RIP Tesla

>VAG

EVgate scandal the year the car drops.

>Keep your shitty Fords and Chevys.

can we keep our shitty Dodges too or just let the italianos have it?

They do have the e-Golf, the e-Up! and the Passat GTE.
The e-Golf has actually started to sell so its more of a OMG JACKPOT WHAT NOW moment for VAG.
Besides, from all the big names of the industry, VW is the most backwards from the bunch when it comes to electric vehicles.
Electric cars were more of a curiosity for VW, hence they only really put effort in the Golf, but now it seems they realised that if they dont move on, they will have the same fate as Nokia.

>RIP Tesla
More like
>RIP ICE and car enthusiasm

After normies start buying these vibrator shaped (((cars))), gas cars will be phased put with massive taxes, if not entirely banned.

Thanks Tesla.

At that point there will be no reason for me to live anymore.

Hory chet this got me thinking, where I am VAG cars are seen as much "nicer" and fair well with the stacy crowd. Only problem is everyone thinks they are unreliable as hell. People still constantly choose vw's over chebys and ferds anyway because they don't want a car that is seen as shit tier. If they focus on making their new electric cars as reliable as possible they could drop the old stereotype and (if they play their cards right) they could capture a healthy majority of the chad/stacy market share. If they do this American car manufacturers are going to be on suicide watch come 2020.

>gas cars will be phased put with massive taxes, if not entirely banned.
That'll happen in Europe way before it happens in the US. our political system is slow as shit when it comes to progressive stuff. we're just barely starting to ease up on drug laws.

There is no point in banning them, people are moving towards electric cars anyway.
Everybody laughed at Macron when he said that France will ban ICE cars by 2040. Its like abolishing the casette player by 2010.

More electric cars means more petrol left for me :^)

Someday in the near future it'll be just be petrolheads and Mad Max fans running petrol cars on the roads.

VAG can afford it, but they need more info before invest. You know they has a revenue (Quarterly) of 63.43B. Right now, it is a good time for them to invest now.

Anybody here spot a VW GTE? The blue tartan alone is enough to make me hard.

I still dont think electric will ever be a thing in America. The range is too small. Maybe in europoor land which is barely the size of Texas.

Right now they are just fashion accessories for Californians

Jus look at bmw i2 depreciation. $50k cR you can get lightly used for $17k

>no more v8s
>no more petrol
>no more joocy note
I was born in the wrong generation...

The Electric cars are better...
They have no engines.
No transmissions.
Yet can produce huge horse power smoother and faster?
Electricity, cleaner, safer, cheaper than gas...

Yet it can't travel more then to nearby town and back...
Charging it takes forever and have it's own set of problems, mostly inside a battery pack...

That may be but what is popular in society and ways in which society changes happens first in America, then spreads to the rest of the world.
It's all the money and freedom that enable this I'm sure.
An example is automatic transmissions

>what is fast-charging

>Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW and BMW announced building a 350 kW charge network with 400 stations in Europe, beginning in 2017.
>Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche are testing on a 500kW charge station in their R&D lab.

But these changes have to also correspond with local conditions. Look at size of american and japan cars, even modern rich japan has small cars with tiny engines, because american land barges would not fit in their cities.
It will be similar with BEV they correpsond well with euro and japan market: short distances, mostly city driving.
While in US with greater distances you need petrol, with small market for BEV.

>500kW charge station
a bit overkill. Poor battery

Topping up gas tank ~5 minutes
Fast charge 0-80% 30 minutes, and than 30 minutes to hit 100%...
And you have to refill gas 2-10 times less frequent...

500kW charging will only use that power briefly at the beginning, and only if your battery pack can survive it...

>Fast charge 0-80% 30 minutes, and than 30 minutes to hit 100%...
That's Tesla Supercharger (up to 145kW).
350kW can charge 0-80% less than 15 minutes.
Image what 500kW can do? Probably 0-80% 5 minutes

With these new Li-Graph batteries, 500kW charging actualy makes sense, they are desinged to be charged at 5C, so a 100 kWh batterie is desinged to be charged with up to 500kW, so basicly 0-80% in 16 minutes.
(8 minutes with a 10C 50 kWh battery)

>Poor battery
Ze Germans are probably talking about a different chemistry (than current commercial Li chemistries). They are more likely to come up with a new cell design that can accept a faster charge. This is likely to happen in the future, but I'm not aware of anything in production yet.

It's not that easy, you don't pump 5C current all the time. Full power is only at the beginning of charging, than it drops.
But I agree, charging time will become shorter, BEV will be more popular, but it will be hard to beat energy density of liquid fuel.

>More electric cars means more petrol left for me
Maybe more but in the end will be less for you. In the beginning, gas prices will decrease as demand drops, so more petrol for you. But as demand really really drops, the amount of gas sold doesn't offset the infrastructure costs of the pipelines, refineries, tank farms, fuel terminals, gas stations, and finally salaries of all the people involved. Your petrol liter may then rise to be over 10 pounds each due to the economy of scale effect.

