Getting started with Gold?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

So, I need educating Veeky Forums. I want to start being more financially responsible and build a future for myself, as right now I have practically nothing. I'm not aiming to get rich, just comfortable, perhaps in my own home as the end goal. The catch is I'm unwell to the point of being housebound and have been most of my life, and it's unlikely to change according to my doctor.

So, my 'plan' is to first put what little money I can put aside into gold, so it at least holds its value and can provide a safety net if I ever got into dire straights. Is there anywhere I can learn the basics of buying and selling, and the theory beyond 'Ug. Gold hold value'?

I'll likely also start with shares and such, as I have been told by a family member they will be giving me several thousand to do as I want with. But I'll deal with that later.

All urls found in this thread:

investopedia.com/articles/04/031704.asp

MPmaster
MPmaster

so it at least holds its value and can provide a safety net
the value of gold isn't constant, obviously. it might go up or down 20% this year alone. try government bonds
if you're really just looking for something that 'holds its value'

hairygrape
hairygrape

Being able to put it in a safe under my bed is pretty much worth a potential drop. I live in a neighborhood you can accidentally leave your car door unlocked and your satnav will still be there in the morning, so I'm in a pretty good place to keep my stuff at home, as long as I keep it's existence pretty quiet. It also helps that if everything crashes and burns, I'll still have something for when things start getting back to normal.

That said, thank you, I'll at least look into those.

Looking at my family assets, the most I'll ever be 'worth' is somewhere between £60-100k, and that's with two separate inheritances that could come decades apart. The NHS is crumbling and I doubt there will be a benefits system to prop up the genuinely ill in a decade. I'm hoping to fight a rather grim destiny with a headstart and lots of boredom time in my sickbed.

Firespawn
Firespawn

best of luck dude. because you'll want a quite conservative portfolio, diversification in different asset classes with yearly rebalancing is important. here is a decent article about it:
investopedia.com/articles/04/031704.asp

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

royalmintbullion.com

buy sovereigns or britannias, they have no CGT or VAT, which is what you want.

Gold is a good store of value, and a good speculation right now. There is rampant money printing in the world, currencies have nowhere to go but down. When the sheep wake up to this money printing without end, there will be a panic into gold.

What the other user said about bonds is bad advice, the yeald on bonds is low, and the pound is devaluing quicker that the government admits in it's CPI figure. You will loose in real terms with bonds.

You are correct to plan for a future with no NHS and government welfare.

you're welcome, and good luck.

Lunatick
Lunatick

I agree with this user.

Shares wise I would consider "safe bets" on companies doing things that will always be in demand.

Minerl extraction, blue chips like Johnson and Johnson etc

Spamalot
Spamalot

Gold
2017

cum2soon
cum2soon

gold is about to fucking crash, idiot.

askme
askme

Start aiming for being rich now! If you just aim fot being confortable, you will never be more than confortable.
but i don't want to follow a dream i don't believe can happen
If you aim for the stars, chances are that you at least hit the moon.
(It is working perfectly to me)

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

YEAH BRUH GO ALL IN! BITCOIN, JNUG AND DRYS!!
It's really irresponsible to suggest gambling to an user who might need his money to pay for his medical bills.

Methshot
Methshot

When and why ?

Emberburn
Emberburn

Where the hell did you read me telling him to gambling his money?
Go buy a good glass 'cause you are blind.

Evilember
Evilember

how is he supposed to become rich from 60-100k if not by taking huge risks?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Doing something of value.
And risk the the basis of richness.
Do you want to play the money game to win or just to not to loose?
I am not telling him to go to the cassino, i am ttelling him to be always looking for something else.

RumChicken
RumChicken

Thanks. I do need a good starting point, as right now it all looks like a foreign language.

Thanks user. Looking at gold sovereigns, they are considered legal tender. Does that mean I could take one into a bank, and exchange it for it's value in paper, if needed?

