What's so bad about FWD?

What's so bad about FWD?

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Torque steer, understeer, weight distribution

RWD here, all of this is true.

But, at least it handles better in the winter and is more predictable at high speeds.

All of these are fixable though, just most carmakers don't try.

Lightweight, more efficient, cheaper, less moving parts, more interior room.

No dorifto

For 99% of people, absolutely nothing.

people say they're better than rwd for bad roads but it's only true for rain

if you want a FWD over RWD for ice you're a fucking imbecile

>if you want a FWD over RWD for ice you're a fucking imbecile
n-nani

I'm a leaf and every time I see someone struggling to a laughable degree with ice it's always a RWD

They're inferior high end. But it doesn't matter for anyone here on Veeky Forums. The ST is magnificent despite its drivetrain

This is true yeah.

So how is public transport nowadays?

>muh WEIGHT ON DA FRONT

u dont drive

>404 argument not found

It's fucking gay

Fucuckboi wheel drive is for fags

FWD is pretty good, I own a RWD true blue australian muscle car also, I like both but they both have their advantages and disadvantages that can be fixed with aftermarket items or some R&D.

More than half the people who shit on FWD don't even have motorsports experience actually like they're professionals and know every handling difference.


Also they watched Initial D and have been deluded into thinking every car should be a RWD drift machine.

I had a front wheel drive car, with modern ABS and whatnot

Was nearly uncontrollable if you floored into a corner when wet (as an example)

Now I have a RWD car with no ABS, floor into a corner when wet, my wheels skid like fuck but I can still turn

Because it gives you more space in cabin, makes the car easier and cheaper to make and requires less engineering and work and means the car is safer, more practical, has an horsepower limit and can't do any of that dangerous oversteer if you open up the throttle too much.
Basically every single thing that makes the car boring and you a cuck for wanting it.

Honestly FWD cars can be insanely good but they're nowhere near as fun as RWD.

>inb4 forever fwd cucks defending their shitty life choices.

>can be fixed with aftermarket items or some R&D.
Yeah, but fixing an FWD would mean a new gearbox, car floor, rear suspension, diff and all that.
It's easier to buy a car with the right wheel drive.
FWD is like driving auto instead of manual
Nothing wrong with it but its just a shittier way to go around if you want fun.

Or you put some R&D effords in it and something like the civic type R comes out of it.

The only real issue with FWD is load transfer when accelerating at low speed or mid corner since that is when you loose grip on the fron axle.

>They're inferior high end.

What did he/she/hir/it mean by this?

lol, obviously you'd never seen the honda scene. FWD cars can handle well with mods, same with rwd.

>The only real issue with FWD is load transfer when accelerating at low speed or mid corner since that is when you loose grip on the fron axle.

Pretty much this.

I have always wondered why no manufacturer has tried to make a performance street car with a stagered setup with beefy wheels and wide track up front, narrow in the back and have the engine behind the front axle. Its always one or the other.

>performance street car with a stagered setup with beefy wheels and wide track up front, narrow in the back
Porsche did the exact opposite:
>narrow front wheels
>fat rear wheels
>rear engine

But big fat tires alone don´t cancel out load transfer, a 70/30 weight distribution, front tires double as wide as rear tires and a verry low center of gravity, stiff rear sway bar and a LSD could cancel most of it out, but explain a custumer why he has 310 mm front and 155 mm rear tires...

>inb4 muh 50/50 weight distribution
That is only good for simmilar siezed tires.

The ticks on the board at the sharp corner that the local farmer puts up in winter don't refer to FWD cars that have spun off

I've personally seen 3 beemers in the hedge at the side. Could it be because kids who drive German cars can't drive? Is it because RWD cars are trash in winter? I suspect it's a bit of both

Pretty sure some performance tuned Civics have a staggered setup even though they have a very good weight distribution.

Correctamundo, tire wear is fair to add in there. To be fair the FWD the pros list would include lower cost and fuel economy, there's probably more.

>FWD is like driving auto instead of manual
You're retarded. You can still do handbrake doriftos in a FWD if it's manual, can't do that in an auto (unless you're going fast in which case you shouldn't be pulling the fucking hardbrake)
I think many people will agree that manual over auto is more important that RWD over FWD. I'd honestly rather drive a manual Corolla than an MX-5 auto.

Bmws in ditches and wrapped around trees are a pretty common sight,but then again so are Scoobies and those have meme wheel drive.

At least not infinite dorifotu. Except for just pulling the e-brake if you know how to play with the weight transfer you can go very well into oversteering with a fwd car. You just can't keep it oversteering for long. On a completely dry street this barely works however, at least a little moisture is needed.

A lot comes down to the driver in the end.

give er the ol scandinavian flick

>ABS
>Influence the throttle

Unless you're confusing the throttle with the brake, it makes no difference. You mean perhaps traction control, but that is only mandatory in RWD cars precisely because of what happens when retards try to drive in a straight line (and proof your a bus rider):

youtube.com/watch?v=3VwgvIqXg3A

...