People will just convert their cars to run on 180 proof drinking alcohol when it becomes cheaper than gasoline.

>don't pump 5C current all the time
Read my comment again, it only charges 5C up to 80% battery charge.
>beat energy density of liquid fuel
That is not even the target of battery technology, since ICE only reach like 25-30% efficiency in normal driving conditions, and electric motors about 95% eficiency, getting 30% energy density would get you more range than a ICE with a similar storage weight.
But then you would have to consider that the electric motor and controller weight less than the ICE, transmission and cooling system.

So if they get it up to about 20% energy density of liquid fuel, they get about the same range for a similary heavy car.

I think as the whole 'diesel is a dirty fuel" thing keeps moving we may just see ethanol take over as a fuel for long distance hauling and other similar needs.

I'll just skim my heads and get some aftermarket pistons we'll be running e100 baby

The higher compression could increase the torque and mpg by about the margin ethanol would reduce it.
After all, it has 106,5 octane...

And even that 20% density is far away, if even chemically possible.
But some day EV will take over.

Indeed, but you can make the battery larger and place it under the floor.
That gives you a decent range and verry low center of gravity.

Most countries are only just producing slightly more electricity than what is actually needed. If electric cars get into the mainstream too quickly, there will be an extreme energy crisis.

Than we just shift pollution from cars to pollution from generating electricity. That is needed for our cars.

don't forget that ICE cars have a huge range because it's easy as fuck, not because it's a market need. (it's a nice to have. not a need to have)
Refueling conventional fuel can only be done at a gas station. Thus, in normal use, we don't want to drive everyday to a gas station. Therefore a big range is nice.
Electric can be charged after every journey.
to compare battery vs conventional you should really compare the 90% use scenario's. That is either, drive to work, charge, drive back, charge. 5 days a week.
Or; drive to work, drive back, charge. 5 days a week.
since there are hardly any people driving over 200 miles to/from work, the electric car can be compared perfectly to the ICE and is usually more user friendly.
(and for the small group of people who need excessive range there's ICE or specific solutions. Electric is not the final solution. It's an addition to available options. And a good one at that.)
For the masses electric is just perfectly viable. It's just not better-in-every-way. (but it don't need to be.)
Remember how phones had infrared communication ports? and batteries that lasted days?
they don't anymore. and don't need to because those needs became outdated.

Then Ze Germans have to make a fusion plant to counter that energy crisis.

Most countrys have a overavailability during nighttime, wich is when people charge their cars.
The actualy have to shut down some powerplants at that time.

Powerplants are more efficient and have much cleaner exaust gas than cars.

Yes, in normal use most people don't need 100+ miles of range.
Unless it is winter when it EV range drops drastically, and you will have full blown range anxiety. (that last fenomenon is why BEV need more range to be popular)

>virtualy no fuel costs
>fast recharging with 500kW
>unlimited highway speed
>more powerfull cars

That will get interesting...

a large fleet of controllable power users could hugely improve the efficiency of power production.
If car chargers become smart and can dampen the consumption fluctuations the need for more polluting gas plants will fall.
still, we would need huge amounts of power, but at least we can generate it far more efficiently than a normal ICE would. And we can control where we have the emissions and what we do with it. (in the Netherlands they actually pump exhaust gasses into greenhouses as plants thrive on a higher CO2 concentration.)
Other options are underground storage or going nuclear. but those are both not entirely sustainable.

>winter when it EV range drops drastically
That is not actualy the case if you plug it in before driving and heat it up while pluged in.
The heat from the controller and motor are just enough to keep it warm and the range loss is about 0.

Can you point me BEV that uses motor waste heat? Last I checked they use electric heaters and heat pumps.

>Most countrys have a overavailability during nighttime, wich is when people charge their cars.
But once electric cars happen and people charge at night, we'll still reach a crisis since home charging takes 8 hours depending on the cars battery packs so people not close to quick charge stations will just charge all night long.

Not at all. Winter destroy the range.

Model S and model X have both, they use the electric heat pump when there is not enough waste heat.
basicly like a normal car with additional electric heater.
That used to be the case with older vehicles that did not have battery insulation and did not feature preheating.

Show don't tell.
If the industry could have done it so simply before they wouldn't be shitting their pants every time Tesla did something.

everytime telsa did something, it did it with taxpayer dollars, so i fail to see it as doing something

And the other manufacturers needed a bailout.
Again, enough with the pointless shit-talking, show don't tell.

Everyone I know that has an EV loves it.

This seems to be a similar trend. What, like 97% of EV owners will have an EV for their next car or something?

VW must be really fukken big in Europe to be how big they are.