Proof or gtfo. From what I've seen, gold doesn't 'crash' so much as droop, and then rebound.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

it's an another retard buys gold for above spot and has to sell below spot episode

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

I've jumped into gold recently, I'm not into investing, learned economy/austrian economics but jumped on it recently

and what I've found the best service is within goldmoney inc
what is special about them?
any quantity is okay, your purchases are up to you, you don't buy fixed units of bars
liquify to paper at will, even with a visa card

if you step in with 350$ they will give to you around 17$, which most likely compensate the 0'1 to 0'5% bid over current market price and 0,5% fees on purchase, and following transactions or the operation to get out without any losses apart from price fluctuations and your timing

Their services are comfy as fuck
Pick your swiss/singapore/hongkong favourite vault
insurance + vault services free up to 100k $
liquidate it any time, 0,5%fee+up to 0,5%market bid, back to your bank account in funny money or either use a goldmoney visa card where you can load it with your gold grams (you sell them) and then use it as you please anywhere, it works at any atm to get your cash out

you can pay around 30 bucks for the vault fees to claim your phisical gold bars to your direction
gold is there, it's not an non audited ETF meme

they will add blockchain tech to it eventually, imagine dat

If you're thankful type
/r/ZkoAya
after dot com to follow my referee, I don't mean to be shilling here tho

gold isn't a investment, it will look like one when funny money fucks up, thiing is, gold is an institution selected by thousands of years of trial and erros by every civilization on earth, still today

only retards that don't understand marginal utility won't be able to analyze gold's value

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

In 5 years...
Space X lands on a comet
Mines 50 kilo tons of gold
Returns to Earth
Gold is useless now. GJ on your terrible 1800s investment. I'll be laughing while I take in my 15% annually electronically.

MPmaster
MPmaster

I use them too, best service ever. I think Goldmoney has a bright future, so I'm even going to buy some of their stock.

Soft_member
Soft_member

are you aware of the expenses of moving little weights around space?

It ain't gonna happen, there's still gold to be mined down there
mining an ounce costs arond 1100$ of inversion

for reference, costs of mining one bitcoin doesn't even compare with its market price

gold doesn't give rents
shit that gives rent are the scape goat of funnymoney

you're most likely too stupid to be aware of the risk involved on the stockmarkets, there's so many things out of your control un a rooted system

Techpill
Techpill

yup
I might as well, but I'm studying it to maybe start door to door sales selling their services using the referee system

Banking bullshit is something I love talking about, yet, there's no way to close the deal so I'm figuring out how that part could be worked around

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

shilling paper gold

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

the idea of using certificates erases the objective costs and inneficiencies of phisical gold;

its insurance is more risky/expensive outside of a max security vault on a non shithole state
you can move it trought tech magic, you don't even have to move around a phisical certificate with shitty post services
you enjoy the british invention of gold certificates, main factor that made industrial revolution happen (before (((they))) started to fraud due to law&order nenligence kek)
hoarding/secure is so cheap it's free, gl if you own the gold yourself at home or w/e local placement

as it's more handy you will always find better selling bids compared to bars/coins hoarded by yourself

at least it's not a certificate of part of a bar trully owned by someone else where it's promise is guaranted by an untrustworthy institution like the deutchebank

you own phisical gold trought goldmoney, you pay the fees to get it sent to your location anytime if one self is such a faggot like you

Soft_member
Soft_member

It's vaulted gold, not paper gold. A superior product to all other alternatives. More secure than physical since it is guarded and insured, while it is as liquid as digital money. Not based on bullshit like gold ETFs.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

I only managed to refer one person, but the bonuses are awesome, yes. Got 1g of gold for that referral, 0,5g for my own first deposit and a token sum as a gift on my birthday. Quite generous if you ask me.

I bought half my gold shortly before the election, but with the recent bull run I'm now 120€ in the green. Love it.

hairygrape
hairygrape

I fucked up and didn't made a deposit until past the first week kek

doesn't matter that much, already made 4% profit in a month

Shit is going to get moving due to Trump splasing the mud

stockmarkets on manic mode, eurozone pissing on their pants, shit's gonna get fun

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

It's vaulted gold, not paper gold.
same difference, when the certificate of ownership is sold and resold a hundred times each piece of paper is only really worth a hundredth of ounce if crap hits the fan.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

I have gold in a vault that are sealed in a numbered bag, the photo of it sent to me on a regular basis, and anytime i go there they can immediately take me to the numbered bag.
That's vaulted gold. What you have is paper gold.

Evilember
Evilember

if crap hits the fan, singapore/swiss/hongkong are not gonna be affected, only healthy economies in the world, people will run to their services

it doesn't make sense they won't be as good as, let's call it local gold

their only risks are involved with war invasions, but that's unlikely

protecting your local gold is a huge problem, your first worry is your own state and then the people around you who have lost everything, so wish you luck to enforce your rights by yourself

SniperGod
SniperGod

depending on the vault you pick with goldmoney, you can also manage a visit down your gold and shit like that

StonedTime
StonedTime

You picked a good entry point, well done. I thought we would have the gold rally that started in January right after the election in case of a Trump win, but instead the market went full retard for a month and is still dellusional. Good thing I kept buying gold while it was on sale. Up 2% so far.