Only applies to snow shit holes.


Literally everywhere else RWD is king

For various reasons I ended up with an auto miata.

Your wrong, FWD cars even when manual fucken are not better than auto/RWD

If I had to rank them

1.RWD/Manual

2.RWD/Auto(as long as auto tranny is a good one)

3.AWD/Manual

4.AWD/auto

5.FWD/manual


Front wheel drive cars suck, have owned and driven several. Then got me RWD cars and its night and Day difference

>Auto Miata

Lol you're a bitch and that faggy little list you made to make yourself feel better won't change a damn thing

No sik burnouts. Fwd is great and doesn't deserve a bad rep

no.
Fun:
RWD/manual
AWD/manual
FWD/manual
and same for performance
Performance
AWD manual
RWD manual
AWD auto
FWD manual
RWD auto
AWD auto
FWD auto

Auto miata aint bad. Have other cars as well, made list to outline best option for set ups

RWD/Manual is the best choice and FWD is one of the worst options. Kind of hard to argue that FWD is better than AWD or RWD but keep deluding your self

Manual RWD is better for performance tho.

>snow
>rain
>gravel

Pick all three

You listed AWD auto twice, nigga

RWD in the snow isnt even bad, with snowtires its the same fuckign shit as FWD. Just have to fight off the urge to punch it at a stoplight/corner.

Thats like saying RWD is dangerous because some retard in a viper with worn out stock tires in the cold rain pinned it in a corner and wraped himself around a tree. You just gotta finesse it a little bit and you'll have 0 problems.

it cuts down on the potential for 'dynamic' handling, especially for the inexperienced.

I fell for the rwd meme one time, never again lol.

nothing, it's just that if you want to talk about actual performance you can't talk about FWD.
RWD is hands down the best platform for everything, be it cornering, accelerating, having fun doing cheeky skids, ride comfort and general driving feel.
FWD is ok if you just want to get from A to B or if you want to rally on anything but asphalt, and even then AWD is vastly superior.
I've driven all three, no matter how good a FWD car is it will never be as good as an equivallent RWD car when it comes to cornering. I'm sorry for anyone out there who doubts this but it is unfortunately true.
Then you have people who put 300+ hp in a FWD car and think they have a sports car or a performance car. they don't. it's also a shame when they say BUT MUH FiST CAN BTFO YOUR BMW IN A STRAIGHT LINE.
it will NEVER HAPPEN. given equivallent FWD and RWD cars the RWD one will shit all over the FWD one every single time.
there's also regular folk who get their buttcheeks clenched at the mere thought of driving a RWD car because they flinch at every single instance when the car ever so slightly loses traction, and in this case, a FWD car is more predictable and controllable for the average driver.
so
tl;dr if you like/care about driving get RWD or optionally AWD, if you don't give a shit about driving take the bus or get a FWD car.

It's just like the automatic arguments from years ago and still today. Yes in the 90's you lost power in an AT, not so much or opposite now.

> no matter how good a FWD car is it will never be as good as an equivallent RWD car

Yeah, because its better. You need a way more powerful rwd car just to compensate for the drivetrain losses and pigfat..

you're asking the front tires to do 90% of the work. They have to power the car, they have to turn, and they have to brake.

at least in a RWD car, the rears power the car. leaving the fronts to just turn and stop.

At low power this is correct, but with more power load transfer is more important than drivetrain losses.

MR/RR is the best at all levels of power.

i am not sure. what if the FWD car has struts and the RWD has wishbones, which is kinda common?
the RWD will probably handle better because its doest have struts.

Solution: make the front tires extra meaty

>MR/RR is the best at all levels of crashing and burning.

Just because a car has struts does not mean it handles bad, Porsche 911 and Honda Civic TypeR are known for their handling, but both feature struts at front.

Only if you can´t deal with it and don´t have ESP.
It is actualy pretty common in small econoboxes like the Smart ForTwo and Twingo.

>load transfer benefits like FR
>efficiency like FF
>simplicity like FF
>chaep like FF

well the old 911 didnt have struts, it had torsion bars
and some civics had double wishbone

but 911's front end is so light it wouldn't help as much

you have to admit, struts are a very common characteristic of fwd cars, and a great many rwd have wishbones

Nothing, people just don't know how to drive FWD cars.

>torque steer
Don't get a shitty car.

>understeer
Learn how to fucking drive.
You don't WOT when you're turning full lock into a downhill hairpin in a FWD.

>weight distribution
Makes the tail easier to kick out when you want to oversteer.

didnt that toyota van have it? the previa?
wasnt it supercharged?

figging spring collar always tying to eat my front tires
rear shocks getting raped by tires
all because wrong offset
e30 tho

>snow shit holes
If you don't live where it snows you have dark skin

e30 was known for its mediocre rear suspension.
so were many bmws. hardly a good example.