I mean they exist here but they don't sell many cars really

>EVs in my city
>they never leave the city
>only two charge stations in the entire fucking state
>EVs have standard range of 180 miles, maybe 310 miles if you pay a few grand more
>never see them outside the city limits
>most people that have them have two so one car charge while they drive the other
>meanwhile i fill my car in 5 minutes and can travel 800km without stopping

EV is not for me.

i dont recall the government giving me a $7,500 tax credit for buying a car, but tesla does it with every one!

>no transmission
Miss your bus this morning buddy?

i mean its only got one gear, does it really count?

Too bad for you that the American market is the only one companies really care about.

Thanks, i had a good kek. :)

LPG is going on the roof in Italy, but fuel-consumption wise is even worse than gasoline, and they barely go 25MPG, even on small 1.3 econoboxes, but it costs 1/3.
As LPG is more and more popular 250 miles battery autonomy isn't really that much of a problem for most beople anyway as they are already custom to fill up their car once every 4 days.

Because we haven't the technology yet.
I predict that we'll arrive to pure electron storage batteries and at that point liquid fuel will be considered as steam engines today.

km without stopping
>he cannot do 1000 with 3/4 of a tank
why even try

>expecting 1000km from 3/4ths of a tank from a 22 year old 4 litre V8

>4L V8 from 20 years ago gets better mileage than a brand new EV
EVs getting BTFO lads

>mfw 1000 km
>with 35l gas

>Electricity, cleaner, safer, cheaper than gas...
The only thing I care about is cheaper and if you got a job fuel isn't that expensive. So kill yourself you loser.

>fast charging
>takes 1 hour
You can fill up tens of heavy duty vehicles in this time lmao.

virtually any gas that isn't built go gazzle gas gets a better mileage than ev.
Heck mine can go almost x4 than the average Tesla™

>not driving a small diesel engine with 60 liters tank
>at least not hypermiling his car

>>with 35l gas
What cuckmobile do you have with only a 50l tank.
My old volkswagen has a bigger fuel tank than that lmao.

>tfw 90l tank

I don´t have a 50l tank, I have only 35l.
It has to bethat efficient since I deliver Pizza with it and only get 30 cents per km.
So i jew out the boss by using less fuel and get more money tax free.

I think about getting a megasquirt and add a verry lean burn under low load, just like the 1st gen insight had.

30 cents for driving my own car, I get paid minum wage additionaly.

Not bad but is your car gas powered or is it diesel?

Gas

Smaller econobox (diesel would be ideal) would give you more profit margin. My car eats around 5.8cents/km

I have to deliver in a Umweltzone green, most diesel econoboxes don´t meet the requirements to do so.
(I am looking at you Lupo 3L)

My car is basicly as efficient as a purely gas powered car gets these days and tires are 30€ each (chinese plastic ones about 20€) and only needs a oil change of 3L every 15.000 km (I do every 10.000 or earlier).
With the upcomming Diesel ban in my country, I better stick with it...

you could try to invest in A-class energy rating tires. Very cheap tires usually come are F or worse and it's a shame as they will consume as to 10% more fuel; a little overinflation can help.
I also use full sint graded for fuel economy, I pay almost 40€ for 8 liters, it isn't really expensive.

brb, applying magnets to my sides

Best tires I could find were B rated, are Falken Sincera SN831 any good?

>Falken Sincera SN831
I look up and they're from C to E, do you have any kind of exotic tire size?

>do you have any kind of exotic tire size?
No, just 155/65 R14.

It's not wrong.

Well B isn't that bad either, and with ~48€ per tire aren't incredibly expensive, maybe if you sell your old tires you can knock the price per tire a little more.

It poses an interesting question; can a "small scale" manufacturer like Tesla survive when the big leagues go full focus on EVs?

Tesla is already slowly going down. They wasted time by delaying the model 3 (and still they are) and now the big league is entering the scene.
Also the reputation as premium-toys doesn't help much. VAG may not have the most shiny reputation but atleast they make cheap-ish cars.

They could become the battery manufacturer if others would step up their game. But that's not happening is it?
If they wanted to make more money, license out the supercharger things since apparently the normal one kind of sucks.
Not quite sure why the shit isn't standardized.

It's always like that in the beginning. Think oof early cellphones, each one had it's own port and charger however nowadays they are standardized to 5V through USB.

I want a 1 MEGA WATT charge station in my garage!

>electric motor powers a vacuum cleaner to suck up diesel engine emissions

F U N D I T

But Tesla already does that tbqh

>Topping up gas tank ~5 minutes

Gas station rate is 10 gallon per minute, so that's a 50 gallon tank.

For diesel it's 40 gallon per minute.

>vag relase new electric motor
>they faked emission
>pollute worse than diesel

Not just Tesla, but RIP everyone else outside the realm of Toyota's imperial alliance.

I fucking wish our pumps were 10gpm, its probably like 1.5 most of the time and i freeze my ass off in the winter