I think gold will see overall growth in 2017, so I intend to keep it until next year regardless of the fluctuations.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I don't see the practical difference. I have gold held in my name in different vaults that are regularly audited and can demand it to be physically delivered to me at any time. My holdings are all up to the last gold gram owned by me, not the company I bought it from. It's not even stored by Goldmoney but by Brinks.

whereismyname
whereismyname

No you can't visit the vault, because they don't have the gold. Try looking on how you can visit vaults, you won't see any.
You need to request 5 days in advance before the gold to be delivered. Why? They can just go to the vault to get your gold, unless the gold does not exist.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Correct me if I'm wrong, but UK Sovereigns being legal tender means I could walk into a bank, and deposit the 'value' of the coin into my debit account at any time, right?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

this.

holy shit how hard can it be. get cash, buy gold coins, store gold coins, repeat.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Gold is audited there, you can claim it sent to you any time, and depends on the vault and if you're lucky to live there or visit, you can go watch it at some vaults, loomis does not, brinks does as far as I remember

visiting a valut is not as going to a whore house, if you expect to call them and get in without delay, either it's not secure or it's ridiculously expensive

If you want to propose they don't really guard the gold, show some failed audits/rejected claims, like it already has happened with the deutchebank on these private non-bank vaults

girlDog
girlDog

Gold has nothing to do with other "investments" like bonds or stocks. Call it saving, not investing.

Don't look for clever schemes, don't buy any papergold like ETF, CFD, options, futures or any of that - that is only speculation on the future price, has nothing to do with gold.

Just get coins or bars. Store them. Forget about them. Wait 20 years or 40. Profit.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

depends on so many things, being responsible of the security of big amounts of wealth by your own means against the state your in, is not riskless

there are fights you can't win, better if those fights aren't so easy, for exmaple, when that gold is not placed on a lair of unciviliced retards where the retard king is the worst predator of them all

skepticism about bullion vaults is healthy, but it needs substance to be meaningful

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Can you give me the link on how to visit their vaults to see my gold? I don't see any. When i googled the only result is a guy on their forum complaining about it.

takes2long
takes2long

Thanks user, that's basically my plan. I'm just looking at details. Gold sovereigns seems a wiser course, as they are considered legal tender, and I can spend them if in dire straights.

Moving onto shares. Can anyone advise how to get started with stocks? I want to drop ~100 a month in a local business that I can see is going to be big, but from what I can gather, most places will charge me somewhere in the area of £10 a month just for being with them, and then £12ish per trade, which makes such small investments pointless.

idontknow
idontknow

The difference is, i know my gold exists and you don't. You don't even get to see the bullions you owned unless you get it to be delivered and you need to wait one week while they get the funds and rebuy your gold.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

legal tender
It's not what you think user. Legal tender means that the bullion have a nominal value etched on it and it's legally money under that value.
For instance, 1 oz of gold american eagle have a legal tender of 50 dollars. You can deposit it to the bank for the value of 50 dollars, but i believe you're still sane enough not to do that.

Skullbone
Skullbone

Sovereigns, Philharmonics, Eagles, Krugerrand or any of the well known bars will do. There has never been a better time to buy gold in history. Not because of the price movement. I don't know about that. But here is the little secret that goldbugs will never get: Gold is only allowed to trade truly freely as long as it is NOT an official part of the monetary system. If it is however, the gubernment will come and get yours.

Goldbugs have it upside down. Nixon did a great thing when he abolished the Gold Standard. He corrected Newtons big mistake from the 18th century. Gold is great. The Gold standard is shit.

Emberfire
Emberfire

For sure, I just wanted to make sure that was a possibility.

i.e. rent is due, I have no cash, and don't have time to sell my bars. It's trade a coin in at the bank, or homelessness.

Always good to know your options at least.

So does that mean that even if the 'value' of the gold in the coin goes up, the bank would still, using your example, only have to give you that 50?

Flameblow
Flameblow

I don't disagree with anything you said. It really depends on the sum you want to hold in gold. for most people, a safety deposit box will suffice. Or a safe at home if you want. The state will not come and get your gold as long as there is no gold standard. No point.

WebTool
WebTool

Yes, because that's what legal tender means. A hundred dollar bill have a legal tender of 100 dollars despite having zero intrinsic value.

