but that's just me, a random guy commuting to work in his 1.6 Honda or whatever doesn't need to do this:
>clutches are sreally strong and they don't like slippage when taking off, the whatever ammount of slip when changing gears doesn't hurt it one bit
>manual transmissions are basically invincible
>german cars from the 90s started to use DMFs and other stuff to dampen everything so basically you don't even feel the jolt, it's common to have them on even 10 year old french shitboxes
>said french shitboxes also have incredibly soft suspensions so even if there is a jolt it's no different than a bump in the road
change the gear preemptively while braking, if you don't want the jolt just let off the clutch a bit slower than when accelerating, as I said clutches are designed to slip sometimes for short periods of time

my sister overheated my clutch once as in she was taking off really slowly while at 2,5k RPM, when we drove home it slipped sometimes then just went back to normal.

also don't ever drive in neutral that's fucking stupid

My mum and sister taught me how to drive manual and they taught me this

The input shaft is connected to the clutch. Correct. But if you have your clutch disengaged (eg; not floating gears or double clutching), the clutch is not connected to the flywheel.
How the fuck is a rev match that doesn't involve double clutching going to influence input shaft speed?

This.

How do you fags expect to have good MPG if you wanna keep to low gears?

so many busriders here holy fuck

Unless you were taught to rev match from your first driving lesson then you're a shitposter that has never driven a standard if you have you be guessing that people slip the clutch

Why would you ever not rev match? It takes no effort and will extend the life of the clutch. Not doing it to be lazy is dumb.
Rev matching is done with the clutch disengaged. You need to have the car in neutral with the clutch engaged to spin the input shaft up to speed. That's double clutching.

It's better for their wallet because of reduced fuel consumption. It's that or public transport for alot of people, hence the high number of late 90's diesel polos with 13 previous owners

This is true

I rev-match if my rpms will be over 2000 in the next gear down. Always. Just a tiny blip. Smooth, instinctive, not obnoxious whatsoever.

I put her in neutral and coast to a stop during the last 15-20'. Leave it in neutral, shift into 1st only when the light turns green.

Oh, and my car has around 815hp. I don't really want to be changing out clutches all the time when they run $1500. I'm gentle as hell to this thing.

Thank you. I thought I was going to lose my damn mind seeing how many people didn't even try.

no, you can't. When you downshift, you NEED to revmatch or else you will damage the clutch and waste forward momentum.
you can also revmatch without making tons of noise or revving high, you just do it deliberately and let the engine braking slow the car as you go backwards thru the gears.

Except while you're in 3rd gear, you have less available torque than in 2nd, so if you start sliding off the road in the wet, you may not have the power to correct it, or you'll have the power but the wheels lose traction which makes the car loop around.
Knowing what gear to use to take a corner is FAR more important than trying to be smooth about it, since it could very well mean your life or your car.

who ever said that rev matching was good on public roads EVER needs to get shot
i can only justify rev matching when you actually have a problem with your brakes and you need to stop
other than that no just no not even ferrari does that on sport mode

Arr you confusing rev matching with another term? All rev matching does is make downshifting smoother.

Lugging your engine does not equal better fuel economy.
RPM=!fuel rate
This needs to be put to bed along with the rev match/syncro saver thing.

Guess neither of your cars have e-brakes/hand-brakes.