>struts are a very common characteristic of fwd cars
Indeed, but that does not mean they are iherently bad.
They are only bad since most cheapshit econoboxes are FWD and not focused on track use, therefore many strut based front suspensions suck.
They can be just as good as doubble whishbones for the same price.

physics
may as well spring for rear engine front wheel drive at this point

I've driven many cars over my life. In most applications and most conditions, you will never notice a difference.

I wish some manufacturer would make a purpose built fwd performance car that isn`t just a souped up hatch and is able to btfo other cars in it class. The rwdfag tears would be so delicious.

pic unrelated, unfortunately.

but I was talking about the front suspension
rear is semi trailing arm

>I wish someone would do the impossible

Your pic is very appropriate

>90's Elan

>purpose built fwd performance car
FWD do pretty well in ralley
The main issue is still load transfer under acceleration, the lower the power and center of gravity, the lower the problem.
A benefit of FF Layout is that you can build a larger rear diffusor due to the lack of a rear differential, wich is the most efficient way to create downfoce.
In a low powered class that difference in cornering speed can counter the load transfer issue.

Wouldn`t some kind of active suspension minimize the effects of load transfer?

Only realy for fractions of a second.
A small reduction with negative body roll could be archived permanently, but that is close to nothing since there is not much forward/rearward boday roll anyway.

>competed with the miata
>worse because FWD
classic elan is sex

>finesse
Too bad the average driver barely has any.

Incorrect.

Nothing. FWD is fine and in some scenarios it can outperform RWD. But this board is filled with Itsuki-tier benchracers that believe RWD is always superior and the only reason why manufacturers make FWD is just to jew people out. The same argument is used with automatic gearboxes.

and GTI is faster than STI in Nürburgring Ring

GTI: 7:47.19
STI: 7:55.00

nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

WOW LE BURGERKING TIMES xD xDDD
DIS MUST MEAN FWD IS BETTERER RITE GUISE!?!?!?
FWD FTW AMIRITE LOOOOOOOOL

I love my old mk2 16v golf.

Not a lot of power but damn is it fun in the corners.

Just keep the rears out of the gravel and you'll be right.

there's nothing fun about a FWD car in the corners... what the fuck are you on about?

Subaru WRX STI Type RA NBR Special Record Nurburgring Lap time 6:57:5 (the fastest 4 door car on Nurburgring)

Because it's true?

Ok itsuki.

>tfw my FWD have active stability that prevents understeer to a degree that you'd expect it's some new high tech expensive luxury car.
>It's just a SAAB
Feels good having a car that was made with people with good intentions.

>your opinion is wrong because I have opinions that object

physics object my dude

>high tech expensive luxury car
>SAAB

user, Saabs WERE luxury cars.

>my opinion on what is fun is based on physics

Hardly its a fucking opinion you dumb fuck

listen here cunt:
based on physics, a RWD is more capable around corners, ergo a FWD OBJECTIVELY cannot compete with it in that field.
based on this I can state that, personal bullshit and feels aside, that user is wrong and RWD is better and thus MORE FUN around corners.
you gonna cry about it some more or man up and admit to FWD being the lesser choice when it comes to tackling corners?

>fun
>opinion

Pick both

>objectively more fun

How does one quantify "fun"? What unit can it be measured in?

There is little to no difference between FWD and RWD if you aren't driving like a child.

Fun per cup holder

how?
let's see
FWD
>holy shit understeer for days, if I accelerate a milimeter more I'm gonna get raped by that guardrail
RWD
>holy shit oversteer for days, if I accelerate a milimeter more I might pull off a cheeky skid. either that or I'll spin out and look like a twat

I don't know mate, to me, at least, oversteer is more enjoyable than understeer. I've driven all three layouts, RWD is by far the most fun and the most performing in a corner.
the most you can do with FWD is flick it or trail brake it and it still doesn't even come close to the feel a RWD car gives you in a corner.

That didn't answer the question

>WERE
I know. :(
That's why I put
>you'd expect it's some NEW high tech expensive luxury car.
Well GM stole some of the tech and hopefully make us of it to make cars safer, right? Right?

You don't know fuck all about cars if you think fwd can't oversteer and rqd can't understeer

The fact you think you can make sweeping generalizations about this topic proves you have no experience suspension tuning or anything. Which pretty much just makes you a bench racer whose done nothing but play video games

you are absolutely retarded lad
where did I say you can't make fwd oversteer ? or rwd understeer?
I'm making sweeping generalizations so your stupid ass can follow what I'm saying, but you still seem to be having trouble with it.
you can't prove me wrong, and you're not even attempting to. know what that means? it means you're a dumb faggot trying to act cool on a chinese cartoon forum.
I could tell you that I can outdrive you any day of the week no matter the drivetrain layout, but seeing as how I can't prove it short of onboard footage that I don't have at the moment, we can just leave it at assumptions.
stay mad

Nice reply itsuki.

>Manual RWD is better for performance tho.

Why do you say this? If performance = better lap times then wouldn't it go to AWD for quicker cornering? Aren't AWD better at putting their power down because of more driven tire surface area?

Genuinely asking.