DeathDog
DeathDog

that's simply not true
the state dedicates itself about systematic confiscation of it's citiziens very own resources, if gold skyrockets they will start focusing on parasiting you instead

and if they can track your records when you purchased that gold (they already can) you're subjected to defend your property from the state, and you're lost on that war without recreative
private nukes TM :')

I'll look for it eventually, atm there's no precedents about claiming gold and having problems with it or delays on delivery, nor failed audits, nor any leaks from insiders

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

you really don't get it do you?
when you write a cert to an ounce of physical gold and give it to a guy, he will not give that cert away no he will keep it. he will write an other cert for the next guy and when that sells it he writes an other cert. now there are 300 certs to a single ounce of gold around and if any one of them wants to lay claim on the physical gold there is a shitload of paper for lawyers to chew through and decide who's claim is legit and who is falsely claims ownership as he already sold his share.

meanwhile the first guy who owns the piece of gold will keep it and will refuse to give it away. he will give the now worthless fiat equivalent gladly and so on.

you are saying paper gold is as good as real gold, but this is only true under normal conditions and especially true when gold prices are stable or declining.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

well two ways to look at it. the gold coin is worth $50 from 1800-something to this day. basically it is the fiat dollar that got devalued badly. sadly fiat dollar is legal tender. but you still can't waltz into a bank and ask for your $10k deposit in gold coins. i mean you can try... but if you want to repay a debt you can use any legal tender to settle it. you would do well to take your gold coin sell at gram price and settle with the paper cash you get of course but technically they have to accept these coins too.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Good to know. However, does that restrict it from being worth the gold value it is made up of, if you 'sold' it?

Basically, I'm trying to work out whether to go with a few sovereigns for an emergency and bars, or just go sovereigns in a tube.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

It's your choice i guess. We all have something we believe in afterall.

girlDog
girlDog

You need to sell it at gold dealers. Banks won't give you the intrinsic value of the gold.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

always always go with the smallest premium possible for the amount you buy.
coins have the benefit of you being able to sell them separately and they are identifiable by eye to a trained professional (counterfeits are really not that good for new coins, so never ever buy old worn looking coins!).

but really the premium is what will cut into your profit margins the most. then taxes. when you sell gold at least in my country the irs gets notified if it's 1 ounce or more.

5mileys
5mileys

I don't disagree that the state will always come for your stuff. Im just saying that in todays system, there are far better ways of confiscating wealth than breaking up your safe to get some gold. Even if it skyrockets. Past Gold confiscations/gold bans have always correlated with the need for gold to back an already inflated currency. That was what made gold special. If it is "just another asset" gold will be very far down the list of stuff the state comes for. First is your income (already happening), then maybe the inheritance, then real estate, then paper wealth, then maybe paper savings but that's already dicy. besides: if lets say china has an open physical gold market and japan decides to ban gold and take it away, where will the gold end up? in japanese gubernment saves? i dont think so.

cum2soon
cum2soon

But I assume you can do that, so they are still as good an investment as bars? I'm generally clueless, so I'm trying to work it all out.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Past Gold confiscations/gold bans have always correlated with the need for gold to back an already inflated currency.

there are exceptions like nazi germany, they needed the gold to buy stuff and make the swiss richer :)

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

swiss spotted

SniperWish
SniperWish

I think gold ad an """investment""" is out of style since the main people advocating it are antiglobalist right-wing tinfoilers and now that they got their guy in office they're not worried about the illuminati printing new fiat or whatever.

Buy real assets instead.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Gold is on the rise because everyone got scared of Trump all of a sudden.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

trump can't magicaly fix the dollar nor the other currencies in the world, that's just not understanding anything

real assets are complex objects full of risks, you must be aware of how fucked up the economy is, it'sn not real, it's not based on human needs, it's unrelated to REAL markets, it's all distorted by mob rule, statism and monetarism

that's not sustainable, the econmy is a jacuzzi , everything are bubbles, it's not the corporations fault, nor inversors, right now money is being multiplied by private banks on new loans out of nowhere and the central banks keep pumping money for them to avoid their bankrupcies, credit expansion is HUGE, everywhere

they're settling wrong incentives on the markets, entrepeneurs start projects that shouldn't have happened, their niche is fictional, they're only happening because of the credit expansion effect, where other bussiness are also pushed ahead, consumers are pusheda head, and that altogether resembles economic growth, but it isn't

all those investments and credits doen't really support sustainable bussiness that actually add real value

it's terryfing to realice how clueless most of you are

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

dude, there is so much shit in this topic. let me help you:
1. do you have any idea who control the gold market? no, then get the fuck out
2. do you have any idea how many gold mines exist but nobody work into? the don't fucking buy gold

iluvmen
iluvmen

Gold is not a hedge against the dollar.

