Why did daddy GM hat them so much?

Because that were better than Chevy

What is this Pontiac version of the Toyobaru?

Daddy GM loved Pontiac. Saturn was the one they hated.
THink of it this way.
GM is the political establishment at the moment. Let's say the corporate democrats.
Here, out of nowhere, comes Saturn/Bernie Sanders challenging the status quo with radical ideas.
Saturn pioneered new manufacturing processes, some of which are still in use today (example: lost foam casting). The original idea of Saturn was to test the new ideas then apply them to the rest of GM to make GM more competitive as a whole.
By the time the Saturn experiment finished in 1996, GM leadership had changed and they did not want to rock the boat and cut Saturn's development budget to handicap them. Sounds similar to the democratic party rigging the 2016 primary against bernie sanders to me. And BTW, they admitted that in court.

Pontiac Vibe, basically a joint GM-Toyobaru rebadge of the Matrix.

Because they spent sixty years nipping at Chevrolet's heels, between the Banshee concepts, the Fiero, the Firebird, etc.

Rule 1 of General Motors is "You don't fight the Corvette." Pontiac did and boy did it leave a grudge.

>Daddy GM loved Pontiac.
lolno
if that were true we would have had the pontiac banshee setting records and a mk.3 fiero on the streets right now

What does Subaru have to do with the Vibe/Matrix?

No, that's Cadillac.

im retarded i meant toyota i can't tell between nips

...er.

It's not really right to try to throw stones between Pontiac, Olds, and Buick, though- all three were GM's most innovative and interesting divisions and all three were shat on in favor of Chevy and Cadillac- Olds died first after being forced into beige econoboxiness, Pontiac a few years later even after trying to regain its performance foothold, and Buick is a complete shell of its former self that only exists because the chinks love 'em.

because everything was second to the Corvette, but GM didn't hate Pontiac. GM compromised with Pontiac on cheating them out of the Banshee and gave them the Firebird instead.

Well obviously they didn't move that much metal, their cars had plastic body panels

No, their best vehicles ever made weren't even Pontiacs

Disregard that I'm dumb and thought we were talking about Saturn

the poor old nigger thinks its a Cadillac

With Pontiac gone GM has started to box themselves into a corner, specifically with Chevy. Chevy cant really do anything to their regular cars because they always protect the Corvette and now they do the same for the Camaro as well. The SS sold like shit because it wasnt marketed at all, they didnt want it to eat sales of the vette/camaro. Chevy wont make any SS versions of their regular cars because of the Camaro. Pontiac could be just a niche filler. It doesnt have to have a standard line up. GM has no two seat roadster, no performance versions of any of their cars. Think of a Sonic/Cruze/maybe Malibu being hetick boosted like the Fiesta ST under the Pontiac name. Instead of killing off the Impala, rebadge it as the Bonneville.(or something) The SS could have been the new GTO.

At the end of the day GM just had too many brands that didn't offer anything new and ended up competing with itself. Ford does this, Chrysler does this and of course GM does, but at some point anymore than 3 or 4 brands that all fulfill the same thing is basically pointless. The difference with Saturn is the fact that they were created to combat the nips and germans and tried to create something that wasn't very GM like. And, yeah Buick exists to satisfy the chinks.

Oh yeah

>GM compromised with Pontiac on cheating them out of the Banshee and gave them the Firebird instead.
That's called a consolation prize, user, as in, "You don't get to make a sports car, but here's a Camaro. Change the lights. That's what you get."

Pontiac kept making Banshee concepts over the years, obviously (given the Banshee I was directly made into the Mako Shark and then the C3 Corvette), and kept trying to make a proper sports car too, which led to the Fiero- slipped past the GM bean-counters as an Iron Duke powered, small economy car that happened to be mid-engined because it meant they could cut costs by using other cars' front suspension in the back instead, and by '88 it was a proper midship sports car with a Fiero mk.2 in development. The big rumor of course is that the V6 version of the mk.2 was whooping Corvettes on GM's proving grounds test track (not surprising, given this was the era of the C4), and so goodbye Fiero, hello Grand Prix and Grand Am and 6000 SUX and endless beige.

The big thing is that nowadays, there's no such thing as a middle-market brand. Ford's main trio- Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln- worked just fine for decades and decades: Ford was the everyman's car and the fleet sales, Mercury was the up-market version, Lincoln was the high-end luxury. However as people end up with less and less money to buy shit with and a higher importance on getting just something that werks, Mercury became depreciated. People don't buy the mid-market cars, the mid-market cars have their unique bits and pieces stripped so they can cut costs, now even less people are buying the mid-market cars because they're even more similar to the low-cost brand.

Chrysler is an oddity in that they've most often marketed their brands 'between the levels'- i.e. Plymouth as higher than Ford, but less than Mercury. They were kept afloat by the HUGE sales of their big hitters- primarily K-cars and minivans- but those are gone now so they're in trouble.

>Pontiac will never come back
>GM wont sell us any more rebadged Commodores
>They're ending that too
>all because muh corvette and muh camaro

Yeah, it did work for a while that way, and it was how domestic brands were built. But now days each brand has to be the low, the middle, and the high market brands at the same time. The introduction of the foreign imports changed everything as that's basically how they were run. It was hard to sell to somebody for ever that a Lincoln was a Lincoln and not a car full of Ford parts with the Lincoln name on it. Still today GM and Chrysler are having a hard time defining what their identity is since they can't jump throw the same 12 designs into 10 different car brands anymore. Ford was pretty smart to tier their vehicles out and create performance models of the Fiestas, Focuses, F150s, and so on and then having Lincolns as primarily luxury vehicles pushed farther away from Fords.

...

>then having Lincolns as primarily luxury vehicles pushed farther away from Fords

They're not pushing Lincoln far enough. Most of them are still just rebadged Fords. The Continental is a good start though.