It hasn't even beat inflation in the last seven years.

Compare the price of gold vs the s&p 500 from October 08 to now and look how poor it performed.

FastChef
FastChef

why do you think there are known spots of gold that nobody exploit?

what could it be?
could it be because of none profits of explotation? COULD IT BE?

why would BITCOIN be designed so it's more expensive and resource consuming to mine every following bitcoin up until they're reaching the limit, exponentially, could it copy the expenses that happen with any other natural resource

why doesn't look at gold from a decades or centuries perspective? gold didn't lost any value to counter hiperinflation/economic collapse, it's value to save wealth hasn't been removed by fluctuations of last five years, it's marginal utility is the same

stocks are inflated by credit expansion

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Thanks user. Looking at gold sovereigns, they are considered legal tender. Does that mean I could take one into a bank, and exchange it for it's value in paper, if needed?
it has a "value" way below the gold value. but they do attract no cgt he's right.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Thanks user. Looking at gold sovereigns, they are considered legal tender. Does that mean I could take one into a bank, and exchange it for it's value in paper, if needed?

No. Legal tender means it isn't taxed in any way, no VAT, no CGT. Governments can tax many things, capital gain, income, land, but they can't tax money directly. Legal tender means it is officially money of that country. If it has the Queen on the back, it's legal tender (we're talking about UK here).

You can sell gold back to the royal mint, or to pawn shops. Some people will accept them directly for payment, and as the awareness of gold grows I think many people in the future will be happy to be paid in gold.

I plan to exchange my gold for real estate someday.

DeathDog
DeathDog

for those of you who have a physical coin
how do you know it's real?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

buy from the mint.
buy slabbed coins
buy only from reputable dealers
be able to tell the difference by weight and appearance.

honestly if you can't tell a fake coin by looks and feel you might not want to be buying coins.

girlDog
girlDog

it's too complicated, buying from mints is not realistic you need to be a precious metal dealer and buy in bulk if you want to buy bullions or pay an arm and a leg for numismatics.

the simple solution is only buy the newest bullions and memorize the security features they have. that's all. fakes are usually old worn coins the chinks can't produce the detail that is on the new bullions. everything will be off.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

There are a number of ways to check.

The best way to avoid a fake is to buy from a reputable dealer.

To test yourself, its best to use multiple tests.

First up is visual inspection. Are the details well defined? Are the flat surfaces truly flat or are they dimpled? Look up the date of the coin for the rarity - if someone is selling you a rare version for the price of a common sovereign then become suspicious.

Next is a simple test - a UK sovereign should weigh 8g (well, 7.98g i believe), diameter should be 22mm and thickness 1.6mm.

Then you can measure the displacement of water by the coin, then using this to calculate the density. This should correlate with the density of gold.

Then you can do the nitric acid test to be sure. This doesnt damage a real sovereign.

Dealers can do fancier tests than these using X rays etc

askme
askme

I'm getting ready to take the Jew approach.
1/3 net worth in real estate
1/3 net worth in stocks and bonds
1/3 net worth in precious metals
The first two make you wealthy, the last one keeps you wealthy.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I also put my PMs through a multimeter test.

FastChef
FastChef

To test yourself
yeah i can totall ysee you dipping coins in tanks of water and measuring them when you buy them.

protip: they will be packages in plastic and you cant touch them until you payed for them and if you bring a tank of water they will call security on your loony ass.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

it's simple man, size/weight. you just need a micrometer and an accurate scale. only way to buy imo

likme
likme

you would do better with the 25%: cash, stocks, bonds, metals

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

i'm currently
20% bonds
25% weird shit savings
30% cash
5% other weird shit savings
5% metals
15% outstanding

i want out the weird shit savings and get into stocks but i'm kinda stuck.

DeathDog
DeathDog

yeah you too think you waltz into a shot and start unpackaging and measuring coins and bars?

you can take a look at them before you buy them and that's all you get.

Illusionz
Illusionz

the younger you are, the less you are supposed to put into "conservative" funds like gold and bonds. You want to beat inflation, not match it.

Disable AdBlock to view this page

Disable AdBlock to view this page

Confirm your age

This website may contain content of an adult nature. If you are under the age of 18, if such content offends you or if it is illegal to view such content in your community, please EXIT.

Enter Exit

About Privacy

We use cookies to personalize content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyze our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our advertising and analytics partners.

Accept Exit